misogynistic "friend"

I have been friends with this older guy in the church for a few years, and it seems that as we have gotten closer that he has revealed a lot about himself. To be honest, he has been quite irritating to me, here are just a few things that he has done or said that is getting to me:

1. He trains people at my church to have outreach small groups ( in these group we meet with believers and nonbelievers and out of the group new leaders are born to start their own group or do some other ministry) So I came in at the very end of one of these groups. At the time he didn't have time to train so he just gave me some lessons and I trained myself. Now after successfully training others and being successful in ministry throughout the area, he tells people that I was apart of his group, and how he trained me, etc. Now this is what I noticed, he has made entire groups restart or dropped projects when a guy is curious about be trained

2. When I accomplished training people and they themselves went on to do wonderful works for the Lord. He stated "Oh, I am shocked that your group stayed together, when women do this type of work, it falls apart". Then he was doubly shocked when he found out that a ministry in another area was trained by me, even though I told him about it a long time ago. Again stating that women don't do ministry well.

3. I have a vision for an organization ( had it since a small child), I shared it with him in hopes that he could help me get things started in the legal aspect. He did somewhat and then just dropped it. Some time later, he meets this guy and shares my vision with the guy, now they are starting a similar organization. My friend comes to me and wants me to join their group, they want me to essentially take my idea and give it to them and to work under them. This friend of mine who wasn't able to really help me with my idea, was able to find a lawyer to help the guy with "his" organization. I don't know why he couldn't just tell the guy about me and we work together with what I already have so far. I'm trying to swallow my pride on this one but that was a dream I had since as long as I can remember, it's my life goal.

4. Even though I have helped him along the way with many projects and such, it's like I don't count as being any help because I am a woman. He constantly states things like, " He has no help", " He has no one he can count on to train people", "No one this or that" etc. Then he would notice I was there or something and say, " I mean I need men, I need men to work with, I want to train all guys". I do agree that more male leadership is needed in the area we are currently in but it seems like the women are overlooked and he focuses on the guys in the group even when there is a woman who is more inspired and ready to go to the next level

5. He doesn't believe that black woman can have hair, period. He weave checked me, even though he have seen my hair grow from BC to WL. I am natural, 4a and I was wearing my hair in a french roll, someone complimented me on my hair and he blurted, "that's your hair" he smirks, then proceeds to poke his hands in my french roll. I have never had a friend/family do that to me, especially in front of someone erplexed. He then states that its " RAREEE to see a black with hair". The thing is, 90% of the black women at the church wears their natural hair and the average length is BSL. He probably just assumes they are all wearing weaves and wigs


6. We were having a conversation, and the topic came up about marriage and premarital sex. I mentioned I was virgin, which he knows already. So he begins to talk about a Lolo Jones or Lola (an athlete apparently). He states that he was surprised that she was a virgin because she used to be homeless, and he is shocked that with her being light-skin that some man didn't try to rape her. Then he states that her team mates are mad with her because she is exotic looking and the media didn't pay attention to the "regular nappy black girls". He is saying that it wouldn't be a surprise for a dark skin women to be a virgin and that a light skin one to be a virgin or have not been raped as surprising... I ended that call and haven't spoken to him since. Btw I'm natural (4a), a woman, dark skin ( tyra banks complexion), and a virgin. And I don't agree with his victim blaming when it comes to rape, his statements are disgusting to me, I was so upset I said a quick goodbye and hung up.

I don't know what to do with this "friendship". He is such a talker and I think if I address my concerns to him that he will tell other people. To be honest, I would like to distant myself from him, and I have no idea about what to do concerning the organization. I don't know if I should go along with them or do my own thing with different people. Please help

He is no friend from what you have stated. Friends don't go out of their way to put you down. The more you continue to be around such people, the more you will normalize it in your mind.

No to the organization. It was your idea and vision. Do your own thing. Just be more careful with whom you decide to confide in.

Being cordial with this man should be enough, just because he is in the church that doesn't make him a friend. He has issues not to mention his obvious problems with women.

If he wants to be a mentor to men (which is a bad idea) then that's one thing, but he shouldn't downplay your contributions. He is not a friend.

