Amber Guyger Trial Begins

Farida

Well-Known Member
Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.

I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.

One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?

Her charges include lesser charges. So she could face manslaughter or negligent homicide. From what I have seen so far premeditated murder is a stretch. Reckless (known as murder two) is also possible

As for sentencing it is usually done by the judge based on state guidelines. Usually juries determine whether or not the person gets the death penalty if it's on the table. But sentencing really varies by state.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.

I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.

One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?
They originally charged her with manslaughter. There were a few in the DA's office that wanted murder and they got a grand jury indictment for murder so they went with that. As mentioned the lesser charges are included.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
I think I read somewhere that she worked almost a double shift, but that most of it was desk duty.
Did anyone else catch that?
I know it can be tiring sitting all day, but I’m sure she could walk around at her leisure. Also sitting all day is a totally different kind of tired than driving a squad car and being “on guard” the entire time.
She worked from 8am to 930pm. Her normal routine was to go to bed at midnight..get up by 530a to get ready for work. That day there was OT available to assist with a swat operation. She had downtime after that was over to "sit on" (watch) the 3 suspects that they had arrested.
 
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Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
The more I read, the more I smh. Are we sure she did not know Botham prior? Cuz she definitely seems guilty of intentional homicide so why did she do it? Is she just crazy? Or was she trying to cover something up?

They did not know each other. The earlier reports of hearing her banging on the door were not true. There was a witness in the hallway that testified as well as his immediate neighbor and other people that were home at the time.
I think and I could be wrong as I'm not a lawyer, the intent came from her saying she heard a noise inside "her" apartment and instead of backing out she went in to eliminate the threat.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
What we learned from Amber's testimony

*Her dog wasn't home that week because the building was checking the apartments for moisture isdues. So maintenance would be in her home at some point she didn't want him to esca0e. Although unlikely that late the state produced a notice to residents that said they'd be coming in at some point, He also got her to say that at any time
maintenance could enter the home to take care of issues

* Amber always carried her gear in her left hand to keep her shoot hand free
* Anber always made sure her door was locked when she left
* Amber was on the phone with Martin when she got home and backed into a space
*Amber got to "her" door and noticed it was ajar. She put her key in and it pushed open although she said she pushed it open with her left side
* Prior to entering she heard shuffling
She pulls her weapon and enters...she said this all happened within seconds
* shes standing at the door and sees a figure moving side to side at back of the room
* she tells him " let me see your hands, let me see your hands"
* He starts moving towards her yelling "Hey, hey hey"
,* She shoots twice
* She was holding the door open the entire time with her left arm still holding her gear
* Mr.Jean was about at the end of the arm of his couch when she shot
* she shot because she was scared and thought he was going to kill her. She believed he had a weapon
* she didnt know it wasn't her apartment until after she shot and moved towards him
* she called 911. she attempted to do CPR with 1 hand but didnt know how to do it
* only other help she offered was a eternal rub
* during 911 call she texted Martin because she was alone and afraid and wanted help
* she went into hallway because she had no idea where she was
* she went back inside
* she heard officers in hall so went back outside so they could see her
* she deleted all texts between her and Martin because she was embarrassed about the affair
* she dramatically expressed she was sorry and didnt deserve to be with her family and friends
* despite being embarrassed about her affair with a married man she texted him days after the shooting about going out to get drunk
* when asked about her training as an office she said she can't remember everything that was taught in those classes


