Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but we need to fight these people. They will not reason. War is justified against them.
The Official Catholic Thread
- Thread starter Galadriel
- Start date
I'm sorry but we need to fight these people. They will not reason. War is justified against them.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
I just started a novena to Our Lady Undoer of Knots. Instead of praying for specific things to be done, I'm going to start praying more for virtues. I'm not sure if that makes sense? For example instead of praying for God to send me a relationship, I will pray for God to take away any anxiety about my vocation and give me peace. I'm sure He will answer the latter prayer although it might not be time for Him to send the relationship. God bless You.
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Wonder when the catholic random thoughts thread will be back?....
Anyhoo, new apparitions approved of St. Joseph: http://m.ncregister.com/blog/joseph...tions-of-st.-joseph-are-approved#.V6XB9633aK0
Interesting given how much impurity and immodesty is in the world today.
Anyhoo, new apparitions approved of St. Joseph: http://m.ncregister.com/blog/joseph...tions-of-st.-joseph-are-approved#.V6XB9633aK0
Interesting given how much impurity and immodesty is in the world today.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
"He pointed out humanity is “increasingly obstinate in their crimes” because of concern for worldly pleasures “rather than the love of God and his Commandments. But God's justice is close at hand in a way never seen before and will come about suddenly upon the whole world.”
That should shake us, yet this most powerful saint extends a hope-filled solution. All those who honor his Chaste Heart “will receive the grace of my protection from all evils and dangers. For those who surrender to me will not be slaughtered by misfortunes, by wars, hunger, by diseases and other calamities, they will have my Heart as a refuge for their protection. Here, in my Heart, all will be protected against the divine justice in the days that will come. All who consecrate themselves to my Heart, honoring it, they will be looked upon by my Son Jesus with eyes of mercy, Jesus will pour out his love and will take to the glory of his Kingdom all those I put in my Heart.”
So, very Song of Ascents in Psalms!!! Thank you for this link.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=326829
The Three Days of Darkness
Question from Joe Solomon on 2/8/2002:
Where in the book of Revelations does it read about the three days of darkness and the end of time?
Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 2/18/2002:
The prophecy of three days of darkness is not in the Book of Revelation but in the revelations of the end times provided by Catholic prophets St. Caspar del Bufulo, Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, Blessed Elizabeth Canori-Mora and Blessed Mary of Jesus Crucified. These holy Catholics of the 19th century, the last two of whom Pope John Paul II beatified, speak of a Minor Tribulation of the world (minor compared to the Great Tribulation of the Antichrist at the end of the world), as a time of purification leading into an age of peace. This "era of peace" is presumably that prophesized to the children of Fatima, and which St. John Eudes, St. Louis de Monfort, and others, have spoken of variously as a Marian age, or an Eucharistic age, or a Social Reign of Jesus Christ. It is not, in Catholic prophecy, a physical reign of Jesus on the earth, such as the Protestants expect, since that is the heresy of millenarianism. Rather, it is a time in which the Church will flourish, the Gospel will be spread to the far corners of the earth, but which will eventually devolve into the time of the Antichrist, whom Christ will slay with the breath of His Coming. THAT will be the end.
As for the three days of darkness, when it is said all light will be extinguished and hell loosed upon the earth, it is said to be the culminating event of the Minor Tribulation, and follows upon what man has reaped by his own self-will: war, violence, natural calamities and disease. Is it to be taken literally or figuratively? I don't know. Regarding the Third Secret of Fatima the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith wrote that the prophecies of authentic private revelation, like those of Scripture, are symbolic. So, perhaps it refers to the times in which we live, in which hell does seem to be loosed. But symbolic prophecies can have exact historical fulfillments, as the shooting of the Pope did in connection with the Fatima secret. So, perhaps it will have some more literal fulfillment in an event of evident divine punishment. Even the Third Secret threatens that, in the angel's sword poised to strike the earth unless man repents. Finally, since prophecy is intended to change our behavior to conform to the will of God, it could be that these prophecies, from reliable and holy sources, could or have been mitigated (lessened in intensity, or even changed to a different event). Like the prophecies fortelling the coming of Christ, it is entirely possible that only after the events will Catholics be able to look back and identify their exact fulfillment.
For a thorough summary of the biblical, patristic and Catholic prophetic tradition regarding the end times, read Desmond Birch's Trial, Tribulation and Triumph (Santa Barbara, CA., Queenship Publishing).
The Three Days of Darkness
Question from Joe Solomon on 2/8/2002:
Where in the book of Revelations does it read about the three days of darkness and the end of time?
Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 2/18/2002:
The prophecy of three days of darkness is not in the Book of Revelation but in the revelations of the end times provided by Catholic prophets St. Caspar del Bufulo, Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, Blessed Elizabeth Canori-Mora and Blessed Mary of Jesus Crucified. These holy Catholics of the 19th century, the last two of whom Pope John Paul II beatified, speak of a Minor Tribulation of the world (minor compared to the Great Tribulation of the Antichrist at the end of the world), as a time of purification leading into an age of peace. This "era of peace" is presumably that prophesized to the children of Fatima, and which St. John Eudes, St. Louis de Monfort, and others, have spoken of variously as a Marian age, or an Eucharistic age, or a Social Reign of Jesus Christ. It is not, in Catholic prophecy, a physical reign of Jesus on the earth, such as the Protestants expect, since that is the heresy of millenarianism. Rather, it is a time in which the Church will flourish, the Gospel will be spread to the far corners of the earth, but which will eventually devolve into the time of the Antichrist, whom Christ will slay with the breath of His Coming. THAT will be the end.
As for the three days of darkness, when it is said all light will be extinguished and hell loosed upon the earth, it is said to be the culminating event of the Minor Tribulation, and follows upon what man has reaped by his own self-will: war, violence, natural calamities and disease. Is it to be taken literally or figuratively? I don't know. Regarding the Third Secret of Fatima the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith wrote that the prophecies of authentic private revelation, like those of Scripture, are symbolic. So, perhaps it refers to the times in which we live, in which hell does seem to be loosed. But symbolic prophecies can have exact historical fulfillments, as the shooting of the Pope did in connection with the Fatima secret. So, perhaps it will have some more literal fulfillment in an event of evident divine punishment. Even the Third Secret threatens that, in the angel's sword poised to strike the earth unless man repents. Finally, since prophecy is intended to change our behavior to conform to the will of God, it could be that these prophecies, from reliable and holy sources, could or have been mitigated (lessened in intensity, or even changed to a different event). Like the prophecies fortelling the coming of Christ, it is entirely possible that only after the events will Catholics be able to look back and identify their exact fulfillment.
