Are We All Children of God?

[divya]

Such wonderful, humbling posts in this thread.

Remember, when Jesus calls us to the table, please know that there are going to be other Judas' there and Jesus called him the one He loved. He didn't close the door to anyone as He is friend to all, like a brother. It's up to the individual to answer the spirit call but not up to us to judge another's walk. But for grace...but for grace and we don't realize how close to hell each and every one of us are. In His temple here on earth, all are invited and we sit side-by-side. It's only a matter of a moment to accept. Yet, He opens to the door to all His creation and He loves them no differently. Believers should be painfully aware of their continuous wretchedness because He has the most mercy for the worst sinners. The worse off you are spiritually, the more mercy there is available. That should eternally humble all of us. We're all brethern under His gift to the world...Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Jew, Pagan, Wiccan, Baptist, Presbyterian, even satanist.

This is such a beautiful post...but for grace! I understand your words regarding all of us being brethren to mean that all of humanity - every religion, creed, ethnicity - is in need of the Savior, and the Messiah died to save us all.

"To God be the glory, great things He has done;
So loved He the world that He gave us His Son,
Who yielded His life an atonement for sin,
And opened the life gate that all may go in."

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

while I'm commanded to love everyone (and I do for the most part), I'm not related to everyone...


unless I'm misinterpreting these scriptures we are not all brethren:

Matthew 12:46-50 (King James Version)

46While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.[/B]

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Here’s why I don’t believe that we are all children of God:

Matthew 13:38 (KJV)
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

though this is a parable it's clear that there are children of God and children of the wicked one who is the Devil

Acts 13:9 (KJV)

9Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, 10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? 11And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

John 8:42
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

John 8:47 (KJV)
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

our brothers, sisters, mother, father, uncle, aunties and cousins are those who do the will of the Father ...a harsh pill to swallow yes, but spiritually those who do the will of God are our relatives...

 

[CoilyFields]

We have been adopted into God's family when we accept Jesus as our Lord and savior. We are made heirs and co-heirs with Christ. This is a specific family with a specific inheritance (salvation/the kingdom). Everyone is not my spiritual brother and sister because to be so one has to have been born again of incorruptable seed.

Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Gal 4:7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

 

[Crown]

He/She is a real Christian! Based on what?

Mat. 7. 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Only God knows the heart.
Only God knows His children.

Mat. 20. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

The lost son was lost like all of us, but he was a child and His FATHER cared about him.


Mat. 13. 24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”


So, live by the 2 great commandments : love God and love your neighborhood, knowing that the Father is in control.

But, in congregation, we have to follow the rules of the Scriptures.

 

[NaturallySweet73]

Are we all Children of God?

Absolutely not! Further, Buddist, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Jew, Pagan, Wiccan, Baptist, Presbyterian, satanist can NOT be considered brothers or sisters unless they come through Jesus. No man can come unto the father exept it by Jesus (John 14:6 Jesus's words).

Crown: He/She is a real Christian! Based on what?

Mat. 7. 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Only God knows the heart.
Only God knows His children.

Mat. 20. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

The lost son was lost like all of us, but he was a child and His FATHER cared about him.


Mat. 13. 24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”


So, live by the 2 great commandments : love God and love your neighborhood, knowing that the Father is in control.

But, in congregation, we have to follow the rules of the Scriptures.

He/She is a real Christian! Based on what?

The biggest way to know is by their love

John 13:35 (KJV)

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Another is by they're fruits.

If we are confused the fruits will tell the story and as a believer in Christ and a follower, he has given us the ability to know through his word. No we cannot see the heart, but we can see actions and those are what we are commanded to judge (Matthew 7:13-20) That is the only way that we know who is who, and that is for our protection. Yes, a true believer can mess up but there is a difference between willful sin or falling into sin. Someone who does not belong to God will continue in sin and not seek to get out of it. The greater body of believer or other brothers and sisters will then try to help them out Galatians 6:1. But that same person will rely on the Lord to abandon there problem and will not just live that way, they will eventually be free.

More scripture that will help us discern this:

1 John 3:7-10

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

(1Co 6:9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (1Co 6:10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galations 5:19-21 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[auparavant]

Are we all Children of God?

Absolutely not! Further, Buddist, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Jew, Pagan, Wiccan, Baptist, Presbyterian, satanist can NOT be considered brothers or sisters unless they come through Jesus. No man can come unto the father exept it by Jesus (John 14:6 Jesus's words).

