Prominent Pastor Sporting A Diamond Stud Earring

[chellero]

I can answer all of your questions with one answer. There is a time and a place for everything. Nothing you mentioned is wrong in and of itself. However, some actions may be inappropriate in certain settings. A man wouldn't wear an earring to a job interview anymore than a woman would wear a pair of jeans. Is it wrong to wear jeans? No. But an interview is not the setting for that.
Is it wrong for a Christian to have a beer? No. But maybe drinking 1 beer in front of a recovering alcoholic wouldn't be a good idea. As for whether a Christian should share the gospel of Jesus with an unbeliever over a beer, I don't see a problem. I think the message would be clouded or tainted if the Christian was throwing back the beers like it was water. However, ONE beer in a casual setting w/ a friend who is NOT a believer (and does NOT have a problem with alcohol) would not taint the message of Christ because the Biblical warning is against drunkeness, not overall drinking. I don't know a single person who thinks someone is getting DRUNK if they only have one drink. In fact, I might say it would make Christ seem more real and his human nature if a Christian shared a beer with them when talking about our Messiah. Actually, if you look at Matthew 9:10-13 Jesus teaches the Pharisees as he's eating and drinking (I'm talking about the dinner w/ Matthew, tax collectors, his disciples and sinners). Notice they don't have an issue with Jesus because he's drinking, but because he's in the company of sinful people. Jesus shared wine with Matthew (the most vile type of sinner in Israel: a tax collector), but that did not stop Matthew from receiving the gospel and following Jesus.
I'm going to put this out there. I honestly think that many of the limitations non-believers put on Christians are self-imposed by Christians themselves. What I mean is this, it's our own fault that an unbeliever may look at us negatively if we have ONE drink in their presence because some of us have been so VOCAL about alcohol being evil, in and of itself, when the Bible NEVER gives such a message. Like I said before Jesus drank wine (and yes it was alcoholic wine). Even if the water was too dirty to drink, if alcohol was forbidden he would've abstained completely and drank something else. Christians have added fence laws to God's word, and since unbelievers don't know God's word they take everything every Christian says at face value as being part of the faith whether it is or is not. I personally will NOT be bound by expectations of man when God does not have those expectations himself.

ITA! This is a good (and sensible) post.

 

[Supergirl]

But who makes earring wearing in men popular? Thugs. Now if you want to be associated with thugs then you have succeeded. But if you want to witness to a thug don't dress like them and behave like them telling them they need a change in their lives.

You wear the uniform of your army.

association & uniform--2 terms I've used in this thread. An individual will automatically be associated with the uniform he or she wears.

 

[Ms.Honey]

association & uniform--2 terms I've used in this thread. An individual will automatically be associated with the uniform he or she wears.

Yep. They world judges by the outward appearance and if we're to witness to them we must be aware of ours.

 

[chellero]

I haven't read all of the post but I did skim throught some of them.

Jesus turned water into wine so there's nothing wrong with drinking in general. Protestant Christians in America don't drink stemming from Prohibition. For us to drink now would make us poor witness because folks expect us not to. Christians in other countries drink, no biggie there, not a poor witness. It will always be a poor witness for American Christians to drink.

I personally would not listen to a minister/pastor who had body piercings, other than earrings on a woman, or tattoes. We are to be modest for our time and tats and peircings aren't modest. It's too wordly, stop conforming to the world and conform to Christ.

Well assuming that the pastor wasn't saved his whole life (and most weren't) then it's entirely possible that he could have a tattoo as tattoos are permanent. I can't justify refusing to listen to the word of God because God chose to use someone with a tattoo. And I completely disagree with the bolded. I think that it is poor witness to pretend that the Bible says something that it does not.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Well assuming that the pastor wasn't saved his whole life (and most weren't) then it's entirely possible that he could have a tattoo as tattoos are permanent. I can't justify refusing to listen to the word of God because God chose to use someone with a tattoo. And I completely disagree with the bolded. I think that it is poor witness to pretend that the Bible says something that it does not.

Tattoes can be removed. Old tats I have no problem with, getting new tats, I wouldn't listen to you.

The bibles says to not be a stumbling block to others and Christians drinking is a big stumbling block for unsaved folks. They are the ones who matter.

