How do you feel about white women being a part of the natural hair community?

Femmefatal1981 said:

Then let them create their own movement. Problem solved. Leave us alone, their presence is not needed or wanted.

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GoldenRule said:

LHCF was created because we were pretty much kicked off the white womens board. We all used to post on long hair forum and they were really crappy with the black women. Then they suggested we get our own sub-forum, then they didn't want us there either so Beverly created this board for us. Now they want to sing kumbayah? They have zero desire to "understand" our hair other than to assure themselves that theirs is more desirable...lol. nah, they can stay in their lane IMO.

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Femmefatal1981 said:

There is nothing left to be says after the post...

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SimJam said:

#trianglehairstruggle #blowdrylife #frizzysukks

there ... now go bond over that #felicity

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Froreal3 said:

^^^I don't think it's the LHC that they're referencing.

Anyway, I still don't get it. For the past however many decades, black people have differentiated "natural hair" and "permed" hair. Where was everybody back then? Since when do white women go "natural" in the way that the black community has come to understand the term? I really don't understand why they are just now trying to insert themselves into this. Is it because the internet has allowed cultures to interact more?

Also, I really don't understand why some black women feel that including others in the natural world as it relates to black women will somehow miraculously make black hair appeal to the masses.

That is backward and flawed logic. Just because white women want to claim they are "natural" in the same way that we do (related to hair texture vs. color etc), does not mean that all of a sudden we will be able to wear our hair the way it grows out of our scalps in corporate offices. Our hair will only be accepted when we readily accept it more. There is a stark difference between acceptance of our hair and co-opting/appropriation of our cultural terms and ideologies. The latter does not bring about the former.

^^^Why don't people want to understand this? I would like someone with a differing viewpoint to please explain how one equates to the other.

Sidenote: I've read a bunch of blogs and I see the message that we're trying to convey is being altered as well. People have been saying that black ladies with type 3 hair are not part of this. That couldn't be further from the truth. We're not talking about type 3 women in the diaspora. We're talking about the way our cultural understanding of what it means to be "natural" is being taken from us and skewed.

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bunnycolvin said:

exactly. nobody is saying white women never struggle with their hair rolleyes: who cares?) but if that struggle is not comparable to ours, why would they want o be in our group? they have no problem being exclusive when it comes to them, why the sudden need to be inclusive?

i wonder why are black people so afraid of having something that's only theirs? why do some of you always feel the need to invite others who dont even belong?

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Solitude said:

Calling each other "New Blacks" and coons and whatever other names does not help the issue. There are blacks who have differing opinions on issues that are not sellouts, coons, racs, new blacks, or whatever else.

Why is it that black people are the only ones that are not allowed to have individual viewpoints? We don't all have to think alike about an issue, geesh.

Further, I have noticed that it seems like only successful blacks are labeled "new blacks" yet it is supposed to be an insult.

Pharrell Williams is the only black person that I have heard of refer to himself as a new black, so he can rightfully be labeled as such. But now, any successful black person who expresses a differing view on race relations is labeled a "new black" as if it is an insult, yet these people are surviving, thriving, and doing a lot for the black community. Are all blacks supposed to want to be in the #struggle 24/hours a day, seven days a week?

You are talking about recognizing our own power and that is what Pharrell was talking about as well.

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ith a little digging I found that there was in fact a “law” of sorts that demanded women of color in Louisiana to cover their hair with a fabric cloth starting in 1789 as a part of what was called the Bando du buen gobierno (Edict for Good Government). What these rules were meant to do was try to curtail the growing influence of the free black population and keep the social order of the time. The edict included sections specifically about the changing of certain “unacceptable” behaviors of the free black women in the colony including putting an end to what he and others believed to be the overly ostentatious hairstyles of these ladies which drew the attention of white men, and the jealousy of white women. These rules are called the “Tignon Laws” A tignon (pronounced “tiyon”) is a headdress

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Solitude said:

While I do not think a white woman's hair experience is the same as ours, I do think many of them struggle. I CANNOT IMAGINE waking up blow-drying my hair straight every day. The fact that many of them also got relaxers and straightening treatments speaks volumes to me. I think the WW involved in this controversy may not have a relatable experience, but I wouldn't dismiss all white women's hair experiences. The bias against curly hair of all types is as subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of racism. The fact that white women also feel the need to straighten their hair for cultural reasons illustrates how far and deep racism reaches, sometimes beyond black culture. To completely shut white women down is to shut down an important part of the dialogue, in my opinion.

