SPIN-OFF: Black people with Type 1 Hair

Tru_Mind

New Member
:lol: Too bad my mama won't let me take a picture of her...believe me I've tried. You guys will say that she is a type 1 whether her hair is wet or dry...but she is not.

:lol:My mom's stylists jokes with her and tells her that she has "white people hair" and she could get hair lice easily. :lol: My mom does not like to hear that at all. It's a good thing the she and her stylist are long time friends...or else...
 
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qtgirl

New Member
I agree a lot of erroneous info. on hairtypes is perpetuated by ppl. on hairboards. Though there is no universal Asian hairtype, most Asians have straight hair w/o any curl or wave, research it. Asian hair is usually straight, dark and of a coarse texture.

Source: P&G Hair Care Research Center

The range of different types of hair is enormous, ranging from tight wiry curls to ruler-straight. The color and shape of hair vary too. What accounts for these differences?
The type of hair you have is inherited from your parents. We may look back further, and say that it is determined by the part of the world in which your ancestors originated. It all depends on the race, or mixture of races, from which they came. In the very earliest days of human evolution, three basic racial groups of people seem to have existed on this planet. These spread out across the world and became mixed together. They are especially well mixed in countries where there has been massive immigration, such as the U.S.A. over the last few hundred years.
Scientists have identified three basic types of hair in today's human population, and have related them to these three early races:
Asian, Caucasoid and African.
The three types of hair not only look quite different, but the differences in their responses to physical and chemical damage can be remarkable.
Asian
These are people from the Orient, for example from China and Japan. Their hair is very straight, and always black in color.

Caucasoid
The Caucasoid group is the most 'varied' of the three racial groups. Modern Caucasoids are very varied, even though they are descended from the same group of ancestors. They range from the fair-skinned people of north-west Europe to the widely varying peoples of the Indian subcontinent. Their hair may be either wavy or straight, and the diameter varies widely too. The color ranges from black to a pale blond that is almost white, including just about every possible shade in between.

African
African people originated in Africa. Their hair is black and tightly curled. It tends to be woolly and dry, and is extremely easily damaged by heat or chemicals.


Nyambura said:
Their hair looks completely straight to me. I guess only their hairstylists know for sure.:lol: The Types to which I was referring are the ones originated by Andre Walker, Oprah's hairstylist, based on his book. If you refer to his book, you will see that Type 1 is not the rarest hair Type and that Asians are not the only ones (btw, there is no "typical" Asian hair - that too is a stereotype; it's the largest continent in the world, with the genetic diversity to match). I think the major reason that people get confused about hair Types is not b/c of Walker's book but b/c of the misinformation that gets spread on hair boards.

I care about why ppl. care therefore I can post. Also, it seems as if a lot of ppl. have something riding on whether or not black ppl. can have type 1 hair; like they're trying to prove something to someone. I'm glad it's not that "deep" to you.
As for who cares if there are black people with Type 1 hair, that's the subject of Pooh's post. If you don't care about it, then don't bother to post in the thread. Speaking for myself, it doesn't "prove" anything that there are Black people with naturally straight hair. I don't think it's that deep.
 

Tru_Mind

New Member
FashionistaNY said:
It is very possible for a black person to have type 1 hair. My aunt, even though she is mulatto has type 1 hair. She has no type of curl pattern to her hair whatsoever. Her hair has the tendency to lay limp and look greasy if she doesn't wash it every day. Not only, if she attempts to curl her hair, almost immediately without holding sprays/gels the curls fall out and she's back to her bone straight texture.

Most of my grandfather's brothers and sisters have textures between 1 and 2. I have type 4a hair, so whose to say, possibly down the line I could have offspring who has 1 or 2 hair because it is in my genetic make-up.

Hair texture like eye color can skip generations, so I wouldn't be shocked to run across AA's with type 1 hair.

Fashionista you almost described my mom's hair...she has those same problems...but she has a wave pattern. Because her hair is very thin it's not a definite wave pattern any product(gel, mousse), or little heat can make it go away.
 
