Cindy Trimm

momi

Well-Known Member
I'm confused. So we are NOT allowed to speak things in the present tense?

I use it as a means to help me build faith and focus on tasks I need to go to complete my goals.

Although it is a popular notion - it is God who is able to speak things into existence and not us.

(as it is written: “I have made thee a father of many nations”), in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead and calleth those things which are not, as though they were. Romans 4:17

We can remind Him of His promises given through the Holy Scriptures trusting that He will withhold no good thing from those who walk uprightly.
 

BostonMaria

Well-Known Member
I'm confused. So we are NOT allowed to speak things in the present tense? I use it as a means to help me build faith and focus on tasks I need to go to complete my goals.

I guess some people here don't think so, but I respectfully disagree.

Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. (Mark 11:24 NKJV)
 

momi

Well-Known Member
Some people? Lol I guess that's me.

God does hear and answer prayers - however those answers are always conditional and based on His will. As a loving Father, He will never give us something that is outside of His will for our lives or outside of His timing. Also, many prayers are asked amiss.

James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
This is what The Bible says:

And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. (Mark 11:22-24 KJV)

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13 KJV)

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1 KJV)
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
I use to hear that in the Word church too. That we (children of God) are gods (lowercase/little g), in the sense that we are made in His image and He has given us the power to be his sons. This is based on John 10:34 and Psalm 82:6 and that verse that says "To as many as received Him, to them gave He power to be called the sons of God. Even to them that believe on His name". What was the context in which she said it? To be honest, I find it hard to identify a church I am 100% with. The church I attend now, the Pastor shames women. Just this morning the Pastor (white man) vehemently said that everything that has gone wrong and the Fall of man happened because ONE WOMAN (he stressed it) couldn't keep herself from eating the fruit although she was told NOT TO. When he goes on his rants about modesty (Pentecostals are big on that) and looking like a Christian, he only talks about women. I understand that we have more flexibility in dress than men but still:sad:. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't raise her in this church. He says other stuff, continuously call ppl nicompoops/stupid etc that I try not be offended by...but he says good stuff too. And the good stuff helps me grow spiritually. Sorry to go off on a tangent.... :lol: I said all that to say, and it's your personal choice, sometimes Pastors will say stuff that we don't agree with but prayerfully consider before you write them off :yep:. They could be wrong about one thing, hopefully God will allow them to see their error and they can acknowledge the mistake and continue to speak the truth. I humanize preachers because my Dad's a pastor and my mom preaches. They are godly people but they ain't perfect :lol:. I also see their heart for God and I'm witnessing their continued spiritual growth :yep:.

Just remember to Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. (Proverbs 4:23 NIV)
 

Sosa

Well-Known Member
I'm confused. So we are NOT allowed to speak things in the present tense?

I use it as a means to help me build faith and focus on tasks I need to go to complete my goals.

I really don't know. To be honest, I still don't completely get why "name it, claim it" (don't like that term tho') gets such a bad rap. As long as it is lined up with God's will/promises, is there really a problem?
The bible says by His stripes I am healed, so Word of Faith says...claim your healing and speak it into existence. It may just be the finances part that people have a problem with tho.
"Name it, claim it"/Prosperity preaching/Word of Faith etc. comes off very LOA-y to some.
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
I'm confused. So we are NOT allowed to speak things in the present tense? I use it as a means to help me build faith and focus on tasks I need to go to complete my goals.

What does the bible say? Some people speak the Word of God but aren't anywhere near God.

“ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ” (Matthew 15:8, 9 NIV)

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8, 9 KJV)

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1 KJV)
 

BostonMaria

Well-Known Member
Some people? Lol I guess that's me. God does hear and answer prayers - however those answers are always conditional and based on His will. As a loving Father, He will never give us something that is outside of His will for our lives or outside of His timing. Also, many prayers are asked amiss. James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.

You're not the only person on the Christian forum to say this. This topic has been discussed in the past. I wasn't referring to you specifically, but if this is how you feel you are entitled to your feelings. If I offended you, I'm sorry and that wasn't my intention.