court starts at 9am today
 
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Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
So far this morning they had some hearings about expert testimony
They tried again (yesterday) to get Armstrong's opinion about Amber's reasonableness and his opinion that she felt threatened and he didnt think she committed a crime in. Also he wanted to give his opinion on how Mr. Jean was positioned when shot.
That was denied because she testified to her own state of mind and if she was reasonable or not is up to the jury to decide. She testified that Mr. Jean was standing.
He will be allowed to testify in general to tunnel vision and other physical changes a person may experience in a high stress situation
Today a use of force expert wanted to testify he believed she was reasonable and he believed that she believed she was I her apartment therefore her actions were reasonable. he also wanted to testify he believed Mr. Jean was ducking at the time he was shot.
Also about unintentional blindness in that ones focus would just be on the treat and not the environment namely the atm's or hands of the perceived threat.
He wanted to use his personal experience and training to say she was reasonable.
Judge is not allowing anyone to testify to her reasonableness or her state if mind
hes permitted to testify to unintentional blindness in general
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
Court is over for today. Will resume Monday at 930.
Defense only called Ranger Armstrong and since his testimony was limited by the judge he only said people may experience tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, rapid heartrate and short term memory loss that may return.
They didnt call their use of force expert since he was also very limited in what he could say.
Defense seems very frustrated with Judge Kemp.
 

Reinventing21

Spreading my wings
^^^^The thing is...I believe it is normal for people to experience those physical reactions while in a terrorized state BUT I thought that cops, soldiers, anyone whose JOB it is to carry a gun were TRAINED to control these reactions so as to not just start shooting all over the place.

Everything she did seems to defy police training. She acted like a regular civilian with a gun.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
Oh the state asked one question to Ranger Armstrong about if Mr. Jean's shorts had pockets which they did not.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
^^^^The thing is...I believe it is normal for people to experience those physical reactions while in a terrorized state BUT I thought that cops, soldiers, anyone whose JOB it is to carry a gun were TRAINED to control these reactions so as to not just start shooting all over the place.

Everything she did seems to defy police training. She acted like a regular civilian with a gun.
Right as an Rn dealing with life and death situations I get it. My own personality is not to freak out and handle the situation as best I can. Other nurses in the same situation freak out and panic. I tend to internally panic but remain calm at work.
After hearing her account my thing is why did you go in. Those apartment s were tiny and she had no clue how many people she could be encountering or where they were inside. How would she know someone wasnt right by the door as a lookout. To me the reasonable thing to do upon seeing a door ajar and hearing noise inside wouldnt be to go in.
In fact that recently happened to me. I made a post about it. Came home and my front door was completely open. I was fairly certain I didn't leave it unlocked or open. I sure as heck didnt go in the house.. Went to my neighbor and we called the police to clear the house first.
She pulled her weapon knowing the probability that someone was inside was high.
She didnt know who
She didn't know how many
Didnt know if they were armed
Didnt know where they were positioned
She could of entered and got her head blown off instantly

Given the information she had just prior to going in I feel she needs to suffer consequences for her actions
 

Farida

Well-Known Member
I can believe she got off the wrong floor and all, but I believe she was probably on snapchat with Rivera and was distracted with her phone which is why she was so lost.

I believe she probably walked in all the way, still on her phone which is why she was completely clueless about her surroundings. Everything she says is pretty much filtered because she was the only witness.

No way she would have missed the light and sound from the tv. And if you say “hands up” and someone says “hey hey” you don’t just start shooting. That’s her story.

She probably looked up from her phone and saw Botham and started shooting because she was so distracted. Very reckless behavior IMO.

But we will never hear the full story because he died. Smh
 

rabs77

Well-Known Member
Unless she has the same exact tv placed in the same location she should have known way before pulling that trigger that she was in the wrong place. In a dark room your eyes would instinctively go towards the source of light, which is the tv. Let’s not forget that if I find my door ajar, I would pause for a while at the door, and that should give me enough time to notice a BRIGHT RED MAT that isn’t mine. I’m sure many people here have worked 13 + hr shifts.. I have on occasion, and I know how tiring it is... but not to the point of being a totally oblivious of my surroundings-especially if I’m on alert because door is ajar/unusual noise from room etc..This is some BS
 

Kanky

Well-Known Member
^^^^The thing is...I believe it is normal for people to experience those physical reactions while in a terrorized state BUT I thought that cops, soldiers, anyone whose JOB it is to carry a gun were TRAINED to control these reactions so as to not just start shooting all over the place.