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LadyChe

Well-Known Member
I'm sure that their origins will be argued...

But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.

Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.

I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).
 

qtgirl

New Member
Great post. I agree. :up:

LadyChe said:
I'm sure that their origins will be argued...

But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.

Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.

I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).
 

katie

Well-Known Member
Nyambura said:
To answer your question, Pooh, yes, I have seen Black people with Type 1 hair. Some have been North African, most have been AA or Caribbean Blacks. Sallie Richardson, the actress, comes to mind, as does Rachel (can't remember her last name) who used to be a host on BET and is from the Caribbean. I've also seen non-celebs with Type 1 hair who have two "Black" (as America defines "Black") parents.

I'm from the Caribbean and have never seen one black person with type 1 hair. It all depends on how you define black though. It is all so subjective.
 

model_chick717

New Member
Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.
 

c_octavia

New Member
I doubt any one can look at their family/bloodline and not have any one from a different race. So I doubt you can fine some one with type 1 hair that is just african, unless you only trace their "roots" back a few generations.
 

TJD3

New Member
My neighbors daughter has type 1 hair, and her parents are both black.. They are light skinned, but black. Mom has a relaxer, dad has type 4 hair, and Brie has type one.
 

Tru_Mind

New Member
Dolapo said:
Im african and i have type 3 natural hair with some 4 at the back. There is no one from my heritage who is mixed and im pretty sure of that. I know I got my hair from my dad who got his from his mother. I should take a picture of their natural hair but they dont live here....So one doesnt have to be mixed to have a type of hair that is different from type four. I dont know where the type 3 hair came from.....In the northern part of Nigeria, the hausas and fulanis have type 2 and 3 hair and im very sure they're not mixed. Arabs never came to my country only white people and they didnt stay in the North. i think its people in the northern part of Africa that mostly have different hair types. i met a woman from tanzania who has type 2 hair but im not sure if she's mixed or not. Im thinking it depends on the weather or climate. Because its really dry and dusty in the North, nature may have let their hair be a little curly so it doesnt hold sand and dirt and so it doesnt dry out. who knows......

Good point about the climates Dolapo! I believe that to be true.

Have you ladies ever seen "The Real Eve" on Discovery Channel. It's very interesting and real. It is believed that our genes can be traced back to a single African women. Also, the climates changes facial features, hair, etc. This change takes...I believe that they said 25,000 years(not sure).

THE REAL EVE
 
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Tiffany

New Member
model_chick717 said:
Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.

EXACTLY!!!!!
 

qtgirl

New Member
AMEN!

Straight hair, curly hair, slanted eyes, dark skin, light skin, blue eyes, green eyes, brown eyes... "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so." -William Shakespeare.



model_chick717 said:
Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.
 

katie

Well-Known Member
model_chick717 said:
Just from reading all the posts--do we not see a "common" thing....most, if not all, who posted knowing someone who is "black" with type 1 hair or close to it--all have some kind of mixed heritage. Obviously type 1 hair is not a trait in black/negroid people....different races have different traits, just like Asians have a certain features i.e. eyes, etc..... There's nothing wrong with that....it's just reality.

Yup. Well said.
 

FlowerHair

Reclaiming my time
LadyChe said:
I'm sure that their origins will be argued...

But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.

Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.

I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).

Exactly, we all have those traits within us but it might not show on the outside before we breed with someone. Don't forget that the original Africans carry the traits of every race.
 

Nyambura

surfer girl
qtgirl said:
I agree a lot of erroneous info. on hairtypes is perpetuated by ppl. on hairboards. Though there is no universal Asian hairtype, most Asians have straight hair w/o any curl or wave, research it. Asian hair is usually straight, dark and of a coarse texture.

