How do you feel about white women being a part of the natural hair community?

I posted this in the other thread but I figured I'd post it here too.

Everyone is chiming in with the "This is a bait post" and "She wants more followers", but the reality is the followers she's getting won't stay for long. They're going to expect more Felicity (since she's clearly so Pro-Inclusion) and when she doesn't supply....POOF! They'll be gone quicker then they came.

Why? Because a large majority of people follow blogs based on relation. If they can't relate then they most likely won't stay. Nikki may be rolling in the Viva'La'Inclusion dough now, but give it a few months. The "Felicity" lovers will be slowly fade away. She'll then try to appeal to us again, but by then we'll already be long gone. Her blatant disregard for the snippy and downright DUMB remarks made by her seemingly clueless ploy, Sarah a.k.a "The Face of Felicity" has already solidified our decision to withdraw our support.

In the end, Nikki played the hayle out of herself with this mess. She may be winning now, but in the end she'll be losing miserably.....Long term results clearly wasn't her aim.

The thing that kills me the most though is that throughout all of her success (from our following may I add) she seems to have lost essence of what the term "natural" really means for many of us.

Being natural is more then just the acceptance of one's hair texture. Its the total acceptance of oneself overall, sound mind and body. From OUR melanin rich skin, to OUR kinky curly strands. WE ACCEPT IT ALL! We not only transitioned from a chemical, but to deeper sense of what self means. I started my transition with the sole purpose of having chemical free hair, but during these 14 months I have gained far more then just chemical free roots. I've gained a since of Natural Pride! I forgot this feeling, but I am SO happy to have rediscovered it.

My newly (re)discovered kinks and Sarah's forever known waves ARE NOT THE SAME! My kinks have a struggle and history behind it, her's is simply a wave.

So Sarah can miss me with the bun/braid story because it just doesn't compare.

Sorry Felicity(s)!

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EnExitStageLeft said:

I posted this in the other threah but I figured I'd post it here too.

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Slow clap. I really love this post.

curlytwirly06 said:

Slow clap. I really love this post.

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Thanks girl! Its came from the deep. Nikki tried it .

CodeRed said:

Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.

She started with this:



Could you imagine her trying to get a job with her natural hair

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Whoa that first pic!

Honestly as crazy as her hair looks in the first pic ... the fact that she started her career at a time when big curly hair was IN (for White people), she had no problem getting a job, right along with Julia Roberts & Juiliana Margullies, etc

Back at that time I can't recall any natural haired Black actresses getting shine besides Whoppi Goldberg with her locs. Even today, it's still a rare sight... All the popular Black actresses are rocking straight weaves.

Sure those curly haired White actresses may feel pressure to have straighter hair for "mass appeal" so they fry their curls into submission on the daily but their natural curls didn't get in the way of their careers in the past and would not today ... I've seen plenty of curly haired White actresses get shine

They still can't relate to our struggle though and if they wanted to rock their natural curls today, there are soooooo many places they can go to learn how to nurture their curls back to life from years of heat damage & relate to those with the same hair struggles... just not here

White women wear their natural hair all the time, they have not been ostracized, ridiculed and made to feel inferior because of their hair (as a group) I'll be honest, I do not like it. I mean, damn, can WE just have something to ourselves without having to "share"? I don't mind sharing stuff like vitamins and all but let's be real, 99% of the time, they cannot relate to what women of color have to endure for the sake of our hair. Their struggle is not my struggle and mine is not theirs... Just my opinion....

I will say though, I do not mind the White women who care for biracial children and are following the natural hair "movement" in order to better care for their childs hair... I can live with that, otherwise, I am not feeling it.

I do not want to see or interact with white women on this board.

Meh...I am probably one of the few on here who honestly wouldn't care. I have more important things to worry about.

Follow me: Twitter and Facebook: (DrBrandonND)

DayStar said:

I do not want to see or interact with white women on this board.

