Pope Francis: "weird" Political And Morality Opinions?

kanozas

se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
I realize that the media spins much of what he says without theological context but I'm wondering what people think about his political thoughts and such. I'm a bit peeved by a group of people I truly respect who are downing his opinions on global warming. Maybe it's the Native person in me that comprehends that we cannot and do not have the right to destroy this planet as this is the one that feeds us and provides us shelter? How is that something weird? What about Pope Francis is promoting totalitarian governance by asking we take in refugees? Surely, we have to vet everyone and know the dangers of infiltrators but??? Hasn't the world generally ignored the plight of christians in the Middle-east for years?

I'd like to open a discussion here so that I can get other opinions. Yours are safe posted here. I don't comprehend and am leaning on the side of "white people" being salty when asked to share and be responsible. Pope Francis addressed to the crowds that we should not promote uncontrolled pursuit of wealth and power as to trample upon the rights of all of us. What say you about Pope Francis?


  • global warming and science pro/con

  • immigration in this country

  • global governance

  • power and wealth

  • any others
 
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Galadriel

Well-Known Member
I think we have a problem here in America, where we've come to make political ideology into a new religion. Many hardcore liberals/leftists treat politics as their religion and church, and many conservatives treat political conservatism as if it were synonymous with Christianity and church doctrine.

Pope Francis doesn't fit into what either of them want, and so both sides are left frustrated and confused.

On the economy/Capitalism, since the late 1800's the Catholic Church has held to a balanced teaching on economics that never completely fit in with Capitalism to begin with. There are some things that are agreed upon, such as the right for me to own my own land, benefit from the work of my hands or the benefits of starting my own business and making money, but Capitalism is not my religion and is not perfect, because there are people who (in Capitalist systems) exploit others and seek the Almighty Dollar even if they have to step on people's heads to do so. Just because someone points out the flaws of Capitalism doesn't mean he's automatically a Communist. There are more options/views on the spectrum than just Capitalist ---> Communist.

And it's very obvious the pope is not a Communist. Communism is an atheistic system which has been clashing with and persecuting Christianity since its inception. Communism is a humanist, atheistic socio-economic construct with horrible, horrible flaws. From Stalin to Pol Pot, these Communist, atheist systems have killed more people in the 20th Century alone than in all religious wars combined in human history. It suppresses human freedom, individual property rights, and attempts to make the State as God.

Yet, Capitalism isn't a perfect little darling. Capitalism is a human construct, a man-made system, so by its very nature it will be imperfect and have flaws. I have no obligation to come out swinging for and dying raising the banner for Capitalism. My loyalty and fighting is first and foremost to the Lord Jesus Christ, King of the Universe.

Do I think Capitalism is better than Communism? Yes, I do. I would rather be living here in America than in China, I'll tell you that much! However, this doesn't mean I can't critique Capitalism where it fails. And my Christian identity shouldn't be determined by what I believe or don't believe about Capitalism.

There are people within Capitalism who do exploit other people, whether it's a company CEO who turns a blind eye to the fact that his company uses sweatshop workers or child labor, or that guy who just made the news for upping the price of that HIV/AIDS medication from $13 a pill to $750 a pill. Both situations wrong, and both disgusting. YET, I don't automatically demonize a person just because she makes a million dollars after creating a new technology or heading a big company. There's no moral limit on how much money you could or should make--what's important is what place you give money in your life and how you treat other people.

As for the environment, I do believe that we should not be wasteful and that we should be good stewards. Creation is God's, not ours, so we are to show our respect for God's creative power by being good stewards of His creation. If we can reduce waste, then let's do it. If we can reduce pollution, then let's do it. Want to plant more trees? Cool. However, I do think we need to hear from both scientific sides of the debate when it comes to "climate change." Remember we used to call it "global warming," but when the scientists pointed out that the earth was actually cooling, we changed it to "climate change." It's also no secret that within the scientific establishment, you don't get the research grants or the recognition for coming up with results/findings that don't fit the dominant narrative, so I do think we need to be careful of that and take a look at different scientists' findings, and not just one side.

As for immigration, I'm all for immigration and I admire the people who go through the process to become citizens and embrace our country. My husband is an immigrant. English is not even his first language, but he learned English when he came here to the U.S., went to school, has U.S. citizenship, and holds down a job and supports me and our children. My BFF is Mexican American, also an immigrant. I am especially sympathetic to those who are fleeing persecution and violence in their home countries. I think this is the viewpoint Pope Francis is coming from--following what the Bible teaches about being hospitable to the alien/stranger, welcoming the downtrodden. I believe that's a good thing. With that said, this doesn't mean we should not have any immigration laws or procedures to enforce. For the sake of national security, and just handling the simple influx of people coming in and the physical and financial strain that comes with it, we need an orderly process so that we know who's coming into the country and why. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. If I were to go to Mexico or Central America, or over to Spain, I'm pretty sure I can't just walk in and set up shop. In fact, if I were to give birth in one of those countries as a non-citizen, my child would still be considered an American/American citizen. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Every country has its immigration laws and procedures, and it's their right as sovereign countries. The U.S. also has its laws and procedures, and in some cases our immigration is more generous than that of other countries--but I also acknowledge that we have improvements that need to be made. My best friend that I mentioned, while applying for U.S. citizenship, the immigration office lost one of her papers and then told her that she had to re-file the paper AND pay the $200 filing fee that went along with the paper, even though it was THEIR fault the paper was lost. That really sucks. Going the legal route can be a huge pain and financial strain, so on a human level I can understand the temptation to go a different route, especially if you're coming into the country with very little or nothing to begin with.