I believe that if we have a need and it is God's will, then we (as his children) have a right to ask Him.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
I guess some people here don't think so, but I respectfully disagree.

Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. (Mark 11:24 NKJV)

Question: For those who say that they 'Believe' the Word of God, what are these 'same' people practicing and participating with the LOA, mixing with those who do not have trust, respect nor regard for God?

What's the point? Is God not enough?

I truly want to know why this is?
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
I'm getting over the flu and battling fatigue but I plan to come back to this thread. Be patient w/ me please :)
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
I'm getting over the flu and battling fatigue but I plan to come back to this thread. Be patient w/ me please :)

Please get your rest, drink your fluids and don't mind this thread. You can start a new one for the new year.

I thank God right now for your total healing, in Jesus' Name, Amen. :giveheart:
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
What does the bible say? Some people speak the Word of God but aren't anywhere near God.

“ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ” (Matthew 15:8, 9 NIV)

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8, 9 KJV)

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1 KJV)

Your entire post, especially the bolded is the perfect example of those practicing the LOA. Is God not enough? :nono:

No man (or woman) can serve two masters...

If God be God, serve God! If baal be god, serve baal!

Choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my House (family) we will serve the Lord. We either choose God or satan's baal. Which is it?
 
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momi

Well-Known Member
You're not the only person on the Christian forum to say this. This topic has been discussed in the past. I wasn't referring to you specifically, but if this is how you feel you are entitled to your feelings. If I offended you, I'm sorry and that wasn't my intention.

I believe that if we have a need and it is God's will, then we (as his children) have a right to ask Him.

No offense taken whatsoever - I am enjoying the discussion. :yep:
 

BostonMaria

Well-Known Member
Question: For those who say that they 'Believe' the Word of God, what are these 'same' people practicing and participating with the LOA, mixing with those who do not have trust, respect nor regard for God? What's the point? Is God not enough? I truly want to know why this is?

I guess I see it differently. Of course God is enough and all I need. If I say positive affirmations they are based on the Word. If I pray for healing, it's in Jesus' name. I have Cindy's book and it's actually a very good read. I would rather read a book on positive affirmations written by a Christian, than read something by (for example) Wayne Dyer.

LOA authors talk about "the universe" and bla bla bla. I know that "the universe" is really the Holy Spirit. If these non-Christian authors want to take what's in the bible and call it something else, well that's on them. I can eat the meat and spit out the bones.

I have a lot of respect for you shimmie so I'm not dismissing what you're saying.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
I guess I see it differently. Of course God is enough and all I need. If I say positive affirmations they are based on the Word. If I pray for healing, it's in Jesus' name. I have Cindy's book and it's actually a very good read. I would rather read a book on positive affirmations written by a Christian, than read something by (for example) Wayne Dyer.

LOA authors talk about "the universe" and bla bla bla.


I know that "the universe" is really the Holy Spirit.


If these non-Christian authors want to take what's in the bible and call it something else, well that's on them. I can eat the meat and spit out the bones.

I have a lot of respect for you shimmie so I'm not dismissing what you're saying.

I respect you as well Maria... :yep:

Regarding the bolded, Is this a typo or is this what LOA states about the Holy Spirit? I want to make sure that the Holy Spirit is properly represented, that's all.

Again, I respect you as well, however there is no mix with God and LOA.
 

Divine.

Well-Known Member
This thread has definitely brought up several questions for me. I always claim God's promises over my life. If He said it, I believe it.

I think there is a huge difference between claiming that you will be rich or some other worldly affirmation and reaffirming a promise from God that has already been written.

Let's say I get diagnosed with cancer. The only thing keeping me afloat is by remembering how Jesus healed many individuals during His time on Earth. Is stating that God can/will heal me from this affliction practicing LOA? There are several instances in the bible where Jesus noted a person's faith before He healed them. Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly. Matthew 15:28

If I am stating and believing I will be healed, it's because I know God is a healer. Not because I think God is some magic genie ready to grant my next wish. I think this is the grey area that causes the debate. LOA users are believing in themselves to bring things to pass. I am nothing without God. God didn't promise us husbands, cars, fame, or none of this worldly nonsense we put on a pedestal. But He did promise me everlasting life, protection, healing, strength, and abundance (if I sow what is good).

