Wine

Wine

Although not the normal drink of the day, intoxicating wines did exist in Bible times, and in every case they receive unfavorable reference. Deut. 32:23,24,33; Prov. 4:14-17; Hab. 2:5,15; Ps. 58:4; Hos. 7:5; Ps. 60:3; Isa. 5:22; 28:7,8; Jer. 25:15.

It is especially important for us to be always strictly temperate and sober in these last days because Satan is working with greatly intensified deceptiveness and wrath to confuse our senses:

Babylon [corrupt organized religion] "made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." Rev. 14:8; "The end of all things is at hand; be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." 2 Pet. 4:7; "be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." 1 Pet. 5:8; "Wherefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet. 1:13.

What is God's view of alcohol consumption? "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Prov. 20:1

How can we be sure that the wine Jesus used at the Passover (Lord's Supper) was non-alcoholic? It was a strict law of God that at the time of the Passover all leaven or fermented articles to be removed from the house. Fermentation is a sign of decay and death. The wine used at the Passover was distinctly a symbol of Christ's blood, shed to establish the new covenant. He will drink of the same kind of new wine with His redeemed in the Kingdom of heaven where decomposition and fermentation will never occur. See Ex. 12:15; Matt. 26:17,26-29; Rev. 21:4.

What is the effect of drinking alcoholic beverages? "Who has woe, who has sorrow, who has contentions, who has babbling, who has wounds without cause, who has redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine" "At last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder" (Prov. 23:29,30).

Why were kings prohibited the use of strong drink? "It is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink; lest they drink and forget the law and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted" (Prov. 31:4,5)

Why were priests not allowed to use intoxicating drink? "And the Lord spake unto Aaron, saying, Do not drink wine or strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, … that ye may put a difference between holy and unholy, and between clean and unclean" (Lev. 10:8-10, cf. Ezek. 44:21).

What two titles does God give to His redeemed people? "Kings and priests." See 1 Pet. 2:6,9; Rev. 1:5,6. True Christians are spiritual kings and priests, washed in the blood of Christ and enlisted in His service as royal ambassadors. They have perpetual access by His Spirit to the heavenly sanctuary. 2 Cor. 5:18-20; Heb. 10: 19-23.

How did Daniel respond to the temptation to drink wine at the king's court in Babylon? Dan. 1:8-20. He refused it, but drank water instead. In consequence he was blessed with superior health and mental ability.

What is one of the keys to success in being a victorious Christian? "Every man who strives for the mastery is temperate in all things" (1 Cor. 9:25).

What is the source of our power to be temperate? "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law" (Gal. 5:22,23). True temperance is defined as, "The moderate use of that which is beneficial and total abstinence from that which is harmful."

Will alcoholics who continue drinking have a favorable destiny? "Be not deceived: … drunkards… shall not inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 6:9,10, cf. 1 Cor. 5:11; Gal. 5:19-21..

What kind of wine is acceptable and wholesome? "The new wine found in the cluster, destroy it not, … for a blessing is in it." "The pure blood of the grape" (Isa. 65:8; Deut 32:14). It is medicinal, non-alcoholic. 1 Tim. 5:23.

What source of inspiration does God want for us instead of fermented wine? "Be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Holy Spirit" (Eph. 5:18, cf. Acts 2:1-18).

"Whether therefore you eat or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God" (1 Cor. 10:31).

Disobedience

Obeying God is in our best interest. It's in the Bible, Deuteronomy 30:15-16, TLB. "Look, today I have set before you life and death, depending on whether you obey or disobey. I have commanded you today to love the Lord your God and to follow His paths and to keep His laws, so that you will live and become a great nation, and so that the Lord your God will bless you and the land you are about to possess." Dueteronomy 10:12,13, NIV says, "And now, O Israel, what does the Lord your God ask of you but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways, to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to observe the Lord's commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?"

What do law, grace, and obedience have to do with each other? It's in the Bible, Romans 5:20, TLB. "The Ten Commandments were given so that all could see the extent of their failure to obey God's laws. But the more we see our sinfulness, the more we see God's abounding grace forgiving us."

Obedience can keep us from disease. It's in the Bible, Exodus 15:26, TLB. "If you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, and obey it, and do what is right, then I will not make you suffer the diseases I sent on the Egyptians, for I am the Lord who heals you."

Obedience is the key to a successful life. It's in the Bible, Joshua 1:8, TLB. "Constantly remind the people about these laws, and you yourself must think about them every day and every night so that you will be sure to obey all of them. For only then will you succeed."

We will be evaluated in terms of our obedience to God's commandments. It's in the Bible, Matthew 5:19, TLB. "And so if anyone breaks the least commandment, and teaches others to, he shall be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But those who teach God's laws and obey them shall be great in the Kingdom of Heaven."

Obedience is a result of loving God. It's in the Bible, John 14:15 and 23, TLB. "If you love Me, obey Me; …Because I will only reveal Myself to those who love Me and obey Me. The Father will love them too, and we will come to them and live with them."

