Michelle Obama’s Rules Of Assimilation (nytimes Opinion Piece) Do You Agree?

Miss_Luna

Well-Known Member
I've felt this way for a while, but I would never say it out loud amongst non-Black people :look:

After reading Becoming, I felt like I was missing something...I have been a "first" in a few programs in my life and I really wanted to get her perspective on how she remained unapologetically Black and maintained her integrity when dealing with conscious and unconscious bias from non-Black people. I didn't get that, at all. It was more like how she modified her behavior and held her head high. I wanted to know how she managed to not roll her eyes or flare her nostrils when someone mentioned her hair or her body type, etc.

But then I thought that this book isn't for "us", it's for everybody. That made me sad.

I have an executive coach that is an older Black woman, around Michelle's age, and she received feedback that I was too direct and it offended a white woman. The white woman told my coach that she was probably offended because she's not used to young Black women speaking up for themselves. My coach told me to temper my speech to make these white women more comfortable. I'm the only Black person in the group so it would be me speaking like a child, while everyone else says whatever tf they want. So I told her if I have to change who I am to accommodate every white woman then I'm not being myself and I'd rather not work at a place that doesn't accept me. That was the millenial in me with a no effs given. I expected Becoming to discuss these kinds of experiences and it frustrated me.
 

Everything Zen

Well-Known Member
Sigh... Y’all gonna make me not finish this book. :nono: I’m only on the chapter where she just got the letter to Princeton.
 

Everything Zen

Well-Known Member
Oh I’m going to finish it. I just think the Millenial generation is going to have to carry the torch at this point. I think people are asking too much of Michelle and the baby boomers. They’ve done what they can from their perspective.

@Miss_Luna I can relate to your work experience and I think our generation is used to giving the finger to those conventions. We’re making strides in spite of the micro and macro aggressions that come our way and still speaking up and out about our experiences. We don’t need Michelle to speak for us. It would be nice but she is an individual and as others said maybe she’s still evolving.
 

Ms. Tarabotti

Well-Known Member
I haven't read the book yet.

I think that it's the tension that many 'firsts' feel- how do you succeed while being true to yourself. The majority feel that you are too whatever (too black, too female, etc) while your own group feels that you are not 'whatever' (fill in the blank) enough in the space that you are in.



I've felt this way for a while, but I would never say it out loud amongst non-Black people :look:

After reading Becoming, I felt like I was missing something...I have been a "first" in a few programs in my life and I really wanted to get her perspective on how she remained unapologetically Black and maintained her integrity when dealing with conscious and unconscious bias from non-Black people. I didn't get that, at all. It was more like how she modified her behavior and held her head high. I wanted to know how she managed to not roll her eyes or flare her nostrils when someone mentioned her hair or her body type, etc.

But then I thought that this book isn't for "us", it's for everybody. That made me sad.

I have an executive coach that is an older Black woman, around Michelle's age, and she received feedback that I was too direct and it offended a white woman. The white woman told my coach that she was probably offended because she's not used to young Black women speaking up for themselves. My coach told me to temper my speech to make these white women more comfortable. I'm the only Black person in the group so it would be me speaking like a child, while everyone else says whatever tf they want. So I told her if I have to change who I am to accommodate every white woman then I'm not being myself and I'd rather not work at a place that doesn't accept me. That was the millenial in me with a no effs given. I expected Becoming to discuss these kinds of experiences and it frustrated me.

Oh I’m going to finish it. I just think the Millenial generation is going to have to carry the torch at this point. I think people are asking too much of Michelle and the baby boomers. They’ve done what they can from their perspective.

@Miss_Luna I can relate to your work experience and I think our generation is used to giving the finger to those conventions. We’re making strides in spite of the micro and macro aggressions that come our way and still speaking up and out about our experiences. We don’t need Michelle to speak for us. It would be nice but she is an individual and as others said maybe she’s still evolving.

And future generations might say that this millennial generation still didn't do enough.
 

ScorpioBeauty09

Well-Known Member
Oh I’m going to finish it. I just think the Millenial generation is going to have to carry the torch at this point. I think people are asking too much of Michelle and the baby boomers. They’ve done what they can from their perspective.