I am still pretty new in my walk with God, but he has blessed me discernment. Someone please correct me if I am misinformed in any way!
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
This thread has definitely brought up several questions for me. I always claim God's promises over my life. If He said it, I believe it.

I think there is a huge difference between claiming that you will be rich or some other worldly affirmation and reaffirming a promise from God that has already been written.

Let's say I get diagnosed with cancer. The only thing keeping me afloat is by remembering how Jesus healed many individuals during His time on Earth. Is stating that God can/will heal me from this affliction practicing LOA? There are several instances in the bible where Jesus noted a person's faith before He healed them. Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly. Matthew 15:28

If I am stating and believing I will be healed, it's because I know God is a healer. Not because I think God is some magic genie ready to grant my next wish. I think this is the grey area that causes the debate. LOA users are believing in themselves to bring things to pass. I am nothing without God. God didn't promise us husbands, cars, fame, or none of this worldly nonsense we put on a pedestal. But He did promise me everlasting life, protection, healing, strength, and abundance (if I sow what is good).

I am still pretty new in my walk with God, but he has blessed me discernment. Someone please correct me if I am misinformed in any way!

I'm currently traveling so my posts will be somewhat limited, but in response to your post regarding God's promises:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 1:4

If you are steadfast with God's Word and His Word 'ONLY', you're not in sin nor opposition to God's Word.

However, Christians who are mixed in with the practices and mixed in with those who practice this LOA foolishness is not acceptable and it's God's Word which warns us of such.

It is God that we are to be in communion with, not some demonic structure of the 'universe', where it's the principalities and spiritual wickedness from high places that these LOA worshippers are bowing down and giving homage to. They are purposely and With Purpose ignoring God and giving the 'universe' --- which is not God or the Holy Spirit --- the glory.

God's Word says that in the 'last days' there would be a 'turning away' from the Truth and from Him who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. LOA is literally turning away from God and His Word... the Truth. It is a dismissal of God's existence and His Divine Holiness. For a Christian it clearly states that God is not enough. :nono:
 

BostonMaria

Well-Known Member
This thread has definitely brought up several questions for me. I always claim God's promises over my life. If He said it, I believe it. I think there is a huge difference between claiming that you will be rich or some other worldly affirmation and reaffirming a promise from God that has already been written. Let's say I get diagnosed with cancer. The only thing keeping me afloat is by remembering how Jesus healed many individuals during His time on Earth. Is stating that God can/will heal me from this affliction practicing LOA? There are several instances in the bible where Jesus noted a person's faith before He healed them. Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly. Matthew 15:28 If I am stating and believing I will be healed, it's because I know God is a healer. Not because I think God is some magic genie ready to grant my next wish. I think this is the grey area that causes the debate. LOA users are believing in themselves to bring things to pass. I am nothing without God. God didn't promise us husbands, cars, fame, or none of this worldly nonsense we put on a pedestal. But He did promise me everlasting life, protection, healing, strength, and abundance (if I sow what is good). I am still pretty new in my walk with God, but he has blessed me discernment. Someone please correct me if I am misinformed in any way!

This is what I wanted to say, but you said it more eloquently.

I started with loa back in 2003, but later on when I started to go to a bible based church I realized I was missing the word of God. I "manifested" things by staying focused and finding the scripture to back up whatever it is I needed. For example, graduate school was tough but I held on to psalm 2 and asked God for knowledge. My affirmation was that I would graduate from the university and I'd use this scripture to back it up. I know it's God's will because He wants us to pursue knowledge. I graduated by the grace of God. There were many nights where I thought I wouldn't make it.

Back in June I thanked God in advance for the new job. I had to believe He would bless me. I said I'd have favor and wrote down the things in a job that I'd like to have. I also backed it up with scripture because God will supply all of my needs. I had the job offer 4 weeks later. I walk by faith, not by sight.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
Am I reading where professing Christians are practicing LOA???? No.... I need to make time to come back and talk about how utterly wicked that stuff is.
 

