Going Modest- Anyone thinking Modest?

^^^^I don't agree with this. I don't walk by the words of man, but by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Nothing in these "reasons" are based on biblical principles. Those are that person's convictions, not mine. Even after reading this thread, I still don't feel conviction about wearing makeup or changing my style of dress (I may be young, but I know what not to wear). Maybe in time God will give me that revelation. But I must say, if I am not living a true Christian life because I choose to wear makeup on the days I want to look nice, then I must not be hearing from the same God as everyone else. The God I have grown to love and adore surely must be a counterfeit because there is no way he would put up with my blasphemy.

Adornments don't make me who I am. I am confident in Christ alone. My self-esteem isn't built on how I look but who I know God created me to be. I feel like this article insinuates that anyone who wears makeup or wears jewelry is less than a Christian. If that is so, I guess I am no longer welcome around these parts (not that I'm actually leaving ). I guess that my relationship with Christ isn't real enough. Is that really what we're trying to say here?

I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, but I would to like hear if I am not a Christian because I wear makeup.

Divine. said:

Adornments don't make me who I am. I am confident in Christ alone. My self-esteem isn't built on how I look but who I know God created me to be. I feel like this article insinuates that anyone who wears makeup or wears jewelry is less than a Christian. If that is so, I guess I am no longer welcome around these parts (not that I'm actually leaving ). I guess that my relationship with Christ isn't real enough. Is that really what we're trying to say here?

I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, but I would to like hear if I am not a Christian because I wear makeup.

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I don't think its anyone's right to tell you, you are not a christian your relationship with God is your relationship, he has set forth certain standards that at this age its very difficult for many to wrap their minds around. I know if I had heard this message at 20, It would have been a wash for me. I was very much into how I looked, though I was never that girl. Many, Many woman are committing to the Modesty movement but are struggling with the change. Its not easy, but it is doable for those wiling to make the sacrifice, because honestly that is what it would be a sacrifice. I am learning to sacrifice myself from certain foods that I love but are just not good for me at all.

I don't wear make up or jewelry. I stopped wearing make up in my twenties. Never picked it up again. I wore it on occasions. As a result my skin doesn't look like my age. I look 20 years younger. I was convicted from the start with jewelry. I never left the house without it. you could not pay me to wear it now. its uncomfortable. Nail polish is uncomfortable to me and I have tons of it. but hate to wear it. Now I am learning about my clothing and I'll say that for me I want my heart to be right with God, who can claim my life at this very moment.

This message will change some lives and have no effect on others. It is not for me to judge anyone. Or browbeat and accuse. I am just posting articles as I see them to help encourage others that are interested and food for thought for passerby's.

I believe a Christian woman does not wear make up or jewelry or wear tight revealing, see through, to short, to high dress, skirts, or shoes. I have always felt that something wasn't right with it but thought oh well this is how everyone dress, never thinking there is a better way that God wants us to dress. God has specific standards for those he calls his own.

This message has never been preached in service that I have been apart of this is my own study that I am doing. This is my convictions. It started with College students and high school young ladies who decided to go Modesty and how their lives have changed.

This is not hard for me, what is hard for me is giving up my potato chips.

@Divine. I think the point your making is wearing make-up and jewelry is not necessarily an adornment for everyone. I think the issue with many modesty arguments are the gross generalizations. While make-up and jewelry may have been a real issue for the woman who wrote the article it doesn't necessarily apply to the attitudes and feelings of all women.

I remember when I was a teenager my grandmother loved for me to wear her full length mink coats when I dressed up. She grew up with the old Hollywood mentality and wearing a mink coat was definitely an adornment in her view. However, I grew up in the PETA generation. I was borderline horrified at wearing a coat of dead animals. Even though for her and the women in her age group wearing a mink coat was regal and elegant I definitely was not adorned.

dicapr That's exactly what I'm trying to say. There was a lot over generalization in that article I was referencing. As I read it, the author came off as someone who didn't have confidence growing up and relied on makeup and jewelry to make themselves feel good. Thus, when they did feel the conviction, it was because of the importance they put on those items. I can't relate to that, which is why I don't feel that me wearing makeup is a bad thing. I recognize I don't need it. However, I love how makeup gives you ability to literally create and transform. I already don't wear jewelry. Sometimes I may put a necklace on but that is rare.