NaturallySweet73

Could you clarify this? You mean everybody in the world in general or just those religions/denominations in particular?

 

[NaturallySweet73]

@NaturallySweet73

Could you clarify this? You mean everybody in the world in general or just those religions/denominations in particular?

Im saying that no one in the world can belongs to him unless they come through Jesus Christ.

I mentioned all of those religions because it was mentioned by Guitarhero that all off of them are her brothers. They are not my brothers or of the family of Christ if they do not come through him.

In that group sited by Guitarhero are religions that are clearly antichrist and I didn't think that I needed to say it, because it pretty clear that a satanist(one who worships satan), for example, is not going to worship Jesus Christ. Im sorry if I didn't go deeper into my statement, but I didn't realize I needed to. My mistake.

 

[auparavant]

Im saying that no one in the world can belongs to him unless they come through Jesus Christ.

I mentioned all of those religions because it was mentioned by Guitarhero that all off of them are her brothers. They are not my brothers or of the family of Christ if they do not come through him.

In that group sited by Guitarhero are religions that are clearly antichrist and I didn't think that I needed to say it, because it pretty clear that a satanist(one who worships satan), for example, is not going to worship Jesus Christ. Im sorry if I didn't go deeper into my statement, but I didn't realize I needed to. My mistake.

Thanks for clarifying....BTW, I'm "Guitarhero" We don't have to agree on who we consider brothers in humanity and I totally respect your opinion. I had a feeling you meant it the way you just explained it but wasn't sure.

 

[Crown]

Let The Great I AM determine the paternity test.

And live by the two greats commandments:

Mc 12. 28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” 29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

 

[NaturallySweet73]

..............................................................................

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

To be clear, I am not questioning anyone's salvation, just providing information based on comments made that we are all God's children, thought I clarified on page one of this thread ...


Oh and I love all people, which includes people of different religions didn't think I needed to say that initially ...

 

[Crown]

I did not post to answer to you, @Iwanthealthyhair67, but about the topic.
If it's not for you(whoever), it's for someone else.

BTW, there is no sufficiency in love.
It is always possible for a human being living in flesh(self) and not already in a glorified body to improve LOVE: Agapao(Law of God) and phileo(neighbor).

 

[auparavant]

..., there is no sufficiency in love.
It is always possible for a human being living in flesh(self) and not already in a glorified body to improve LOVE

I like that!!!

 

[Laela]

What did Jesus die for? One oft-misquoted scripture is John 3:16... not read in its full context.

Yes, God loves us all..saved and unsaved, because we are his creation. Does God love the Atheist? Of course He does!

But don't stop at verse 16 - look at verses 17-18:

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The scriptures are very clear on who are the Children of God

Ephesians 2:
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[beingofserenity]

Wow, confusing.

 

[momi]

our brothers, sisters, mother, father, uncle, aunties and cousins are those who do the will of the Father ...a harsh pill to swallow yes, but spiritually those who do the will of God are our relatives...

I am in agreement because scripture agrees. We are all His creation yes - but not all His children. Those who do His will are His children : So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God. 1 John 3:10

 

[mensa]

I am in agreement because scripture agrees. We are all His creation yes - but not all His children. Those who do His will are His children : So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God. 1 John 3:10

Momi, this is the truth!

 

[kanozas]

LONG post... I'm providing background information with the question of "What do you think of this...atheists can also go to heaven?" I feel I should include this in our catholic thread for anyone to discuss it there because it is sided with the catholic faith. However, I don't want anything to be misconstrued as divisive. Basically, what are your thoughts?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

"definitions/discourse on 'atheism'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church: 2124 The name "atheism" covers many very different phenomena. One common form is the practical materialism which restricts its needs and aspirations to space and time. Atheistic humanism falsely considers man to be "an end to himself, and the sole maker, with supreme control, of his own history."59 Another form of contemporary atheism looks for the liberation of man through economic and social liberation. "It holds that religion, of its very nature, thwarts such emancipation by raising man's hopes in a future life, thus both deceiving him and discouraging him from working for a better form of life on earth."60
__________________________________________________________________________________
LINK

Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.The choice to accept its reach is our own. The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. The Church wants all men and women to be saved.

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.

However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ.