The Holy Spirit will only be given to those who obey the Lord. It's in the Bible, Acts 5:32, NIV. "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

Jesus obeyed His Father, as an example of how we should obey Him. It's in the Bible, Hebrews 5:8-9, TLB. "And even though Jesus was God's Son, He had to learn from experience what it was like to obey, when obeying meant suffering. It was after He had proved himself perfect in this experience that Jesus became the Giver of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him."

God advises us to obey the laws of the land. It's in the Bible, Romans 13:1-2, TLB. "Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

Sometimes obedience to God and His law may require disobedience of earthly powers. It's in the Bible, Acts 5:29, NIV. "We must obey God rather than men!"

Children are to obey and honor their parents. It's in the Bible, Ephesians 6:1-3, TLB. "Children obey your parents; this is the right thing to do because God has placed them in authority over you. Honor your father and mother. This is the first of God's Ten Commandments that ends with a promise. And this is the promise: that if you honor your father and mother, yours will be a long life, full of blessing."

Very interesting topic and I don't believe that anyone would have any harsh objections while reading this.

I don't drink, but I know others who do and while I will not advocate or encourage it, I pray for them and let them bear their conscious with God.

The one thing that concerns me is that I do not want to be responsible for an accident that one may have or cause to occur, because I gave them something to drink from my home or an event that I was hosting. It's not worth a person's life or their soul. I want to protect them. :Rose:

We drink wine every Sunday, even my very underage kids (real wine in the eucharist). I drink stronger liquors from time to time, not very often. More like social drinking. Too much food is like too much alcohol - will hurt you. The admonition is to avoid getting drunk or to harm yourself or others. There's no need to pray for people who are in control of what they do (drinking) as though they sin against G-d. They don't. As far as the priests not being allowed to take wine or stronger drink, we have that "law" today in the church. The wine to be consumed is Jesus himself, transubstantiated in the eucharist. Avoid anything but water 1 hour before communion. No one should enter the church in a drunken state, period. That rule was a precursor, a glimpse into the future of the sacrifice. The wine at the wedding at Cana was the establishment of the sacrament of marriage.

This is one of those areas where people diverge at differing interpretations and draw conclusions over the actual scriptures. I hope I don't offend, but this is largely personal preference. Note, I'm talking about consuming and not drunkenness, which is clearly prohibited.

JaneBond007 said:

We drink wine every Sunday, even my very underage kids (real wine in the eucharist). I drink stronger liquors from time to time, not very often. More like social drinking. Too much food is like too much alcohol - will hurt you. The admonition is to avoid getting drunk or to harm yourself or others. There's no need to pray for people who are in control of what they do (drinking) as though they sin against G-d. They don't. As far as the priests not being allowed to take wine or stronger drink, we have that "law" today in the church. The wine to be consumed is Jesus himself, transubstantiated in the eucharist. Avoid anything but water 1 hour before communion. No one should enter the church in a drunken state, period. That rule was a precursor, a glimpse into the future of the sacrifice. The wine at the wedding at Cana was the establishment of the sacrament of marriage.

This is one of those areas where people verge at differing interpretations and draw conclusions over the actual scriptures. I hope I don't offend, but this is largely personal preference. Note, I'm talking about consuming and not drunkenness, which is clearly prohibited.

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not offended at all. I use to be a social drinker but once I read the scriptures i gave it up. Its no longer a part of my life. Especially when I sit back later and wonder if I said to much or gave something away I should not have, that was to much for me. It was an easy thing to do. I actually don't think its misinterpreted I think honesty that people are going to drink regardless. "There's nothing wrong with a glass every now and then" who says that? the folks say that, Yet God say avoid it. who is right. Oh and by the way, The word "abomination" in the Bible symbolizes lies (Proverbs 12:22). Babylon's wine, which contains false teachings, disorients and benumbs those who drink it and makes them spiritually drunk.

Hm, I read the scriptures and I will still take a drink. Yes, there are certainly many diff. types of symbolism in the bible as well as many levels of meaning. Some do, some don't. I personally do not want anyone to feel like s/he's a sinner for drinking wine. If someone else thinks it's sinful, then s/he should not do it. But that wouldn't apply to another person.

What examples are we setting for our children (and other children) when drinking?

Why does a person drink (alcohol)? Especially when it is something that is highly addictive.

I will not condemn a person who does drink. I do not want to beat them over the head with scriptures condemning them.

However, I cannot encourage drinking as a 'safe' choice for one to make. It's not. Especially when one 'defends' it without admitting the dangers of it.

What are we teaching young children about alcohol? Especially in this age when the use of substances are outrageous and only getting worse and the ones drinking and becoming alcoholics are younger than ever.

Our children matter...

JaneBond007 said:

Hm, I read the scriptures and I will still take a drink. Yes, there are certainly many diff. types of symbolism in the bible as well as many levels of meaning. Some do, some don't. I personally do not want anyone to feel like s/he's a sinner for drinking wine. If someone else thinks it's sinful, then s/he should not do it. But that wouldn't apply to another person.