Like I said in my previous post, I don't think I'm called to this I haven't felt (yet) convicted about my style of dress. In my walk, my "adornments" have not been a distraction. Men barely notice I exist I mean if that's the overall premise of modesty (not being a distraction or attracting men), then I guess I'm just cloaked with a veil of righteousness lol

Good luck with going modest blazingthru. Not everyone can or is willing to do it, so it's inspiring to see you take it on.

The implications are still the same..."do this and if you don't, you're not good on your walk with Christ." He doesn't expect us to dress as the Virgin Mary. How is there a modesty movement when it's required of the faithful? Common sense modesty. Obviously, we are confusing what it truly is. There's no booklet to tell you where to shop for clothing. Modesty in some countries looks differently. This is becoming legalistic. People should do what they are led to but be very careful not to imply that others are not open to what G-d is telling us all because there are differences of opinion on how "modesty" appears. True, modesty is a virtue. Should I bare deep cleavage or bottom or stomach? Well, it depends. What am I doing at the time? Swimming? Would I wear such attire to church?

I'm around people who dress frum all the time. They don't judge me, I don't judge them. They don't think lowly of me for not dressing in orthodox fashion. Some use jewelry, makeup etc. Others don't...on either side. We have an understanding that we all have choices. We all dress modestly and it looks differently. We don't infringe upon the choices of others by implying they are not modest enough. Yes, it's required scripturally...and it also manifests in various ways depending upon the person and the culture. I know I said I was not going to comment...well, I had to in this case.

dicapr

Yes, I agree totally on that. I know of a discussion about undergarments and people are downing the VS and other lines as immodest. It's underwear. I don't need to wear huge granny cotton whites. I can remember when grandmothers etc. were against bikini underwear and hipsters.

We have to be careful not to call something a sin that God has not called a sin. He has called us to modesty but did not give a specific formula for that. So we cannot say make-up and jewelry or sleeveless shirts or bikini's are sin.
What we can say is that we must allow the Holy Spirit to guide us.

A lot of how we dress is just good etiquette (knowing what is appropriate for your current environment and your body).

Modesty IS subjective. Different occasions, environments, cultures, ages, intentions, etc. all contribute to what is modest.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Though many woman are not brought up with the truth, as we become adults we know what is acceptable and what is not acceptable and exposing your breast is not acceptable, we all know that, so we don't expose our breast but we do when we wear revealing clothing. Its not consider as bad as being totally naked. But God says it is bad.

Jesus made it clear that men are easily led into wrong thinking. He said, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:27, 28.

And what can be said for the women who dress in such a way that they stimulate this kind of thinking? They are equally guilty before God. For this reason no true Christian woman, who understands the effect of such a course, will wear the revealing clothes which create such illicit desires. As the dress inches above the knee, the climate of sin is created. For the carnal man, who has not the power of the gospel in his life, there is no chance whatever to resist the temptation. Every miniskirt is fuel which triggers the mind to think the most debased thoughts of which the carnal nature is capable. Christian women should have no share in this kind of enticement.

Indeed, the second greatest commandment of Jesus would be violated by such a course. Christ said, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' How could a woman wear clothing that was designed to cause her neighbor's husband to commit mental adultery and not be guilty of breaking that law of love? Would she love her neighbor as herself if she willfully did something to cause her neighbor's husband to sin against his wife and against God?

We are dealing here with actions which cause others to sin. Moral issues are directly involved.

1 Timothy 2: 9, 10, “likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.”

Luke 6: 46, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

John 14: 15, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”

Modesty has fallen out of style because the church has married the world. Being modest in our lives and in our clothing is a commandment. Dare we tell God that we love Him if we aren't willing to obey Him in all things, including in the way we dress? We are God's people, the bride of Christ. We are to be holy–that is, set apart unto God. Let's live like it.

Ladies, men are vision driven. We have a responsibility to help our brothers to live a holy life. We must not cause them to stumble by our words, by our actions, by our deeds or by our clothing.