Source: P&G Hair Care Research Center

The range of different types of hair is enormous, ranging from tight wiry curls to ruler-straight. The color and shape of hair vary too. What accounts for these differences?
The type of hair you have is inherited from your parents. We may look back further, and say that it is determined by the part of the world in which your ancestors originated. It all depends on the race, or mixture of races, from which they came. In the very earliest days of human evolution, three basic racial groups of people seem to have existed on this planet. These spread out across the world and became mixed together. They are especially well mixed in countries where there has been massive immigration, such as the U.S.A. over the last few hundred years.
Scientists have identified three basic types of hair in today's human population, and have related them to these three early races:
Asian, Caucasoid and African.
The three types of hair not only look quite different, but the differences in their responses to physical and chemical damage can be remarkable.
Asian
These are people from the Orient, for example from China and Japan. Their hair is very straight, and always black in color.

Caucasoid
The Caucasoid group is the most 'varied' of the three racial groups. Modern Caucasoids are very varied, even though they are descended from the same group of ancestors. They range from the fair-skinned people of north-west Europe to the widely varying peoples of the Indian subcontinent. Their hair may be either wavy or straight, and the diameter varies widely too. The color ranges from black to a pale blond that is almost white, including just about every possible shade in between.

African
African people originated in Africa. Their hair is black and tightly curled. It tends to be woolly and dry, and is extremely easily damaged by heat or chemicals.




I care about why ppl. care therefore I can post. Also, it seems as if a lot of ppl. have something riding on whether or not black ppl. can have type 1 hair; like they're trying to prove something to someone. I'm glad it's not that "deep" to you.

Is your idea of research a pamphlet from Proctor & Gamble? Perhaps you should broaden your research resources. If you were to read articles published by well-respected scientific journals, for example, you would learn that geneticists have rejected "race" as a scientifically-supportable, or even definable, concept. It's been that way for a while. Race is a social construct. There are many, many threads containing disagreements about who is Black, whether a certain celebrity looks Black (or Black enough), which illustrates how fluid a definition it is. Your characterization of African people is also incorrect and stereotypical. You can consult CatSuga's posts containing photographs of Ethiopian children, or you can read Dolapo's post to see that. As an African myself, I can tell you that my hair doesn't fit your stereotype, either. But why let facts get in the way of a good story? lol.

I think your last paragraph, with respect to the participants in this particular thread, is pure projection. Again, there is no legitimate evidence to support your assertion.
 
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Nyambura

surfer girl
LadyChe said:
I'm sure that their origins will be argued...

But. Aborigines - can be found with type 1 hair, even blond, with extremely dark skin and very little mixing of past heritage.

Genetic expression indicates that, while unlikely in a large number of cases, there are people of dark skin tone with straight hair, just like there are pale people with curly/kinky hair. Of course, straight type 1 hair is a very recessive trait, just like violet eyes.

I don't want to be another voice of derision, but I want to say sincerely - all we are is an amagamation of genes expressed to different extents. Some genes are more easily expressed, but think of it this way - If any particular "race" of people were the only ones left on the planet, given the proper amount of time and the same planetary conditions, all "races" would eventually exist (perhaps in different numerical proportions).
FlowerHair said:
Exactly, we all have those traits within us but it might not show on the outside before we breed with someone. Don't forget that the original Africans carry the traits of every race.

Good points. :up:
 

Tru_Mind

New Member
Poohbear said:
See, this all boils down to everyone have mixed blood...

Why is it that a black person with straighter/less curlier hair is mixed?

How come a black person with type 4 hair is seen as a black person and never seen as mixed???

So how come a black person with type 1 or 2 hair can't be considered black like a black person with type 3 or 4 hair??? :confused:

Good point PB...but it's all about genetics. We can't control our genes. If not all most black/AA are mixed and again we can't control our genes.

I know a black/AA girl from high school who has dark blue eyes. Neither of her parents have blue eyes. She is the only one in her family with blue eyes. Obviously a least one of her ancestors had blue eyes. The girl is brown skin, black/AA features, with type 4 hair and dark blue eyes. I know what scientist say about blue eyes, so this is a very rare incident. It's all about genetics.
 
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qtgirl

New Member
Slow down.

I know all about race as a social construct, but you cannot deny the varying phenotypes* of diff. "races" of humans. Although there are variations in each "racial" phenotype there are overwhelming similarities within the types. Which is why when someone's physical characteristics are out of their "racial" phenotype it is seen as a rarity or oddity, hence even the question of whether or not there are black ppl. with type 1 hair. You're not going to argue phenotypes are you? Also race is more or less just archetypes of the dominant features in a particular phenotype.