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Drinking wine in and of itself is not a sin.

Drinking to excess is problematic.

I'm not a regular or even a social drinker. But I enjoy a glass of white or sparkling wine every now and again. I generally don't do mixed drinks or liquor.

Like Jesus said, it's not necessarily what goes into a person but what comes out that's the bigger problem.

Shimmie said:

What examples are we setting for our children (and other children) when drinking?

Why does a person drink (alcohol)? Especially when it is something that is highly addictive.

I will not condemn a person who does drink. I do not want to beat them over the head with scriptures condemning them.

However, I cannot encourage drinking as a 'safe' choice for one to make. It's not. Especially when one 'defends' it without admitting the dangers of it.

What are we teaching young children about alcohol? Especially in this age when the use of substances are outrageous and only getting worse and the ones drinking and becoming alcoholics are younger than ever.

Our children matter...

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Wine does not equal hard drugs and I wouldn't say it's addictive. It's like anything that someone views as an artistic or cultural thing. Having visited vineyards and caves even abroad, winemaking is an art. I will not condemn someone who enjoys wine.

Drinking as a past time or hobby is another story. erplexed Unfortunately, some people use alcohol as a means of escape or with the intent of getting buzzed. That would be considered sinful. But I don't agree that having an appreciation for wine is sinful.

Shimmie said:

What examples are we setting for our children (and other children) when drinking?

Why does a person drink (alcohol)? Especially when it is something that is highly addictive.

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I think alcohol can be addictive to someone predisposed to alcoholism or who abuses alcohol. I drink wine or rum-and-coke at family Christmas parties or special occasions like that. I usually take one glass, and even that I don't finish. The only wine I keep in my house is the bottles DH and I save for our wedding anniversary every August .

I don't go to clubs/clubbing, I don't "party" with strangers. Most of the people I hang around with are family, extended family, and my two best friends from high school who are like sisters to me.

Shimmie said:

I will not condemn a person who does drink. I do not want to beat them over the head with scriptures condemning them.

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I don't condemn anyone for drinking either. What I would condemn is alcohol abuse or drinking while driving, or getting drunk.

Shimmie said:

However, I cannot encourage drinking as a 'safe' choice for one to make. It's not. Especially when one 'defends' it without admitting the dangers of it.

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I agree that drinking can be a problem or a danger (as mentioned above with drunkenness, alcohol abuse, alcoholism), and I am completely against underage drinking as well as irresponsible drinking by adults. If I am at a get-together and know I will be driving, I will not drink at all.

I married into a Latino family, where abuelito having a cold beer with dinner, or abuelita a small glass of red wine with her steak is quite normal. I do think that sometimes culture can play into how people view and treat alcohol. I know of some people who feel they can't have fun or socialize unless they're drinking, that drinking till you're drunk is okay, etc. and that is NOT cool in my book.

Galadriel said:

I think alcohol can be addictive to someone predisposed to alcoholism or who abuses alcohol. I drink wine or rum-and-coke at family Christmas parties or special occasions like that. I usually take one glass, and even that I don't finish. The only wine I keep in my house is the bottles DH and I save for our wedding anniversary every August .

I don't go to clubs/clubbing, I don't "party" with strangers. Most of the people I hang around with are family, extended family, and my two best friends from high school who are like sisters to me.



I don't condemn anyone for drinking either. What I would condemn is alcohol abuse or drinking while driving, or getting drunk.



I agree that drinking can be a problem or a dangQer (as mentioned above with drunkenness, alcohol abuse, alcoholism), and I am completely against underage drinking as well as irresponsible drinking by adults. If I am at a get-together and know I will be driving, I will not drink at all.

I married into a Latino family, where abuelito having a cold beer with dinner, or abuelita a small glass of red wine with her steak is quite normal. I do think that sometimes culture can play into how people view and treat alcohol. I know of some people who feel they can't have fun or socialize unless they're drinking, that drinking till you're drunk is okay, etc. and that is NOT cool in my book.

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You married 'Latino'... that's beautiful!

Questions and it's only questions... No 'shots' or shade here. You're one of my dearest sisters here. You, Lady Belle, Jane and Blazinthru our OP. Each of you mean very much to me. We share too much at heart, so this is not a 'hit and run' inquiry.

Can you attend an event and choose not to drink?

What is it about alcohol that makes it worth drinking or enjoyable?

How does it make you feel when drinking? Relaxed, tipsy, sleepy? Part of the occasion? Part of the group?

If the Church didn't allow it, would you still drink?

My experience around those who drink is not always good to see.

Shimmie said:

Can you attend an event and choose not to drink?
Yes. No problem. Not being abble not to drink where there's alcohol available is a sign of an alcohol addiction or a self control issue.

What is it about alcohol that makes it worth drinking or enjoyable?
It's a matter of taste. I'm french and from the Caribbean. I'm a huge snob when it comes to wine, rhum or champagne. I can only drink great wine or rhum. My taste was educated by my family and my entourage to appreciate the good stuff.

