Why Is It BAD to use OIL when PRESSING/FLAT IRONING?

sunshinebeautiful · Feb 4, 2007

HoneyDew said:
Well, I have to say that ever since I started using Qhemet's Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in and then applying serum before drying and flat-ironing, I had never really had true longlasting moisture. This product is a butter, which I understand is like oil, right? I don't know, but I am not going to stop using it because it does work wonders for me. Actually after I started using it, I had to lower the heat on my flat-iron. My hair did not require as much heat to get straight with this product. Also, I don't have to shampoo/condition as often for moisture like I used to. The moisture from washday last longer than other products I have used as leave-ins.

Here are the ingredients:

Ingredients: Pure Mowrah (Bassia Latifolia) Butter, Distilled Water, Organic Sidr (Zizyphus) Extract, Organic Aloe (Aloe Ferrox) Africana, MSM Sulfur, Vegetable Glycerin, Vegetable Emulsifier, Phenoxyethanol & Ethylhexylglycerin (Food Grade Paraben-free and Formaldehyde-free Preservative), Fragrance.

I have other products that I use for styling moisture during the week after shampoo days, but this product has worked wonders for my hair.

I'm interested in knowing the answer to this question as well. Now that I think about it, awhile back I flatironed my hair after applying a butter as a leave-in and my hair was definitely butter-soft and moisturized. Do butters act like oils? I don't see any oils listed in the ingredients so I'm not sure myself.

navsegda · Feb 4, 2007

HoneyDew said:
Well, I have to say that ever since I started using Qhemet's Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in and then applying serum before drying and flat-ironing, I had never really had true longlasting moisture.This product is a butter, which I understand is like oil, right? I don't know, but I am not going to stop using it because it does work wonders for me. Actually after I started using it, I had to lower the heat on my flat-iron. My hair did not require as much heat to get straight with this product. Also, I don't have to shampoo/condition as often for moisture like I used to. The moisture from washday last longer than other products I have used as leave-ins.

Here are the ingredients:

Ingredients: Pure Mowrah (Bassia Latifolia) Butter, Distilled Water, Organic Sidr (Zizyphus) Extract, Organic Aloe (Aloe Ferrox) Africana, MSM Sulfur, Vegetable Glycerin, Vegetable Emulsifier, Phenoxyethanol & Ethylhexylglycerin (Food Grade Paraben-free and Formaldehyde-free Preservative), Fragrance.

I have other products that I use for styling moisture during the week after shampoo days, but this product has worked wonders for my hair.

I personally wouldn't use it before flat ironing because typically the ingredients do make it like an oil and it seems better at retaining moisture than anything else. Far-infrared heat ions from a ceramic flat iron are meant to produce water molecule resonance and hold in moisture, so your hair shouldn't be less moisturized after blow drying and flat-ironing. I would use a serum or heat protectant spray (like Nexxus Heat Protexx) before flat ironing and then use the Qhemet butter afterwards if you are worried about moisture escaping later.

Also, what serum did you normally use in the past? I noticed drastic differences in my hair when using the Garnier serum vs. the Silk Infusion for instance.

Ms Lala · Feb 4, 2007

Wow this is so interesting!!! So it is ok for me to apply my leave in after washing, let my hair air dry, and then apply heat protectant?

If I let my hair air dry w/o some type of conditioner or moisturizer my hair would be soooooo hard. Just to think for years I literally fried my hair and then wondered why it wouldn't grow. Also does anyone know of a ceramic hot comb, my hair is natural and a pressing comb seems to work better for straightening.

navsegda · Feb 4, 2007

Ms Lala said:
Wow this is so interesting!!! So it is ok for me to apply my leave in after washing, let my hair air dry, and then apply heat protectant?

If I let my hair air dry w/o some type of conditioner or moisturizer my hair would be soooooo hard. Just to think for years I literally fried my hair and then wondered why it wouldn't grow. Also does anyone know of a ceramic hot comb, my hair is natural and a pressing comb seems to work better for straightening.

Sure, that's totally ok. I do this all the time (minus the air-drying).

I don't know of any 100% pure ceramic hot combs. What width plate do you have on a flat iron? If you are natural, it may help to have a smaller plate (like 3/4" or 1/2" inch to get the roots straight).

Ms Lala · Feb 4, 2007

navsegda said:
Sure, that's totally ok. I do this all the time (minus the air-drying).

I don't know of any 100% pure ceramic hot combs. What width plate do you have on a flat iron? If you are natural, it may help to have a smaller plate (like 3/4" or 1/2" inch to get the roots straight).[/quote]

Thanks very much! I feel so informed now. It is a good idea to get a smaller iron. The one I have now is a 1 inch and I have difficult time w/the roots.