I've heard young women say that if they were wearing a bikini and a guy lusted after them, it was his problem and his alone. These young ladies suggested that guys should simply avert their eyes when confronted with their near-nakedness. Yes, men have to take responsibility for their actions and if they give into lust, God holds them accountable. However, if you as a woman have dressed in such a way as to cause a man to lust, God will hold you accountable, also. Luke 17: 1, 2 says, “Then he said unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than he should offend one of these little ones.” God takes our responsibilities as His children seriously. We ought to, also. As Christian women, we have got to realize what our immodesty does to guys: we can cause our brothers in Christ to stumble; by doing so, we mar our witness and blaspheme God's holy name.

I've seen my sons have to repeatedly advert their eyes while standing among the ladies at church. This ought not to be. Women have a responsibility to men. These men who might struggle when confronted with your improper dress, they are your brothers in Christ. God will not take it lightly if you cause them to sin. There are many, many men out there like my sons who want to go to church and be free from things that will tempt them so that they can be free to simply worship the Lord. Help them.

We do not belong to ourselves, we belong to God. It is God alone that we must please. I Corinthians 6: 20 says, “For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.” Everything about our lives should glorify our Savior. A woman's clothes ought to frame her face and not her body. Ladies, our clothing should show that we are women of God rather than suggest that we are on display for men to enjoy. It is a sin for your clothing to shout, “Look at me!”.

Immodesty is a sin. Men are looking at you and they are undressing you with their eyes. Men are feasting on you with their eyes. They are sinning because of you. You are partakers in their sin because you are setting them up for it. God will hold you responsible. If you dress in such a way that men will lust after you–it is your fault and your problem when they lust. If your clothes show off your belly, your hips, your breasts (by clinging to them or displaying them), it doesn't shout, “I'm a Christian. I'm a godly woman.” It shouts, “I'm on display. Look at me! Enjoy what you see!”

Modesty begins in the heart. A modest woman will exhibit qualities such as gentleness and humility (Colossians 3: 12). She will not strive to be “front and center” and gather attention for herself. Her clothing, like everything about her, will point to God.

blazingthru where do you draw the line? What is a reasonable request for modesty and what isn't? I think that is where the whole not causing your brother to sin argument falls apart. Is it reasonable to cover your arms, legs, hair, wear a veil so only your eyes show? Or should we not even show our eyes because a man's thoughts may go astray because he has met our gaze?

And yes the bible speaks on men looking on a woman to lust after and speaks of that being a sin. But "to" in the verse implies intent. For example I saw X men Days of Future past and there is a scene in which Hugh Jackman has a shot of his naked rear end. I did not into the viewing of that movie to enjoy or gaze on his nakedness. And I wasn't expecting that much nudity-I thought it would be less revealing than it actually was. I noticed he had a great body and quickly moved on from the image. However, if I went to a all male review my intentions would be to lust-a sin. One was a surprise viewing that I quickly moved away from the other would be a premeditated decision to view someone who was not my spouse in a sexual manner.

dicapr said:

blazingthru where do you draw the line? What is a reasonable request for modesty and what isn't? I think that is where the whole not causing your brother to sin argument falls apart. Is it reasonable to cover your arms, legs, hair, wear a veil so only your eyes show? Or should we not even show our eyes because a man's thoughts may go astray because he has met our gaze?

And yes the bible speaks on men looking on a woman to lust after and speaks of that being a sin. But "to" in the verse implies intent. For example I saw X men Days of Future past and there is a scene in which Hugh Jackman has a shot of his naked rear end. I did not into the viewing of that movie to enjoy or gaze on his nakedness. And I wasn't expecting that much nudity-I thought it would be less revealing than it actually was. I noticed he had a great body and quickly moved on from the image. However, if I went to a all male review my intentions would be to lust-a sin. One was a surprise viewing that I quickly moved away from the other would be a premeditated decision to view someone who was not my spouse in a sexual manner.

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I think the bolded is the big question. There are some things that I may think are quite ridiculous to consider immodest while there are things that I may consider immodest that someone else doesn't. Where is the line drawn and who gets to draw it?