How does it make you feel when drinking? Relaxed, tipsy, sleepy? Part of the occasion? Part of the group?
None of the above. I only drink in moderation. I enjoy the taste of a good wine or a good punch or cocktail, like I enjoy good food or good music.

If the Church didn't allow it, would you still drink?
I would seriously side eye a church that would prohibit alcohol, for it isn't biblical. If my church where to ask us to do an alcohol fast, that wouldn't be a problem for me. I would do it if I felt lead by the Holy Spirit to do it.

My experience around those who drink is not always good to see.

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Hello Shimmie,
I tried to answer your question as best as I could. Feel free to ask clarification if needed.

Shimmie said:

What examples are we setting for our children (and other children) when drinking?

Why does a person drink (alcohol)? Especially when it is something that is highly addictive.

I will not condemn a person who does drink. I do not want to beat them over the head with scriptures condemning them.

However, I cannot encourage drinking as a 'safe' choice for one to make. It's not. Especially when one 'defends' it without admitting the dangers of it.

What are we teaching young children about alcohol? Especially in this age when the use of substances are outrageous and only getting worse and the ones drinking and becoming alcoholics are younger than ever.

Our children matter...

Click to expand...

what we (the Church) should be teaching about alcohol is temperance and self control. self control is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. we need him to make choices about what we eat and what we drink, and how much of it.

we should teach them to know their body and how it react to foods and drinks (alcoholic or not). they should know how much of a certain drink or food is too much. they should know in what condition they can or cannot eat certain food or drink certain beverage.

we must tell them the truth: alcohol is like sugar or salt, an abusive use of it is going to kill you. "It's the dose that makes the poison".

we must also teach them that the promise of the Lord is abundance of bread, wine and oil. the biblical symbolism of this three thing is really important for us christians, bread = the Body of Christ, wine = the Blood of Christ and oil = the Holy Spirit.

alcohol abuse and addiction is a disease but behind it there is also a spiritual problem. the devil trying to take one of the Lord's blessing (wine) and changing its purpose, its use. What the Lord create in a certain context and with a certain purpose (sex, wine, bread, marriage, oil,...) is being misappropriated and misused by the enemy.
our duty as children of God is to set the record straight no matter what.

Shimmie said:

You married 'Latino'... that's beautiful!

Questions and it's only questions... No 'shots' or shade here. You're one of my dearest sisters here. You, Lady Belle, Jane and Blazinthru our OP. Each of you mean very much to me. We share too much at heart, so this is not a 'hit and run' inquiry.

Can you attend an event and choose not to drink?

What is it about alcohol that makes it worth drinking or enjoyable?

How does it make you feel when drinking? Relaxed, tipsy, sleepy? Part of the occasion? Part of the group?

If the Church didn't allow it, would you still drink?

My experience around those who drink is not always good to see.

Click to expand...

I actually do not attend any events that serve Alcohol. I did go to a wedding and there was no alcohol served but if you went through another door you can purchase what you want, I do not drink at all it is not tempting to me. But the scripture rings out true, it is something to watching in the glass. At times I missed that old feelings, but you know I was never comfortable in my skin after drinking it. Could never put my finger on why exactly. My family has a history of alcohol abuse, some just all fun, some abusive. My great aunts did not go ANYWHERE without their booze, for real. no need to go to the bar if your traveling with them, just go to their room and ask for whatever you want they got it.

Alcohol is pleasurable, relaxing. But for me it makes you not able to make a quick decision. You have to think a little harder then you would had you not taken the drink. I rather be clear and focused at all times.

My Church does not allow alcohol not even in stuff like extract, however, I follow God not my church. I don't even know if its a question of allow or not because once you go home you do what you want to do anyway.

I think that the scriptures warn of us impeding danger, its our choice to follow it or go our own way. Most "Christian" feel that its okay to have a drink every now and then, yet God says do not even touch it because it will put you off guard and for some folks all they need is one drink, that's it.
So somethings God has already warned us, but even if God didn't warn us or the church warned us, just looking at peoples lives can tell you alcohol in any form is dangerous to your health.

HE wants us to be sober, well after one glass you can't be sober, you have already damaged some brain cells and your thinking is not at top level at all.

Alcohol: The Bible Hall of Shame
The first reference to wine is found in Genesis when Noah, after the Flood, created the original fermented grape juice. "Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent" (Genesis 9:21). The sad record is that Noah drank and stumbled around naked and shamefully exposed himself to his sons. This first experiment with a new drug ended with a scathing curse falling on Noah's posterity.

Lot also drank, and he was therefore easily seduced into having incestuous relations with his daughters. "So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose" (Genesis 19:33). The offspring of this relationship became the nations of Moab and Amnon, the mortal enemies of God's people. And there is no shortage of evidence today that alcohol often leads to sexual immorality, such as adultery, rape, and incest.

Then there is the infamous experience when the children of Israel drank alcohol, stripped themselves naked, and worshiped a golden calf (Exodus 32:6, 25). This fermented "church social" ended in a horrible massacre.