I personally wouldn't want to recieve counseling from someone with alcohol on their breath. I want you sober. I shouldn't have to wonder how many drinks you've had before our meeting

 

[cheetarah1980]

But who makes earring wearing in men popular? Thugs. Now if you want to be associated with thugs then you have succeeded. But if you want to witness to a thug don't dress like them and behave like them telling them they need a change in their lives.

You wear the uniform of your army.

Earrings on men were popular long before thugs got a hold of them. Should Christians not ride Harley's because Hell's Angels do too?

 

[Ms.Honey]

Earrings on men were popular long before thugs got a hold of them. Should Christians not ride Harley's because Hell's Angels do too?

They were made popular by thugs who wore them first is irrelevant. Ride the Harley, just don't wear a skull and crossbones. Hells Angels did not make bike riding popular.

 

[cheetarah1980]

So what is the Christian uniform? Could you pick out a Christian just walking down the street? Let me know so I can pick up my fit.

As for drinking being a stumbling block, it all depends on who you're around. If I were a light drinker (which I'm not cause I absolutely hate the taste of alcohol and won't touch it), I probably wouldn't drink in front of a certain friend of mine who is a recovering alcoholic. It would cause her to stumble. I also wouldn't drink in front of certain unsaved friends of mine who while they are not alcoholics do have a tendency to engage in drunkeness on occassion. However, if I were with an unsaved friend who enjoyed an ocassional glass of red wine every now and then, me joining her in that glass would NOT be causing her to stumble as alcohol is NOT an issue for her. Once again, it all depends on the setting and the company I am keeping.

@foxy - The suit was a bright white and the material had some shine to it, so it was kind of blinding. When I think of a nice suit, I think of either black or gray (maybe navy) with impeccable tailoring. White suits or colored suits (blue, red, green) are the epitome of tacky in my opinion. Would I say that they're inappropriate? No. It's just that whenever I see one I think of those zoot suits that Denzel and Spike Lee wore in Malcolm X when they were living the gangster lifestyle. It's just gives off a slimy vibe in my opinion. But that's just my personal taste and association. Obviously you don't share my perspective. And that's been my point throughout this entire thread. Just because some perceive an earring as hood/gangster/tacky/juvenile/etc. does NOT mean that others do as well. So if it's a matter of personal dislike, we can't really call something inappropriate because context is key.

 

[cheetarah1980]

They were made popular by thugs who wore them first is irrelevant. Ride the Harley, just don't wear a skull and crossbones. Hells Angels did not make bike riding popular.

New Kids on the Block had earrings and they were the epitome of popular. Thugs indeed!

 

[Ms.Honey]

New Kids on the Block had earrings and they were the epitome of popular. Thugs indeed!

Unsaved and ungodly. Why copy them?

 

[chellero]

Drinking alcohol then as opposed to now: It was pretty much the only choice then. Drinking alcohol then was the equivalent to us having a something like a juice or water today. Drinking it now takes on a different meaning than it did then. Would Jesus have a beer today?

If an earring is inappropriate in certain settings, why is that? Why is it inappropriate in certain settings?

ETA: BTW Cheetarah, just want to add a personal note for you. Your posts, of the ones who don't see earrings on men of God as a big deal, have been the most insightful for me. I can tell that for you it is not a matter of wanting to justify certain actions, but that your thoughts on this topic are sincere ones.

Wine was not the equivalent of having juice or water back then. Wine was the equivalent of wine. People had water and fruit juice too. Jesus was criticized in the Bible for drinking.

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35But wisdom is proved right by all her children."


God doesn't change, so I doubt that Jesus would be OK with drinking back then and anti-alcohol now just because some people decided to make up some new rules like the ones God gave in the Bible weren't enough.

 

[chellero]

Unsaved and ungodly. Why copy them?

How do you know that they aren't saved? Their music sucked so it's possible that sold their souls to devil in exchange for their popularity, but I doubt it. I don't associate earrings with thugs or NKOTB. It's just jewelery to me.

 

[Ms.Honey]

So what is the Christian uniform? Could you pick out a Christian just walking down the street? Let me know so I can pick up my fit.