Since you seem to be in possession of more scientific journals on hair and hairtype maybe you could copy and paste what they say about hair and race.

Also, I am well aware that P&G's research is limited in respect to African characteristics I have known Africans with type 2-4 hair. So, you must have misunderstood my post in that respect.

As Modelchick previously said, there are some traits that are just synonymous with different "races" and there is nothing wrong with that.


*phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment

As for me "projecting" anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. When ppl. are overly concerned with a particular subject and are darn near pathological on it as well, it would seem that said person has some personal stake in the outcome.




Nyambura said:
Is your idea of research a pamphlet from Protctor & Gamble? Perhaps you should broaden your research resources. If you were to read articles published by well-respected scientific journals, for example, you would learn that geneticists have rejected "race" as a scientifically-supportable, or even definable, concept. It's been that way for a while. Race is a social construct. There are many, many threads containing disagreements about who is Black, whether a certain celebrity looks Black (or Black enough), which illustrates how fluid a definition it is. Your characterization of African people is also incorrect and stereotypical. You can consult CatSuga's posts containing photographs of Ethiopian children, or you can read Dolapo's post to see that. As an African myself, I can tell you that my hair doesn't fit your stereotype, either. But why let facts get in the way of a good story? lol.

I think your last paragraph, with respect to the participants in this particular thread, is pure projection. Again, there is no legitimate evidence to support your assertion.
 
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model_chick717

New Member
PREACH! haha, I'm STILL wondering why the discussion is getting so "heated".....:scratchch
qtgirl said:
Slow down.

I know all about race as a social construct, but you cannot deny the varying phenotypes* of diff. "races" of humans. Although there are variations in each "racial" phenotype there are overwhelming similarities within the types. Which is why when someone's physical characteristics are out of their "racial" phenotype it is seen as a rarity or oddity, hence even the question of whether or not there are black ppl. with type 1 hair. You're not going to argue phenotypes are you? Also race is more or less just archetypes of the dominant features in a particular phenotype.

Since you seem to be in possession of more scientific journals on hair and hairtype maybe you could copy and paste what they say about hair and race.

Also, I am well aware that P&G's research is limited in respect to African characteristics I have known Africans with type 2-4 hair. So, you must have misunderstood my post in that respect.

As Modelchick previously said, there are some traits that are just synonymous with different "races" and there is nothing wrong with that.


*phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment

As for me "projecting" anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. When ppl. are overly concerned with a particular subject and are darn near pathological on it as well, it would seem that said person has some personal stake in the outcome.
 

Crysdon

Well-Known Member
lovelymissyoli said:
I thought type 1 was completely straight meaning no texture whatsoever (i.e. no wave or curl pattern)....am I wrong?? :confused: As beautiful as those Ethiopian children are, 2 of them still look as though they have type 2 or 3 hair. Now Caligirl's friend's hair sounds like type 1 but these pictures seem misleading.

As for the offspring from two black parents, I have yet to meet any that have type 1 hair...I've seen type 3 (maybe even 2) and their parents were black, however, one of their grandparents happened to be mixed race. So it seems as though if there is mixed blood somewhere in your family's ancestry/pedigree then you have the chance of having a type of hair other than 4, however, most of the A.A.'s I know have either type 3 or 4! Even in cases of bi-racial children, I have yet to meet someone with natural type 1 hair...not flat-ironed hair!! ;)

You are not wrong missyoli. I have yet to see/meet a non-mixed race Black person with type 1 hair. I believe people who say they have don't really know Andre's hair typing system. BTW - I don't know where, but I believe I saw someone on here post that they or their mother has type 1b. What is one 1b??? Type 1 hair is straight, period.