I believe that it is up to us (with maturity) and that is why God did not give us a formula. He knew that we would each have different things that would apply to us. For example, there are things that a slender woman can where and it look perfectly tasteful and modest, but put it on a buxom woman and it looks completely sexy. There is not a "one size fits all" to modesty due to the variables that I mentioned above.

When everyone is at the beach, people sunbathe or swim. You don't do that in a business suit. There are modest bikinis etc. This is simply legalism and is worry about others' lives and what they do/what you would have them do rather than concern about what you feel you personally are called to. I was with you expressing YOUR need to dress a certain way until you started inferring that people aren't doing G-d's will.

dicapr, glad you asked. What modesty now means to me and my intentions. I posted some pictures of the length of skirt and dress I think is appropriate, I don't believe any of your skin on your legs should show and if it does it should be covered with dark stockings or heavy panty-hoses, My arms should not be exposed and very little below my neck.
I don't have to wear a veil and or hair covering, thought the jury is still out on that issue. If a man lust after me, I am in no way to blame, that is between him and God but if I have parts of my skin exposed then I will have to give an account for that reason. Since I FULLY understand the reason for being modest, not only because of men but for my own self worth, I can embrace the teaching.

I have always been uncomfortable. Tight jeans, tight skirts or to lose stuff, revealing shirts. I have always hated the way we have to chose to dress, never knowing things could be better. Don't get me wrong, I purchase and wore all those things. Including the beaded bras in the 90's. But I never took my jacket off. It was fashion and that is that. I wore pumps for years and my feet hurt then I switch to high heel mules same problem, nothing was comforting until I changed my footwear and only wore heels for occasions, knowing I never have to do it again is a blessing to me. I think bunions are hideous and I never wanted one on my foot, corns was bad enough. I haven't had a corn since 1995. Sticking with fashion is embarrassing, painful and not healthy at all. But we all have done so because that was our life but its no longer the life for me.

As for the movies, I am surprise you even mention it. When I became SDA no none goes to the movies or atleast confess to going. I do go but rarely. We know very well that that is probably the worst thing to do because, how many movies do not profane the name of the LORD. Every movie I have ever seen sep for Christian movies take the name of the lord in vain and christians sit right there and watch to our own shame. Yeah I do go to the movies but perhaps twice a year if that. I try to go with my parents now, and we pick certain movies that are family generated and still somewhere in there there's a curse word here or there. Nudity is a given, I can't imagine the topic of sex not coming up one way or another so there's no surprise at all.

Dicapr this is all I can say to you. Your already convicted, I know that from your comments. Its not an easy decision to go Modest. I know it. I am struggling with the clothing because I don't have the means to get what I need I am doing the best I can with what I have. I know God will bless that, but this is not something pulled out of the air it is a command from God to make careful decisions about your choice of clothing. If its to tight its not modest, if it shows your limbs its not modest. I mean there is more to this movement then just covering our body it is our walk with God and how we have made Jesus lord of our life and we are open to his words in how we are to live our life, how we are to eat, drink and cover our-self and how we are to treat one another. Everyone has to examine their own convictions and go from there.

I place no judgement on anyone, but I know there are others whom do not speak who might want to learn more and I welcome those who agree and those who do not agree. When folks do not agree it helps me explain better and better my reasons for going this route, because I can answer the questions I didn't have before or find the answer. But it really comes down how you want to present yourself before the Lord.
Not my will but thine will, I will obey..

At this point in my life, I have nothing left to give up. I have given up everything and yet I have learned there is still more. AMEN whatever it takes to keep me on my journey.

L-rd, have mercy. Legalism is a dangerous thing.

JaneBond007 said:

When everyone is at the beach, people sunbathe or swim. You don't do that in a business suit. There are modest bikinis etc. This is simply legalism and is worry about others' lives and what they do/what you would have them do rather than concern about what you feel you personally are called to. I was with you expressing YOUR need to dress a certain way until you started inferring that people aren't doing G-d's will.

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I do not have a heaven or hell, I posted articles that speak on Modesty, key word was obedience and so then it becomes breaking the will of God. It is your decision whatever you chose to do. Regardless if its God's will or not. HE gives us free will to chose. However, he clearly states the difference between a fallen woman and a holy woman. Without them speaking words we can determine which is the fallen woman and which is the holy woman. by their clothing.