It is so very obvious that he feels very threatened by you... So very obvious and so very threatened. Very

Your Ministry Gifts excel his works and rather than encourage you, he is making every effort to discourage you. He is not misogynistic, he is afraid that what he prides in himself is being eclipsed -- overshadowed by your Gifts.

Soooo dear one...what shall we say to these things? Dearest One, what shall we say?

Literally.... If God be for you... If God be for you... Not this man, but if God be for you, then who dare be against you?

You need nothing from him. God is still moving you forward in the work and in Ministry of which you are called. God will continue to complete His perfect work in you.

Now if this brother dares to touch your hair again, it's on

I will post my thoughts when I get on a computer.

phynestone said:

He is no friend from what you have stated. Friends don't go out of their way to put you down. The more you continue to be around such people, the more you will normalize it in your mind.

No to the organization. It was your idea and vision. Do your own thing. Just be more careful with whom you decide to confide in.

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Iwanthealthyhair67 said:

Being cordial with this man should be enough, just because he is in the church that doesn't make him a friend. He has issues not to mention his obvious problems with women.

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Galadriel said:

If he wants to be a mentor to men (which is a bad idea) then that's one thing, but he shouldn't downplay your contributions. He is not a friend.

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@phynestone, @Iwanthealthyhair67 and @Galadriel....

Did I read this right?

So he begins to talk about a Lolo Jones or Lola (an athlete apparently). He states that he was surprised that she was a virgin because she used to be homeless, and he is shocked that with her being light-skin that some man didn't try to rape her.

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Then he states that her team mates are mad with her because she is exotic looking and the media didn't pay attention to the "regular nappy black girls".

He is saying that it wouldn't be a surprise for a dark skin women to be a virgin and that a light skin one to be a virgin or have not been raped as surprising...

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I initially read this post while commuting home on the train. I didn't read this last part of the post as I wanted to respond and encourage our OP.

He should NOT be in Church leadership. And as a woman, I would not be anywhere around him. I do not like his senseless perceptions regarding rape. He's not a safe person to be in the company of, let alone a friendship.

Tyra Banks is dark? Anyhoo, doesn't matter about the color of people. He's rude and if you can, report him to his superiors. What he's said and done is wrong. And don't ever pick up the phone to him again unless you have to because of the organization. Email only? He's disgusting.

JaneBond007 said:

Tyra Banks is dark? Anyhoo, doesn't matter about the color of people. He's rude and if you can, report him to his superiors. What he's said and done is wrong. And don't ever pick up the phone to him again unless you have to because of the organization.

Email only? He's disgusting.

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Not even an email... That makes her 'submissive' to him, when instead she has to be dismissive on all counts.

He texted me today, I didn't respond. I know he will call me this week, sigh. I don't know if I can talk with him without getting upset yet, what he said regarding sexual abuse is so repulsive to me. I've mentored young women who have been abused and I can't put into words, he struck a nerve, I can't. His statements about rape was the last straw.

The organization situation is such a headache to me, I am going to continue to pray concerning that. He is on the board, and there are now four other people. They have me as their contact regarding one aspect of the organization

He doesn't have any real superiors. We were working with a different church but he dropped it because a guy wanted to do a different project elsewhere and another guy wanted him to help him with a ministry as well.

The Bible says to be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Thank all of you for your responses and encouragement. I would love to just ignore him but I don't think I can do that right away. To be honest, I am not sure how responsive he will be if I bring up my concerns to him...

ETA: I know that I will still see him around and may even have to work along side him (depending on if I stay with their organization). Being cordial seems more realistic, I think he feels close enough to me to show his ugliness, maybe if I made him feel otherwise he would leave me alone and keep things surface.

Haddasah said:

The Bible says to be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Thank all of you for your responses and encouragement. I would love to just ignore him but I don't think I can do that right away. To be honest, I am not sure how responsive he will be if I bring up my concerns to him...

ETA: I know that I will still see him around and may even have to work along side him (depending on if I stay with their organization). Being cordial seems more realistic, I think he feels close enough to me to show his ugliness, maybe if I made him feel otherwise he would leave me alone and keep things surface.

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Luke 21:19-- In your patience possess ye your souls.

Take control of your soul. Take control, which means you need to leave, this spirit of control that this man wants to take of you. He is out to steal your Gift, if nothing more to tear your spirit down, sift you as wheat; make you feel incapable of existing without his control or influence.