@Miss_Luna I can relate to your work experience and I think our generation is used to giving the finger to those conventions. We’re making strides in spite of the micro and macro aggressions that come our way and still speaking up and out about our experiences. We don’t need Michelle to speak for us. It would be nice but she is an individual and as others said maybe she’s still evolving.
I can let Michelle as an individual off the hook. She's only one person. But the Boomers as a whole can and should do more. Or at the least they can get out of the way so we can carry the torch.
 

Everything Zen

Well-Known Member
^^^^ Now I’ll agree with you about wanting them to get out of the way but actually the baby boomers are still waiting for some of the older generations to move over.

Last presidential election- the average age of everyone running was like 70. Nancy Pelosi is 78 years old but she was exactly who we needed as Speaker. I’m not saying that older people need to go knit in a retirement home but they are staying in positions longer. Then everyone has the nerve to wag fingers at Millenials and delayed milestones of achievement in adulthood.
 

Southernbella.

Well-Known Member
I think Michelle’s book speaks HER personal journey and what she has been through, what she’s had to do and still in a process of becoming.

The book was not mean to be a blueprint for other black women.

The Obamas did all they could, while being in a constant spotlight, under scrutiny of people just waiting for them to misstep.

Being the “first” placed an even bigger burden because many black folks had unrealistic expectations that Obama was coming to be President of black America and he would under almost 400 years of injustice in 8 years. When he became president, McConnell et al vowed to block everything he tried to pass. He still managed to get a lot done that would benefit black people (without outright stating so). He only had control for 2 out of the 8 years.

Michelle couldn’t have been a better example of a First Lady, yet she was unmercifully criticized at every turn. The programs she implemented as First Lady positively affected black kids. Better food in public schools for one, was huge.

They cracked the ceiling but it’s not broken. I think the writer’s article is unfair because (1) unrealistic expectations and (2) wrong interpretation of the purpose of the book.

The Obamas are 2 people out of 330+ million. They did what they could to further the conversation. More black people are getting involved in communities, schools, politics etc. It’s not enough but it’s promising. Barrack talking to black males about alternatives to the living and being successful, is not chastising or talking down. It’s just stating that that way hasn’t done too well for you, how about you do something different.

Re: the bolded...
Barack Obama should not have gone to Morehouse and talked about not being lazy and blaming white people. An HBCU, graduating black men who have made something of themselves, and THAT'S what he talked about. Or visiting the CBC and telling them to stop whining and put their shoes on and do some work. An organization filled with people who were beaten and attacked by dogs and water hoses and whatnot.

Nah. He's always been a condescending person towards AAs, a group who paved the way for him to even become president. Sorry, I'm AA and I'm never giving him passes on that and it's why even when he does manage to read a room and say the right thing, I'm not applauding it as much as feeling like ok, so he DOES know how. He just chooses not to.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post.
 
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Southernbella.

Well-Known Member
I've felt this way for a while, but I would never say it out loud amongst non-Black people :look:

After reading Becoming, I felt like I was missing something...I have been a "first" in a few programs in my life and I really wanted to get her perspective on how she remained unapologetically Black and maintained her integrity when dealing with conscious and unconscious bias from non-Black people. I didn't get that, at all. It was more like how she modified her behavior and held her head high. I wanted to know how she managed to not roll her eyes or flare her nostrils when someone mentioned her hair or her body type, etc.

But then I thought that this book isn't for "us", it's for everybody. That made me sad.

I have an executive coach that is an older Black woman, around Michelle's age, and she received feedback that I was too direct and it offended a white woman. The white woman told my coach that she was probably offended because she's not used to young Black women speaking up for themselves. My coach told me to temper my speech to make these white women more comfortable. I'm the only Black person in the group so it would be me speaking like a child, while everyone else says whatever tf they want. So I told her if I have to change who I am to accommodate every white woman then I'm not being myself and I'd rather not work at a place that doesn't accept me. That was the millenial in me with a no effs given. I expected Becoming to discuss these kinds of experiences and it frustrated me.