Francis based his homily on the message of Christ to his disciples taken from the Gospel of Mark. Francis delivered his message by sharing a story of a Catholic who asked a priest if atheists were saved by Christ.

"They complain," Francis said, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." He explained that Jesus corrected them, "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good."

The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."

"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio.

"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point."

Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest, told the Huffington Post, "Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a 'ransom for all.' But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

Pope Francis is trying to deepen our understanding of the fullness of Christ's sacrifice and its reach, which extends to all men and women. We often fall into familiar ways of thinking that are closed. We divide ourselves into groups, forgetting that we are all children of God, identical, regardless of any divisions we establish for ourselves.We are also all called to the One who created us and, through His Son,is recreating us anew. He calls us to accept His salavation.

The Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World (Gaudium et Spes) contains an important explanation of the phenomena referred to as 'Atheism' (See, GS #17-22). It is a very large term and we have to first examine what is meant when it is embraced by an individual to best understand the effect of the claim.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains that "Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion but the imputability of the offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances" (CCC#2125).

The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. On Good Friday we all pray:

Let us pray also for those who do not believe in Christ,that, enlightened by the Holy Spirit,they, too, may enter on the way of salvation. Almighty ever-living God,grant to those who do not confess Christ that, by walking before you with a sincere heart, they may find the truth and that we ourselves, being constant in mutual love and striving to understand more fully the mystery of your life, may be made more perfect witnesses to your love in the world. Through Christ our Lord.

We are judged by a just God who will welcome us based on what we have done with what we knew. Those who do not know God will be judged on the good they have done and the values lived by, to paraphrase a quote oft attributed to the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius.

However, the most loving thing we can do for all men and women is recognize that they too hunger for the God who created them and then help them to find Him as He is fully and completely revealed in his Son Jesus Christ and the Church. That includes recognizing the good that they do and joining with them in the work.

These latest comments are consistent with Pope Francis' efforts to reach out to people of other faiths and of no faith at all. By emphasizing our common bonds, our Holy Father breaks down artificial barriers so that we may see, and love, one another more clearly.

 

[Divine.]

@kanozas I'm not sure I agree with this article. Although we no longer are bound to the law, it was created to show us how sinful we are. If a person doesn't believe in a God or his word, how can he know what constitutes sin? How can he display the fruits of the spirit if he is operating under the flesh? Who is defining what doing good is? Jesus was the only good person that walked this earth. Doing good is almost the equivalent of following every law. But the bible says that no one who depends on the law is made right with God.

I understand what the pope is trying to say, but what I don't understand is how it aligns with scripture.

 

[kanozas]

@momi I'm not sure I agree with this article. Although we no longer are bound to the law, it was created to show us how sinful we are.

who is defining what doing good is? Jesus was the only good person that walked this earth. Doing good is almost the equivalent of following every law. But the bible says that no one who depends on the law is made right with God.

I understand what the pope is trying to say, but what I don't understand is how it aligns with scripture.

L

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

Jesus told us what doing good is: feeding the poor, helping the orphans and widows, giving water to the thirsty, . All people know what good is because that law is written on every man's heart. We all have a conscience. Just like we can perceive the sky and the sun in it, we can perceive what goodness is and we know when we are bad. In addition, these are the twelve fruits of the Holy Spirit:


The Twelve Fruits of the Holy Spirit citation link
1. Charity
2. Joy
3. Peace
4. Patience
5. Kindness
6. Goodness
7. Long Suffering
8. Mildness
9. Faith
10.Modesty
11.Continence
12.Chastity

I don't want to get into too much of a personal experience but I was given two choices by the very L-rd Himself while sitting in the Blessed Sacrament (chapel or sanctuary when/where the monstrance containing the Host is diaplayed for adoration, being the very body and blood of Jesus in the Host itself) and quietly reciting from Psalms from my siddur. He gave me two choices and said, "...whichever you choose, BE GOOD." That has stayed with me all this time. I've also come to realize that, according to our Catechism on the faith, that it is very true that G-d is the ultimate decider on who enters heaven and that, through no fault of his own, all men can enter heaven if they didn't know of Jesus and lived according to the truth they were given. I believe it is #1817 (sorry, being lazy right now). Just his past week, I went through some extremely trying times and in the end, Jesus is showing me His Mercy for all. I've come to a deeper understanding of His grace and mercy. We do know one thing, we enter through the door of Jesus but we do not know exactly how that happens for those who never knew Him to enter heaven according to His Will. We just don't know.