Amnon, another drinker and the son of David, raped his half-sister Tamar. Because of this insidious act, he lost his life at the hands of his enraged brother while intoxicated (2 Samuel 13:28).

These are only a few examples. Truly, when one considers the biblical record of fermented drink, you have to wonder why any genuine Christian would argue in its defense!

Fermented Wine Brings Woe
The word "woe" is not used commonly today in the English vernacular. The word means deep distress or misery-as from grief and/or wretchedness. The Bible is found using the word in many different places. Not surprisingly, the use of alcohol is often the reason why the word is used!


"Woe to those who rise early in the morning, That they may follow intoxicating drink; Who continue until night, till wine inflames them!" (Isaiah 5:11).
"Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who hath complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine" (Proverbs 23:29-30).
"Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness!" (Habakkuk 2:15).
Does the Christian need any more condemnation of alcohol consumption than this?

A Matter of Health
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Corinthians 6:20 KJV). From liver disease to ulcers to dementia, an almost endless list of health problems have been linked to the drinking of alcohol.

Alcohol (also grain alcohol) is a toxin that severely affects the central nervous system when ingested. Most people know that even moderate "social drinking" destroys brain cells.

If a person holds a small swig of whiskey in his or her mouth for about 10 minutes, various parts of the mouth's interior will blister. If you then blindfold them and have them taste various beverages-for instance, water, vinegar, or milk-you will find that they are incapable of distinguishing one from another. This experiment proves to a certainty that alcohol is not only a violent irritant, but also a narcotic.

I think even the strongest advocates of alcohol must honestly admit that its consumption certainly does not glorify God in their body; instead, it slowly destroys body and mind, which is a clear violation of the sixth commandment.

Just as cigarette smoking is suicide on the installment plan, so is the use of alcohol-which is a leading killer in the United States.

Also consider that there is an almost endless selection of other good things to drink that nourishes the body and mind. So why would any Christians want to gamble like this-risking their health, witness, family, and eternal life to argue in defense of this destructive substance? A very safe and simple rule for these issues is: When in doubt, leave it out!

In a land of 300 lb. people all over the place, we're worried about social drinking? Cigarettes are bad because the industry placed addictive nicotine in it. Tobacco by itself is not addictive nor harmful until you abuse it. But so are Doritos. So is uncontrolled sex. So is addictive exercise and starvation leading to anorexia. We have an addictive society full of greed and gluttony. 5 bedroom houses can be gluttonous and so can jobs you struggled to get that pay above and beyond what you honestly need to just live healthily in this world. Hoarding monies and jetsetting all across the globe is also gluttony...depending upon the person. You live in such a world. Again, it's how every individual sees something...but that s/he should not try and bend scripture around their point of view. G-d gives us a heads-up on everything and things He absolutely prohibits, He says directly. The Decalogue is your guide for daily living.

Shimmie said:

Can you attend an event and choose not to drink?

What is it about alcohol that makes it worth drinking or enjoyable?

How does it make you feel when drinking? Relaxed, tipsy, sleepy? Part of the occasion? Part of the group?

If the Church didn't allow it, would you still drink?

My experience around those who drink is not always good to see.

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I definitely am not a regular drinker So I attend stuff all the time and don't drink.

I wouldn't say it's an enjoyable thing because I don't see it as an activity or a hobby. It's more an appreciation for the wine making process and the end results of lots of effort and planning.

It doesn't make me feel any particular way because I'm not drinking to excess.

If it was considered a sin by the Church or if there was any actual Biblical basis, no, I wouldn't drink.

I agree--in college I've seen people who drink to excess. I think there is a wide chasm between those who go out with the purpose of getting drunk and those who enjoy wine simply because they enjoy wine.

ktykaty said:

I would seriously side eye a church that would prohibit alcohol, for it isn't biblical. If my church where to ask us to do an alcohol fast, that wouldn't be a problem for me. I would do it if I felt lead by the Holy Spirit to do it.

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Basically. The verses are referring to drinking to excess or are used as a metaphor to make a point. Wine in and of itself has no sin attached to it. Just like women wearing pants. But that's another thread.

ktykaty said:

what we (the Church) should be teaching about alcohol is temperance and self control. self control is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. we need him to make choices about what we eat and what we drink, and how much of it.

we should teach them to know their body and how it react to foods and drinks (alcoholic or not). they should know how much of a certain drink or food is too much. they should know in what condition they can or cannot eat certain food or drink certain beverage.

we must tell them the truth: alcohol is like sugar or salt, an abusive use of it is going to kill you. "It's the dose that makes the poison".

we must also teach them that the promise of the Lord is abundance of bread, wine and oil. the biblical symbolism of this three thing is really important for us christians, bread = the Body of Christ, wine = the Blood of Christ and oil = the Holy Spirit.

alcohol abuse and addiction is a disease but behind it there is also a spiritual problem. the devil trying to take one of the Lord's blessing (wine) and changing its purpose, its use. What the Lord create in a certain context and with a certain purpose (sex, wine, bread, marriage, oil,...) is being misappropriated and misused by the enemy.
our duty as children of God is to set the record straight no matter what.

