MilkChocolateOne
Well-Known Member
It's okay. I'm sure he's got plenty of takers.
true
It's okay. I'm sure he's got plenty of takers.
That's the problem with class designations. They can be and usually are based on several factors. But you absolutely can be middle class with a negative wealth.
Just an aside, but black researchers have been saying for years that it's pointless to use the same standards for white folks and black folks when it comes to class status because historically, status in our community wasn't necessarily tied to wages (which makes sense given the wage gap and lack of opportunities for employment). My great grandfather was a Pullman Porter, which was considered the first middle class job available to AAs. To whites, that would have been considered a servant position. So it's tricky. And I find any researcher who doesn't acknowledge this to be intellectually dishonest.
Middle class is determined by income, profession, education and home ownership. The average doctor has a negative net worth for years after medical school but most people would consider doctors to be at least middle class because of income, education and profession. Middle class is a socio-economic group, not one that is solely determined by networth.I’m not arguing if black ppl should be judge by the same standards, but surly having negative wealth excludes anyone from the middle class.
I’m not arguing if black ppl should be judge by the same standards, but surly having negative wealth excludes anyone from the middle class.
Children are very easy to get.So what happens if you're a single successful black woman but you want children?
In the year 2000, close to half (48%) of all Black middle-class households (ages 25-44) were comprised of married couples with children. That percent, though, was way down from 65% in 1980 and 58% in 1990.
Overall, across all social classes, there are fewer Black households comprised of never-married people living alone than married-with-children households. But among those who have made it into the middle class and beyond, the percentage of SALAs (single and living alone) has increased over time. In 1980, 5.8% of all Black middle-class households were comprised of lifelong single people living alone. By 1990, that had increased to 9.1%. By 2000, it was all the way up to 14.3%. That means that single people living alone accounted for about 1 out of every 7 middle-class Black households in the year 2000.
Children are very easy to get.
You asked what happens if you're a single successful woman who wants children and the answer is there are men everywhere that will give those women all the children they want free of charge. Will you still be part of the middle class? The answer depends on how successful you are.I don't understand.
The bolded is 90% of the battle.It's a route but not the only route. Marrying the right person is key as well as living within a reasonable budget and looking into other streams of income e.g. interest from investment, business ownership, rental etc.
I wouldn't advocate living unmarried and alone by choice unless you're an extreme introvert and loner.
Even with a college degree the average woman is going to have a regular degular middle class job and not marry rich. Also most people are going to date at least a year before making wedding plans so you gotta factor in "kissing some frogs time". The optimal time to multi-task finding a husband with building a career is right out of undergrad or between 21-27.Another thing is that I would advise women to find career & financial success before marriage and children. It's easier and you're more flexible with your time and other resources. Unless you're marrying rich rich then both of you will have to make a substantial contribution to reach upper middle class if that's your desire.
Even with a college degree the average woman is going to have a regular degular middle class job and not marry rich. Also most people are going to date at least a year before making wedding plans so you gotta factor in "kissing some frogs time". The optimal time to multi-task finding a husband with building a career is right out of undergrad or between 21-27.
Yeah, careers are taking longer to establish. It's why we're not having children at the replacement rate as a nation overall. When I was in college I envisioned getting married young, having a career and three children and spacing them out like my parents did. Nope. Not happening.I feel most aren't settled into their careers and finances until late 30s/early 40s. By then, it may be too late to have kids if that is what you want. So you kind have to find someone on track to career success in your late 20s/early 30s, if you want to marry and have kid(s).
A lot of my friends want to be married with 4+ kids. And I'm like how sway...you are late 20s/early 30s with no ring in sight, still figuring out your career/in school, and have lots of debt. If they are in relationships, their boyfriends are in similar situations.
If you wanted all Dem kids, you should have started earlier. Having a lot of kids late in the game or in general doesn't seem like a smart financial move to me.
So what happens if you're a single successful black woman but you want children?
I'm assuming the living alone variable refers to single non-parents because the strongest predictor of poverty for single women is motherhood.
This is interesting, though. I mentioned the other day that this age group in particular is placing less value on marriage their previous generations. Seems like it's actually beneficial for black folks.
So what happens if you're a single successful black woman but you want children?
The optimal time to multi-task finding a husband with building a career is right out of undergrad or between 21-27.
Not necessarily. If the average woman wants to achieve the goal stated in the OP, then she'll have to prioritize. Married women and women who are mothers have added responsibility than those who are not. So these formative years when you're supposed to taking risky career moves etc. will be replaced with taking a "safe" route to provide stability for your family. There are a host of single and available older men who too sacrificed a social life in their formative years in order to build their career and wealth. I married one
How much younger than your husband are you?