For a thorough summary of the biblical, patristic and Catholic prophetic tradition regarding the end times, read Desmond Birch's Trial, Tribulation and Triumph (Santa Barbara, CA., Queenship Publishing).
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
My question: has this era of peace already happened? I just can't imagine things getting better and then getting worse again. It just seems like we're in a final stage...
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
I think it has. I remember reading something on this a few years ago. Revelations is not literal, which we know. Christ is reigning right now (in men's hearts). As far as the triumphant Second Coming, not yet.
https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm
Endtimes, Millennium, Rapture
The term "endtimes" applies both to the era of Christ's first coming (Heb 1:2, 1 Cor 10:11, Heb 9:26) and to the events immediately before his return and the end of the ages (Mt 24:13, 2 Tim 2:1, 2 Peter 3:3). The definitive Catholic teaching on the endtimes is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the discussion of the article of the Creed, "From thence He will come again to judge the living and the dead." [CCC 668-682]
As the Creed infallibly teaches, the Second Coming is associated with the end of the world and the Last Judgment. Therefore, it is NOT associated with any earlier time - such as to establish a "Millennium." The Catholic Church specifically condemns "millenarianism," according to which Jesus will establish a throne in this world and reign here for a thousand years [CCC 676]. She teaches instead that Jesus already reigns in eternity (1 Cor. 15:24-27, Rev. 4 & 5) and that in this world His reign, established as a seed, is found already in the Church [CCC 668-669]. This is the 1000 years, which is the Hebrew way of indicating an indefinite long time - in this case, the time between the first and second comings, the era of the Church, in other words the last days in the broadest sense.The Book of Revelation situates this era between the persecutions of the Roman antichrists of the first century and the final unleashing of evil at the end.
Naturally, non-Catholics cannot accept that the Catholic Church represents Christ in this world, so they are forced to look for a personal earthly reign somewhere out in the future. The notion that Jesus will come, reign, and then depart, so that the devil can trick the world again, is incompatible with the incomprehensible dignity of the Lord and His love for His people. Jesus' Coming will be definitive, triumphant and ever-lasting, NOT temporal and limited.
As for the Rapture, the meaning of 1 Thes 4:15-17 is that at the return of Christ (v.15) and the General Resurrection of the Dead (v.16), those who survive the persecution of the Antichrist will have no advantage in being resurrected over those who died before His Coming [CCC 1001]. All will go to meet Him and be with Him forever (v.17; cf. Rev 20:17-21:27).
The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,
1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church
2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)
3. a final trial of the Church "in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth." The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.
4. Christ's victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.
As Cardinal Ratzinger recently pointed out (in the context of the message of Fátima), we are not at the end of the world. In fact, the Second Coming (understood as the physical return of Christ) cannot occur until the full number of the Gentiles are converted, followed by "all Israel."
Approved Catholic mystics (Venerables, Blessed and Saints, approved apparitions) throw considerable light on this order, by prophesying a minor apostasy and tribulation toward the end of the world, after which will occur the reunion of Christians. Only later will the entire world fall away from Christ (the great apostasy) and the personal Antichrist arise and the Tribulation of the End occur.
Although this is not Catholic doctrine, arising as it does from private revelation, it conforms to what is occurring in our time, especially in light of Our Lady of Fátima's promise of an "Era of Peace." This "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" (other saints have spoken of a social reign of Jesus Christ when Jesus will reign in the hearts of men) would seem to occur prior to the rise of the Antichrist. The optimism of the Pope for the "New Evangelization" and a "Civilization of Love" in the Third Millennium of Christianity fits here, as well. This would place us, therefore, in the period just before the events spoken of in the Catechism, that is, on the verge of the evangelization of the entire world. Other interpretations are possible, but none seem to fit the facts as well, especially when approved mystics are studied, instead of merely alleged ones.
Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL
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Lucia
Well-Known Member
Rosary apps And podcast
Family Rosary's Mobile Rosary by Family Rosary, Inc.
https://appsto.re/us/OW8zC.i
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pray-rosary-bishop-barres/id871826336?mt=2
Family Rosary's Mobile Rosary by Family Rosary, Inc.
https://appsto.re/us/OW8zC.i
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pray-rosary-bishop-barres/id871826336?mt=2
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
wow!!!
https://cruxnow.com/rns/2016/08/16/us-lutherans-approve-agreement-catholic-church/
US Lutherans approve agreement with Catholic Church
Martin Luther, founder of Germany's Protestant (Lutheran) Church, nailed his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg. (Credit: Religion News Service file photo.)
Nearly 500 years after Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Castle Church door, the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. has approved a declaration recognizing “there are no longer church-dividing issues” on many points with the Roman Catholic Church.
Nearly 500 years after Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Castle Church door, the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. has approved a declaration recognizing “there are no longer church-dividing issues” on many points with the Roman Catholic Church.
The “Declaration on the Way” was approved 931-9 by the 2016 Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Churchwide Assembly held last week at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans.
ELCA Presiding Bishop Elizabeth A. Eaton called the declaration “historic” in a statement released by the denomination following the Aug. 10 vote.
“Though we have not yet arrived, we have claimed that we are, in fact, on the way to unity,” he said.
“This ‘Declaration on the Way’ helps us to realize more fully our unity in Christ with our Catholic partners, but it also serves to embolden our commitment to unity with all Christians,” Eaton said.
The declaration comes as the Lutheran and Catholic churches prepare to kick off a year of celebrations to mark the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.
Luther had touched off the Reformation on Oct. 31, 1517, when he nailed the 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany. That document included 95 questions and propositions he wanted to debate within the Catholic Church.
Most notably, the “Declaration on the Way” includes 32 “Statements of Agreement” where Lutherans and Catholics no longer have church-dividing differences on issues of church, ministry and the Eucharist. Those statements previously had been affirmed by the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs.
It also lists remaining differences between the two churches and next steps on addressing them.
Eaton pointed to past agreements reached by the ELCA and Catholic Church, as well, including 1999’s “Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.”
Last November, Pope Francis sparked controversy when he seemed to suggest a Lutheran could receive Communion in the Catholic Church, saying “life is greater than explanations and interpretations.”
The pontiff is scheduled to visit Sweden on Oct. 31 to preside at a joint service with Lutherans.
And the Vatican and the Lutheran World Federation released a joint document in 2013 titled “From Conflict to Communion” that focused on the progress made in Lutheran-Catholic dialogue in the past 50 years, rather than centuries of conflict.
The ELCA is one of the 10 largest Protestant denominations in the U.S. with more than 3.7 million members across the 50 states and the Caribbean region.
https://cruxnow.com/rns/2016/08/16/us-lutherans-approve-agreement-catholic-church/
US Lutherans approve agreement with Catholic Church
Martin Luther, founder of Germany's Protestant (Lutheran) Church, nailed his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg. (Credit: Religion News Service file photo.)