Type 1
Is straight hair, which has doesn’t have any type of wave of curl pattern


1. Straight hair

2. Wavy hair
A - Fine & Thin
B - Medium
C - Thick & Coarse

3. Curly hair
A - Loose loopy curls
B - More defined curls to very well defined curls (ringlets)
C - Tight coils with frizz

4. Kinky hair (Oprah's hair)
A - Tightly curly - S shape like Type 3
B - Wiry - Z pattern
 

Nyambura

surfer girl
qtgirl said:
Slow down.

I know all about race as a social construct, but you cannot deny the varying phenotypes* of diff. "races" of humans. Although there are variations in each "racial" phenotype there are overwhelming similarities within the types. Which is why when someone's physical characteristics are out of their "racial" phenotype it is seen as a rarity or oddity, hence even the question of whether or not there are black ppl. with type 1 hair. You're not going to argue phenotypes are you? Also race is more or less just archetypes of the dominant features in a particular phenotype.

Since you seem to be in possession of more scientific journals on hair and hairtype maybe you could copy and paste what they say about hair and race.

Also, I am well aware that P&G's research is limited in respect to African characteristics I have known Africans with type 2-4 hair. So, you must have misunderstood my post in that respect.

As Modelchick previously said, there are some traits that are just synonymous with different "races" and there is nothing wrong with that.


*phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment

As for me "projecting" anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. When ppl. are overly concerned with a particular subject and are darn near pathological on it as well, it would seem that said person has some personal stake in the outcome.

If you re-read your own post, your invitation for me to conduct research came right after your discussion of Asian hair. I'm not going to cut and paste articles from journals that are not online but you are welcome to make the effort yourself to go to a bricks-and-mortar library and look up the journals yourself. "Phenotypes" schmenotypes:lol: It's impossible to limit Africans to one phenotype just as it's impossible with Asians. Some of us have slim "pointy" noses, others wide and flat (that's on both continents). Just as "race" is not a scientifically-valid entity, and has been rejected for some time as such, so is the idea that the genetic similarities among "races" (for example, "Blacks") is greater than the genetic similarities between "races" (for example, between "Blacks" and "Whites.") But we're getting waaaay off topic here.

As for being pathological or overly concerned, again, there is no evidence in this thread to support your conjecture. Honestly, I don't think that PoohBear is pathological, or necessarily overly concerned, about Type 1 hair to post about it, lol. It's a hair care forum. What better place to discuss hair? :lol: Of all types? :lol: And if discussing it makes us pathological or overly concerned, what does that say about you for being a participant? :lol:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say nobody in this thread, including you, is pathological or overly concerned about Type 1 hair.

Good luck to you, qtgirl.
 

Nyambura

surfer girl
model_chick717 said:
PREACH! haha, I'm STILL wondering why the discussion is getting so "heated".....:scratchch

Model_chick, if you're referring to me, I'm not getting heated. This is actually amusing. But think what you will....:lol:
 

qtgirl

New Member
I agree a lot of ppl. do not know Andre's scale and make up their own, whether out of not knowing or to try and fit their hairtype into another box.

Andre's Hair Type Scale:

Type 1: Straight hair
Not much more to say.

Type 2: Wavy hair
Type 2 hair falls into the great divide between Type 1, straight hair, and Type 3, curly hair. A relatively unusual type, wavy hair tends to be coarse, with a definite "S" pattern to it. By that I mean the wave forms throughout the hair in the shape of the letter "S". Your hair is wavy, or Type 2, if it curves in the "S" shape while laying flat against the scalp, instead of standing away from the head the way curly hair does. Supermodel Yasmeen Ghauri, actress/model Isabella Rosellini and actress Jennifer Aniston of Friends (the one who sparked a craze for the ubiquitous "Friends haircut" of the mid-1990s) are all Type 2s. Type 2s are often confused with Type 3s because it is easy to get curly hair to lay flat and look wavy. But don't be fooled: you can't get Type 2 hair to look like Type 3 without a lot of work. Why? The hallmark of wavy hair is that it sticks close to the head: even if you cut it in layers, it won't bounce up. There are three Type 2 subtypes: A, fine and thin; B, medium-textured; and C, thick and coarse. Type 2A is very easy to handle, pliantly blowing out into a straighter style or taking on curlier looks with relative ease. Types 2B and 2C are a little more resistant to styling and have a tendency to frizz