Many woman did not wear pants when I was a child nor heavy make up like they do now. If they did folks would call them whores. I did not wear pants until I was much older, you could not wear pants to school. you could when you were home but not to school and never ever in a church. my grandmother never ever put a pair of pants on in her life and she died in the late 80's. this things we do is a new thing. It gets worst and worst every year and more and more clothing comes off and folks stand up and say yeah thats great... Does anyone really think that God would approve of this when he says take off your ornaments oh by the way he clearly outlines the things he wants removed.

Its in Jeremiah I have to find it. I'll get back on that issue.

Modesty and the young
http://youtu.be/Gj4moN_17UM
http://youtu.be/5vORQWVFVtc
http://youtu.be/W9XhDLbDf5U
http://youtu.be/ci03ZTN46iQ
http://youtu.be/spxrmUQJrl4
http://youtu.be/7l7HlI4e8Tg

blazingthru I do practice modesty-but it isn't the type of modesty you are preaching. I am focused on learning to have a quiet, humble spirit-something I personally struggle with. I am learning to put myself second and allow God's plan to unfold without my "help". The bible says that this type of adornment is the type that that wins over unbelievers.

I do not dress in a manner that I consider sexy. I am becoming a cami queen so that I don't accidentally expose my chest to someone out of consideration to my brothers in Christ. However, I am uncomfortable in perpetrating the belief that I am responsible for someone's sin. I also don't believe that I have to obliterate my female form with baggy covering clothing to be modest.

Like I said in my original post I applauded women who follow their convictions on modesty. What I take issue with is the idea that all modesty looks the same. Good luck in your transition to what you believe is a modest dress code.

blazingthru said:

I do not have a heaven or hell, I posted articles that speak on Modesty, key word was obedience and so then it becomes breaking the will of God. It is your decision whatever you chose to do. Regardless if its God's will or not. HE gives us free will to chose. However, he clearly states the difference between a fallen woman and a holy woman. Without them speaking words we can determine which is the fallen woman and which is the holy woman. by their clothing.

Many woman did not wear pants when I was a child nor heavy make up like they do now. If they did folks would call them whores. I did not wear pants until I was much older, you could not wear pants to school. you could when you were home but not to school and never ever in a church. my grandmother never ever put a pair of pants on in her life and she died in the late 80's. this things we do is a new thing. It gets worst and worst every year and more and more clothing comes off and folks stand up and say yeah thats great... Does anyone really think that God would approve of this when he says take off your ornaments oh by the way he clearly outlines the things he wants removed.

Its in Jeremiah I have to find it. I'll get back on that issue.

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I'm a Hebrew catholic...I'm not looking for advice from a non-catholics because it often leads to people encouraging you to leave...if that makes sense. BUT...I see some kinda danger in proclaiming that other people are disobeying G-d because they do not conform to YOUR idea of modesty. It's pretty simple.

What's not so simple, what do you mean you do not have a heaven nor hell? I'm not preaching people are going to either for sins of commission/omission or holding to the 7 virtues.

We wore pants to school when I was a kid. It wasn't considered "dirty." They were clothing. And to the enboldened, I guess YOU can tell who is the fallen woman and who is not. I don't have a crystal ball into people's private lives. And if I did see a prostitute or someone dressed showing a lot of skin, I know not to judge them. We all have sensibilities and some things do irritate us, but there's a line not to cross. You sure do have a lot of absolutes based upon YOUR interpretation of what you think G-d wants for everybody else. If I were you, I'd worry about what it is that I were called to do and take your eyes off everybody else. I'm not about to dress as a nun and I have NO regrets nor do I have ANY convictions about my clothing, makeup nor jewelry. Sorry. I'm responding to the inference that others aren't g-dly because YOU think they are not. That's the whole point. Why not dress in a birqa and call it a day?

Furthermore, and I truly mean this, the thread started off well and was interesting. It's since spiraled to hell. You simply cannot direct another through these legalistic means. There is some serious exegesis that is needed and that would mean that context and history would be a part of it.