Nearly 500 years after Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Castle Church door, the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. has approved a declaration recognizing “there are no longer church-dividing issues” on many points with the Roman Catholic Church.
Nearly 500 years after Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Castle Church door, the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. has approved a declaration recognizing “there are no longer church-dividing issues” on many points with the Roman Catholic Church.
The “Declaration on the Way” was approved 931-9 by the 2016 Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Churchwide Assembly held last week at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans.
ELCA Presiding Bishop Elizabeth A. Eaton called the declaration “historic” in a statement released by the denomination following the Aug. 10 vote.
“Though we have not yet arrived, we have claimed that we are, in fact, on the way to unity,” he said.
“This ‘Declaration on the Way’ helps us to realize more fully our unity in Christ with our Catholic partners, but it also serves to embolden our commitment to unity with all Christians,” Eaton said.
The declaration comes as the Lutheran and Catholic churches prepare to kick off a year of celebrations to mark the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.
Luther had touched off the Reformation on Oct. 31, 1517, when he nailed the 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany. That document included 95 questions and propositions he wanted to debate within the Catholic Church.
Most notably, the “Declaration on the Way” includes 32 “Statements of Agreement” where Lutherans and Catholics no longer have church-dividing differences on issues of church, ministry and the Eucharist. Those statements previously had been affirmed by the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs.
It also lists remaining differences between the two churches and next steps on addressing them.
Eaton pointed to past agreements reached by the ELCA and Catholic Church, as well, including 1999’s “Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.”
Last November, Pope Francis sparked controversy when he seemed to suggest a Lutheran could receive Communion in the Catholic Church, saying “life is greater than explanations and interpretations.”
The pontiff is scheduled to visit Sweden on Oct. 31 to preside at a joint service with Lutherans.
And the Vatican and the Lutheran World Federation released a joint document in 2013 titled “From Conflict to Communion” that focused on the progress made in Lutheran-Catholic dialogue in the past 50 years, rather than centuries of conflict.
The ELCA is one of the 10 largest Protestant denominations in the U.S. with more than 3.7 million members across the 50 states and the Caribbean region.
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Pope Francis needs to stop it about Lutherans receiving communion. My understanding is they don't accept the Real Presence doctrine and they have women priests. Nope. They shouldn't receive.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
I wonder if Russia will be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary soon.
It's my understanding that Luther was still Marian and held to Eucharistic doctrine on the Real Presence. Wonder when they all changed belief in that???
It's my understanding that Luther was still Marian and held to Eucharistic doctrine on the Real Presence. Wonder when they all changed belief in that???
Lucia
Well-Known Member
Thanks for pointing this out, I hope that's not what he meant and they're taking it out of context. But if not then, El Papa should pray, think, discuss with Catholic Cardinals, and pray some more.
We should not and cannot concede real presence in the Eucharist and women Preists in the name of "so called" unification when we know that's not scripturally sound. Women Preists and deacons go against the very nature of how God established authority in the world and it takes them out from under Gods authority and protection. Christ is the head of the church, and man, then man is the head of woman and so on.
Lucia
Well-Known Member
I hope so.
The fact that Lutherans broke with the Catholic Church they took themselves out from under the direct authority and protection of Jesus and do not receive the full power, authority, protection of laying of hands or ordination as it should be, at best they only get partial ordination at worst nothing.
I'm not sure but I think there's some slight difference in how they consecrate it? But if a woman Lutheran priest is the one doing the consecrating the it's invalid because Jesus didn't lay hands on or give that authority to any woman, so that authority cannot then be given to women from any man since Jesus did not first establish it that way. so women have no authority to consecrate, lead a congregation, etc....
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Russian consecration already happened. Sister Lucia said JP II's consecration of the whole world to her immaculate heart satisfied what was asked.
That's the problem with breaking away from the church: Luther may have believed it but he opened the door for others to come later and change all that.
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Having seen an ordination this year, where men are called to marry the bride (the church) and literally lay down their lives for her it is VERY clear to me why a woman cannot be a priest. It's not biblical for a woman to lay down her life for her spouse. So no to female priests and no to shared communion with Protestants who don't believe what we believe.
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Ephesians 5. A women is not called to do alla dat lol.
Lucia
Well-Known Member
ITA no women ordination, period.
John 20:20-23
19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples* were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”* The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.k* [Jesus] said to them again,l “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”* And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,m “Receive the holy Spirit.*n Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
~He gave the disciples all men, the Holy Sprit and power to forgive and retain sins, and gave St Peter the keys of the kingdom and powers to bend and loose on earth and in heaven. Again he never did this with any of the women following him and in the previous verse John 19 Mary Magdalene was named but no where was she or any other women receive laying of the hands in ordination, for healing yes but not ordination.
Matthew 18:18-19
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on the earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
~Don't we have enough to do trying to be women to our fullest expression daughters, sisters, wives, mothers teachers caregivers without trying to be men on top of all that or go the feminist route of throwing away all the "feminine" things that is what God created us for and just be subpar imitation men.
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kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Those most likely are not the points of contention to where it would be allowed, though. However, there is a reason but not from any type of anti-feminine disdain, which I sense a little bit in this thread right about now. There should be concrete reasons given such as (for lurkers) the following:
https://www.ncronline.org/news/theology/why-not-women-priests-papal-theologian-explains
Why not women priests? The papal theologian explains
Vatican City
In October, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith dismissed Roy Bourgeois from the priesthood because of his participation in the invalid ordination of a woman.
Since then, a Jesuit in Wisconsin has had his priestly faculties suspended after he celebrated a liturgy with a woman purporting to be a Catholic priest, and the Redemptorist order has confirmed that one of its members is under Vatican investigation for alleged ambiguities "regarding fundamental areas of Catholic doctrine," apparently including the question of women's ordination.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that only men can receive holy orders because Jesus chose men as his apostles, and the "apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry." Blessed John Paul II wrote in 1994 that this teaching is definitive and not open to debate among Catholics.
Yet some Catholics persist in asking why, as traditional distinctions between the sexes break down in many areas of society, the Catholic clergy must remain an exclusively male vocation, and what this suggests about the church's understanding of women's worth and dignity.
Few are as well qualified to answer such questions as Dominican Fr. Wojciech Giertych.
Know any college freshmen? Share this great article with them as they transition to campus life!