Type 3: Curly hair
With curly hair, there is a definite loopy "S" pattern. Pluck out a hair, stretch it out. Notice the curvy lines. Looks like s stretched-out Slinky, doesn't it? Most people think curly hair is coarse, but actually it is usually baby soft and very fine in texture – there's just a lot of it. Because the cuticle layers don't like as flat, curly hair isn't as shiny as straight or wavy hair. The hair doesn't have a very smooth surface, so light doesn't reflect off of it as much. When curly hair is wet, is usually straightens out. As it dries, it absorbs the water and contracts to its curliest state. Those of you with Type 3 hair know all too well that humidity makes curly hair even curlier, or even frizzier.

If you're a Type 3, your hair has a lot of body and is easily styled in its natural state, or it can be easily straightened with a blow-dryer into a smoother style. Healthy Type 3 hair is shiny, with soft, smooth curls and strong elasticity. The curls are well-defined and springy: pull out a strand of hair and stretch it; it won't snap in two. Damaged Type 3 hair is usually frizzy, dull, hard and dry to the touch, with fuzzy, ill-defined curls.

There are two subtypes of curly hair. Type 3A, hair that is very loosely curled like Julia Robert's or Susan Sarandon's is usually very shiny with big curls. The shorter the hair, the straighter it gets. The longer the hair the more defined the curl. Type 3B, on the other hand, is hair with a medium amount of curl, ranging from bouncy ringlets – think of Shirley Temple and Nicole Kidman – to tight corkscrews – think of actress Cree Summer of television's Sweet Justice of jazz singer Cleo Laine. It's not unusual to find both subtypes coexisting on the same head. In fact, curly hair usually consists of a combination of textures, with the crown being the curliest part.

Even Type 3C is an invention from another hairboard (naturallycurly.com)Naturallycurly.com readers have suggested a third Type 3 subtype: 3c.
Type 3C, is hair with tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together. Some people refer to this as "big hair." Getting this type of hair to blowdry straight is more challenging than for 3A or 3B, but it usually can be done. This includes those with very tight curls but finer hair, as well as coarser hair. 3C has really really tight curls, like pencil or straw circumference. 3B is like sidewalk chalk or salt shaker circumference, and 4A is like coffee stirrer circumference.

Type 4: Kinky hair

If your hair falls into the Type 4 category, then it is kinky, or very tightly curled. Generally, Type 4 hair is very wiry, very tightly coiled and very, very fragile. Like Type 3 hair, Type 4 hair appears to be coarse, but it is actually quite fine, with lots and lots of this strands densely packed together. Healthy Type 4 hair won't shine, but it will have sheen. It will be soft to the touch and will pass the strand test with ease. It will feel more silky than it will look shiny. Oprah, Whoopi Goldberg and the actress Angela Bassett are all Type 4s.

Type 4 hairs looks tough and durable, but looks can be deceiving. If you have Type 4 hair, you already know that it is the most fragile hair around. Why? Type 4 hair has fewer cuticle layers than any other hair type, which means that it has less natural protection from the damage you inflict by combing, brushing, curling, blow-drying and straightening it. The more cuticle layers in a single strand of hair, the more protection it has from damage. Each time you damage your hair – fire up the curling iron, fry it with chemicals – you break down a cuticle layer, robbing your hair of much-needed moisture. I cannot emphasize this enough. It's like taking a wire and bending it again and again. Eventually, it's going to snap and break.

Many women with Type 4 hair rely on chemical relaxers to make hair easier to control. In its natural states, sometimes Type 4 hair doesn't grow very long because every time you comb it, it breaks. (Of course, if you have dreadlocks and never comb them or keep them braided, your hair can and does grow quite long.)