Now, I have my own preferences but I'm not going to directly judge someone's choices and I'm not going to say they are wrong. That's where I feel you are veering off into trouble while trying to explain why you feel a certain type of modest expression is best. You go beyond that into the realm of determining yourself who is good/bad. There are general accepted cultural norms...this is all going well past.

Edit: I know I sound dry and harsh...but I guarantee, it's not against YOU...it's against the implications made. I am not angry...just getting to the point. And I apologize if I've hurt your feelings with my bluntness. But there is a danger zone here. It's not that you don't have the right to see things as you do. Please don't tell us that we aren't right with G-d because we don't follow your path.

blazingthru said:

I do not have a heaven or hell, I posted articles that speak on Modesty, key word was obedience and so then it becomes breaking the will of God. It is your decision whatever you chose to do. Regardless if its God's will or not. HE gives us free will to chose. However, he clearly states the difference between a fallen woman and a holy woman. Without them speaking words we can determine which is the fallen woman and which is the holy woman. by their clothing.

Many woman did not wear pants when I was a child nor heavy make up like they do now. If they did folks would call them whores. I did not wear pants until I was much older, you could not wear pants to school. you could when you were home but not to school and never ever in a church. my grandmother never ever put a pair of pants on in her life and she died in the late 80's. this things we do is a new thing. It gets worst and worst every year and more and more clothing comes off and folks stand up and say yeah thats great... Does anyone really think that God would approve of this when he says take off your ornaments oh by the way he clearly outlines the things he wants removed.

Its in Jeremiah I have to find it. I'll get back on that issue.

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blazingthru

To the bolded: are you getting this from a specific scripture? If so, which one?

Again - Forcing personal convictions on others isn't the right way to go about things, and that's how this thread feels.

I wear makeup and I look younger too. People guess my age at 25 (at the most), and I'm turning 38 this year. In contrast, I have a friend who hardly ever wears makeup (certainly no foundation, powder, mascara and the like - maybe some lipstick every now and then) and she looks every bit the 40 years that she is.
Being younger-looking has nothing to do with not wearing makeup. It's simply to do with a) your genetic makeup (my mother also looks much younger than her age), b) good health / good living (good nutrition, exercise, etc) and c) your general outlook in life (are you a happy person?, etc).

I wear makeup and skinny jeans, and I definitely hear God very clearly. I know this because I (and many, many others) see God's hand in my life.

Wasn't there a thread here a while ago about jewellery where women compared notes on who wears what kind of jewellery?? I posted in there and said I didn't wear any (simply because I don't like it and not because God told me He didn't like it) and kept it moving. I don't understand jewellery, but I won't judge women who like wearing it.

Everybody who wears makeup or jewellery does not worship it. And everybody who 'dresses nicely' is not doing it to be noticed by men (or women). Could it be that we like to look nice for ourselves (whatever our definition of 'nice' is)?

Again - not saying, let it all hang out - but if one looks decent, then what's the problem?

I get waxed every month. Nobody sees this - only me. Am I now immodest??
I like nice underwear. Again - nobody sees this. Am I now immodest??

Paul said women should cover their heads. I'm not really seeing this in the church....... Do churches where women don't cover their heads hear God less? A lot of women preachers don't cover their heads. Does this mean that they are in sin and therefore are not hearing God?

Paul also said women should be quiet in church (paraphrasing). Should Joyce Meyer sit down and be quiet? Did God not call her and is God not using her (and so many other women)?

As someone else already asked - Where do we draw the line here?

Let us all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and stop imposing our convictions on other people.

JaneBond007 said:

I'm a Hebrew catholic...I'm not looking for advice from a non-catholics because it often leads to people encouraging you to leave...if that makes sense. BUT...I see some kinda danger in proclaiming that other people are disobeying G-d because they do not conform to YOUR idea of modesty. It's pretty simple.

What's not so simple, what do you mean you do not have a heaven nor hell? I'm not preaching people are going to either for sins of commission/omission or holding to the 7 virtues.

