At what point in fetal development do you get a soul?

gone_fishing · Jun 10, 2008

This is NOT an abortion question although I guess that could be included but I'm not up in here to debate or talk about abortions. I feel I should type that since it might be easy to assume that's where my original question is coming from.

Since my miscarriage I've been wondering about this a lot lately. In fact, I cannot seem to get it off of my mind.

Does my miscarried baby go to heaven or did they not have as soul yet?

I was reading up on some random theories concerning this.

There are two Biblically plausible views on how the human soul is created. (1) Traducianism is the theory that a soul is generated by the physical parents along with the body. Support for Traducianism is as follows: (A) In Genesis 2:7, God breathed the breath of life into Adam, causing Adam to become a “living soul.” Scripture nowhere records God performing this action again. (B) Adam had a son in his own likeness (Genesis 5:3). Adam’s descendants seem to be “living souls” without God breathing into them. (C) Genesis 2:2-3 seems to indicate that God ceased His creative work. (D) Adam's sin affects all men – both physically and spiritually – this makes sense if the body and soul both come from the parents. The weakness of Traducianism is that it is unclear how an immaterial soul can be generated through an entirely physical process. Traducianism can only be true if the body and soul are inextricably connected.

(2) Creationism is the view that God creates a new soul when a human being is conceived. Creationism was held by many early church fathers and also has Scriptural support. First, Scripture differentiates the origin of the soul from the origin of the body (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Isaiah 42:5; Zechariah 12:1; Hebrews 12:9). Second, if God creates each individual soul at the moment it is needed, the separation of soul and body is held firm. The weakness of Creationism is that it has God continually creating new human souls, while Genesis 2:2-3 indicates that God ceased creating. Also, since the entire human existence, body, soul, and spirit, are infected by sin – if God creates a new soul for every human being, how is that soul then infected with sin?

A third view, but one that lacks Biblical support, is the concept that God created all human souls at the same time and “attaches” a soul to a human being at the moment of conception. This view holds that there is sort of a “warehouse of souls” in Heaven where God stores souls that await a human body to be attached to. Again, this view has no Biblical support and is usually held by those of a “new age” or reincarnation mindset.

Whether the Traducianist view is correct or the Creationist view is correct, both agree that the soul does not exist prior to conception. This seems to be the clear teaching of the Bible. The human soul does not exist prior to a human being conceived. Whether God creates a new human soul at the moment of conception, or whether God designed the human reproductive process to also reproduce a soul – God is ultimately responsible for the creation of each and every soul.

Does that mean that all the little miscarried babies that the mother sometimes doesn't even know about, the ectopic pregnancies, etc. go to heaven too?

Our "new bodies" that we'll have in heaven, what will they look like? and what will his/hers look like since he/she was only 2 inches long at the time of the miscarriage?

Do all babies to go heaven? I have been reading "conflicting christian views". Obviously, the "popular view" would be that children/babies who have not reach the age of accountability (which may be different for each individual) will go to heaven.

Though the Bible leaves open the possibility, the one problem with saying that God applies Christ's payment for sin to those who can't believe is that the Bible does not specifically say that He does this. Therefore, I don't want to be adamant or dogmatic. I believe, however, that I can be dogmatic about the fact that God ALWAYS does what is right.

Still the question lingers.

I know these are a lot of random questions and I don't really expect that you all have the answers but I wanted to at least discuss it.

LunadeMiel · Jun 10, 2008

I believe that babies get a soul once they are conceived.

(((Adequate))) Your child is back in the loving arms of her father.

Ms.Honey · Jun 10, 2008

This should be in the Christian forum, not here Adequate. You know how stuff like this turns out here :nono:

sharentu · Jun 10, 2008

i am not sure but i do believe that upon conception the soul is there.

gone_fishing · Jun 10, 2008

Ms.Honey said:
This should be in the Christian forum, not here Adequate. You know how stuff like this turns out here

Actually, I meant to post it on the christian forum. It can be moved if the mods will do so.

kblc06 · Jun 10, 2008

My beliefs are more in line with the traducianism theory. I believe God exists as a form of energy, neither created nor destroyed, but merely transformed from state or plane of existence to another. This energy or soul exists in every lifeform. Sexual intercourse carries energy as well it is transformed and combined into the state of separate soul. Thus I believe, that within all of us inhabits God (or an intrinsic part of us is God since our soul would have had to come from It), but we do not allow the part of us that is consists of God to manifest and makes us whole so we live a huge portion of our lives incomplete of our true potential to do incredible miraculous things by allowing Him to take over and act through us.

-Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant,gorgeous, handsome, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God.
-Marianne Williamson

imstush · Jun 10, 2008

fabiennd said:
I believe that babies get a soul once they are conceived.

(((Adequate))) Your child is back in the loving arms of her father.