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Bon Jour ktykaty Merci' for your answers.

While reading your post the 'bolded' stood out... 'spirit'.

Just about every shop, store or market that sells alcohol has the name 'Spirit or Spirits' on it's banner or store sign. I noticed a particular store that had 'spirits' written beneath almost every advertised name brand in their window display.

This isn't random.

"House of Spirits" a liquor store at Select Citywalk



Welcome to Mission Wine & Spirits!

http://www.missionliquor.com/Store/Qstore/Qstore.cgi

"Yankee Spirits"

http://www.yankeespirits.com/

This isn't random. People do 'change' when they have a drink. They come into a 'relaxed' state which has proven to be an open door for a different spirit to enter in and change one's actions, thoughts, behavior.

Guys have long used alcohol to get a girl 'relaxed' to have sex with him. She becomes inhibited, she succumbs to the spirit of sensuality. And she's not necessarily drunk. Just relaxed enough to allow that spirit to rule.

Sitting here, I can think of many other reasons alcohol is called a spirit.

I have to give great 'pause' to having a relaxed conscious to drinking. It's not called a 'spirit' by random.

Just something to think about...

Oh Shimmie, "spirits" refers to "animated" or something that lifts up your being physically. Warms you. It doesn't refer to any connection with something evil.
Thing is, it's preference, and solely that. Anything on this good green earth can become a poison if a human allows it to be by misuse.

I'll be honest with you, when somebody says they will pray for discernment for me concerning the use of alcohol, I am insulted somewhat. Why? I don't need someone's prayers to force me to follow their own convictions on what is good for THEIR lives. And I absolutely do know their concern is coming from a good place. But it is an incorrect place when it attempts to make an individual do what another wants that person to do based upon themselves. We use wine, in church. It is one of the earth's most beautiful creations. We offer blessings on wine and bread (catholic and Jewish) and G-d is the one who set that into motion. There is no prohibition on drinking wine nor liquor and we are the universal church. If people abuse it? Yes, they do, as well as other things.

blazingthru

I do value your opinion and the scriptures you presented. It still will not change my decision to use alcohol. To others who think my decision is wrong, let them know that they cannot manipulate the true discernment given by G-d. Sometimes, we humans just do not know all there is to know. To others who are fearful of drinking wine, liquor, dance or smoke cigarettes, do not drink it, smoke it nor go to clubs and dance. You must do what your OWN conscience convicts you of.

Shimmie said:

You married 'Latino'... that's beautiful!

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Thank you! DH and fam are just the most lovely people ever. They are the type of people that you would want to make your life-long friends .

Shimmie said:

Questions and it's only questions... No 'shots' or shade here. You're one of my dearest sisters here. You, Lady Belle, Jane and Blazinthru our OP.

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Of course, no offense taken. Having alcohol isn't like having water or punch, and it should be treated with responsibility.

Shimmie said:

Can you attend an event and choose not to drink?

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Yes, and often I choose not to drink for various reasons (i.e., healthy eating/drinking regimen that excludes alcohol, more interested in drinking something else, pregnant/nursing, etc.). Right now, I'm just drinking water, tea, and coffee, because it's getting tougher to stay in shape

Shimmie said:

What is it about alcohol that makes it worth drinking or enjoyable?

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I hate the taste of beer and so won't drink it. I enjoy wine for the taste, especially when paired with certain foods or desserts.

I don't drink for the "buzz" and I certainly wouldn't get drunk. I just see wine (or the occasional rum-and-coke) as just another drink option among many.

Shimmie said:

How does it make you feel when drinking? Relaxed, tipsy, sleepy?

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I actually get relaxed/sleepy, which is why I usually drink only one glass and why I never do it if I am driving.

Shimmie said:

Part of the occasion? Part of the group?

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I'll drink at a family party/occasion or if I am dining at a restaurant with DH. Those are about the only venues you'll find me drinking .

Shimmie said:

If the Church didn't allow it, would you still drink?

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If drinking was prohibited as sinful, yes I would avoid it.

I currently avoid drunkenness and alcohol abuse, because these would be sinful and negligent behavior.

Shimmie said:

My experience around those who drink is not always good to see.

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I can see how that would affect your outlook on drinking, and depending on one's situation or environment, sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution. I have seen people be normal and responsible with wine/alcohol, and I've seen people be idiots with it. We've seen so many sad stories where a girl is attacked or goes missing after a night of drinking, or how a person who thought they could handle their liquor ends up in a car accident. I definitely see your concern.

blazingthru said:

Also consider that there is an almost endless selection of other good things to drink that nourishes the body and mind. So why would any Christians want to gamble like this-risking their health, witness, family, and eternal life to argue in defense of this destructive substance? A very safe and simple rule for these issues is: When in doubt, leave it out!