Treasure2k6 · Feb 4, 2007

You are so right about oil! I didn't realize it but I omitted the amounts of oil I'd been using in my regimen and got on a serum & butter tip. (IC Fantaisia Gloss-Straightener & heat Protectant also Shea Butter) I was so surprised the first time that I just went straight into Flat ironing after I did the applications. My hair was sooo soft but still strong enough to put back into a low bun. No breakage....at all! To top it off, I blow dried it a bit as well. Since then, I have been hooked on butters and glosses.

sunshinebeautiful said:
I wish I had seen this thread before I flat ironed my hair a few weeks ago using WGO. Before the flatironing -- No breakage. After the flat ironing -- Little broken hair pieces galore. I had to do a serious protein treatment and will probably have to trim those ends at some point. But what a difference after omitting oil and just using serum... No breakage, and shiny, soft, moisturized hair.

RubyWoo · Feb 4, 2007

Navs, what do you think about these ingredients?

Cyclomethicone, Dimethiconol, Trimethylsiloxyamodimethicone, C11-15 Pareth-7, C12-16 Pareth-9, Trideceth-12, Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Amyl Cinnamal, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Salicylate, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Limonene, Isopropylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Butylparaben

I was thinking of getting the Paul Mitchell Super skinny serum and was looking to rollerset with heat under a dryer and maybe flat iron afterwards (still on the fence on the last option). Judging from the first three ingredients it's looking good but I'm not sure about the rest. Would this be a good protectant? Also, do you think a serum/heat protectant is necessary when using indirect heat? TIA!

navsegda · Feb 4, 2007

Naturellle said:
Navs, what do you think about these ingredients?

Cyclomethicone, Dimethiconol, Trimethylsiloxyamodimethicone, C11-15 Pareth-7, C12-16 Pareth-9, Trideceth-12, Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Amyl Cinnamal, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Salicylate, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Limonene, Isopropylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Butylparaben

I was thinking of getting the Paul Mitchell Super skinny serum and was looking to rollerset with heat under a dryer. Would this be a good protectant? Also, do you think a serum/heat protectant is necessary when using indirect heat? TIA!

Those are really good ingredients. It has 3 major silicones as the first 3 ingredients, and silicones are phenomenal when it comes to heat protectants.

"Indirect" heat is still heat, so yes, you should be using a heat protectant there as well.

RubyWoo · Feb 4, 2007

navsegda said:
Those are really good ingredients. It has 3 major silicones as the first 3 ingredients, and silicones are phenomenal when it comes to heat protectants.

"Indirect" heat is still heat, so yes, you should be using a heat protectant there as well.

Thank you!!

Artemis · Feb 4, 2007

@ Naturelle

That PM Super Skinny is really good! I've used it for my rollersets to seal in moisture and it also helps the ends grab onto the roller, but not in a "sticky" way. When the hair is dry, it's super soft and smooth.

I agree w/Navs a/b indirect heat being included in whether to use heat protection. Heat is heat, indirect or otherwise, IMO.

RubyWoo · Feb 4, 2007

artemis_e. said:
@ Naturelle

That PM Super Skinny is really good! I've used it for my rollersets to seal in moisture and it also helps the ends grab onto the roller, but not in a "sticky" way. When the hair is dry, it's super soft and smooth.

I agree w/Navs a/b indirect heat being included in whether to use heat protection. Heat is heat, indirect or otherwise, IMO.

Thank you!!

I've learned so much from this thread. I've never used serums before so I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right and protect those ends :lol:

! This is gonna be my third attempt at a rollerset and I want it to come out right this time. The first two times I used too much products and I airdried and it was a flop so I'm using heat this time

with a serum/heat protectant and just one leave-in conditioner.

Have you (or anyone) ever used Fantasia Hair Polisher Heat Protector Straightening serum for a roller set? I bought that yesterday after reading soo many good reviews on it for flat ironing and planning to use it for my rollerset.

Artemis · Feb 4, 2007

Nope, but I'm sure it works similarly to the PM Super Skinny. When you rollerset are you doing it on sopping wet hair? That's the key to a successful set. If you don't already, get yourself a spray bottle and keep it filled w/water so you can spray and re-spray as necessary. Don't worry a/b the serum, it can still do it's job with the hair wet like that...