I had a similar experience that I think I posted about before where I was training a white girl and we went to lunch and ki-ki'd and she never said a word to me but then she went to my manager (a bw) and complained that I was too harsh with her. My manager called me in and rolled her eyes and told me she would just have someone else train the girl because she knew it was ridiculous.

I was young and that was my first experience with ww in a corporate environment. But what's interesting is that a study came out awhile back saying black women's assertiveness is valued in the corporate world while ww's and bm's is not. I couldn't find the original but I found a summary:

While white men are expected to be assertive and aggressive leaders, black men and white women are often penalized for that kind of behavior in the workplace. A new study published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, looks at another group: black women. They find that, rather than being viewed as a combination of black men and white women, black women also seem to be expected to act assertively.
(Snip)
The authors were inspired in part by a newspaper article describing how Ursula Burns became the CEO of XEROX and the first black woman to head a Fortune 500 company. The article described a lot of behavior that seemed assertive and dominant to Livingston. “It didn’t seem like she was being shy or docile or tiptoeing on eggshells,” he said.
(Snip)
While people were negative about assertive black men and white women, black women had as much latitude as white men to be assertive. This shows that black women really are a separate category when it comes to leadership. “Black women leaders occupy a unique space,” said Rosette. “These findings show that just because a role is prescribed to women in general doesn’t mean that it will be prescribed for black women.”

This study does not suggest, however, that racism is no longer a problem or that black women leaders don’t experience problems because they are perceived more like white men than white women. Rosette emphasized the fact that this new study only talks about women who have already reached top leadership roles. “This research doesn’t examine what it is like for black women to get to those roles in the first place,” she said.

Livingston suspects that one of the reasons that there aren’t as many black women as white men running Fortune 500 companies is because black women may actually be more likely to be penalized for a mistake. “It is possible that black women can be assertive, but any mistake on the job might be interpreted as evidence that she is not suited for the leadership role,” he said. That may make it extremely difficult for black women to climb the corporate ladder.

https://www.psychologicalscience.or...roved-for-assertiveness-in-the-workplace.html


Obviously this is just talking about bw in leadership but I hope someone expands on it and maybe even does a case study on Michelle and how she stands right at the intersection of race and gender in the workplace. For bw it's the combination of both that we have to navigate.
 

Everything Zen

Well-Known Member
Re: the bolded...
Barack Obama should not have gone to Morehouse and talked about not being lazy and blaming white people. An HBCU, graduating black men who have made something of themselves, and THAT'S what he talked about. Or visiting the CBC and telling them to stop whining and put their shoes on and do some work. An organization filled with people who were beaten and attacked by dogs and water hoses and whatnot.

Nah. He's always been a condescending person towards AAs, a group who paved the way for him to even become president. Sorry, I'm AA and I'm never giving him passes on that and it's why even when he does manage to read a room and say the right thing, I'm not applauding it as much as feeling like ok, so he DOES know how. He just chooses not to.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post.

But he didn’t do that at the Howard commencement. I felt like that speech was appropriate so I’m very shocked and need to watch this one. I’ve heard you speak up about this in the past. I need to pay more attention. Honestly though that’s how a lot of black baby boomers speak to younger generations. Doesn’t make it right. My dad is one of the few that acknowledges the selfishness of his generation as a whole.
 

LadyPBC

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I think that we forget that President Obama is half white. He was abandoned by his African father and Midwestern mother and raised by his White grandparents. It is who he is and he has been 'successfully' navigating different cultures for some time. I don't think it would be fair to ask him to choose a side. Maybe for that reason, I'm no expert and can't speak for the GFLOTUS of all time, she treads carefully when discussing race and how challenging it can be. She, unlike many others, has had lots of White folks who embraced and were nice to her. I don't know. I'm not mad at her. I'll always be a fan.
 

naijamerican

Well-Known Member
Oh I’m going to finish it. I just think the Millenial generation is going to have to carry the torch at this point. I think people are asking too much of Michelle and the baby boomers. They’ve done what they can from their perspective.