In addition to this, I believe the narrow gate (at least, for me) is through a conscience fixated on Jesus as opposed to Orthodox Judaism because He is the "easier" way with lots of graces for good living. This is a very short answer without a lot of elaboration on what I'm exactly talking about, I know, sorry for that. But I just found this expression of Pope Francis enlightening and right on time with the situation I'm having and for me to set aside my thoughts and feelings to accept a higher teaching on His grace and mercy (very personal...not saying others don't have such). I hope that makes more sense. I do not mean this as a catholic domination or anything.

 

[Laela]

@Divine. I hope this nugget helps:

As believers, we all want the fruit of the Spirit, but how can we know if we truly have it? Even unbelievers can display these qualities when conditions are positive. This nine-fold fruit of the Spirit is not what we do, but who we are, and it is primarily on display in Christians when circumstances are unfavorable. Two characteristics help us recognize these traits in our lives.

Fruitful believers are not controlled by their environment. Everyone experiences trials and pain, but those who are filled with the Spirit do not lose His fruit because of their situations. They keep their joy even when difficulties overwhelm. If someone speaks harshly, they respond with kindness. Because the Holy Spirit is in control, He is free to produce His fruit no matter what the circumstances are. Even though such believers may feel pain, anger, or a desire for revenge, they choose to trust the Lord to protect them and direct the outcome.

Fruitful Christians recover quickly after a fall. These believers are not perfect, but they are sensitive to the Spirit's conviction and are quick to return to the Lord in repentance. In fact, they are actually grateful for the correction and praise God, not only for revealing their weakness but also for drawing them back to obedience.

No one produces these amazing qualities in himself. Trying harder to be godly will never work. Character transformation occurs when we submit to God, giving Him complete control of our lives. Only then will the Spirit be free to produce fruit that remains even in the deepest, darkest storms.

Taken from "Looking for Fruit" by In Touch Ministries (used by permission).

 

[Divine.]

@kanozas Sorry for mentioning the wrong person! This is is good information. I guess my perspective was good = behavior, not good = characteristics. I'm still a little iffy on the subject though.

You can do all the "good" things and still be sinful. For example, you can serve others, be kind, etc but engage in fornication. I don't know how God will judge us and I would never claim to. But I do think there is a difference between disbelief in the existence of God and not having any knowledge of God.

If doing good is all it takes to get into heaven (not having faith, serving God, etc.), is there really a purpose in any of us practicing Christianity? You don't have to answer this specifically. This is just me thinking out loud.

 

[kanozas]

@kanozas Sorry for mentioning the wrong person! This is is good information. I guess my perspective was good = behavior, not good = characteristics. I'm still a little iffy on the subject though.

You can do all the "good" things and still be sinful. For example, you can serve others, be kind, etc but engage in fornication. I don't know how God will judge us and I would never claim to. But I do think there is a difference between disbelief in the existence of God and not having any knowledge of God.

If doing good is all it takes to get into heaven (not having faith, serving God, etc.), is there really a purpose in any of us practicing Christianity? You don't have to answer this specifically. This is just me thinking out load.

That's ok. I didn't want Momi thinking, "Hey, wait a minute!!!" LOL. You have a good point but that is not what is being said, though. If anything, it's humbling to know/think that we're all His children, equal. His sacrifice made us all His kids. Remember, there are diff. levels of meaning in scripture. It's not all literal. As I see it, those who are adopted by faith have a different relationship to Him and access to many graces that help us achieve sanctification. It's not impossible to go to heaven for anyone. The way was made. Even the greatest christians are still sinners, even if not the big sins.

One reason I threw in the definition on what atheism is was to expound upon it. It's not always someone who actively rejects G-d but sometimes, it's someone whose spiritual sense is very flawed and they cannot sense His existence. Such a person is not directly denying Him. They have no concept and no spiritual sense of Him. It's a lot to think about. I was taken a bit aback myself in reading this article. And if true, then that makes His gift of salvation all the more incredible and for me, breaks down these walls of religious separation we like to construct, making our souls rest in a more precarious situation and totally depended upon His mercy, grace, love and that we develop a trust deeper than any other. At the end, we HOPE, keeping us humbled and on our toes. We should have faith, trust and confidence yet... He truly wants no one to perish. We can absolutely, though, reject Him, christian and non.