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Blunt but true.
I am surrounded by white people (not saying it's a bad thing), but majority of my interaction with various black people is online. Boards like this one is where I first learned that there are black nerds out there like me, black whovians, gamers, black beauty tips...etc, etc. Without having to filter through all the stuff geared towards white or other.

Where I am. I get told I'm different from other black girls, constantly was told I'm unique. Yea, as a young black girl who only sees the negative about her race in and outside her family you start to believe it. Boards like this showed me differently. Black women are all different. We are not this one typical stereotype everybody thinks of us, that we are portrayed as.

That's why I think sites like this are important. It's a positive space for black woman, not just hair, but the beauty, diversity, and greatness of being a black women. That's the message I don't want washed away. A place to celebrate us.
Every other race has it. Why do some of us feel like we can't. Like we have to accept everybody into everything we do.

There are 2 Middle Easterners where I work. Nobody bats an eye when they converse together or try to interrupt them or anything, but out of me and two other black females everybody has a million questions, and what are yall doing, when God forbid we stop for a second to chat. Acting like we aren't doing our job. Mind you the white ladies working are loud, vulgar, and have big attitudes. Yet every focuses in on us. The looks don't just come from the White women, but from the middle easterner too.

I can't for the life of me understand why people feel so threatened when they see black people together. And some of you talking about let's include everyone acting like having just 1 or few spaces for ourselves like every other race has, is unfair. Why do some of you feel our race should not be entitled to what every other race gets?

This conversation is interesting on both sides of the topic. I see both sides and I'm newly natural at the age of 56 (chopped off my relaxed hair a little over a year ago thanks to this site and other supportive groups and individuals, including my SO).

Is Natural the new "N-word?" I wonder. Time will tell.

I was watching Oprah's Super Soul Sunday this morning and she was interviewing Anne Lamont, a writer on spiritual topics like prayer and self acceptance. She is a white woman who's natural hair is like ours and has been wearing dreads for some time now. I read some articles she wrote and from 2009 and 2011 are interesting to me.

Be back to post the link when I am in front of my laptop and not on my iPad.

http://www.tortoisegeek.net/files/http___www.salon.com_dec96_lamott961216.pdf

http://www.christianitytoday.com/women/2011/august/christ-and-my-curly-hair.html?paging=off

I am not obligated to make space for anybody's mother. I am sick and tired of people demanding things from me they don't demand from their mother's people. But, when it comes down to it that is where their loyalty lies (as it should. It is their mother).

Not my post, shared by a lady in another forum:

In light of recent events, I thought it would be a good idea to make a thread to list the New Blacks who have sold out so I and others can unsubscribe/ stop giving them clicks. So far I know of:

Curly Nikki (Obvs) ( Also notorious in her early days for stealing content, editing it, and pushing it off as her own a.k.a BGLH drama and her grease post- directly stolen and did not even bother to edit it before passing it off as her own)

Denim Pixie (Quest for the Perfect Curl)
CharyJay
Taren916 (Also a bad example to represent BW, cheated and pregnant by a married man, dissed the wife on social media, been very messy, catty, to her)

The Natural Haven (JC)
NaturalChica
SunKissed Alba
Melshary Arias

People to Support:
Jouelzy
KashTV
FusionofCultures
J. Joelle
HelloLowelo
Chime Edwards (aka Haircrush)
Rinny Riot

Background Information: (LUXE Thank you girl!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by luxe View Post
For those that need background.

Curly Nikki featured a white woman on her blog. Not a big deal when you consider the fact that CN is now owned by NaturallyCurly/Texture Media. However, things reached a fever pitch on Sunday when the white woman got on twitter proclaiming that black women were being exclusive, the natural hair movement was not created for black women, and that the blog is called "CURLY Nikki not BlackNikki". She deleted certain tweets once she got called out, but we have screencaps.

The thread covering everything is here.


There have been numerous articles, blogs, tumblr and facebook posts surrounding her reaction and both sides of the argument.