I agree with you and that's basically what I was saying, that Michelle, at the very least, is opening up avenues for important conversations that will likely be initiated and sustained by those who follow her. I honestly don't expect her to adopt the same approaches that Millenials and younger generations are using. I've even observed this with my friends who are Millenials and the disappointment they express in some of our older mentors. I think that we need to figure out how to strike the balance between demanding more from those who are older, while maintaining a sense of grace and empathy from the standpoint that there are some things they are not ready to address publicly, let alone wrestle with privately.

I was trying to find better photos of her and saw this connected to a blog post she wrote about the death of her husband. That's him.
Oh wow. I know who this writer is because I remember when her husband died. Her blog post about her husband's death was, quite frankly, very moving and thoughtful. It made me think about how Black women in interracial relationships negotiate their work when their focus is on issues of race, power, and privilege.

In case people want to read how she described their relationship, here's the lank: https://www.kcet.org/history-society/love-across-the-color-line-remembering-alan-kaplan. One quote that stood out to me is this:
Early on we accepted the fact that whether we were getting along splendidly or getting on each other's case, he would never stop being white and I would never stop being black. Love would never negate the truth of our respective experiences of being black and white that were painstakingly designed over hundreds of years to be oppressive and hierarchal, not equal.
 

ScorpioBeauty09

Well-Known Member
But he didn’t do that at the Howard commencement. I felt like that speech was appropriate so I’m very shocked and need to watch this one. I’ve heard you speak up about this in the past. I need to pay more attention. Honestly though that’s how a lot of black baby boomers speak to younger generations. Doesn’t make it right. My dad is one of the few that acknowledges the selfishness of his generation as a whole.
Same with my mother.
 

ScorpioBeauty09

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I think that we forget that President Obama is half white. He was abandoned by his African father and Midwestern mother and raised by his White grandparents. It is who he is and he has been 'successfully' navigating different cultures for some time. I don't think it would be fair to ask him to choose a side. Maybe for that reason, I'm no expert and can't speak for the GFLOTUS of all time, she treads carefully when discussing race and how challenging it can be. She, unlike many others, has had lots of White folks who embraced and were nice to her. I don't know. I'm not mad at her. I'll always be a fan.
The bolded. It's why I've never felt the kinship that many AAs felt toward him.
 

dancinstallion

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you don't see this happening in your community but it happens in mine.

it doesn't happen in mine either. The closest I have been to a group of black parents really looking to build our kids and advance them was at the mandarin School our kids attended. How freaking ironic. Since most of the kids will be or are going to different schools now, it is hard keeping most of the Black kids advanced as a group. It is like pulling teeth to try to get my black friends and their kids to take educational opportunities.
 

dancinstallion

Well-Known Member
Oh ok thank you!

Rant
Well the black community will just continue to stay stuck, so I’m not surprised at the backlash. “Other Folks” don’t care what was done in the past and what is being done to us now, and they never will. Do black folks get that? We need to assimilate, get on one accord, and move forward. Work the system, do all we can to gain from it, leave and create our own.
Black men don’t even join PTOs, volunteer at schools, start more reading programs, create more mentoring groups, create clean up community committees, pull money together to take black kids to cultural events, etc.. it’s all about the individual, or just sitting up and blaming the white man who don’t give a rat’s behind about us and who don’t want to work and live with us.

About reading programs. I told dd lets start a book club with advanced vocabulary studies in the area and she was down. I know the little white girl down the street that is being homeschooled will join but I had the bright idea to keep it for black kids. Well the first few parents I asked didnt seem interested, then I asked another parent who is a teacher and she said her daughter doesnt like to read. :confused: This 6th grade.

My hope for black kids rising as a group and surpassing whites Asians im education and opportunities is nearly non existent. Forget assimilating I want to pass them or create our own lane and path but that has been challenging to get other AAs to join the lane.

I already said dd is the only black kid in all of her advanced classes.

I rarely see black dads at the school meetings and functions unless they are African.
 