HTH

RubyWoo · Feb 4, 2007

artemis_e. said:
Nope, but I'm sure it works similarly to the PM Super Skinny. When you rollerset are you doing it on sopping wet hair? That's the key to a successful set. If you don't already, get yourself a spray bottle and keep it filled w/water so you can spray and re-spray as necessary. Don't worry a/b the serum, it can still do it's job with the hair wet like that...

HTH

No, I wasn't doing it on sopping wet hair. That was probably part of the problem. I towel dried and then went to work. Thank you soo much for the tips! I really appreciate! it

Artemis · Feb 4, 2007

Not a problem

.

When you get a chance do a search for Macherie's blog or some of the rollersetting threads. There's tons of tutorials on here...I'll see if I can bump a couple up for you.

SerenityBreeze · Feb 4, 2007

Great information Navs!

HoneyDew · Feb 4, 2007

navsegda said:
I personally wouldn't use it before flat ironing because typically the ingredients do make it like an oil and it seems better at retaining moisture than anything else. Far-infrared heat ions from a ceramic flat iron are meant to produce water molecule resonance and hold in moisture, so your hair shouldn't be less moisturized after blow drying and flat-ironing. I would use a serum or heat protectant spray (like Nexxus Heat Protexx) before flat ironing and then use the Qhemet butter afterwards if you are worried about moisture escaping later.

Also, what serum did you normally use in the past? I noticed drastic differences in my hair when using the Garnier serum vs. the Silk Infusion for instance.

I use Fantasia IC in the pink bottle, Keracare Silken Seal or Redken Heat Glide. I don't like Garnier's serum. It does not seem to work for me like the ones I use. I do own some Silk Infusion, but I have never used it. I plan to try it out after I finish what I am currently using.

So far, what I am doing is working, though. We'll see what happens.

InnerSoul · Feb 4, 2007

CinnaMocha said:
Than my poor hair suffered back in the day when I pressed it with all that oil/grease during my college days...shame, shame, shame...

this also explains why my hair strands in the past would split in five different directions when I would blow dry my hair with the comb attachment...I only had oils on my hair not a heat protectant

.

angellazette · Feb 5, 2007

navsegda said:
I think it would depend on what oil it is (some oils are heavier than others, for instance, regular Amla oil would remain on the strands longer than Amla Lite). What oil do you normally use?

I use coconut oil.

AVNchick · Feb 5, 2007

What a great thread. I need to print out copies and hand them to friends and family who think that using grease to hot-comb their hair actually protects :ohwell:

navsegda · Feb 5, 2007

angellazette said:
I use coconut oil.

In that case, I'd wait a couple days or until the next wash day altogether. I don't know how heavily you apply your coconut oil to your hair. But I never flat iron anyway except right after I've washed and conditioned (flat ironing "dirty" hair is also bad) and the only time I ever use oil is either before a wash or after I've flat ironed.

pistachio · Feb 5, 2007

Hey Navs!

I just bought some CHI silk infusion and was wondering if you apply it to wet hair, then air dry and flat-iron, or apply it to already dried hair, then flat iron? And about how much d you use for your whole head? A quarter, nickle, or dime sized amount? Sorry for all the questions! If anyone else would like to answer with feedback I'd love to hear what you guys have to say too

kally · Feb 5, 2007

Thanks Nav for all of this information and you do have some beautiful hair.

Once my hair grows out, I plan to flat iron and this will help me out.

baglady215 · Feb 5, 2007

Great thread. I used to flat iron with coconut oil and while I had shine, it felt deathly dry. This makes so much sense! I just ordered some CHI Silk Infusion (although I have tons of other serums... it's the PJ in me!) and I can't wait to try it out. Thanks Nav!!!

Bublnbrnsuga · Feb 5, 2007

Haven't read then entire thread, but anyway:
I use WGO on my hair when pressing/flatironing and never had a problem. (whenever I do flatiron/press). Growing up getting my hair pressed, posner bergamont grease was used. If not, it would defeat the purpose of straightening. My hair would've been a frizzy mess for real with out oils. Matter of fact, my hair gets straighter when using oils. Never used a heat protectants and really don't see a need to since my hair bounces right back after a press/flatiron.

Grease/oils for flatironing/pressing for me all the way, baby!

HoneyDew · Feb 5, 2007

Bublnbrnsuga said:
Haven't read then entire thread, but anyway:
I use WGO on my hair when pressing/flatironing and never had a problem. (whenever I do flatiron/press). Growing up getting my hair pressed, posner bergamont grease was used. If not, it would defeat the purpose of straightening. My hair would've been a frizzy mess for real with out oils. Matter of fact, my hair gets straighter when using oils. Never used a heat protectants and really don't see a need to since my hair bounces right back after a press/flatiron.