Some blogs/responses:
http://blackgirllonghair.com/2014/07...is-not-racism/
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2014/...r-white-woman/
http://www.ebony.com/style/white-wom...#axzz36eNXanRx
http://blog.franchesca.net/post/9051...hair-tutorials
http://madamenoire.com/444464/seriou...n-teamnatural/
http://blackgirllonghair.com/2014/07...t-black-women/

Other responses (from twitter, facebook etc) were posted in the thread mentioned.

An Ebony writer (article listed above) chimed in very early in the debate speaking about the importance of the Natural Hair Movement and black women having safe spaces to commune and share experiences, motivations, and stories etc.

Curly Nikki decided to respond (I refuse to link her blog, if you want to read her response it was posted in the thread I mentioned above) and focused on attacking Jamilah (author of the Ebony article) rather than discussing the debate at hand or the ignorant comments that Sarah (the white woman) made. She also tried to claim that her blog was always all inclusive and that she never started it for only black women, though her bio specifically says the opposite.



She basically sold out for white money/clicks/pageviews and is willing to alienate the black women who got her site to the place where it is today.

Melshary, Taren, SunKissAlba and others all spoke out in favor of CN and Sarah. The original thread is worth the read if you actually care, if you just want to be obtuse, kindly find a seat on the sidelines and stay there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Creole Kickin View Post
If anyone does not see the significance in boycotting some of these "gurus", I suggest you do some research.

Some of these "gurus" have auctioned and sold themselves and their brand to the highest bidder. That highest bidder also happens to be white.

So while you're watching and coveting these YTers, thinking they are doing something innovative with the "Natural Hair Movement", they are ushering in a new movement, which is to allow non-blacks in the "Natural Hair Movement". These "gurus" are serving as bridges between black women who by and large, experienced the "Natural Hair Movement" in peace without infiltration from others, and others who seek to infiltrate that space and capitalize on it---and eventually push black women out and either claim the movement for themselves or claim to have revolutionized the movement.

That is why you see these "gurus" aligning themselves with this mess and other non-blacks into the "Natural Hair Movement".


I think the person who wrote this piece, made a good point. They also wrote that it is important to be careful in who you support and allow to become a talking head for your cause and community.

Oh damn. They put ellepixie on blast? What did she do?

idk if this has been posted in this thread but i saw a post about it the other day that i loved

sabaistica said: Since the natural hair community is exclusively black, should I, as a white woman with extremely curly hair and many years of curly problems behind, unsubsribe from countless natural blogs and never chat about hair with my black friends?

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Yes yes you should and after that you should look yourself in the mirror and come to the conclusion that you cannot have everything especially a sliver in a beauty community that is catered to your white ***. Another thing you should do is grow the **** up and get out of here with this ‘whoa is me ****’ like your curly hair equals centuries of deriding you & others like you based on hair you cannot help, ostracizing, cutting, relaxing, burning your scalp, getting sores, boils, and being told to take it not to mention being made to feel inferior just because of the way your hair grows out of your head. Being told that the only thing that makes you pretty is your straight hair, being made to fit into a beauty ideal that is the antithesis of who you are as a person and a woman

You will never be denied for a job because of your hair, you will never have the military put specific protocol on your hair. You will never have someone think you’re dirty because of the way your hair grows, never have the silent whispers, the pulling by strangers, made to be exotic, when you just living your goddamn life. Please miss me with the bull****.

You are the goddamn prototype in the beauty world and you have the nerve to come to me with the faux victimization **** while little Black girls are being suspended for their hair, harassed, and then told to cut it because it doesn’t fit in the spectrum? Grow the **** up and realize that everything is not for you, that you aren’t entitled to **** and that being called frizzy franny or whatever the **** else you were called is a LUXURY, comparatively to the **** Black women have had to endure regarding their hair. So that’s what the **** you should do, grow the **** up and look outside of your whiny entitled bull****, I am not here for it.