Sweetheart, God has called us to 'Peace'. This man is not called of God and to continue to be in association with this is unwise and not the will of God. You owe this man nothing, but to God EVERYTHING.

This is not the only Ministry for you to grow and to be effective in the Gift that God has bestowed upon you. Study the 'Walk of Jesus'. Although He was humble, filled with loving compassion, no one controlled His Ministry except the Holy Spirit. He allowed no man to steal His crown.

"All to Jesus... surrender all." To Jesus and the Holy Spirit, be controlled. Not the selfishness of man.

Also, you may be able to go online to your cell phone provider and block his calls and texts from coming through to your phone.

God Bless you, @Haddasah -- 'Queen Esther' -- God ruled her heart, not Haman.

Shimmie said:

Luke 21:19-- In your patience possess ye your souls.

Take control of your soul. Take control, which means you need to leave, this spirit of control that this man wants to take of you. He is out to steal your Gift, if nothing more to tear your spirit down, sift you as wheat; make you feel incapable of existing without his control or influence.

Sweetheart, God has called us to 'Peace'. This man is not called of God and to continue to be in association with this is unwise and not the will of God. You owe this man nothing, but to God EVERYTHING.

This is not the only Ministry for you to grow and to be effective in the Gift that God has bestowed upon you. Study the 'Walk of Jesus'. Although He was humble, filled with loving compassion, no one controlled His Ministry except the Holy Spirit. He allowed no man to steal His crown.

"All to Jesus... surrender all." To Jesus and the Holy Spirit, be controlled. Not the selfishness of man.

Also, you may be able to go online to your cell phone provider and block his calls and texts from coming through to your phone.

God Bless you, @Haddasah -- 'Queen Esther' -- God ruled her heart, not Haman.

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I know that God does have something else in store for me, I am open to whatever His will is.
I'm praying for wisdom, I want to distance myself without any eyebrows raises.

Haddasah said:

I know that God does have something else in store for me, I am open to whatever His will is.
I'm praying for wisdom,

I want to distance myself without any eyebrows raises.

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Regarding the bolded, if that's what you're waiting for, you'll never leave. No matter what 'we' do, there will always be opposition... always.

This man touched you (he touched your hair inappropriately); he did so to humiliate you. This is a serious red flag of being abusive towards women; and his thoughts / comments regarding rape is a serious mental disorder.

To remain there is teaching him that you are submissive to whatever he demands. God hasn't called you to be around this disorder. This man is very sick and should not be tolerated.

Look, you didn't come to us randomly, to share this issue nor did you come to simply vent... inside you know something is very wrong and you need to get away; if for no other reason than to protect your dignity as a Woman of God. No women is required to put up with such denouncement of her being.

I'm hope that I do not come across as harsh, my concern is for you as a woman and for your own safety.

I've been in the Ministry for a long, long time, and not as a 'Church Goer', but fully active in Ministry.

I've seen situations like this more often than I care to admit to and they never end well. Men like this are all about controlling and dare not a woman try to 'show him up'. They want to 'lead' and will do any and everything to make sure that they are the focus of the Ministry...the leader. I've ministered to so many women who were hurt physically, they were sexually abused and their spirits were wounded so badly that they stopping flowing in the gifts that God had called them to.

My prayer is that the fear leaves and you will be allowed to move away from this. God will take care of you.

From Proverbs 23...

When you sit down to eat with a ruler,
observe carefully what is before you,

....for he is like one who is inwardly calculating.

“Eat and drink!” he says to you,

but his heart is not with you.

Haddasah:

This man is not your friend! Please move away from him immediately. He needs your prayer but not your company. What came to me as I read this is that this man has a spirit of pride on him. It is strong! This man is abusive. I'm not certain that this means physically (although it wouldn't surprise me), but he is definitely verbally abusive. He is not a man in the way God directs men to behave. One of the reasons God placed men here is to protect women...to be a covering for them. He didn't place them here to steal their business ideas, tear them down with his words, and try to push their light under a bushel. This man needs your prayer but not your company any longer. Please take heed. The Word says that we "know them by their fruit". This man's fruit is rotten. His heart needs healing! Only God can fix him.