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Honey Bee said:

Lawd, this is not about Pharrell and/ or 'new Blacks'. This is about ww encroaching on our ish as usual.

Stay focused.

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Gin&Tonic said:

My shi-tzu lives for the blow dryer . Can he join the movement? What does a white woman know about us? Why are some folks invested in white folks being educated about our hair? That's just silly .

They have a hair movement for white women. It's called the curly hair movement.

Sometimes I think black people take integration too far. This is why we can't come up as a people.

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aquajoyice said:

I completely understand your point here. I've seen several of them bleaching their hair to an inch if it's life and using an insane amount of heat to straighten. It seems they are trying to conform to a standard of beauty that is challenging to them. I'm sure some of them think they can do whatever they want and not really worry about the health until it's too late.

With that being said their experiences cannot compare to what BW have had to deal with. Our natural hair will never fit into "their" standard of beauty. We need a hair movement to educate and build up our confidence of owning our natural textures. As BW we have to look out for us because no one else will.

Why are they interested in joining our hair movement in the first place? Why do we have to take in every stray that doesn't feel their own community accepts them? Can't they come together and create their own movement and learn how to maintain their hair? I just find it odd that a group that has never come to our defenses all of a sudden wants to be part of a movement that they don't even understand.

I can understand if they want to educate themselves on black hair but besides that I don't see why they feel the need to be a member.

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SlimPickinz said:

I was watching YouTube yesterday and a target commercial for "curly" hair played. It was a WW with type 1 hair using Shea moisture. I typed up a letter to target immediately.

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SlimPickinz said:

I was watching YouTube yesterday and a target commercial for "curly" hair played. It was a WW with type 1 hair using Shea moisture. I typed up a letter to target immediately.

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Solitude said:

Women of all races are part of the "curly hair" movement, so that's not something reserved for white women. You can't live in a culture and want to be included in traditionally "white" arenas, but not want them to be included in any of ours. It doesn't work like that. I am not concerned about whites "taking over" the natural hair movement because no one can come and "take over" the hair on my head.

Unless a WW is going to somehow figure out a way to grow Type 4 kinky/curly hair, then I don't have much to worry about. As deep as hair may be at times, it's still aesthetic. When you log off, most people in the world aren't concerned about the natural hair movement, like at all.

I also get annoyed with people acting like we need a "natural hair movement" to wear our hair. Black women have always worn natural hair, braids, twists, etc. The only difference now is that there are more of us and new styles. The "movement" could come and go and you can still wear your hair how you want to, natural or otherwise.

To use this as an example of when integration goes wrong is kind of extreme. We're talking about hair here. Black women have been emulating the styles of other cultures to the point of literally wearing other women's hair, but I guess we don't want to talk about that, right?

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Solitude said:

You don't need to tell me to stay focused. You need to go back into the thread and tell the poster that I quoted. She was the one who referenced New Blacks and that is the person that I was responding to.



Women of all races are part of the "curly hair" movement, so that's not something reserved for white women. You can't live in a culture and want to be included in traditionally "white" arenas, but not want them to be included in any of ours. It doesn't work like that. I am not concerned about whites "taking over" the natural hair movement because no one can come and "take over" the hair on my head.

Unless a WW is going to somehow figure out a way to grow Type 4 kinky/curly hair, then I don't have much to worry about. As deep as hair may be at times, it's still aesthetic. When you log off, most people in the world aren't concerned about the natural hair movement, like at all.

I also get annoyed with people acting like we need a "natural hair movement" to wear our hair. Black women have always worn natural hair, braids, twists, etc. The only difference now is that there are more of us and new styles. The "movement" could come and go and you can still wear your hair how you want to, natural or otherwise.