As the theologian of the papal household, Giertych has the task of reviewing all speeches and texts submitted to Pope Benedict XVI to ensure they are free of doctrinal error. Although his office was not founded until the 13th century, the Dominican claims St. Paul the Apostle, who corrected St. Peter on important questions of church teaching, as his original forerunner. (A copy of Rembrandt's portrait of St. Paul in prison hangs on a wall in Giertych's apartment in the Apostolic Palace.)
"In theology, we base ourselves not on human expectations, but we base ourselves on the revealed word of God," the theologian told Catholic News Service. "We are not free to invent the priesthood according to our own customs, according to our own expectations."
Giertych rejects the idea that the all-male priesthood is a relic of obsolete social norms, as if such norms could have been binding on Jesus.
"Christ was courageous with respect to the local social customs, he was not afraid to be countercultural," Giertych said. "He didn't follow the expectations of the powerful, of Pilate, of Herod. He had his own work, his own mission."
According to Giertych, theologians cannot say why Jesus chose only men as his Apostles any more than they can explain the purposes of the incarnation or the Eucharist.
"In the mystery of faith, we need to be on our knees toward something that we received," he said.
Nevertheless, he said, theology can help illuminate the "internal coherence and beauty of the mystery which has been offered to us by God." (Read: we don't truly know)
"The son of God became flesh, but became flesh not as sexless humanity but as a male," Giertych said; and since a priest is supposed to serve as an image of Christ, his maleness is essential to that role.
Reflecting on differences between the sexes, Giertych suggested other reasons men are especially suited to the priesthood.
Men are more likely to think of God in terms of philosophical definitions and logical syllogisms, he said, a quality valuable for fulfilling a priest's duty to transmit church teaching.
Although the social and administrative aspects of church life are hardly off-limits to women, Giertych said priests love the church in a characteristically "male way" when they show concern "about structures, about the buildings of the church, about the roof of the church which is leaking, about the bishops' conference, about the concordat between the church and the state."
Giertych acknowledged that a Catholic woman might sincerely believe she is called to the priesthood, but said such a "subjective" belief does not indicate the objective existence of a vocation.
None of which means women hold an inferior place in the church, he said.
"Every baptized person, both male and female, participates in the priesthood of Christ through the sacrament of baptism, drawing the fruits of the paschal mystery to one's own soul," he said. "And maybe in some sense we could say that, in this, women are more apt to draw from the mystery of Christ, by the quality of their prayer life, by the quality of their faith."
Women are better able than men to perceive the "proximity of God" and enter into a relationship with him, Giertych said, pointing to the privileged role played by women in the New Testament.
"Women have a special access to the heart of Jesus," he said, "in a very vivid way of approaching him, of touching him, of praying with him, of pouring ointment on his head, of kissing his feet."
"The mission of the woman in the church is to convince the male that power is not most important in the church, not even sacramental power," he said. "What is most important is the encounter with the living God through faith and charity."
"So women don't need the priesthood," he said, "because their mission is so beautiful in the church anyway."
This special relationship, the theologian said, is essentially related to Jesus' maleness.
"I remember once a contemplative nun told me, 'Oh, wouldn't it be horrible if Jesus were a woman?' And it dawned on me that, for a woman, the access to Jesus in prayer is easier than for us men, because he's male," Giertych said. "The relationship of love, of attachment, the spousal relationship to Christ is easier for the woman."
https://www.ncronline.org/news/theology/why-not-women-priests-papal-theologian-explains
Why not women priests? The papal theologian explains
Vatican City
In October, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith dismissed Roy Bourgeois from the priesthood because of his participation in the invalid ordination of a woman.
Since then, a Jesuit in Wisconsin has had his priestly faculties suspended after he celebrated a liturgy with a woman purporting to be a Catholic priest, and the Redemptorist order has confirmed that one of its members is under Vatican investigation for alleged ambiguities "regarding fundamental areas of Catholic doctrine," apparently including the question of women's ordination.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that only men can receive holy orders because Jesus chose men as his apostles, and the "apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry." Blessed John Paul II wrote in 1994 that this teaching is definitive and not open to debate among Catholics.
Yet some Catholics persist in asking why, as traditional distinctions between the sexes break down in many areas of society, the Catholic clergy must remain an exclusively male vocation, and what this suggests about the church's understanding of women's worth and dignity.
Few are as well qualified to answer such questions as Dominican Fr. Wojciech Giertych.
Know any college freshmen? Share this great article with them as they transition to campus life!
As the theologian of the papal household, Giertych has the task of reviewing all speeches and texts submitted to Pope Benedict XVI to ensure they are free of doctrinal error. Although his office was not founded until the 13th century, the Dominican claims St. Paul the Apostle, who corrected St. Peter on important questions of church teaching, as his original forerunner. (A copy of Rembrandt's portrait of St. Paul in prison hangs on a wall in Giertych's apartment in the Apostolic Palace.)
"In theology, we base ourselves not on human expectations, but we base ourselves on the revealed word of God," the theologian told Catholic News Service. "We are not free to invent the priesthood according to our own customs, according to our own expectations."
Giertych rejects the idea that the all-male priesthood is a relic of obsolete social norms, as if such norms could have been binding on Jesus.
"Christ was courageous with respect to the local social customs, he was not afraid to be countercultural," Giertych said. "He didn't follow the expectations of the powerful, of Pilate, of Herod. He had his own work, his own mission."
According to Giertych, theologians cannot say why Jesus chose only men as his Apostles any more than they can explain the purposes of the incarnation or the Eucharist.
"In the mystery of faith, we need to be on our knees toward something that we received," he said.
Nevertheless, he said, theology can help illuminate the "internal coherence and beauty of the mystery which has been offered to us by God." (Read: we don't truly know)
"The son of God became flesh, but became flesh not as sexless humanity but as a male," Giertych said; and since a priest is supposed to serve as an image of Christ, his maleness is essential to that role.
Reflecting on differences between the sexes, Giertych suggested other reasons men are especially suited to the priesthood.
Men are more likely to think of God in terms of philosophical definitions and logical syllogisms, he said, a quality valuable for fulfilling a priest's duty to transmit church teaching.
Although the social and administrative aspects of church life are hardly off-limits to women, Giertych said priests love the church in a characteristically "male way" when they show concern "about structures, about the buildings of the church, about the roof of the church which is leaking, about the bishops' conference, about the concordat between the church and the state."
Giertych acknowledged that a Catholic woman might sincerely believe she is called to the priesthood, but said such a "subjective" belief does not indicate the objective existence of a vocation.
None of which means women hold an inferior place in the church, he said.
"Every baptized person, both male and female, participates in the priesthood of Christ through the sacrament of baptism, drawing the fruits of the paschal mystery to one's own soul," he said. "And maybe in some sense we could say that, in this, women are more apt to draw from the mystery of Christ, by the quality of their prayer life, by the quality of their faith."