^^I agree with the above. {{{{{HUGS}}}}} to you during this trying time.

asummertyme · Jun 10, 2008

conception!(((((((()))))))))

Allandra · Jun 10, 2008

adequate said:
Actually, I meant to post it on the christian forum. It can be moved if the mods will do so.

m o v e d

honeycomb719 · Jun 10, 2008

Interesting questions I've never thought of it before.....Sorry about your lose Adequete.

PaperClip · Jun 10, 2008

Agreeing with the prayers for peace and comfort for you and yours at this time. Our Lord is a comforting, healing Lord. The Holy Spirit wraps His loving presence around you.

Per the question: conception.

Jeremiah 1:5: "Before I shaped you in the womb, I knew all about you. Before you saw the light of day, I had holy plans for you: A prophet to the nations— that's what I had in mind for you." (The Message)

Jeremiah 29:11: "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end."

winterinatl · Jun 10, 2008

I think the fetus is the home for the soul and the soul is chosen and waiting...until a certain time to come into it's body. I don't believe the soul lies in my belly for 9 months, nor do I think the time it is there is the same for every pregnancy.

I think some wait until 7-9 months to enter; some maybe at 4 or even 3 (they would have to be soooo bored, I'd imagine :drunk:

).

I feel this way because of mothers' stories of connection with the fetus, but not the fetus so much as the felt the presence of the soul all around them.

Blossssom · Jun 10, 2008

Wow!

This is one of the DEEPEST threads I have ever read on this forum... or anywhere.

Yea, what does happen to the miscarried babies? Only two inches long? Known in heaven as they are known... within the womb?

Blossssom · Jun 10, 2008

winterinatl said:
I think the fetus is the home for the soul and the soul is chosen and waiting...until a certain time to come into it's body. I don't believe the soul lies in my belly for 9 months, nor do I think the time it is there is the same for every pregnancy.

I think some wait until 7-9 months to enter; some maybe at 4 or even 3 (they would have to be soooo bored, I'd imagine ).

I feel this way because of mothers' stories of connection with the fetus, but not the fetus so much as the felt the presence of the soul all around them.

But what about the stillborn babies? Stillborn at 7, 8 or 9 months... where do their souls go?

winterinatl · Jun 10, 2008

Blossssom said:
But what about the stillborn babies? Stillborn at 7, 8 or 9 months... where do their souls go?

I'm sure they went back to heaven.

Some people believe the souls choose us as parents, choose the families before they even come, and even choose the situations of their to-be lives on purpose. The more challenging the life, the more advanced the soul. It is to be a learning experience here on Earth. So, a soul may choose to interact with a family even for the few months it is in utero, stillbirth death and all.

EtA: Sorry Blosssom, I didn't answer the question based on A's OP. I don't subscribe to any of the definitions/theories she posted. I believe in "heaven" as not Heaven biblically but another dimension just as glorious as described in the bible - but more earth like than clouds and spirt like, if that makes sense. We as souls come from there and reside there when we are not alive on Earth. We live full lives there, and some choose to participate in life on earth.

BrooklynSouth · Jun 10, 2008

I feel the soul is created from the moment God decides the meeting of sperm to egg is a keeper.

la flaca · Jun 10, 2008

fabiennd said:
I believe that babies get a soul once they are conceived.

(((Adequate))) Your child is back in the loving arms of her father.

I agree, your baby must be playing with mine in heaven:littleang

Opalsunset · Jun 12, 2008

fabiennd said:
I believe that babies get a soul once they are conceived.

(((Adequate))) Your child is back in the loving arms of her father.

I agree completely. Your baby is with the Lord and she is happier than you can ever imagine.

Blossssom · Jun 12, 2008

Thanks, Winter... Father Camping of Family Radio teaches that only the elected are going to heaven, and some of those babies are elected and some are not, just as some of us are elected and some of us are not.

Those not elected are going to hell. No way around it. Miscarried babies and people who lived to be 200. If you're not elected, you're hellbound, according to Father Camping... which I don't believe.

stinastina · Jun 12, 2008

So sorry for your loss, Adequate. I believe souls enter the body after conception. Not sure why, but I just do.

winterinatl · Jun 13, 2008

Blossssom said:
Thanks, Winter... Father Camping of Family Radio teaches that only the elected are going to heaven, and some of those babies are elected and some are not, just as some of us are elected and some of us are not.

Those not elected are going to hell. No way around it. Miscarried babies and people who lived to be 200. If you're not elected, you're hellbound, according to Father Camping... which I don't believe.

Blossssom, what is elected?

Some folks also believe that babies can be neutral souls. That when they die, and Death weighs their souls, if enough bad has happened to them in their short time, they will be condemned to Purgatory, even though it's not their own fault. Of course "white" souls don't need to be weighed they float straight to heaven, and you guessed it, the black ones sink straight down. The "gray" ones need to be weighed for final determination.

I don't take stock in this idea; although i do believe in a place like purgatory, for people who turn away from God or who kill themselves.

At what point in fetal development do you get a soul?

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