Same age born in the same year. We are 34. When I thought I was doing something in life (career wise) he was doing it both career and investment wise.
Now, everyone wants different things. We both grew up in solid middle class households and we both are desirous of breaking out of that social class.
We are "comfortable" financially wise. I wouldn't advocate for a woman 40+ still holding out to make it to the black middle class if she wants to have children. It isn't impossible, but one has to be realistic. However, when I look at my peers within my various work environments, most who are my age, who got married and settled down in their 20s, have not made it to middle management. However, my first boss for example, was at a senior management level in her late 50s, with one child in college and one in high school. Holding out a bit and taking those risks do pay off. Women who I see in top managerial roles before 40, often do not have children or are unmarried.
How long from meeting your husband and your wedding day? Because what I'm getting at is that the average woman doesn't wake up one day say, I'm going to date for marriage and find herself walking down the aisle, 6-months to a year later. Some women get lucky and the first dude she meets is the one and ready. Most women will date multiple men before they find the right fit and he's on the same page as her. Which is why it makes sense to get the ball rolling as early as possible.Same age born in the same year. We are 34. When I thought I was doing something in life (career wise) he was doing it both career and investment wise.
How long from meeting your husband and your wedding day? Because what I'm getting at is that the average woman doesn't wake up one day say, I'm going to date for marriage and find herself walking down the aisle, 6-months to a year later. Some women get lucky and the first dude she meets is the one and ready. Most women will date multiple men before they find the right fit and he's on the same page as her. Which is why it makes sense to get the ball rolling as early as possible.
Same age born in the same year. We are 34. When I thought I was doing something in life (career wise) he was doing it both career and investment wise.
Now, everyone wants different things. We both grew up in solid middle class households and we both are desirous of breaking out of that social class.
We are "comfortable" financially wise. I wouldn't advocate for a woman 40+ still holding out to make it to the black middle class if she wants to have children. It isn't impossible, but one has to be realistic. However, when I look at my peers within my various work environments, most who are my age, who got married and settled down in their 20s, have not made it to middle management. However, my first boss for example, was at a senior management level in her late 50s, with one child in college and one in high school. Holding out a bit and taking those risks do pay off. Women who I see in top managerial roles before 40, often do not have children or are unmarried.
I thought you were in your 40s and he is in his 50s talking about older men.
34 is only old to a 20 year old.
Now 48+ is older to me.
Real talk: I paid my debt off faster and my credit score hit the 800s shortly after we got married and before our careers took off.I can see this, but I've also said I could save more and pay down debt faster if I lived with someone else (in other words, shacked up or got married) because I could saving on housing expenses. But of course that would only work if I lived with a man who could pay the bills, and that's the only way I'm living with a man anyway
And for those who really want to get married...they need to be aware of that. I feel some kind of way about people who tell you to do one thing, while doing something else or benefitting from the status quo. Like when they told people they don't need to shower regularly or floss with all kinds of research saying doing so is a waste of time. I was like, nah son....floss daily and do it right. Shower daily...get clean. Emphasis on...do it right....how it works for you. Like what just posted up thread.Marriage to the wrong man or having children with the wrong man is bad for your financial situation so this doesn’t surprise me. Still black women need more options for socio-economic upward mobility than staying single for life. That just sounds depressing. Marrying your equal or marrying up usually leads to a higher net worth.
Also I read the summary of the report that they linked to and it is terrible.
https://familystoryproject.org/wp-c...-Fundamentalism_Exec-Summary_Family-Story.pdf
The Case Against Marriage Fundamentalism: Embracing Family Justice for All documents how conservatives, with help from centrists and liberals, have promoted the supremacy of the married family to the detriment of historically marginalized people and progressive policy goals.
Even though the have a child out of wedlock thing is a proven failure they are still trying convince black women that they should do so. The authors are a white male lawyer, a white woman feminist and a black man. No black women. They are probably all comfortably married while encouraging black women to struggle.
These well educated white people are trying to use black women to further their “progressive policy goals” while enjoying an upper middle class life.
Yep!The two biggest ways to have a lower socioeconomic status are to 1) have kids OOW 2) get divorced.
Facts.
We all know or some of you are black single moms living your best life but you are the exceptions. Single black men who pay child support are broke. Supporting two households versus one in divorce is expensive...or for the higher earner divorce leads to child support and alimony.
Live your best life. And if it’s not on paper, it didn’t happen. Get your legal life right.