Everything she did seems to defy police training. She acted like a regular civilian with a gun.
A poorly trained cop is worse than a civilian. Most people don’t want to shoot someone, burglars and included and will retreat if there’s an opportunity to do so. If I came home to someone having broken in, armed or not I am backing off and calling for help and only using the gun if the person actually chases me. People who break in when you aren’t home aren’t there for you, and it is crazy to kill someone over some stuff that is insured. She went in because she is an overconfident, poorly trained cop who doesn’t value human life.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
Court has started. They went over jury instruction objections. All of states arguments were overruled.
They re on a break and then will begin closing arguments. Each side estimated an hour for closings.
 

Jmartjrmd

Well-Known Member
She was trained but probably never really learned it. Sounds like she doesn't/ didn't take her job very seriously.
Right during her testimony she herself said she didnt remember what was taught in several of her police courses. She probably blew off first aid day like she'd never have to use it or figured EMS would handle that.
But those other officers were able to do it especially that last lady officer who was doing compressions. She paid attention!
I hope they convict on something. I"m nervous.
The victim has no rights it seems.
 

Reinventing21

Spreading my wings
A poorly trained cop is worse than a civilian. Most people don’t want to shoot someone, burglars and included and will retreat if there’s an opportunity to do so. If I came home to someone having broken in, armed or not I am backing off and calling for help and only using the gun if the person actually chases me. People who break in when you aren’t home aren’t there for you, and it is crazy to kill someone over some stuff that is insured. She went in because she is an overconfident, poorly trained cop who doesn’t value human life.[/QUOTE]

Nailed it! I hope people on the jury are seeing this as well.
 

Farida

Well-Known Member
Anyone have any idea why there’s a murder charge instead of manslaughter?
I’m guessing Texas laws are very different, but this seems like a clear cut manslaughter case to me.

I think I read somewhere that the jury can convict on a lesser charge if they want to.

One more question to anyone that may know. Is sentencing automatic based on conviction, done by jury recommendations or in the hands of the judge based on the state’s guidelines?
I heard the jury instructions today. Sounds like their only options are murder or manslaughter. Which makes sense because she has clearly stated intent. So I that’s why negligence is off the table.
 

Farida

Well-Known Member
Unless she has the same exact tv placed in the same location she should have known way before pulling that trigger that she was in the wrong place. In a dark room your eyes would instinctively go towards the source of light, which is the tv. Let’s not forget that if I find my door ajar, I would pause for a while at the door, and that should give me enough time to notice a BRIGHT RED MAT that isn’t mine. I’m sure many people here have worked 13 + hr shifts.. I have on occasion, and I know how tiring it is... but not to the point of being a totally oblivious of my surroundings-especially if I’m on alert because door is ajar/unusual noise from room etc..This is some BS
That’s why if she truly didn’t know where she was I think she was busy on her phone, not tired. Plus she said she was planning to go workout. So tired you don’t even know you’re lost...but you’re going to workout?
 

metro_qt

Well-Known Member
My own personality is not to freak out... Other nurses in the same situation freak out and panic. I tend to internally panic but remain calm at work.
After hearing her account my thing is why did you go in. Those apartment s were tiny and she had no clue how many people she could be encountering or where they were inside. How would she know someone wasnt right by the door as a lookout. To me the reasonable thing to do upon seeing a door ajar and hearing noise inside wouldnt be to go in.
s
You seem to be asking questions based on your personality, and your world view.

Why did she go in? Because she has a flight or fight response (her hyperarousal response) kicked in and said FIGHT!!!! (Not run away) like it would for many of us.

She also seems to be reactionary and offensive, not defensive, which means she's quick to reach for her gun, and ask questions later....which in this case didn't work out too well for her.

Also, she seemed to have done the 'typical white people thing' that they do in horror movies, where other cultures would move away from the threat (back away from the door, call 911 for help)...but white people always always want to go and 'investigate' ... all scoobie-doo like...
 
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