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I respect other Christians who choose to completely abstain from alcohol. When I attended a Christian university as an undergrad, I agreed to abide by the school's no-drinking rule in the student contract. I can respect that. However, I think depicting any Christian who chooses to drink wine or beer (and I'm not talking about alcoholics or drunkards) as recklessly risking his health, family, and eternal salvation is drama worthy of the Pharisees.

Shimmie said:

This isn't random. People do 'change' when they have a drink. They come into a 'relaxed' state which has proven to be an open door for a different spirit to enter in and change one's actions, thoughts, behavior.


I have to give great 'pause' to having a relaxed conscious to drinking. It's not called a 'spirit' by random.

Just something to think about...

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I believe that, as believers, spirits of evil don't enter you. People might be oppressed by outside evil but very few people on earth, whichever religion, are actually and certifiably possessed by demons or the devil. Foreplay is probaby the no. one method of lowering one's inhibitions, leading them to sex, mindset combined. Although people do commit crimes using drugs and alcohol, that still is not the same thing as someone taking a drink who is responsible and not using it to commit a crime anymore than a responsible person using a car opposed to someone who commits vehicular homicide.

Someone I know thinks that any NSAID is a spirit. She was taught this at her church and so, she advised me not to take anything like that. I had mentioned a headache or so. I don't remember the whole convo exactly, but something like that. I was taken aback. Actually, what she was doing was inadvertently practicing spiritism. If you truly think about it...having fear of tea, coffee, alcohol, dancing...everything where you think an evil spirit might enter you. It can go further into believing that trees have spirits and the shadows they cast - evil, so avoiding that at evening etc. I've heard it all. Life was not meant to live afraid of every single thing. We are to be cautious. Every creation on earth serves a purpose. I'm only using this as an example and not pointing to anyone here, but she just came to mind and I've waited for such a time as to ask questions about it.

blazingthru said:

Alcohol is pleasurable, relaxing. But for me it makes you not able to make a quick decision. You have to think a little harder then you would had you not taken the drink. I rather be clear and focused at all times.

My Church does not allow alcohol not even in stuff like extract, !

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Yes, it is pleasurable, just like a cold Sprite on a hot day in a tall glass with ice. And a bag of Lays potato chips Talk about addictive! I have to pass those Lays up... Well, if one is losing control, that's when one ought stop. The scriptures refer to drunkenness. Note how there are basically 3 differing opinions and 3 separate places we worship? That's what I meant by personal preference and/or what your own church/conscience teaches. People ought not do what they feel is wrong but that doesn't make it wrong for others unless G-d specifically prohibited it.

As to extracts, that means that you cannot use extract of almond and vanilla to make cookies and cakes? Do you have to use the real vanilla bean? Some of those are even kept in alcohol. Or do you use the dried ones? If alcohol disperses via heat, you wouldn't have any part of it. What about cough syrups and cold elixirs? Aspirins and prescription pain relievers? Is that Holiness or SSD?


@Blazinthru

I missed your OP opening sentence again...yes, it was the normal drink of biblical times because making pressed wine is very tedious in large quantities and they didn't have refrigeration to keep the fresh. Fermentation was and is a way of preserving foods. We see metaphors of yeast destroying the other flours but leaven is not sinful. People were allowed leaven but there were times they had to use unleavened for religious purposes. We have this today.

What about nonalcoholic wines?

Galadriel said:

I respect other Christians who choose to completely abstain from alcohol. When I attended a Christian university as an undergrad, I agreed to abide by the school's no-drinking rule in the student contract. I can respect that. However, I think depicting any Christian who chooses to drink wine or beer (and I'm not talking about alcoholics or drunkards) as recklessly risking his health, family, and eternal salvation is drama worthy of the Pharisees.

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I would not agree with this at all, the fact is this you might be able to get away with one drink but the next person could get addicted to it. it starts with one drink. So as Christians why would we, fully knowing the path the others have taken and its destruction, engage in it at all.

As for me and my house we serve the Lord, so for me when I read the dangers of drinking from the word that is it for me. Since I choose to walk on the side that is going to keep me focus and on track. I will abstain, we all have free will to make our own choices, but fully knowing what the end results for so many, I don't see how a "christian" can drink calmly. But that is my opinion not an opinion from the word.

JaneBond007 said:

Yes, it is pleasurable, just like a cold Sprite on a hot day in a tall glass with ice. And a bag of Lays potato chips Talk about addictive! I have to pass those Lays up... Well, if one is losing control, that's when one ought stop. The scriptures refer to drunkenness. Note how there are basically 3 differing opinions and 3 separate places we worship? That's what I meant by personal preference and/or what your own church/conscience teaches. People ought not do what they feel is wrong but that doesn't make it wrong for others unless G-d specifically prohibited it.

As to extracts, that means that you cannot use extract of almond and vanilla to make cookies and cakes? Do you have to use the real vanilla bean? Some of those are even kept in alcohol.