Women are better able than men to perceive the "proximity of God" and enter into a relationship with him, Giertych said, pointing to the privileged role played by women in the New Testament.
"Women have a special access to the heart of Jesus," he said, "in a very vivid way of approaching him, of touching him, of praying with him, of pouring ointment on his head, of kissing his feet."
"The mission of the woman in the church is to convince the male that power is not most important in the church, not even sacramental power," he said. "What is most important is the encounter with the living God through faith and charity."
"So women don't need the priesthood," he said, "because their mission is so beautiful in the church anyway."
This special relationship, the theologian said, is essentially related to Jesus' maleness.
"I remember once a contemplative nun told me, 'Oh, wouldn't it be horrible if Jesus were a woman?' And it dawned on me that, for a woman, the access to Jesus in prayer is easier than for us men, because he's male," Giertych said. "The relationship of love, of attachment, the spousal relationship to Christ is easier for the woman."
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Lucia
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify. No there's no feminine disdain, it is what it is, but we have to point out feminist arguments that have found heir way into the church. Being a feminist and being feminine alot of times oppose each other and are not the same. Stating that women cannot be ordained is not to belittle women's capabilities it's what was established by Jesus not man.
Example: Feminist views tell us we can use contraception and have abortions cause it is liberating. Femininity tells us to protect all life and that we were created to give life and nurture life. Some feminist views go against our God created nature, whereas Feminity views encourage us to fulfill oir God given roles without feeling like we are missing out.
The whole question of women ordination comes from the feminist movement. Now femininity is not being downplayed or being taken as less than. The woman's feminine role is very important so much so that we shouldn't forget to acknowledge that although in certain situations we may have to take on some traditionally masculine duties and are capable to do so, that is not our primary role, so we can't get it twisted.
Example: Feminist views tell us we can use contraception and have abortions cause it is liberating. Femininity tells us to protect all life and that we were created to give life and nurture life. Some feminist views go against our God created nature, whereas Feminity views encourage us to fulfill oir God given roles without feeling like we are missing out.
The whole question of women ordination comes from the feminist movement. Now femininity is not being downplayed or being taken as less than. The woman's feminine role is very important so much so that we shouldn't forget to acknowledge that although in certain situations we may have to take on some traditionally masculine duties and are capable to do so, that is not our primary role, so we can't get it twisted.
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kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
It's not the question itself, it's how it was presented as though "how dare anyone think it should be possible." We simply do not know the full mystery of the faith and why everything is the way it is, as handed down by Christ. Gender and sex differ in the sense that we learn one of them socially. What is the feminine role then? Are women outside that role when they work outside the home? Women as leaders prohibited? No. Women can be Cardinals. Stating an obvious fact that women cannot be priests suffices as well as that we don't truly comprehend the entire mystery of the faith. It's coming across as though it's something nasty to scoff at to even entertain the thought and yet, I don't think that was the intent of any of prescribed structure. That's beside the fact that it will never happen as we know the church today.
Incidentally, this question is as old as time and a lot older than any feminist movement of today. Shrugs. It's like we are disdaining the thought of it rather than offering a factual answer as to why it's evolved as it has.
Incidentally, this question is as old as time and a lot older than any feminist movement of today. Shrugs. It's like we are disdaining the thought of it rather than offering a factual answer as to why it's evolved as it has.
Lucia
Well-Known Member
I see what you mean good points.
Well if that's how I came off that wasn't my intention I was trying to show my support for no women ordination.
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Well, I'm sorry as I don't want to make it so personal but I think that it's likewise palpable in many of the articles addressing the issue, "Oh, fathers have this quality and that quality..." blah, blah, blah. Maybe it's something totally beyond our human understanding. I dunno. You know, pigs are unkosher despite having split hooves lol (appearances of being kosher). They just don't chew their cud haha. Thank G-d that Mary is Queen of Heaven. I'm sure there are some men upset about that haha.
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kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Any advice for a saint medal for us? MY NEIGHBOR IS DEALING DRUGS NEXT DOOR. sighhhhhh 
Confirmation on the drugs are from the neighborhood kid who who is best friends with my kid because he cuts his yard as his summer job and they made mention of it two days ago. He saw the plants/setup. Someone else told me he had purple growing lights on late night and they suspected. I have once but didn't pay it any mind. You can see them from our driveway...right next to it. I brushed it off.
Yesterday, some weird smell, kinda like burning sage, was all over the place on Sunday morning. Weather cooled down so I had the windows open. I swear I saw a cloud of smoke waft in through our windows. Thought someone was burning yard leaves which is illegal. Then I got scared because there have been about 5 house fires in this area this summer and I know I need electrical work done. It dissipated....then it happened again about 5 times. I was wondering who on earth was having trouble lighting their fireplace or whatever. I was checking my property because this weird smell permeated TWO LARGE rooma of my house and it lingered. Then it hit me, that was WEED MAN!!! It got so bad, I had to close our windows. This man was probably smoking a huge bong next door and blowing it out his window adjacent to our game room. I'm worried the Feds might think it's our house if he's ever raided. So, people were right, this fooh is dealing right next door and we just happen to be the Black people on this block. I won't say anything to the police but dang. SMH. I need a saint's medal in the yard or something. Any suggestions? In a day and age that Black people are under siege, this fool
is endangering us with the potential, mistaken police raid. 
Confirmation on the drugs are from the neighborhood kid who who is best friends with my kid because he cuts his yard as his summer job and they made mention of it two days ago. He saw the plants/setup. Someone else told me he had purple growing lights on late night and they suspected. I have once but didn't pay it any mind. You can see them from our driveway...right next to it. I brushed it off.
Yesterday, some weird smell, kinda like burning sage, was all over the place on Sunday morning. Weather cooled down so I had the windows open. I swear I saw a cloud of smoke waft in through our windows. Thought someone was burning yard leaves which is illegal. Then I got scared because there have been about 5 house fires in this area this summer and I know I need electrical work done. It dissipated....then it happened again about 5 times. I was wondering who on earth was having trouble lighting their fireplace or whatever. I was checking my property because this weird smell permeated TWO LARGE rooma of my house and it lingered. Then it hit me, that was WEED MAN!!! It got so bad, I had to close our windows. This man was probably smoking a huge bong next door and blowing it out his window adjacent to our game room. I'm worried the Feds might think it's our house if he's ever raided. So, people were right, this fooh is dealing right next door and we just happen to be the Black people on this block. I won't say anything to the police but dang. SMH. I need a saint's medal in the yard or something. Any suggestions? In a day and age that Black people are under siege, this fool
is endangering us with the potential, mistaken police raid.