There are two subtypes of Type 4 hair: Type 4A, tightly coiled hair that, when stretched, has an "S" pattern, much like curly hair; and Type 4B, which has a "Z" pattern, less of a defined curl pattern (instead of curling or coiling, the hair bends in sharp angles like the letter "Z"). Type 4A tends to have more moisture than Type 4B, which will have a wiry texture. But what if your hair has been chemically straightened? How can you tell which subtype you belong to if your hair is relaxed? You'll need at least one inch of new growth to tell. Pull at the roots. If you can see a definite curl pattern, then it's an A, if not, then it's a B.

Crysdon said:
You are not wrong missyoli. I have yet to see/meet a non-mixed race Black person with type 1 hair. I believe people who say they have don't really know Andre's hair typing system. BTW - I don't know where, but I believe I saw someone on here post that they or their mother has type 1b. What is one 1b??? Type 1 hair is straight, period.

Type 1
Is straight hair, which has doesn’t have any type of wave of curl pattern


1. Straight hair

2. Wavy hair
A - Fine & Thin
B - Medium
C - Thick & Coarse

3. Curly hair
A - Loose loopy curls
B - More defined curls to very well defined curls (ringlets)
C - Tight coils with frizz

4. Kinky hair (Oprah's hair)
A - Tightly curly - S shape like Type 3
B - Wiry - Z pattern
 

mscounselor

New Member
This discussion caught my eye as I was about to wash out my evoo. The original question was does anyone know of a Black person with type 1 hair. From there we went all over the world. (love the little National Geographic type discussion :D ). I am from the Jamaica, my parents are mixed, and I have 4a hair. I wouldn't touch the islands, because we trace our heritage to so many places there's not enough time to explain. :whyme:
So I am just going to answer the question. NO. My family only has 2,3, and 4. Even my maternal grandmother who is from Scotland had type 2 hair. If it exists, cool. I'm not surprised considering the world we live in. :nuts:
 

baglady215

Well-Known Member
Dolapo said:
Im african and i have type 3 natural hair with some 4 at the back. There is no one from my heritage who is mixed and im pretty sure of that.

Just curious, but how can you be so sure?
 

qtgirl

New Member
Just because as I said before there are variations in one phenotype doesn't mean that a phenotype doesn't exist. Yes, there are blacks with wide noses and slim noses, but most have brown skin, no? Yes, there are East Asians with straight hair and non-straight hair, but most have a certain eye shape no?

Thanks for the invitation to go to the library; I may just do that and if I have any free time scan some articles to foster my points.

Unfortunately, you are correct in one aspect. I am overly concerned when ppl. of color are overly concerned about things *I* consider pathological, i.e. the "Bluest Eye" syndrome. But that is my own cross to bear. I'm just happy to inject some thought provoking discussion.

ETA: It's nice debating with you.


Nyambura said:
If you re-read your own post, your invitation for me to conduct research came right after your discussion of Asian hair. I'm not going to cut and paste articles from journals that are not online but you are welcome to make the effort yourself to go to a bricks-and-mortar library and look up the journals yourself. "Phenotypes" schmenotypes:lol: It's impossible to limit Africans to one phenotype just as it's impossible with Asians. Some of us have slim "pointy" noses, others wide and flat (that's on both continents). Just as "race" is not a scientifically-valid entity, and has been rejected for some time as such, so is the idea that the genetic similarities among "races" (for example, "Blacks") is greater than the genetic similarities between "races" (for example, between "Blacks" and "Whites.") But we're getting waaaay off topic here.

As for being pathological or overly concerned, again, there is no evidence in this thread to support your conjecture. Honestly, I don't think that PoohBear is pathological, or necessarily overly concerned, about Type 1 hair to post about it, lol. It's a hair care forum. What better place to discuss hair? :lol: Of all types? :lol: And if discussing it makes us pathological or overly concerned, what does that say about you for being a participant? :lol:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say nobody in this thread, including you, is pathological or overly concerned about Type 1 hair.

Good luck to you, qtgirl.
 
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Dolapo

New Member
baglady215 said:
Just curious, but how can you be so sure?

because if we had anyone from any other race in my family, i would know...and i asked my grandma and she said no that thats just the way our hair is. My roots are deeply embedded in my hometown so there's no doubt about that
 
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