Sosa

Well-Known Member
Much of her message is word of faith type stuff and the origins of those teachings are satanic.

I think it is obvious that LOA practised by non-Christians is witchcraft. There is no God in it.

It appears to me the debate is whether/why Word of Faith and Charismatic movements are also witchcraft. Aren't they just speaking His promises into existence? They do stress that it has to be in line with God's will.



According to wiki:
Word of Faith (also known as Word-Faith or simply Faith) is a worldwide Christian movement that teaches Christians can access the power of faith or fear through speech. Its distinctive teachings are found on the radio, internet, television, and in many Christian churches.It shares some similarities with Pentecostal and charismatic believers. The basic doctrine preached is that of wealth and health through positive confession.

The Word of Faith movement has many distinctive teachings including physical, emotional, financial, relational, and spiritual healing or prosperity for any who has the right belief filled confession.[8] The movement emphasizes choosing to speak the promises and provisions that the speaker wants, as an act of faith and agreement with God's plans and purposes. They believe this is what Jesus meant in Mark 11:22-23[bible 1], when he said believers shall have whatsoever they say and pray with faith. The term word of faith itself is derived from the biblical passage Romans 10:8[bible 2] which speaks of "the word of faith that we preach."
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
I think it is obvious that LOA practised by non-Christians is witchcraft. There is no God in it.

It appears to me the debate is whether/why Word of Faith and Charismatic movements are also witchcraft. Aren't they just speaking His promises into existence? They do stress that it has to be in line with God's will.

According to wiki:
Word of Faith (also known as Word-Faith or simply Faith) is a worldwide Christian movement that teaches Christians can access the power of faith or fear through speech. Its distinctive teachings are found on the radio, internet, television, and in many Christian churches.It shares some similarities with Pentecostal and charismatic believers. The basic doctrine preached is that of wealth and health through positive confession.

The Word of Faith movement has many distinctive teachings including physical, emotional, financial, relational, and spiritual healing or prosperity for any who has the right belief filled confession.[8] The movement emphasizes choosing to speak the promises and provisions that the speaker wants, as an act of faith and agreement with God's plans and purposes. They believe this is what Jesus meant in Mark 11:22-23[bible 1], when he said believers shall have whatsoever they say and pray with faith. The term word of faith itself is derived from the biblical passage Romans 10:8[bible 2] which speaks of "the word of faith that we preach."

All LOA is witchcraft. The word of faith movement/name it and claim it is abracadabra. It's occult in its very origins. You can't try to add scripture to make it Biblical because it's the exact same thing. I used to be into the LOA and I came out of a word of faith church by the grace of Christ. I know what I'm talking about. I'll be back.
 

BostonMaria

Well-Known Member
All LOA is witchcraft. The word of faith movement/name it and claim it is abracadabra. It's occult in its very origins. You can't try to add scripture to make it Biblical because it's the exact same thing. I used to be into the LOA and I came out of a word of faith church by the grace of Christ. I know what I'm talking about. I'll be back.

I disagree, but interested in seeing your response.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
This is what I wanted to say, but you said it more eloquently.

I started with loa back in 2003, but later on when I started to go to a bible based church I realized I was missing the word of God. I "manifested" things by staying focused and finding the scripture to back up whatever it is I needed. For example, graduate school was tough but I held on to psalm 2 and asked God for knowledge. My affirmation was that I would graduate from the university and I'd use this scripture to back it up. I know it's God's will because He wants us to pursue knowledge. I graduated by the grace of God. There were many nights where I thought I wouldn't make it.

Back in June I thanked God in advance for the new job. I had to believe He would bless me. I said I'd have favor and wrote down the things in a job that I'd like to have. I also backed it up with scripture because God will supply all of my needs. I had the job offer 4 weeks later. I walk by faith, not by sight.

Maria, God's Word will always manifest it's self, therefore there is no need for you to be involved with the LOA. For one to say, "I" manifested" -- is witchcraft. To say that you found scripture to back up what 'you' wanted to manifest is not God's will nor His operation, instead it is 'your' doing, not His...which again is witchcraft.

We have to be so careful with this 'Word' application which is used by Christians to justify the practice of LOA in a Christian's life.