We wore pants to school when I was a kid. It wasn't considered "dirty." They were clothing. And to the enboldened, I guess YOU can tell who is the fallen woman and who is not. I don't have a crystal ball into people's private lives. And if I did see a prostitute or someone dressed showing a lot of skin, I know not to judge them. We all have sensibilities and some things do irritate us, but there's a line not to cross. You sure do have a lot of absolutes based upon YOUR interpretation of what you think G-d wants for everybody else. If I were you, I'd worry about what it is that I were called to do and take your eyes off everybody else. I'm not about to dress as a nun and I have NO regrets nor do I have ANY convictions about my clothing, makeup nor jewelry. Sorry. I'm responding to the inference that others aren't g-dly because YOU think they are not. That's the whole point. Why not dress in a birqa and call it a day?

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JaneBond007, um yeah this was a personal attack and your point is well taken. Again I posted articles that I read. I agree with the articles, because I agree that If I can read it in the word and if God says the word is Jesus Christ then I need to be obedient. that is my point of view. I don't need the bible to speak everything word for word to be obedient. But thats me. I spoke on the clothes I would wear. I spoke about what I felt about my decision to go modest. Everyone else is free to be for or against. I like the negative because I need to support my reasons to go modest, but not to offend anyone. Whenever you make a decisions most times you need to know the answer for and against. I am learning that many are against, but deep down its a me thing.

I've learned that a christian has to be willing to be obedient no matter the cause and that when we make a decision to become a christian we have to deny ourselves luke 9:23 and that is not taught often. Self Denial. to be plain is not an easy decision if your use to living a certain way. I get that. In any case. I am not attacking anyone. This is a discussion about Modesty but its really about obedience. Lets face it Modesty does not fit in today s world. to be modest, God's standard of modesty, is to be different.

In Isaiah 3:16 God does not generalize about ornaments, but gives a long list of specific articles that were being worn by the “daughters of Zion.” Now, let’s notice whether God, the same yesterday, today, and forever, was pleased with the wearing of these things. “Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet … in that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, … the chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, … the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, The rings, and nose jewels” (Isaiah 3:16-21).

Let’s pause in the midst of this recital and ask the question, how will God take away these things? In the next chapter, verse 4, we read, “When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion … by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.” Don’t overlook the fact that God refers to all these objects of adornment as “filth.” He further describes most graphically the ones who survive the “washing away” of the ornament, “In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem” (Isaiah 4:2, 3).

In bold, clear strokes, the prophet reveals the abhorrence of God for the manifestations of pride in wearing ornaments. After the washing away of those artificial baubles, God describes the women as being “comely,” “holy,” and “beautiful.” Apparently, He does not appraise beauty in the same way that we do. The women put on all their jewelry to make themselves beautiful, but God said it was filthy. When it was all washed away, He said they were comely and beautiful. Do not miss the extreme significance of this truth. God uses that word “comely” to describe His Bride, the Church. “I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2).

Now this is ornaments that is in the judgement, it is serious. I can imagine what God feels about our choice of clothing. I am guilty. I have said all that I will do but I haven't done any of it. I am completely covered but I still wear pants. I do not have long skirts yet. So how could I judge anyone when I am making a commitment that I can't live up to yet. I hope the discussion continues on without me being personally attacked. but perhaps the issue instead. As for it being in GOD's will isn't it in the bible.

@blazinthru I will ask you to read the entirety of those chapters. God is speaking of ill gotten riches, oppression of the rich, idolatry, and witchcraft in the first 3 chapters of Isaiah. The removal of jewels, headbands, fine clothes was because of pride. He also speaks of removing their mirrors and purses, and outer garments in the next verse-Isaiah 22:18-24. We would not argue that mirrors are inherently evil yet they were removed with the rings and bracelets. While I agree that the removal of jewelry can be an act of modesty the entirety of the chapter reveals that their removal was punishment for their misdeeds.

I believe that you must follow your convictions but here is some food for thought. We had a pastor bring in a bunch of different types of apples golden delicious, red delicious, Granny Smith, ect. Then he asked us to pick which one was perfect. However each Apple was "perfect" for the type of aple it was. He did all of this to remind us that Christian perfection isn't the same as uniformity. Your vision and practice of modesty will be different from mine. But is doesn't mean either one of us is not living up to this biblical principle. It means that we are simply different expressions of the modesty principle. So long as we let the Holy Spirit convict us we all will be fine.

dicapr said:

@blazinthru

I will ask you to read the entirety of those chapters. God is speaking of ill gotten riches, oppression of the rich, idolatry, and witchcraft in the first 3 chapters of Isaiah. The removal of jewels, headbands, fine clothes was because of pride. He also speaks of removing their mirrors and purses, and outer garments in the next verse-Isaiah 22:18-24. We would not argue that mirrors are inherently evil yet they were removed with the rings and bracelets.