To use this as an example of when integration goes wrong is kind of extreme. We're talking about hair here. Black women have been emulating the styles of other cultures to the point of literally wearing other women's hair, but I guess we don't want to talk about that, right?

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Starbucks said:

Hi,

I think you are referring to hairstyles vs a movement toward self acceptance. To you, it may just be learning to have healthy hair. And that's ok. But to other people, it's more than that, and they have a right not to want it appropriated.

As an analogy, this whole thing reminds me of the origins of rap music. To some people "it's not that deep, it's just music." But for some of the original artists, it was a real movement that meant something. Then it became more commercialized, MAJORLY appropriated (yes that had a lot to do with sell outs, I know), into a distorted mess that many of us are ashamed of today. And now black people are not even the face of that in some cases. And some of the ones who are...are just caricatures.

This is why I can't support websites like rapgenius. Sorry. I can't bring myself to give it clicks. You have a Jewish guy and Indian guy now making money off the rap lyrics that in many cases, meant something to a specific culture. It is appropriation. I don't think the same cultures would allow anyone to come in and create a Bollywood or Purim site that they have no say in and appropriate / bank off of their culture like that. Just saying.

Phew, a bit of a tangent, but it was supposed to be an analogy. I'm happy you're happy. We will have to agree to disagree.

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Solitude said:

The thing is, I don't necessarily disagree. I'm all for blacks having our own, but what I don't like that I'm see in multiple threads is:

1. The attacks on other black bloggers/vloggers. I don't see any other race of people collectively attacking beauty bloggers and vloggers who partner with people of other races.

2. The allegations of misappropriation of things that don't belong to "us." "Natural hair" doesn't belong exclusively to black people, and we (those of us posting here on the topic) don't "own" these "natural hair" companies or "natural hair" blogs, etc. Those are businesses and they are not going to limit their reach by marketing and selling exclusively to blacks.

These days, no one in America gets to have their own. That's the tone of this nation right now. Any separatism is seen as a bad thing.

3. I don't like how we are not acknowledging our part in the matter, most specifically how we wear weaves. It is true that we had to assimilate by wearing straight hairstyles, but literally wearing the hair grown on another woman's head from another culture goes into appropriation territory. For some reason, though, we feel like we have a right to wear Indian women's hair (many of whom did not give their hair up voluntarily ).

Anyway, there are so many different threads on this and so many varying opinions that I think the messages are getting crossed. Like I said, I'm all for us having our own, but we have to face the reality that with social media and the changing times, pretty much everyone has to share.

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KammyGirl said:

But we are talking about that. We are talking about the reasons why this is so important to so many black women. And that is one of the reasons. Black women didn't just decide hey straight hair looks better than my own let me go get some weave. It was beat into us that our hair was not OK. Which is exactly why this "movement" is important. All the weaves, relaxers, jheri curl products etc. Why do you think those things came into existence in the first place. The old commercials telling women if they want to be beautiful use this relaxer and all that. Where did that come from? Not us.

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Solitude said:

Yes, we wore our own hair in straight styles to assimilate, but IMO wearing the hair from another woman's head goes into appropriation territory.

I don't see how one could argue that it's not, especially considering that hair weaves only because popular/common in the last 10-15 years. Do you think Indian woman appreciate us walking around with 28 inches of hair that's actually theirs? Or do we think that it's not possible for black women to be guilty of misappropriate because we have been victims of social and racial injustice?

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KammyGirl said:

Re the first bold: And this is our fault how? MOST women who wear weaves will almost happily tell you that they look ugly without weave or that they look like a slave(I've actually heard this). It's not that they feel they have a RIGHT. It's more they've been told they need to. If they had been taught they didn't do to then maybe I might understand this argument.

Re the second bold: Everyone doesn't have to share and most people aren't. Only black people are being forced to share every single thing in our culture with any and everyone who decides they want in. It's been said multiple times in all these threads that there are plenty of ethnic groups who have been successful at keeping their groups from being infiltrated. Why not us? Because we've been told we have to share. And I honestly don't understand why.

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