My dear Haddasah,

I do not post often, but I too get the flee vibe from this situation.
This man is not your friend. He has already cross the physical boundary with you, so there is no telling what he might or might not do next. He does not respect you or your body or a woman right to have physical boundaries with a man.
So my advice is to flee is very presence.
Don't be alone with him or entertain him in any kind of way. He is dangerous.

This is not a matter of what people will think or avoiding raising brows or gossip, it's a case of protecting yourself and your physical, emotonial integrity. Make your safety a priority above his or your reputation.

Be blessed. Be encouraged. The Lord is victorious of any and every situation. Trust in Him and move on.

My question is if this man has superiors in the church. If so, please utilize that hierarchy and report him. It does us women no good to hide in plain sight. Bring him to responsibility for his words and actions by exposing him to the pastor and others over the organization. I was confused as to whether OP had to report to him or not.

JaneBond007 said:

My question is if this man has superiors in the church. If so, please utilize that hierarchy and report him. It does us women no good to hide in plain sight. Bring him to responsibility for his words and actions by exposing him to the pastor and others over the organization. I was confused as to whether OP had to report to him or not.

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No I do not have to report to him, I helped him with his ministry.

I will not be approaching him about it alone but with one of the pastors that he really respects. I think he has a lot of issues about women, he never married because all of the women he dated had something wrong with them. He shared some of the 'wrongs' with me and TBH some were at least to me very minor.

We had the meeting, the pastor was the mediator (the pastor spoke with him before and after the meeting when I wasn't there as well).

Essentially, he stated what I thought he would....everything was "taken out of context" he stated that he was sorry and he did those thing without malice and unconsciously

The pastor told him that it would be wise to take a break from ministry, because the things that he said/did hints at something deeper going on in his heart (since he states everything was done unconsciously) and he needs to work on those things before they become more harmful (he counselled him mostly when I left). The pastor really can't make him stop his leadership position because he isn't listed in any church, he does his own ministry in homes but sometimes will use a church building for the group lessons, this pastor was one of those that let him use the church building. He won't be able to use that building anymore and the pastor offered him counseling services with the church psychologist and himself.

The meeting was on Monday, he calls me Tuesday. He want things to be restored between us, and he miss my voice, and he didn't like that people were asking him about me and he couldn't tell them about my whereabouts. I told him that he should listen to the advice of the pastor.

A few posters mentioned that he sounds controlling, and honestly I see it now. I felt uncomfortable talking to him on the phone as well.

Haddasah said:

. He won't be able to use that building anymore and the pastor offered him counseling services with the church psychologist and himself.

T

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I don't know why this made me laugh out loud.

Haddasah said:

We had the meeting, the pastor was the mediator (the pastor spoke with him before and after the meeting when I wasn't there as well).

Essentially, he stated what I thought he would....everything was "taken out of context" he stated that he was sorry and he did those thing without malice and unconsciously

The pastor told him that it would be wise to take a break from ministry, because the things that he said/did hints at something deeper going on in his heart (since he states everything was done unconsciously) and he needs to work on those things before they become more harmful (he counselled him mostly when I left). The pastor really can't make him stop his leadership position because he isn't listed in any church, he does his own ministry in homes but sometimes will use a church building for the group lessDeons, this pastor was one of those that let him use the church building. He won't be able to use that building anymore and the pastor offered him counseling services with the church psychologist and himself.

The meeting was on Monday, he calls me Tuesday. He want things to be restored between us, and he miss my voice, and he didn't like that people were asking him about me and he couldn't tell them about my whereabouts. I told him that he should listen to the advice of the pastor.

A few posters mentioned that he sounds controlling, and honestly I see it now. I felt uncomfortable talking to him on the phone as well.

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Dear Haddasah, thank you for being so open with us. I think you are a very brave woman and I thank God for always protecting you and increasing your blessings and His favour upon you each moment of the day.

I want to thank you from my heart for not becoming offended with any of us when we spoke strong advise and perceptions. You remained open and you chose to obtain a mediator (the Pastor) to intervene. Please take care and please always feel free to come to any of us for support. I mean this. You are embraced and a dear and precious sister. You truly are. You are not in this alone.

Love,
Shimmie

I appreciate the words of wisdom and encouragement that each poster gave, God definitely used you. I couldn't talk to the people I know IRL because they would know who I was talking about. Thank you!!