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kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
History of her life and martyrdom:
here
Symbols:
Crown – of royal birth
Anchor – early Christian symbol of being ‘anchored by Christ’
Palms – martyrdom
Arrows – method of martyrdom
NOVENA PRAYER TO SAINT PHILOMENA
O Faithful Virgin and glorious martyr, St. Philomena, who works so many miracles on behalf of the poor and sorrowing, have pity on me. Thou knowest the multitude and diversity of my needs. Behold me at thy feet, full of misery, but full of hope. I entreat thy charity, O great Saint! Graciously hear me and obtain from God a favorable answer to the request which I now humbly lay before thee.. (mention your intention).
I am firmly convinced that through thy merits, through the scorn, the sufferings and the death thou didst endure, united to the merits of the Passion and death of Jesus, thy Spouse, I shall obtain what I ask of thee, and in the joy of my heart I will bless God, who is admirable in His Saints. Amen.
End with:
Saint Philomena, powerful with God, pray for us!
Saint Philomena, powerful with God, hear our prayers!
here
Symbols:
Crown – of royal birth
Anchor – early Christian symbol of being ‘anchored by Christ’
Palms – martyrdom
Arrows – method of martyrdom
NOVENA PRAYER TO SAINT PHILOMENA
O Faithful Virgin and glorious martyr, St. Philomena, who works so many miracles on behalf of the poor and sorrowing, have pity on me. Thou knowest the multitude and diversity of my needs. Behold me at thy feet, full of misery, but full of hope. I entreat thy charity, O great Saint! Graciously hear me and obtain from God a favorable answer to the request which I now humbly lay before thee.. (mention your intention).
I am firmly convinced that through thy merits, through the scorn, the sufferings and the death thou didst endure, united to the merits of the Passion and death of Jesus, thy Spouse, I shall obtain what I ask of thee, and in the joy of my heart I will bless God, who is admirable in His Saints. Amen.
End with:
Saint Philomena, powerful with God, pray for us!
Saint Philomena, powerful with God, hear our prayers!
kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
Found another history. I believe that the old revealed histories of the saints who suffered martydom under the Romans are entirely edifying for our faith, esp. in these days. Incredible story of her life.
https://rosariorodriguez.wordpress.com/st-philomena-filomena/
“To Philomena, Nothing is refused”
After 1500 years of obscurity in the catacombs, the precious relics of St. Philomena, Virgin and Martyr, were discovered on May 24th and revealed on May 25th 1802. So numerous and striking were the miracles obtained through her powerful intercession that, within 35 years of her discovery, this young Grecian Princess was raised to the Altar and proclaimed the Wonder Worker of the 19th century. Shrines, altars, and monuments were erected world wide in honor of St. Philomena, Powerful with God!
“My children, St. Philomena has great power with God. Her virginity and generosity in embracing heroic martydom has rendered her so agreeable to God that He will never refuse anything that she asks for us.” -St. John Vianney, the Curé of Ars
Her story as revealed to the Foundress of the Oblates of Our Lady of Sorrows, Mother Maria Luisa di Gesù, a Dominican Tertiary.
My dear Sister, I am the daughter of a Prince who governed a small state in Greece. My mother is also of royal blood. My parents were without children. They were idolaters. They continually offered sacrifices and prayers to their false gods.
A doctor from Rome named Publius lived in the palace in the service of my father. This doctor professed Christianity. Seeing the affliction of my parents, by the impulse of the Holy Spirit, he spoke to them of Christianity, and promised to pray for them if they consented to receive Baptism. The grace which accompanied his words enlightened their understanding and triumphed over their will. They became Christians and obtained the long desired happiness that Publius had assured them as the reward of their conversion. At the moment of my birth, they gave me the name of “Lumena,” an allusion to the light of Faith of which I had been, as it were, the fruit. The day of my Baptism they called me “Filumena,” or “Daughter of Light,” because on that day I was born to the Faith. The affection which my parents bore me was so great that they had me always with them.
It was on this account that they took me to Rome on a journey that my father was obliged to make on the occasion of an unjust war with which he was threatened by the haughty Diocletian. I was then thirteen years old. On our arrival in the capital of the world, we proceeded to the palace of the Emperor and were admitted for an audience. As soon as Diocletian saw me, his eyes were fixed upon me. He appeared to be pre-possessed in this manner during the entire time that my father was stating with animated feelings everything that could serve for his defense.
As soon as Father had ceased to speak, the Emperor desired him to be disturbed no longer, to banish all fear, to think only of living in happiness. These are the Emperor’s words, “I shall place at your disposal all the force of the Empire. I ask only one thing, that is the hand of your daughter.” My father, dazzled with an honor he was far from expecting, willingly acceded on the spot to the proposal of the Emperor.
When we returned to our own dwelling, Father and Mother did all they could to induce me to yield to Diocletian’s wishes and theirs. I cried, “Do you wish, that for the love of a man, I should break the promise I have made to Jesus Christ? My virginity belongs to him. I can no longer dispose of it.” “But you were young then, too young,” answered my father, “to have formed such an engagement.” He joined the most terrible threats to the command that he gave me to accept the hand of Diocletian. The grace of my God rendered me invincible, and my father, not being able to make the Emperor relent, in order to disengage himself from the promise he had given, was obliged by Diocletian to bring me to the Imperial Chamber.
I had to withstand for some time beforehand a new attack from my father’s anger. My mother, uniting her efforts to his, endeavored to conquer my resolution. Caresses, threats, everything was employed to reduce me to compliance. At last, I saw both of my parents fall at my knees and say to me with tears in their eyes, “My child have pity on your father, your mother, your country, our country, our subjects.” “No! No,” I answered them. “My virginity, which I have vowed to God, comes before everything, before you, before my country. My kingdom is heaven.”
My words plunged them into despair and they brought me before the Emperor, who on his part did all in his power to win me. But his promises, his allurements, his threats, were equally useless. He then flew into a violent fit of anger and, influenced by the Devil, had me cast into one of the prisons of the palace, where he had me loaded with chains. Thinking that pain and shame would weaken the courage with which my Divine Spouse inspired me, he came to see me every day. After several days, the Emperor issued an order for my chains to be loosed, that I might take a small portion of bread and water. He renewed his attacks, some of which would have been fatal to purity had it not been for the grace of God.