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ajoke

Well-Known Member
I've felt this way for a while, but I would never say it out loud amongst non-Black people :look:

After reading Becoming, I felt like I was missing something...I have been a "first" in a few programs in my life and I really wanted to get her perspective on how she remained unapologetically Black and maintained her integrity when dealing with conscious and unconscious bias from non-Black people. I didn't get that, at all. It was more like how she modified her behavior and held her head high. I wanted to know how she managed to not roll her eyes or flare her nostrils when someone mentioned her hair or her body type, etc.

But then I thought that this book isn't for "us", it's for everybody. That made me sad.

I have an executive coach that is an older Black woman, around Michelle's age, and she received feedback that I was too direct and it offended a white woman. The white woman told my coach that she was probably offended because she's not used to young Black women speaking up for themselves. My coach told me to temper my speech to make these white women more comfortable. I'm the only Black person in the group so it would be me speaking like a child, while everyone else says whatever tf they want. So I told her if I have to change who I am to accommodate every white woman then I'm not being myself and I'd rather not work at a place that doesn't accept me. That was the millenial in me with a no effs given. I expected Becoming to discuss these kinds of experiences and it frustrated me.

What in the world! I feel personally offended for you. Not just that the white woman actually dared to say that aloud, but also that your coach told you about it. Keep your head up girl!
 

Everything Zen

Well-Known Member
What in the world! I feel personally offended for you. Not just that the white woman actually dared to say that aloud, but also that your coach told you about it. Keep your head up girl!

That’s just how it is. My manager said that “I come across strongly” and “I am too quiet” all the same performance review at my last job.

Being deemed too quiet is sometimes worse than being too assertive. I’ve learned that at several jobs.

But I’ve kind of gotten to the point that I’m going to end up being some version of myself regardless.
 
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Miss_Luna

Well-Known Member
I had a similar experience that I think I posted about before where I was training a white girl and we went to lunch and ki-ki'd and she never said a word to me but then she went to my manager (a bw) and complained that I was too harsh with her. My manager called me in and rolled her eyes and told me she would just have someone else train the girl because she knew it was ridiculous.

I was young and that was my first experience with ww in a corporate environment. But what's interesting is that a study came out awhile back saying black women's assertiveness is valued in the corporate world while ww's and bm's is not. I couldn't find the original but I found a summary:



https://www.psychologicalscience.or...roved-for-assertiveness-in-the-workplace.html


Obviously this is just talking about bw in leadership but I hope someone expands on it and maybe even does a case study on Michelle and how she stands right at the intersection of race and gender in the workplace. For bw it's the combination of both that we have to navigate.


I think it's a unique study and I'll look into it, but I think Ursula Burns also presents herself in a somewhat unfeminine style, possibly on purpose but probably also preference, to make gender less of a distraction.

In my experience white women expect us to either look like Ursula or less feminine than them, in general, and when we highlight our attributes and are assertive/demand respect, it makes them feel challenged. This could just be my experience, but I have seen this with white women and gay white men.

Either way, I'm here for a reason and I work hard for it, so I don't let it stop me. I know there are women that have conquered this space, but I struggle to find a platform, other than this board, where we can see success stories or ways to navigate this space.
 

Southernbella.

Well-Known Member
it doesn't happen in mine either. The closest I have been to a group of black parents really looking to build our kids and advance them was at the mandarin School our kids attended. How freaking ironic. Since most of the kids will be or are going to different schools now, it is hard keeping most of the Black kids advanced as a group. It is like pulling teeth to try to get my black friends and their kids to take educational opportunities.

Yeah it's going to be hard if they aren't all at the same school. DD and several of her friends all applied and were accepted into a STEM magnet program here. They've been friends since kindy and the moms have stayed close. With ds, it's the dads who talk. Dh met a couple of families at the boxing gym ds went to who attended different schools and they exchanged info and keep in touch. I think the key is that folks have to be likeminded. You're gonna run into black folks who talk a good game but aren't truly interested in more than just talking. I meet them too and once it's clear, I keep it moving. But once you find likeminded folks, it's a lot easier.