Or do you use the dried ones? If alcohol disperses via heat, you wouldn't have any part of it. What about cough syrups and cold elixirs? Aspirins and prescription pain relievers? Is that Holiness or SSD?

@Blazinthru

I missed your OP opening sentence again...yes, it was the normal drink of biblical times because making pressed wine is very tedious in large quantities and they didn't have refrigeration to keep the fresh. Fermentation was and is a way of preserving foods. We see metaphors of yeast destroying the other flours but leaven is not sinful. People were allowed leaven but there were times they had to use unleavened for religious purposes. We have this today.

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In cooking, alcohol evaporates. The food doesn't absorb the alcohol.

I don't take cold medications with alcohol. Actually, I don't take medications for colds at all. Rarely do I take pain relievers. By keeping the body, less acidic and more alkaline, there's little need for any of that.

As for those who do, it's not a social activity, they're taking medication temporarily until their symptoms subside.

blazingthru said:

I would not agree with this at, the fact is this you might be able to get away with one drink but the next person could get addicted to it. it starts with one drink. So as Christians why would we fully knowing the path the others have taken and its destruction engage in it at all.

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It's not a matter of "getting away" with anything. Drinking wine is not sinful or morally wrong. There are people who abuse alcohol and those who don't. The abuse is what's sinful.

It's like saying sex is sinful because so many people fornicate or practice sexual perversion, and therefore we should completely abstain from sex. Sex isn't the problem, it's the abuse of it.

Galadriel said:

Thank you! DH and fam are just the most lovely people ever. They are the type of people that you would want to make your life-long friends .





Of course, no offense taken. Having alcohol isn't like having water or punch, and it should be treated with responsibility.




Yes, and often I choose not to drink for various reasons (i.e., healthy eating/drinking regimen that excludes alcohol, more interested in drinking something else, pregnant/nursing, etc.). Right now, I'm just drinking water, tea, and coffee, because it's getting tougher to stay in shape



I hate the taste of beer and so won't drink it. I enjoy wine for the taste, especially when paired with certain foods or desserts.

I don't drink for the "buzz" and I certainly wouldn't get drunk. I just see wine (or the occasional rum-and-coke) as just another drink option among many.



I actually get relaxed/sleepy, which is why I usually drink only one glass and why I never do it if I am driving.



I'll drink at a family party/occasion or if I am dining at a restaurant with DH. Those are about the only venues you'll find me drinking .



If drinking was prohibited as sinful, yes I would avoid it.

I currently avoid drunkenness and alcohol abuse, because these would be sinful and negligent behavior.



I can see how that would affect your outlook on drinking, and depending on one's situation or environment, sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution. I have seen people be normal and responsible with wine/alcohol, and I've seen people be idiots with it. We've seen so many sad stories where a girl is attacked or goes missing after a night of drinking, or how a person who thought they could handle their liquor ends up in a car accident. I definitely see your concern.

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Galadriel, as always your answers are 'classic', just like you are.

Thank you for answering. I have other questions as it does lie on my heart about Christians and drinking. I hope you are here to share more answers.

You and Hubby having a romantic dinner and a glass of wine... sounds 'Classic'.

Here are two other things (outside of what you've shared) that I have on my heart.

New Christians who have lived it up, drinking, partying, more drinking. If they think it's okay to continue drinking, how will they truly be delivered?

Happy Hour... Should Christians participate? We are to be in this world but not of it. We are to be 'separate' from the world. To see Christians in the same arena, participating in the same activity, where is our 'witness'.

Again, there's no contention here. These are things I question when it comes to drinking, even for non-Christians.

Lately I've been viewing Tia and Tamera's reality show. These girls' are professing Christians and on this show, they drink (and curse) way too much. I've always liked them and still do, but I am very disappointed in their display on this show. Where is their witness for Jesus?

so that we can understand prophecy and the end times events that are going on now. Remember almost the entire world is deceived. the bible says over and over to be wise,
but in proverbs 20: it says that Wine is a mocker Proverbs 20:1 (KJV 1900)
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: And whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. It clearly says those who are deceived by it are not wise. Yet God repeats over and over for us to be wise its very important to be wise so you can understand what is going on. Now if there is something I really want to do, I will find a way to do it. But you can't have this attitude to the word of God. Its no longer God your following but yourself, and thereby the door is opened wide for you to be fooled. Many are already blinded to what is going on right in front of their faces, for lack of wisdom.

Oh I believe that it is a sin to drink wine. God said to not even look at it. Why would he say that, if he doesn't mind. Obviously he does mind. He warns us over and over that it is a danger. Also its a form of suicide by degrees. So is a myriad of other things. that we do and think is acceptable. Any substance or unhealthful practice that damages the body or shortens one's life must be laid aside. Suicide by degrees is still suicide. This, of course, includes harmful drugs (such as tobacco in all of its forms) and the many drinks that contain a popular yet highly detrimental drug called caffeine. God says that He will destroy people who knowingly wreak havoc upon their body temples.

In saying, I gave up chocolate but I am struggling with it. Its not easy.