The defeats which he always experienced were for me the preludes to new tortures. Prayer supported me. I did not cease to recommend myself to Jesus and his most pure Mother. My captivity had lasted thirty-seven days, when, in the midst of a heavenly light, I saw Mary holding the Divine Son in her arms. “My daughter,” she said to me, “three days more of prison and after forty days you shall leave this state of pain.” Such happy news made my heart beat with joy, but as the Queen of Angels had added that I should quit my prison, to sustain, in frightful torments a combat far more terrible than those preceding, I fell instantly from joy to the most cruel anguish; I thought it would kill me. “Have courage, my child,” Mary then said to me; “are you unaware of the love of predilection that I bear for you? The name, which you received in baptism, is the pledge of it for the resemblance which it has to that of my Son and to mine. You are called Lumena, as your Spouse is called Light, Star, Sun, as I myself am called Aurora, Star, the Moon in the fullness of its brightness, and Sun. Fear not, I will aid you. Now nature, whose weakness humbles you, asserts its law. In the moment of combat, grace will come to lend you its force, and your Angel, who was also mine, Gabriel, whose name expresses strength, will come to your aid. I will recommend you especially to his care, as the well beloved among my children.” These words of the Queen of virgins gave me courage again, and the vision disappeared, leaving my prison filled with a celestial perfume. I experienced a joy out of this world. Something indefinable.
What the Queen of Angels had prepared me for was soon experienced. Diocletian, despairing of bending me, decided on public chastisement to offend my virtue. He condemned me to be stripped and scourged like the Spouse I preferred to him. These are his horrifying words. “Since she is not ashamed to prefer to an Emperor like me, a malefactor condemned to an infamous death by his own people, she deserves that my justice shall treat her as he was treated.” The prison guards hesitated to unclothe me entirely but they did tie me to a column in the presence of the great men of the court. They lashed me with violence until I was bathed in blood. My whole body felt like one open wound, but I did not faint.
The tyrant had me dragged back to the dungeon, expecting me to die. I hoped to join my heavenly Spouse. Two angels, shining with light, appeared to me in the darkness. They poured a soothing balm on my wounds, bestowing on me a vigor I did not have before the torture.
When the Emperor was informed by the change that had come over me, he had me brought before him. He viewed me with a greedy desire and tried to persuade me that I owed my healing and regained vigor to Jupiter, another god, that he, the Emperor, had sent to me. He attempted to impress me with his belief that Jupiter desired me to be Empress of Rome. Joining to these seductive words promises of great honor, including the most flattering words, Diocletian tried to caress me. Fiendishly, he attempted to complete the work of Hell which he had begun. The Divine Spirit to whom I am indebted for constancy in preserving my purity seemed to fill me with light and knowledge, and to all the proofs which I gave of the solidity of our Faith, neither Diocletian or his courtiers could find an answer.
Then, the frenzied Emperor dashed at me, commanding a guard to chain an anchor around my neck and bury me deep in the waters of the Tiber. The order was executed. I was cast into the water, but God sent me two angels who unfastened the anchor. It fell into the river mud, where it remains no doubt to the present time. The angels transported me gently in full view of the multitude upon the riverbank. I came back unharmed, not even wet, after being plunged with the heavy anchor.
When a cry of joy rose from the debauchers on the shore, and so many embraced Christianity by proclaiming their belief in my God, Diocletian attributed my preservation to secret magic. Then the Emperor had me dragged through the streets of Rome and shot with a shower of arrows. My blood flowed, but I did not faint. Diocletian thought that I was dying and commanded the guards to carry me back to the dungeon. Heaven honored me with a new favor there. I fell into a sweet sleep, and I found myself, on awaking, perfectly cured.
Diocletian learned about it. “Well, then,” he cried in a fit of rage, “let her be pierced with sharp darts a second time, and let her die in that torture.” They hastened to obey him. Again, the archers bent their bows. They gathered all their strength, but the arrows refused to second their intentions. The Emperor was present. In a rage, he called me a magician, and thinking that the action of fire could destroy the enchantment, ordered the darts to be made red in a furnace and directed against my heart. He was obeyed, but these darts, after having passed through a part of the space which they were to cross to come to me, took a quite contrary direction and returned to strike those by whom they had been hurled. Six of the archers were killed by them. Several among them renounced paganism, and the people began to render public testimony to the power of God that protected me.
These murmurs and acclamations infuriated the tyrant. He determined to hasten my death by ordering my head to be cut off. My soul took flight towards my heavenly spouse, who placed me, with the crown of virginity and the palm of martyrdom, in a distinguished place among the elect. The day that was so happy for me and saw me enter into glory was Friday, the third hour after mid-day, the same hour that saw my Divine Master expire.
https://rosariorodriguez.wordpress.com/st-philomena-filomena/
“To Philomena, Nothing is refused”
After 1500 years of obscurity in the catacombs, the precious relics of St. Philomena, Virgin and Martyr, were discovered on May 24th and revealed on May 25th 1802. So numerous and striking were the miracles obtained through her powerful intercession that, within 35 years of her discovery, this young Grecian Princess was raised to the Altar and proclaimed the Wonder Worker of the 19th century. Shrines, altars, and monuments were erected world wide in honor of St. Philomena, Powerful with God!
“My children, St. Philomena has great power with God. Her virginity and generosity in embracing heroic martydom has rendered her so agreeable to God that He will never refuse anything that she asks for us.” -St. John Vianney, the Curé of Ars
Her story as revealed to the Foundress of the Oblates of Our Lady of Sorrows, Mother Maria Luisa di Gesù, a Dominican Tertiary.
My dear Sister, I am the daughter of a Prince who governed a small state in Greece. My mother is also of royal blood. My parents were without children. They were idolaters. They continually offered sacrifices and prayers to their false gods.
A doctor from Rome named Publius lived in the palace in the service of my father. This doctor professed Christianity. Seeing the affliction of my parents, by the impulse of the Holy Spirit, he spoke to them of Christianity, and promised to pray for them if they consented to receive Baptism. The grace which accompanied his words enlightened their understanding and triumphed over their will. They became Christians and obtained the long desired happiness that Publius had assured them as the reward of their conversion. At the moment of my birth, they gave me the name of “Lumena,” an allusion to the light of Faith of which I had been, as it were, the fruit. The day of my Baptism they called me “Filumena,” or “Daughter of Light,” because on that day I was born to the Faith. The affection which my parents bore me was so great that they had me always with them.
It was on this account that they took me to Rome on a journey that my father was obliged to make on the occasion of an unjust war with which he was threatened by the haughty Diocletian. I was then thirteen years old. On our arrival in the capital of the world, we proceeded to the palace of the Emperor and were admitted for an audience. As soon as Diocletian saw me, his eyes were fixed upon me. He appeared to be pre-possessed in this manner during the entire time that my father was stating with animated feelings everything that could serve for his defense.