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I guess you guys have your reasons for going off on her but she does have curly hair too. She’s just trying to connect with curly girls. What do y’all need to attack her like that? Honestly that whole response was uncalled for and rude. The girl was just trying to relate. Damn.

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She was condescending as **** in that message. Don’t come with that “she just wants to relate” she “had curly hair too”. She was trying to give a read and snatch like a rag doll. The natural hair movement is about so much more than having curly hair. That’s where you whites are coming off foul. You have no idea the roots of the movement yet you want to jump on the bandwagon. You can never relate to black women and out hair history. Do you still have burns on your ears from hot combs? Have you ever had bleeding scabs on your scalp from a relaxer? Many black women have physical scars, all from forcing our hair to be straight to fit European standards of beauty. Now we have created this small community to look to and white girls are running up and begging to be included when 95% of the beauty industry is aimed at them and doesn’t include us. Instead of asking us to include you spaces specifically made for us, ask your self why y’all are so pressed to included.

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I understand that it’s much more than that, I’ve been natural my WHOLE LIFE. I know the struggle, but that didn’t sound like she was trying to be rude in my opinion, and of you’re thinking I’m white. I’m not. I’m African. Could’ve been a little more polite. I read it and wasn’t offended in any way. Yes whites are think they’re entitled to a lot of things but why not try to educate her in a polite way. I’m sure she didn’t mean to offend anyone. So don’t come at me for trying to defend someone who’s under attack because some of you guys took it the wrong way.

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This will be one of the last times I address this, first point, I am not here to hold anyone’s hand or be their mystical Black guide into the world and nuance of Blackness. I have no time to coddle, hug, or give you things in a sweet package so it appeals to you better, my existence does not hing on me being nice nor does my survival in this world, it hinges on me being honest, concise, and straight to the point. I do not have the ****ing time t break **** down to people that can look for the information themselves, I did her a favor by letting her know what the deal is regarding the natural hair community. I am fiercely protective of Black spaces carved out in a white world,I am exclusionary because we only get that sliver, and trust me it’s only a sliver.

It does not matter if she didn’t mean to offend me, she did my her mere entitlement of thinking that she would be accepted if she got snide, or told me about her Black friends condoning her co-opting something built from the Black is beautiful days of past. This is a movement for and by Black people to see themselves in the light of something beautiful, so that we can know and see others in their natural beauty without Eurocentric beauty values attached. White women are the prototype of beauty on a HUGE scale so excuse the **** out of me for not catering to them like the rest of the world does and wanting a space for ME & other women & men like ME. Her minor inconveniences are not my ****ing issue man, and I am not going to make an allowance into spaces that were fought for no matter how small.

It’s not about relating, its about the systematic oppression of Black folks due to their hair, nothing else just their ****ing hair, in addition to all the other **** thrown at us, hair, the **** that grows out of our head. It is imperative that you see that it isn’t just about relating, she could never understand the sociological implications, and neither can you apparently. Its a social and political stand when you can see yourself s beautiful when the whole world says otherwise. And I want people to know that these things are happening NOW in 2014 in the goddamn present not years ago, right now.

This is about so much more than hair.

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I was picking up an Essence Mag that I got in the mail yesterday (A Free 1 Year Subscription from ordering Koils By Nature, Afroveda or Hairveda) one of those products offered a 1 year Free Subscription to Essence

And it made me start thinking about that interview I heard the other day on NPR regarding White Folks complaining (more or less) about the 20th Anniversary of the Essence Music Festival.

Anyway, it made me mad all over again.

Where were all the White Folks when WE were the ones that bought and Supported Essence, Ebony and Jet for Decades? Where were they all at then?

The sheer nerve of them. WE Supported Essence Magazine and made it what it grew to become. Not them.

And the same with a lot of these Natural Hair Care Lines, Blogs, Forums, etc....it was "OUR" Support and Patronage that help them achieve where they are.