Grease/oils for flatironing/pressing for me all the way, baby!

That's what I was saying too. I use Sidr Tree Butter Balm on my wet hair before I dry it and flatiron. I do use a serum, too, but the Butter Balm on my wet hair as a leave-in really gives me good results and moisture.

Before I discovered Sidr Tree I used to use a leave-in, serum and Kemi oyl. Never had a problem. I have never had a problem with heat damage or breakage. Really the only hair problem I have ever had, and caused me to cut my hair was having a weave in my hair too long. I never had a problem with heat damage or dryness or anything with my hair.

Honestly, the times when I DON'T use my Sidr tree butter balm is when #1 I have to use more heat to get my hair straight or #2 my moisture does not last as long as I like during the week and I haev to keep applying moisturizer.

I think it is also the temp. that a person uses and how often the heat is used that make a difference as well.

navsegda · Feb 5, 2007

pistachio said:
Hey Navs!

I just bought some CHI silk infusion and was wondering if you apply it to wet hair, then air dry and flat-iron, or apply it to already dried hair, then flat iron? And about how much d you use for your whole head? A quarter, nickle, or dime sized amount? Sorry for all the questions! If anyone else would like to answer with feedback I'd love to hear what you guys have to say too

I have my hair divided into 4 sections and then I use a quarter-sized amount on each section. I usually wait until the hair has already dried before applying it but I've used it in the past on wet hair and still had really great results.

navsegda · Feb 5, 2007

Bublnbrnsuga said:
Haven't read then entire thread, but anyway:
I use WGO on my hair when pressing/flatironing and never had a problem. (whenever I do flatiron/press). Growing up getting my hair pressed, posner bergamont grease was used. If not, it would defeat the purpose of straightening. My hair would've been a frizzy mess for real with out oils. Matter of fact, my hair gets straighter when using oils. Never used a heat protectants and really don't see a need to since my hair bounces right back after a press/flatiron.

Grease/oils for flatironing/pressing for me all the way, baby!

The reason why many people in the past used oils was because of how straight the oils get the hair. Now several people have found a variety of serums that work that will get their hair just as straight without using oils and with offering them the heat protection that the oils do not offer. But a lot happens at a microscopic level that we cannot see until later when it has manifested to the physical (for instance, if you use and love a product for months while sticking with the same regimen and then all of a sudden you notice this product is drying your hair out, that doesn't mean it just started sucking the moisture out of or stripping your hair, but it has stripped the other layers enough so damage has reached the physical level). Even a lot of people who responded in this thread and others like it commented on their hair being damaged when using oils to press. To me, it's kinda like playing Russian Roulette with your hair: you never know which chamber in the gun contains the bullet and you never know which day will cause the damage to manifest, so I still encourage people to use heat protectants.

You have really pretty hair and I would hate to see any damage in the long run. You cannot see which bonds were broken or not in your hair until it has accumulated into damage, which is a collective destruction of bonds on a largescale basis.

Just think of it this way: viruses for instance are dangerous, even deadly. However, you can be exposed to some viruses in your life and may not catch them. That doesn't mean you are necessarily immune to catching a particular virus and that it won't make you sick later on in your life, though. I wouldn't purposely tell people to expose themselves to viruses just because they may not get sick from all of them, and thus, I wouldn't purposely tell anyone not to use a heat protectant just because they may not have noticed damage in the past.

angellazette · Feb 5, 2007

navsegda said:
In that case, I'd wait a couple days or until the next wash day altogether. I don't know how heavily you apply your coconut oil to your hair. But I never flat iron anyway except right after I've washed and conditioned (flat ironing "dirty" hair is also bad) and the only time I ever use oil is either before a wash or after I've flat ironed.

Well I'll switch it around and see (serum then oil). I did use it after putting in my leave in and coconut oil and it left my hair really soft. Didn't flat iron though.

Amarech · Feb 5, 2007

Awwwww mannnn!!!!!

erplexed Well back to the drawing board. So does Paul Mitchell or Aveda have a good leave in?

I love my almond oil!!! Right now I'm using Paul Mitchell "The Conditioner" as a leave in but I still add a good amount of almond oil before that. Oh well.
Maybe I'll try silk therapy or something.

I don't get it. If my hair looks good, feels good, growing and retaining length is it that bad?

NeeSee · Feb 5, 2007

Do what's best for your hair.

Why Is It BAD to use OIL when PRESSING/FLAT IRONING?

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