As soon as Father had ceased to speak, the Emperor desired him to be disturbed no longer, to banish all fear, to think only of living in happiness. These are the Emperor’s words, “I shall place at your disposal all the force of the Empire. I ask only one thing, that is the hand of your daughter.” My father, dazzled with an honor he was far from expecting, willingly acceded on the spot to the proposal of the Emperor.
When we returned to our own dwelling, Father and Mother did all they could to induce me to yield to Diocletian’s wishes and theirs. I cried, “Do you wish, that for the love of a man, I should break the promise I have made to Jesus Christ? My virginity belongs to him. I can no longer dispose of it.” “But you were young then, too young,” answered my father, “to have formed such an engagement.” He joined the most terrible threats to the command that he gave me to accept the hand of Diocletian. The grace of my God rendered me invincible, and my father, not being able to make the Emperor relent, in order to disengage himself from the promise he had given, was obliged by Diocletian to bring me to the Imperial Chamber.
I had to withstand for some time beforehand a new attack from my father’s anger. My mother, uniting her efforts to his, endeavored to conquer my resolution. Caresses, threats, everything was employed to reduce me to compliance. At last, I saw both of my parents fall at my knees and say to me with tears in their eyes, “My child have pity on your father, your mother, your country, our country, our subjects.” “No! No,” I answered them. “My virginity, which I have vowed to God, comes before everything, before you, before my country. My kingdom is heaven.”
My words plunged them into despair and they brought me before the Emperor, who on his part did all in his power to win me. But his promises, his allurements, his threats, were equally useless. He then flew into a violent fit of anger and, influenced by the Devil, had me cast into one of the prisons of the palace, where he had me loaded with chains. Thinking that pain and shame would weaken the courage with which my Divine Spouse inspired me, he came to see me every day. After several days, the Emperor issued an order for my chains to be loosed, that I might take a small portion of bread and water. He renewed his attacks, some of which would have been fatal to purity had it not been for the grace of God.
The defeats which he always experienced were for me the preludes to new tortures. Prayer supported me. I did not cease to recommend myself to Jesus and his most pure Mother. My captivity had lasted thirty-seven days, when, in the midst of a heavenly light, I saw Mary holding the Divine Son in her arms. “My daughter,” she said to me, “three days more of prison and after forty days you shall leave this state of pain.” Such happy news made my heart beat with joy, but as the Queen of Angels had added that I should quit my prison, to sustain, in frightful torments a combat far more terrible than those preceding, I fell instantly from joy to the most cruel anguish; I thought it would kill me. “Have courage, my child,” Mary then said to me; “are you unaware of the love of predilection that I bear for you? The name, which you received in baptism, is the pledge of it for the resemblance which it has to that of my Son and to mine. You are called Lumena, as your Spouse is called Light, Star, Sun, as I myself am called Aurora, Star, the Moon in the fullness of its brightness, and Sun. Fear not, I will aid you. Now nature, whose weakness humbles you, asserts its law. In the moment of combat, grace will come to lend you its force, and your Angel, who was also mine, Gabriel, whose name expresses strength, will come to your aid. I will recommend you especially to his care, as the well beloved among my children.” These words of the Queen of virgins gave me courage again, and the vision disappeared, leaving my prison filled with a celestial perfume. I experienced a joy out of this world. Something indefinable.
What the Queen of Angels had prepared me for was soon experienced. Diocletian, despairing of bending me, decided on public chastisement to offend my virtue. He condemned me to be stripped and scourged like the Spouse I preferred to him. These are his horrifying words. “Since she is not ashamed to prefer to an Emperor like me, a malefactor condemned to an infamous death by his own people, she deserves that my justice shall treat her as he was treated.” The prison guards hesitated to unclothe me entirely but they did tie me to a column in the presence of the great men of the court. They lashed me with violence until I was bathed in blood. My whole body felt like one open wound, but I did not faint.
The tyrant had me dragged back to the dungeon, expecting me to die. I hoped to join my heavenly Spouse. Two angels, shining with light, appeared to me in the darkness. They poured a soothing balm on my wounds, bestowing on me a vigor I did not have before the torture.
When the Emperor was informed by the change that had come over me, he had me brought before him. He viewed me with a greedy desire and tried to persuade me that I owed my healing and regained vigor to Jupiter, another god, that he, the Emperor, had sent to me. He attempted to impress me with his belief that Jupiter desired me to be Empress of Rome. Joining to these seductive words promises of great honor, including the most flattering words, Diocletian tried to caress me. Fiendishly, he attempted to complete the work of Hell which he had begun. The Divine Spirit to whom I am indebted for constancy in preserving my purity seemed to fill me with light and knowledge, and to all the proofs which I gave of the solidity of our Faith, neither Diocletian or his courtiers could find an answer.
Then, the frenzied Emperor dashed at me, commanding a guard to chain an anchor around my neck and bury me deep in the waters of the Tiber. The order was executed. I was cast into the water, but God sent me two angels who unfastened the anchor. It fell into the river mud, where it remains no doubt to the present time. The angels transported me gently in full view of the multitude upon the riverbank. I came back unharmed, not even wet, after being plunged with the heavy anchor.
When a cry of joy rose from the debauchers on the shore, and so many embraced Christianity by proclaiming their belief in my God, Diocletian attributed my preservation to secret magic. Then the Emperor had me dragged through the streets of Rome and shot with a shower of arrows. My blood flowed, but I did not faint. Diocletian thought that I was dying and commanded the guards to carry me back to the dungeon. Heaven honored me with a new favor there. I fell into a sweet sleep, and I found myself, on awaking, perfectly cured.
Diocletian learned about it. “Well, then,” he cried in a fit of rage, “let her be pierced with sharp darts a second time, and let her die in that torture.” They hastened to obey him. Again, the archers bent their bows. They gathered all their strength, but the arrows refused to second their intentions. The Emperor was present. In a rage, he called me a magician, and thinking that the action of fire could destroy the enchantment, ordered the darts to be made red in a furnace and directed against my heart. He was obeyed, but these darts, after having passed through a part of the space which they were to cross to come to me, took a quite contrary direction and returned to strike those by whom they had been hurled. Six of the archers were killed by them. Several among them renounced paganism, and the people began to render public testimony to the power of God that protected me.
These murmurs and acclamations infuriated the tyrant. He determined to hasten my death by ordering my head to be cut off. My soul took flight towards my heavenly spouse, who placed me, with the crown of virginity and the palm of martyrdom, in a distinguished place among the elect. The day that was so happy for me and saw me enter into glory was Friday, the third hour after mid-day, the same hour that saw my Divine Master expire.
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Has anyone considered joining a 3rd order as a lay person?