You may have better luck online. I know you don't homeschool but there are a growing number of black parents who are homeschooling and/or supplementing trad education at home and there will be likeminded folks in those groups for sure.

http://www.nbhe.net

https://www.matermea.com/blog/10-black-homeschool-moms-you-should-follow

FB groups:

Black Homeschooling Families, African-American Homeschool Moms, Minority Homeschool Connection, and Black Stay at Home Moms.

Also, if there's a Mocha Moms chapter in your area you should check it out. I've seen good things happening with them.
 

UmSumayyah

Well-Known Member
Re: the bolded...
Barack Obama should not have gone to Morehouse and talked about not being lazy and blaming white people. An HBCU, graduating black men who have made something of themselves, and THAT'S what he talked about. Or visiting the CBC and telling them to stop whining and put their shoes on and do some work. An organization filled with people who were beaten and attacked by dogs and water hoses and whatnot.

Nah. He's always been a condescending person towards AAs, a group who paved the way for him to even become president. Sorry, I'm AA and I'm never giving him passes on that and it's why even when he does manage to read a room and say the right thing, I'm not applauding it as much as feeling like ok, so he DOES know how. He just chooses not to.e

I don't disagree with the rest of your post.
Exactly. That Morehouse thing was such an insult.
 

naturalgyrl5199

Well-Known Member
Oh ok thank you!

Rant
Well the black community will just continue to stay stuck, so I’m not surprised at the backlash. “Other Folks” don’t care what was done in the past and what is being done to us now, and they never will. Do black folks get that? We need to assimilate, get on one accord, and move forward. Work the system, do all we can to gain from it, leave and create our own.
Black men don’t even join PTOs, volunteer at schools, start more reading programs, create more mentoring groups, create clean up community committees, pull money together to take black kids to cultural events, etc.. it’s all about the individual, or just sitting up and blaming the white man who don’t give a rat’s behind about us and who don’t want to work and live with us.
I'm happy to say this is going on in my community. But I live in a very Political Town with an HBCU smack dab in the middle of it. But the town is a medium sized one.
I didn't read Becoming and don't feel a pull to buy it. But I love Michelle.

I will say only this on the blowback for the Black Men thing: The conversation for what Blacks Should Do is one I feel is for "family."
Like we not gonna discuss family business with DeWytes. But the conversation about twerking, images of black men and women in the media IS an important one. The conversation can't be nuanced? Its part and parcel of why we are perceived as such and we as a people have co-signed on some of this in exchange for money to get ahead and in many cases get the benefits (clothes, access, jewelry, acceptance) that DeWytes have. No one likes to hear it. I remember when Jesse Jackson was salty about Barack Calling out black men.
Edited: I forgot he said that to Morehouse Men. Wrong Audience....really.
 
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naturalgyrl5199

Well-Known Member
I'm happy to say this is going on in my community. But I live in a very Political Town with an HBCU smack dab in the middle of it. But the town is a medium sized one.
I didn't read Becoming and don't feel a pull to buy it. But I love Michelle.

I will say only this on the blowback for the Black Men thing: The conversation for what Blacks Should Do is one I feel is for "family."
Like we not gonna discuss family business with DeWytes. But the conversation about twerking, images of black men and women in the media IS an important one. The conversation can't be nuanced? Its part and parcel of why we are perceived as such and we as a people have co-signed on some of this in exchange for money to get ahead and in many cases get the benefits (clothes, access, jewelry, acceptance) that DeWytes have. No one likes to hear it. I remember when Jesse Jackson was salty about Barack Calling out black men.
I thought we WANTED black men....to call out BLACK MEN? Its the messenger no? Cause the message is sound. We get frustrated and mad because DeWytes say the same thing and use these stereotypes against us (when we know IRL they have the hottest tea, nastiest proclivities, and habits on earth). Point being...What Barack was saying at the Summit was no lies told? Or was he lying? Or we just don't want DeWytes seeing us clean up our own mess? Like what is it?
ETA: He said that to the wrong audience...Agreed.
 

HappilyLiberal

Well-Known Member
I think Michelle’s book speaks HER personal journey and what she has been through, what she’s had to do and still in a process of becoming.

The book was not mean to be a blueprint for other black women.