However, I dislike how people with genuine concerns are automatically branded as racist or xenophobic and their concerns are dismissed. I think there are legitimate concerns among everyday Americans on how millions of people in the country illegally affect them. As a mom, I'd be concerned if 50-65% of the children at my child's school can't speak English and the school must adjust its services and curriculum to accommodate this, because it does impact the education, time and resources for native English speakers. As an educator, it did become an issue I had to work with when I went in to teach 8th grade or 10th grade English, but half my students barely speak and write English--that is going to affect YOUR child and his/her education, and we already know it's tough for us to get quality public education in this country. There were some jobs as a teacher that I would have liked to apply for but didn't qualify for because I'm not fluent in Spanish. Why do I have to be fluent in another language in order to be an English teacher in certain cities in the country? That's a legitimate concern. We also have issues with certain emergency rooms in our state being closed down or the taxpayers having to foot the bill for people using the emergency rooms for everyday medical care. I don't know if it's been an issue in your state, but this has happened in California. And when I bring up these concerns, it doesn't mean illegal immigrants are bad people or that I hate them, but I (or people with the same concerns) are just bringing this to the table for discussion. We shouldn't be called names or shut down for bringing these to the table for discussion.

Overall, I was impressed with Pope Francis' visit. He came and preached to us in America. From the President and Congress, United Nations, all the way to everyday people, eating with the homeless, blessing the disabled, and visiting prisoners. He showed Christian compassion and mercy, and a deep love for other people. He wasn't here to be our political football or our political minion--he came to show us how to live the Gospel and to seek God.

Sorry for the long post, but these are my thoughts :)
 

kanozas

se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
I think there is a certain type of response to our concerns over safety when considering immigration that can be construed as racist and xenophobic. Some people are alarmed just because the people are Middle-eastern. We seem to forget that we do have ESL programs all over the U.S. and in the past, we had schools that taught in German language and others besides English. "Muslim" is the new "those people" and in the face of thousands of persecuted, even some of us christians can only look to the abundance we have and reject them as though it's going to disappear. Security is a given, common sense. However, how do we respond humanely to the situation? How did non-Indigenous people get here in the first place. I was so taken aback at the response of some of those because, in their own families, they had refugees from WWII but that's supposedly "ok."
 

Blackpearl1993

Well-Known Member
I agree with what both Galadriel and kanozas have said. I am glad to live in America. It's not perfect, but I do have freedoms that I could not currently enjoy in many other countries. On the issue of immigrants, I am of the viewpoint of Galadriel. I do have compassion for those escaping violent living situations in other countries. I have children and love them dearly, and I would seek a safer place if I were in the shoes of many immigrants. However, I do feel that we need to observe guidelines and laws.

The U.S. has always been "particular" about which immigrants are okay and which ones aren't. Remember when Haitian immigrants were made to turn their boats around as they tried to seek shelter in Florida? They begged and pleaded, but they were made to turn around and many drowned. I am in California. It is true that undocumented immigrants are costing residents here a lot of money. It is true what Galadriel posted about hospitals/emergency rooms her in California. It is also true that our schools are greatly affected. Also, many of the children who entered out country illegally over the spring and summer were infected with parasites and diseases that we must now treat them for in order to avoid an epidemic. Our colleges have fewer spots for admissions than ever before. Young people who are undocumented are able to receive financial aid and attend college, which limits the number of spots available for American citizens. This is unfair. I think it is hard for people in states that are less affected to really see all of the positives and negatives of this issue. California, Texas, Arizona, Florida (these are not the only ones) are all greatly affected and this situation is incredibly costly in more ways than one.
 

kanozas

se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón


Matthew 2:13-15


Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him."

Acts 18:2
Verse Concepts
And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, having recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. He came to them,

Deuteronomy 23:15-16
Verse Concepts
"You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you.

Matthew 25:35
Verse Concepts
'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;


Deuteronomy 33:27
Verse Concepts
"The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms; And He drove out the enemy from before you, And said, 'Destroy!'

2 Samuel 22:3
Verse Concepts
My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.

Psalm 9:9
Verse Concepts
The LORD also will be a stronghold for the oppressed, A stronghold in times of trouble;

Psalm 59:16
Verse Concepts
But as for me, I shall sing of Your strength; Yes, I shall joyfully sing of Your lovingkindness in the morning, For You have been my stronghold And a refuge in the day of my distress.

Isaiah 25:4
Verse Concepts
For You have been a defense for the helpless, A defense for the needy in his distress, A refuge from the storm, a shade from the heat; For the breath of the ruthless Is like a rain storm against a wall.

Jeremiah 16:19
Verse Concepts
O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no profit."

Nahum 1:7
Verse Concepts
The LORD is good, A stronghold in the day of trouble, And He knows those who take refuge in Him.

LINK
 
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