As for drinking being a stumbling block, it all depends on who you're around. If I were a light drinker (which I'm not cause I absolutely hate the taste of alcohol and won't touch it), I probably wouldn't drink in front of a certain friend of mine who is a recovering alcoholic. It would cause her to stumble. I also wouldn't drink in front of certain unsaved friends of mine who while they are not alcoholics do have a tendency to engage in drunkeness on occassion. However, if I were with an unsaved friend who enjoyed an ocassional glass of red wine every now and then, me joining her in that glass would NOT be causing her to stumble as alcohol is NOT an issue for her. Once again, it all depends on the setting and the company I am keeping.

@foxy - The suit was a bright white and the material had some shine to it, so it was kind of blinding. When I think of a nice suit, I think of either black or gray (maybe navy) with impeccable tailoring. White suits or colored suits (blue, red, green) are the epitome of tacky in my opinion. Would I say that they're inappropriate? No. It's just that whenever I see one I think of those zoot suits that Denzel and Spike Lee wore in Malcolm X when they were living the gangster lifestyle. It's just gives off a slimy vibe in my opinion. But that's just my personal taste and association. Obviously you don't share my perspective. And that's been my point throughout this entire thread. Just because some perceive an earring as hood/gangster/tacky/juvenile/etc. does NOT mean that others do as well. So if it's a matter of personal dislike, we can't really call something inappropriate because context is key.

Christian uniform? Not showing your boobs, not wearing tight clothes, not looking like a video ho for women. Men, not wearing your pants sagging, wearing clothes 2-3 times your size, no earrings. Dress decently. Is that hard to understand?

Drinking is a poor witness to unsaved folks in America. We witness to unsaved folks. If they think Christians shouldn't drink then what's the point of a Christian drinking. It's not a necessity of life. The unsaved think it's hypocritical for Christians to drink and tell them they shouldn't be drunk.

We are to be witness first. Our personal wants and desires come last. Why risk losing a soul because we have the right to drink, wear body piercings and tats?

 

[chellero]

Some Bible verses for those who still think that drinking is somehow prohibited in the Bible. If you still think that wine was just grape juice then please read the bolded.


Deut 14:26 implies that it is a good thing to drink wine and strong drink to the Lord: “And you may spend the money for whatever your heart desires, for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household” (NASB).

Psalm 4:7 compares joy in the Lord to the abundance of wine; Psalm 104:14-15 credits God as the creator of wine that “makes a man’s heart glad” (cf. also Hos 2:8); honoring the Lord with one’s wealth is rewarded with the blessings of abundant stores of wine (Prov 3:10); love is compared to wine repeatedly in the Song of Songs, as though good wine were similarly sweet (1:2, 4; 4:10; 7:9).

The Lord prepares a banquet with “well-aged wines... and fine, well-aged wines” for his people (Isa 25:6) [obviously this cannot be grape juice, for aging does nothing but ferment it!].

 

[chellero]

Christian uniform? Not showing your boobs, not wearing tight clothes, not looking like a video ho for women. Men, not wearing your pants sagging, wearing clothes 2-3 times your size, no earrings. Dress decently. Is that hard to understand?

Drinking is a poor witness to unsaved folks in America. We witness to unsaved folks. If they think Christians shouldn't drink then what's the point of a Christian drinking. It's not a necessity of life. The unsaved think it's hypocritical for Christians to drink and tell them they shouldn't be drunk.

We are to be witness first. Our personal wants and desires come last. Why risk losing a soul because we have the right to drink, wear body piercings and tats?

Jesus himself was criticized for drinking. He didn't stop. Many people also expect Christians to be uptight, judgmental, buttholes who don't have or approve of fun or sex and are prudes even within marriage. I don't think that I want to embody America's expectations of a Christian.

 

[PaperClip]

Jesus himself was criticized for drinking. He didn't stop. Many people also expect Christians to be uptight, judgmental, buttholes who don't have or approve of fun or sex and are prudes even within marriage. I don't think that I want to embody America's expectations of a Christian.

Scripture for that?

 

[Ms.Honey]

Jesus himself was criticized for drinking. He didn't stop. Many people also expect Christians to be uptight, judgmental, buttholes who don't have or approve of fun or sex and are prudes even within marriage. I don't think that I want to embody America's expectations of a Christian.

Then don't.

 

[chellero]

Wine was not the equivalent of having juice or water back then. Wine was the equivalent of wine. People had water and fruit juice too. Jesus was criticized in the Bible for drinking.

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35But wisdom is proved right by all her children."