The Obamas did all they could, while being in a constant spotlight, under scrutiny of people just waiting for them to misstep.

Being the “first” placed an even bigger burden because many black folks had unrealistic expectations that Obama was coming to be President of black America and he would under almost 400 years of injustice in 8 years. When he became president, McConnell et al vowed to block everything he tried to pass. He still managed to get a lot done that would benefit black people (without outright stating so). He only had control for 2 out of the 8 years.

Michelle couldn’t have been a better example of a First Lady, yet she was unmercifully criticized at every turn. The programs she implemented as First Lady positively affected black kids. Better food in public schools for one, was huge.

They cracked the ceiling but it’s not broken. I think the writer’s article is unfair because (1) unrealistic expectations and (2) wrong interpretation of the purpose of the book.

The Obamas are 2 people out of 330+ million. They did what they could to further the conversation. More black people are getting involved in communities, schools, politics etc. It’s not enough but it’s promising. Barrack talking to black males about alternatives to the living and being successful, is not chastising or talking down. It’s just stating that that way hasn’t done too well for you, how about you do something different.

:worship2: :worship2: :worship2: :worship2: :worship2:
 

HappilyLiberal

Well-Known Member
That's what puts such a bad taste in folks mouths. It's the class-ism that tends to be in play where the black folks who made it like to get on a podium to tell the other black people to pull their pants up and stop acting like hoodlums. We don't get the consideration of diversity of experience, that mess isn't uplifting nor encouraging. But I guess we are so used to being preached at that we don't see that for what it is.

But they need to pull their pants up and stop acting like hoodlums. What we are sorely missing in the black community is the sense of community shame that would keep these elements in line!
 

HappilyLiberal

Well-Known Member
I’m not about black folks assimilating to white folks. Black Americans have their own culture which frankly is American culture for the most part. That’s the culture that is most copied around the world.

That being said, having proper decorum is certain spaces is not about assimilating IMO. Everything is not for everywhere. Some attitudes and behaviors are toxic and has done nothing to improve the lives of most of the folks who live that life. There is nothing wrong in trying to get people to do better. It’s not about being preached at and it’s not about doing it to appease white folks.

I couldn’t care less about the “white man” but I do want my business to survive in the environment in which we operate. Look at it as moving strategically and claiming spaces as opposed to toeing some arbitrary line.

You're preaching today my sister!

:worship2: :worship2: :worship2: :worship2: :worship2:
 

HappilyLiberal

Well-Known Member
I didn’t finish Becoming. As soon as she started going in on Rev. Jeremiah Wright I lost interest. I was hoping for a twinge of regret and realness in her tone, but nah.

Why should she have regret? That fool went out there and showed his entire black :censored:! The Obamas rightfully did the
to him and kept it moving!
 

HappilyLiberal

Well-Known Member
I've felt this way for a while, but I would never say it out loud amongst non-Black people :look:

After reading Becoming, I felt like I was missing something...I have been a "first" in a few programs in my life and I really wanted to get her perspective on how she remained unapologetically Black and maintained her integrity when dealing with conscious and unconscious bias from non-Black people. I didn't get that, at all. It was more like how she modified her behavior and held her head high. I wanted to know how she managed to not roll her eyes or flare her nostrils when someone mentioned her hair or her body type, etc.

But then I thought that this book isn't for "us", it's for everybody. That made me sad.

I have an executive coach that is an older Black woman, around Michelle's age, and she received feedback that I was too direct and it offended a white woman. The white woman told my coach that she was probably offended because she's not used to young Black women speaking up for themselves. My coach told me to temper my speech to make these white women more comfortable. I'm the only Black person in the group so it would be me speaking like a child, while everyone else says whatever tf they want. So I told her if I have to change who I am to accommodate every white woman then I'm not being myself and I'd rather not work at a place that doesn't accept me. That was the millenial in me with a no effs given. I expected Becoming to discuss these kinds of experiences and it frustrated me.

But Michelle is not a millennial... so she is not going to have a millennial's approach to dealing with workplace conflict... Let us know how that worked out for you in thirty years!
 
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