Believing God's promises is completely different from practicing and placing one's faith in LOA which is a counterfeit and idolatry. We cannot serve the two as they are not 'One' with God.

"... In Lucifer’s fallen state he was still known as a light bringer, daystar and a son of the morning. These are all counterfeits to the real thing.

We are the genuine and when we become an early riser to command the morning and capture the day, we displace the devil."


Isaiah 14:12
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
I disagree, but interested in seeing your response.

Have you researched the origins of it? You can't find the word of faith, name it and claim it doctrine anywhere in the Bible without Scripture twisting. The teachings are satanic and come from satanic origins and was mixed with the Bible. It is not ok just because they use the Bible.
 

HWAY

Well-Known Member
Shimmie and MrsHaseeb, help us understand. I have witnessed people healed through intercession and have had had many prayers answered. I do not know about LOA but I have "stood on faith, praised in advance and reminded God of his promises" when facing difficulties. Is the problem when Christians attempt to reach goals through our power. For instance, I am a nurse and was invited several time to learn therapeutic touch. The focus of the teaching is that "I' would heal my patients. I spoke with a mature Christian sister who once practiced witchcraft and she advised me against it. She also advised me to pray and ask the holy spirit to guide me since I do not wish to anything that would harm my relationship with God.
It makes me think of when Moses struck the rock at Meribah and failed to give God glory . Numbers 20:10-13.
 

BostonMaria

Well-Known Member
Maria, God's Word will always manifest it's self, therefore there is no need for you to be involved with the LOA. For one to say, "I" manifested" -- is witchcraft. To say that you found scripture to back up what 'you' wanted to manifest is not God's will nor His operation, instead it is 'your' doing, not His...which again is witchcraft. We have to be so careful with this 'Word' application which is used by Christians to justify the practice of LOA in a Chhlristian's life. Believing God's promises is completely different from practicing and placing one's faith in LOA which is a counterfeit and idolatry. We cannot serve the two as they are not 'One' with God. "... In Lucifer’s fallen state he was still known as a light bringer, daystar and a son of the morning. These are all counterfeits to the real thing. We are the genuine and when we become an early riser to command the morning and capture the day, we displace the devil." Isaiah 14:12

If you go back to my post I said manifested in quotes. I know that it's all God not me. I know his promises for us and I hold on to his word. I know that is not witch craft. These loa took something that's Christian and ran with it. Now we are calling something that was ours satanic. Kinda like how people see meditating as satanic when it was originally ours to begin with.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I will bow out of this thread respectfully. I'm glad we can discuss calmly without it getting messy. Wishing everyone a happy new year!
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
I just want to clarify that no one is being disparaged regarding this topic. The truth is simply being exposed regarding the false god LOA and being aware of how God's Word can be mis-used.

We are to believe God's promises, God is indeed our Healer, Our Provider, Our Protector, Our Leader and Our Guide and for these and more we honor Him and acknowledge Him as the true and ONLY giver of these graces and blessings.

However there is a misuse of God's Word which we need to be aware of. I cannot change what a person is determined to do. However, I cannot sit back and not expose the lies of satan.
 

Divine.

Well-Known Member
For the record, I don't practice LOA :look: I am just making sure that my actions aren't in line with LOA doctrine.

ETA: Shimmie you just answered my question in your post :yep: I read God's Word for what it is, not to fit my own desires and needs.
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
If you go back to my post I said manifested in quotes. I know that it's all God not me. I know his promises for us and I hold on to his word. I know that is not witch craft. These loa took something that's Christian and ran with it. Now we are calling something that was ours satanic. Kinda like how people see meditating as satanic when it was originally ours to begin with.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I will bow out of this thread respectfully. I'm glad we can discuss calmly without it getting messy. Wishing everyone a happy new year!

BostonMaria, thank you. I just have two questions:

1. If one believes God's Word than why are they still involved with LOA and those who practice LOA? LOA is still witchcraft.

2. Will you be able to explain what you shared regarding the Holy Spirit and the universe in your post upwards? I wanted to make sure that I understood what was shared.

Thanks in advance. :yep:
 
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