IDareT'sHair said:

I was picking up an Essence Mag that I got in the mail yesterday (A Free 1 Year Subscription from ordering Koils By Nature, Afroveda or Hairveda) one of those products offered a 1 year Free Subscription to Essence

And it made me start thinking about that interview I heard the other day on NPR regarding White Folks complaining (more or less) about the 20th Anniversary of the Essence Music Festival.

Anyway, it made me mad all over again.

Where were all the White Folks when WE were the ones that bought and Supported Essence, Ebony and Jet for Decades? Where were they all at then?

The sheer nerve of them. WE Supported Essence Magazine and made it what it grew to become. Not them.

And the same with a lot of these Natural Hair Care Lines, Blogs, Forums, etc....it was "OUR" Support and Patronage that help them achieve where they are.

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Hey, T! Great post!

I don't understand why white folks up in arms about Essence. The Jazz Fest is held 2.5 months prior to Essence and showcases talents of every genre. The year I went, Lenny Kravitz was on stage next to some country/western band. Then there would be no differentiation between the two festivals.

So are white folks mad because they are not capitalizing on the millions of dollars Essence produces? I think so. I also believe this is the reason why they are trying to co-opt the natural hair movement as well. There are billions to be made...

Americka said:

So are white folks mad because they are not capitalizing on the millions of dollars Essence produces? I think so. I also believe this is the reason why they are trying to co-opt the natural hair movement as well. There are billions to be made...

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Americka

Exactly.......

Hey Ms. Lady!

bunnycolvin

You know I find it funny that the argument started with what the white lady said. Then the black lady jumps in to the white ladies defense. Now the two black ladies are arguing with each other while that white lady probably laughing it up with her white friends paying no nvm, as they look as we fight.

bunnycolvin said:

idk if this has been posted in this thread but i saw a post about it the other day that i loved

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Who posted that?!?!? They took the words right from my brain and put it down in black and white!!!! Unapologetic and honest!!!!

angelhairtype4 said:

@bunnycolvin

You know I find it funny that the argument started with what the white lady said. Then the black lady jumps in to the white ladies defense. Now the two black ladies are arguing with each other while that white lady probably laughing it up with her white friends paying no nvm, as they look as we fight.

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Exactly!!! Some are so quick to cape for the defenseless white woman biting the hand that looks like theirs and feels their pain. For what I might add?!? To feel more "noble" for playing Cpt save a Becky???

And cant no body tell me that womans org post was not snotty AF!!! She deserved the tongue lashing she so desperately asked for.

CodeRed said:

Nicole Kidman is about the only white woman who might understand the struggle.

She started with this:

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This aint a perm??? You know white folk love them some curly perms.

angelhairtype4 said:

bunnycolvin You know I find it funny that the argument started with what the white lady said. Then the black lady jumps in to the white ladies defense. Now the two black ladies are arguing with each other while that white lady probably laughing it up with her white friends paying no nvm, as they look as we fight.

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While ITA I also think it takes situations like the realize how divided our community is and why it is important that we teach our own. She could have been much nicer about it, I mean I blushed a few times reading that, but while the sisters are arguing, we have to show the weakness in our community. That weakness at times can be pure innocent ignorance of some women just not understanding why BW don't want WW in our community.

For me it's about us having something of our own and being accepted by our own for once. It's not fair that when we get it, others feel so threatened they want to be included when not much is made for use but for them. We just need something and show that we can be a strong community too. Our community is so broken that we need to be tested and see what needs to be fixed without bullying and harassment. We need to be on the same page with those who agree and understand that there are some who won't and won't tolerate their passivity. Rome was not built in a day and our community can not be strengthened and bought together in one either. It's going to take time to being us together but as long as we fight for what we believe and teach our sisters without fear of outcast, eventually WW who choose to provoke us won't cause these issues.

And THAT^^^ is exactly why we NEED this to stay for US only!!!!