While I agree that the removal of jewelry can be an act of modesty the entirety of the chapter reveals that their removal was punishment for their misdeeds.

I believe that you must follow your convictions but here is some food for thought.

We had a pastor bring in a bunch of different types of apples golden delicious, red delicious, Granny Smith, ect. Then he asked us to pick which one was perfect. However each Apple was "perfect" for the type of aple it was. He did all of this to remind us that Christian perfection isn't the same as uniformity.

Your vision and practice of modesty will be different from mine. But is doesn't mean either one of us is not living up to this biblical principle. It means that we are simply different expressions of the modesty principle. So long as we let the Holy Spirit convict us we all will be fine.

Click to expand...

This is a wonderful post dicapr. Thank you because it truly is beautifully expressed.

blazingthru said:

@JaneBond007, um yeah this was a personal attack and your point is well taken. Again I posted articles that I read. I agree with the articles, because I agree that If I can read it in the word and if God says the word is Jesus Christ then I need to be obedient. that is my point of view. I don't need the bible to speak everything word for word to be obedient. But thats me. I spoke on the clothes I would wear. I spoke about what I felt about my decision to go modest. Everyone else is free to be for or against. I like the negative because I need to support my reasons to go modest, but not to offend anyone. Whenever you make a decisions most times you need to know the answer for and against. I am learning that many are against, but deep down its a me thing.

I've learned that a christian has to be willing to be obedient no matter the cause and that when we make a decision to become a christian we have to deny ourselves luke 9:23 and that is not taught often. Self Denial. to be plain is not an easy decision if your use to living a certain way. I get that. In any case. I am not attacking anyone. This is a discussion about Modesty but its really about obedience. Lets face it Modesty does not fit in today s world. to be modest, God's standard of modesty, is to be different.

In Isaiah 3:16 God does not generalize about ornaments, but gives a long list of specific articles that were being worn by the “daughters of Zion.” Now, let’s notice whether God, the same yesterday, today, and forever, was pleased with the wearing of these things. “Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet … in that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, … the chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, … the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, The rings, and nose jewels” (Isaiah 3:16-21).

Let’s pause in the midst of this recital and ask the question, how will God take away these things? In the next chapter, verse 4, we read, “When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion … by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.” Don’t overlook the fact that God refers to all these objects of adornment as “filth.” He further describes most graphically the ones who survive the “washing away” of the ornament, “In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem” (Isaiah 4:2, 3).

In bold, clear strokes, the prophet reveals the abhorrence of God for the manifestations of pride in wearing ornaments. After the washing away of those artificial baubles, God describes the women as being “comely,” “holy,” and “beautiful.” Apparently, He does not appraise beauty in the same way that we do. The women put on all their jewelry to make themselves beautiful, but God said it was filthy. When it was all washed away, He said they were comely and beautiful. Do not miss the extreme significance of this truth. God uses that word “comely” to describe His Bride, the Church. “I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2).

Now this is ornaments that is in the judgement, it is serious. I can imagine what God feels about our choice of clothing. I am guilty. I have said all that I will do but I haven't done any of it. I am completely covered but I still wear pants. I do not have long skirts yet. So how could I judge anyone when I am making a commitment that I can't live up to yet. I hope the discussion continues on without me being personally attacked. but perhaps the issue instead. As for it being in GOD's will isn't it in the bible.

Click to expand...

But yet, you alluded to me and others being convicted by you as the Holy Spirit? Attack? That's what you've done up in here against others. Thanks. Scripture does use metaphors.

Hi Everyone:

This thread started out well; with wonderful exchanges with everyone. It's only being closed temporarily so I can read it through and find the needle which became a dagger and a sword.

It will be nice to start all over again.

Back soon