God doesn't change, so I doubt that Jesus would be OK with drinking back then and anti-alcohol now just because some people decided to make up some new rules like the ones God gave in the Bible weren't enough.

Scripture for that?

Here you go.

 

[cheetarah1980]

Unsaved and ungodly. Why copy them?

No one is saying he's copying them. You said that earrings were made popular by thugs. I was simply pointing out that earrings were made popular by a variety of different people across all walks of life, including Christians.
And do you know the New Kids, personally. How do you know that they aren't saved and aren't Godly? I make no assumption about their walk because I do NOT know them.

 

[cheetarah1980]

Christian uniform? Not showing your boobs, not wearing tight clothes, not looking like a video ho for women. Men, not wearing your pants sagging, wearing clothes 2-3 times your size, no earrings. Dress decently. Is that hard to understand?

Drinking is a poor witness to unsaved folks in America. We witness to unsaved folks. If they think Christians shouldn't drink then what's the point of a Christian drinking. It's not a necessity of life. The unsaved think it's hypocritical for Christians to drink and tell them they shouldn't be drunk.

We are to be witness first. Our personal wants and desires come last. Why risk losing a soul because we have the right to drink, wear body piercings and tats?

Actually, tats are prohibted in scripture. And NOT all unsaved folks think that Christians shouldn't drink at all. Do you live your life to please ALL people. Last time I checked you can please all of the people some of the time, and you can please some of the people all the time, but you can NEVER please all the people all the time. The unsaved look at a drunk Christian as a hypocrite. They look at a Christian who has a drink once in a while as a normal person. Take a poll of unsaved people. You'd be surprised by what they really expect.

 

[Ms.Honey]

No one is saying he's copying them. You said that earrings were made popular by thugs. I was simply pointing out that earrings were made popular by a variety of different people across all walks of life, including Christians.
And do you know the New Kids, personally. How do you know that they aren't saved and aren't Godly? I make no assumption about their walk because I do NOT know them.

What about their music would you consider it Christ-like. I don't need to know anyone personally to know they don't know Him. Your walk speaks for you.

It was made popular by secular artists. That is why most men wear them, that's what it's associated with. Now if they want to wear them fine. If it's against His will He will eventually make it known. Some will continue to do as they please, whatever.

 

[cheetarah1980]

What about their music would you consider it Christ-like. I don't need to know anyone personally to know they don't know Him. Your walk speaks for you.

It was made popular by secular artists. That is why most men wear them, that's what it's associated with. Now if they want to wear them fine. If it's against His will He will eventually make it known. Some will continue to do as they please, whatever.

Not all things secular are evil or bad. God made the world and said it was good! Not everything that doesn't directly say Jesus is sinful! New Kids on the Block sang "Please Don't Go Girl," a song about their girlfriend breaking up with them and begging her to stay. They sang "Step by Step," a song about the steps they were going to take to make a certain girl like them. They sang "The Right Stuff," a song about how much they like their new girlfriends. Universal HUMAN themes that are NOT exclusive to Christians or unbelievers. Would you say that Stevie Wonder's "Ribbon in the Sky" is an evil song just because it's sung by a secular artist. Am I to assume the new movie Wall-E is not fit for Christian viewing because it's secular and not all about Jesus?

 

[Ms.Honey]

Actually, tats are prohibted in scripture. And NOT all unsaved folks think that Christians shouldn't drink at all. Do you live your life to please ALL people. Last time I checked you can please all of the people some of the time, and you can please some of the people all the time, but you can NEVER please all the people all the time. The unsaved look at a drunk Christian as a hypocrite. They look at a Christian who has a drink once in a while as a normal person. Take a poll of unsaved people. You'd be surprised by what they really expect.

Whatever. People drink because they want to along with a whole lot of other things that are poor witnesses. It is common knowledge that it's a poor witness for Christians to drink, it ain't gonna ever change. I don't have a problem with Christians in other countries drinking. Here in America it's a poor witness so I don't drink. I rather be a witness and continue to win souls to Christ. It's not something that I trip off of. God told me not to drink for that reason.