We can not expect to have any type of unity when we allow our children to be taught by any one other than US! That is why there is so much caping for them. They have conditioned us and brain washed us into seeing each other as the enemy, and as the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" so they go and rescue these white women causing turmoil amongst our own because they have been taught that their own is their enemy!!!!

We are not each others enemy and we should not be putting our neck on the lines to play rescue rangers for these woman who dont give a rats behind for what is good for us, our children and our community!!!

Discussing things that we do helps break down barriers between ethnic groups. After saying that I believe that white women should be part of the natural hair movement as soon as their hair becomes nappy.

White women do have issues with blow drying and flat ironing their hair. But the natural hair movement refers to the relaxer-free life. I'd say technically white women, unless they've been addicted to relaxing as well, don't qualify. However, they are better off skipping the heat just like us. Soooo... I guess it's not really worth fighting over.

JulietWhiskey said:

@Ogoma


Apparently, CN is deleting posts and blocking posters that do not agree with her gentrifying stance on the Natural Hair movement.

LHCF Sistern:

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Let's stop rockin' with her.

Now.

Today.

Just because she wants to make and sell this New Black Tea, DOES NOT MEAN WE NEED TO BUY AND DRINK IT.

WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE OUR OWN POWER.​

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Calling each other "New Blacks" and coons and whatever other names does not help the issue. There are blacks who have differing opinions on issues that are not sellouts, coons, racs, new blacks, or whatever else.

Why is it that black people are the only ones that are not allowed to have individual viewpoints? We don't all have to think alike about an issue, geesh.

Further, I have noticed that it seems like only successful blacks are labeled "new blacks" yet it is supposed to be an insult.

Pharrell Williams is the only black person that I have heard of refer to himself as a new black, so he can rightfully be labeled as such. But now, any successful black person who expresses a differing view on race relations is labeled a "new black" as if it is an insult, yet these people are surviving, thriving, and doing a lot for the black community. Are all blacks supposed to want to be in the #struggle 24/hours a day, seven days a week?

You are talking about recognizing our own power and that is what Pharrell was talking about as well.

LadyRaider said:

White women do have issues with blow drying and flat ironing their hair. But the natural hair movement refers to the relaxer-free life. I'd say technically white women, unless they've been addicted to relaxing as well, don't qualify. However, they are better off skipping the heat just like us. Soooo... I guess it's not really worth fighting over.

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While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight every day. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences.

The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.

I think they need to come up with their own hair movement, give it a name and keep it moving.

Solitude said:

While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight every day. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences.

The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.

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I completely understand your point here. I've seen several of them bleaching their hair to an inch if it's life and using an insane amount of heat to straighten. It seems they are trying to conform to a standard of beauty that is challenging to them. I'm sure some of them think they can do whatever they want and not really worry about the health until it's too late.

With that being said their experiences cannot compare to what BW have had to deal with. Our natural hair will never fit into "their" standard of beauty. We need a hair movement to educate and build up our confidence of owning our natural textures. As BW we have to look out for us because no one else will.

Why are they interested in joining our hair movement in the first place? Why do we have to take in every stray that doesn't feel their own community accepts them? Can't they come together and create their own movement and learn how to maintain their hair? I just find it odd that a group that has never come to our defenses all of a sudden wants to be part of a movement that they don't even understand.

I can understand if they want to educate themselves on black hair but besides that I don't see why they feel the need to be a member.

aquajoyice said:

I think they need to come up with their own hair movement, give it a name and keep it moving.

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exactly. nobody is saying white women never struggle with their hair rolleyes: who cares?) but if that struggle is not comparable to ours, why would they want o be in our group? they have no problem being exclusive when it comes to them, why the sudden need to be inclusive?

i wonder why are black people so afraid of having something that's only theirs? why do some of you always feel the need to invite others who dont even belong?

Solitude said:

While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight every day. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences. The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.

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Then let them create their own movement. Problem solved. Leave us alone, their presence is not needed or wanted.