My suggestion is for folks to pray and ask the Lord if it's ok for them to drink. This seems to be something that's feared in this forum.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Not all things secular are evil or bad. God made the world and said it was good! Not everything that doesn't directly say Jesus is sinful! New Kids on the Block sang "Please Don't Go Girl," a song about their girlfriend breaking up with them and begging her to stay. They sang "Step by Step," a song about the steps they were going to take to make a certain girl like them. They sang "The Right Stuff," a song about how much they like their new girlfriends. Universal HUMAN themes that are NOT exclusive to Christians or unbelievers. Would you say that Stevie Wonder's "Ribbon in the Sky" is an evil song just because it's sung by a secular artist. Am I to assume the new movie Wall-E is not fit for Christian viewing because it's secular and not all about Jesus?

Are you serious?

 

[cheetarah1980]

I'm done. We're just going to agree to disagree. God is teaching me everyday that the true meaning of submission is giving up the right to be right. No amount of back and forth is going to convince the other and the only thing it's doing right now is annoying me. I don't need or want to have any ill feelings toward sisters in Christ. So I bow out.

 

[Ms.Honey]

It's so easy to ask God directly. If He say to do it then do it if He says don't then don't. Simple.

 

[lovedone_24]

People don't go to church because they don't want to bottom line. Paul said I am all things to all people. If eating meat is a stumbling block then don't eat meat. It's not an add-on it's scriptural.

It's not that simple. Just as people do not seek education (even when it is provided them) because of outside factors, such as the same with spiritual health. There is a reason why even the prostetute felt comfortable at the feet of Jesus yet the same sentiment cannot be felt from mere church memebers.

 

[PaperClip]

Here you go.

Ok, cool. Now let's consider this in context.

It was the PHARISEES who criticized Jesus. They criticized Jesus for A LOT of things. Why? Because of their adherence to the law.... Yes, the followed the law to the letter... with no HEART.

Jesus came to fulfill the law... Jesus brought His HEART to the law. In other words, His words aligned with His actions. He demonstrated the spirit of the law through His actions.

Notice a couple of verses before verse 34, where it talks about how Jesus performed miracles, healing people that were blind and lame. Interesting how the Pharisees didn't criticize that, but they focused on Jesus' eating and drinking...based on what an EARTHLY man did....

That's straight FOOLISHNESS! Then and now....

For the record, it is not a sin to consume alcohol. Scripture gives direction for consumption, though: 1) is to drink it when you are sick and 2) not to drink it in excess. That doesn't sound like it gives the ok to drink it RECREATIONALLY....

Ephesians 5:18: "18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.

1 Timothy 5:23: 23 No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.

I think it's kind of crazy how this thread about a (grown) male pastor in an earring has flipped to issues around the saints and alcohol consumption. But that is a trick of the enemy: to deceive and misrepresent and take off on a tangent....

The church tradition against ANY alcohol consumption has to do with seeming LACK OF CONTROL and DISCIPLINE....something that the world suffers from. We are all in this flesh and sometimes it is better to abstain altogether so that our "taste", if you will doesn't get tempted.

Ultimately, it is about our lives being a witness to others. And we must be careful about not misleading others and even weaker brothers and sisters, even. The Bible talks about blood being on the hands of those who mislead others.

 

[Ms.Honey]

It's not that simple. Just as people do not seek education (even when it is provided them) because of outside factors, such as the same with spiritual health. There is a reason why even the prostetute felt comfortable at the feet of Jesus yet the same sentiment cannot be felt from mere church memebers.

If you want to go to church you go to church. No one can stop me from going. Everybody at my church aren't loving, friendly people. I just avoid them as much as possible and keep moving. While I agree that some folks have reason for not going, forbidding alcohol aside for medicinal reasons is not a valid one.

 

[lovedone_24]

If you want to go to church you go to church. No one can stop me from going. Everybody at my church aren't loving, friendly people. I just avoid them as much as possible and keep moving. While I agree that some folks have reason for not going, forbidding alcohol aside for medicinal reasons is not a valid one.

That's fair. The alcohol issue is a dead one to me because like the poster above me said, we have to agree to disagree. On judgement day everyone has to answer for themselves. Let me clarify and say I was referring to these "addition commandments" in general of what is/is not appropriate based on society at this time and not the Word per se. I have seen young ministers dressed as goths, excited about Christ. And yes they had piercings, tattoos. When people are trying to get their lives right, nobody needs to hear a speech about the frivolous, which is why I brought up the fact that it is a turnoff. Church has a always been full of too many who are far too concerned with the length of a skirt than what the needs of the people are. But I do agree, sometimes you have to keep it moving...