Can someone who doesn't believe that Jesus is God be a Christian?

[EbonyEyes]

Okay so let me tell you....

This guy who did the photography at my school's fashion show came to get his check. And while we were waiting, we got to talking. And he says he loves reading the bible and holding bible studies.

Say those two things and you got me interested!

So we talked for 2 hours about God and the Bible. He said a couple of kinda odd things but I didn't think much of it at the time.

Then he asked if we could have a bible study together the following week. I said "Sure!"

So we're having the Bible study. I brought my bible (KJV) and he had his. And we're reading some topics out of a study guide and going through the scriptures.

So I'm flipping through and think to myself "What a nice study guide! Who published this?"

So I look at the front and it says "Watchtower Bible Tract Society."

My facial expression had to have been picture perfect. I looked at him and said "This study guide was produced by Jehovah's Witnesses?" He said "Yes, why?" I then say "Uhh...Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" He says "Yes I am."

My mind is going crazy because I can't believe that I'm having bible study with a Jehovah's Witness! I've heard not-so-great things about that sect. But I calmed down and decided to ask him questions and consider his answers with an open mind.

I ask him about their belief that Christ did not die on a cross but on a stake. So he's talking about that. And then he says that having crosses around your neck and in churches is idol worship!! I had to let him know that I don't pray to the cross and I wear a cross around my neck to show people that I'm a Christ-loving gal.

Then I ask him to clarify their belief about Jesus. He says that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was a great man, a sinless man. He was the son of God but he was NOT God! He then says that the Trinity has no biblical basis and the Holy Spirit is just an active force of Jehovah, not a person.

I'm totally wierded out at this point. Then he goes on about how the path to righteousness is narrow and few people *find* it. I believe he was alluding to the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses have the path right and the other Christians have it completely wrong. He said outright that we should not be worshipping Jesus because he was not God or celebrating Christmas because of its pagan basis.

He used Jesus praying to God and him saying that his father's will be done and him saying there is none good but the father as support for the claim that Jesus was not God.

I pray about this and ask God to show me in the scriptures where it shows that Jesus was God. I go to John 1 and it describes how the Word was with God and WAS God and the Word was made flesh. So then I'm thinking "It's right there in the Bible. Why don't the Witnesses believe that Jesus was God." I then read the New World Translation Bible (The photographer guy gave me a copy to read) and it reads differently. It says that the Word was a god (yes the word "god" was in lowercase letters). He claims that the New World Translation Bible came from a direct translation of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. But the book was published by the Watchtower Society. Very wierd.

Traditional Christianity teaches that Jesus was not only a man but was also God. So can someone be a Christian if they do not believe that Jesus was God as well?

Another interesting tidbit, the guy I studied with said that Jesus came back invisibly to Earth in 1914 (the year WWI) began and the Devil and his angels were kicked out of heaven that year.

Now last time I checked, Jesus said in Matthew 24 that when he came back, it would be known! So how could he have come back invisibly?

Ladies, any other scriptures you can find that support Jesus being God would be greatly appreciated!

I don't know what to say to this guy. I'm supposed to have Bible Study with him again on Monday and I don't wanna!

 

[TJD3]

I dont think Jesus is God. I know I am a Christian. I see that as a technicality anyways. We are to go through Jesus to get to God, not worship Jesus. Does that make sense ? And no, Im not Jehova Witness.

 

[alexstin]

How can someone believe that Jesus is not God and be a Christian? It's an oxymoron.

 

[star]

Jesus is God. GOd multipled himself and put on a robe of flesh to become Jesus thats why he is called the son of God. God the father, God the son(Jesus) and God the holy Ghost. These three are all God in different manifestations. God wanted others to know that He understood the human part of us so He himself came from heaven to redeem us or to save His people. When He sent for Jesus to come to heaven God let us the Holy Spirit with in us to help us. Jesus sits on right hand side of God interceding for us as we pray. The holy spirit guides us and instructs us. God controls everything and everybody.

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. The word Christian has "christ" right in it and it basically means to follow Christ and when you follow Christ you are following God. Do research at www.biblegateway.com on Jesus the son of God. There are TONS of scripture which support this. Muslim, Jews and Jehovah witnesses donot believe Jesus is God but they think he was a angel. Jesus is our intercessor and no body comes to the Father(God) by first believing on Jesus.
Jesus is God in flesh; the holy spirit is God in spirit. God was in heaven and on earth at the same time when Jesus walked the earth.

God Bless

 

[TJD3]

I always thought that being a christian meant that you followed Christs teachings? So that being said, you are a Christian. I dont follow Muslim teachings, I follow Christs, so Im a christian. When I say that I do not believe that Jesus is God, Im not sayihng hes an "angel", I jsut dont believe in the trinity. I think all three are separate and work together. Seated at the right hand of the Father, and different scriptures settled that for me. Not to mention in my readings on Jesus I never remember Him saying that to be his follower that you had to believe He was God. I always remember Him saying that He came here to bring the message for the one who sent Him. That we can only be with the father, and to worship in spirit and in truth. I believe thats in John. Thats it for me!

Show me something I dont know ladies. What am I missing.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I dont think Jesus is God. I know I am a Christian. I see that as a technicality anyways. We are to go through Jesus to get to God, not worship Jesus. Does that make sense ? And no, Im not Jehova Witness.

I actually feel the same way, but I tend to keep it to myself around religious folks.

 

[Trini"T"]

I was a bit confused about this also. Throughout the bible Jesus calls God His Father. He never said I AM God. I never saw "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy spirit in the bible either. However, I'm convinced they are operating as one and I also read John 1:1 which reads, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" . Later in John 1:14 it states, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". This is obviously speaking about Jesus Christ. I too had a conversation about this with a Jehova's Witness but I forgot her reply. Bottomline, she still didn't buy it

Their "bible" says, "...the Word was a god..." I don't get that because if if Jesus is the Word and and he was a god, wouldn't that then mean that God is claiming another god After he already said we are not to have any other gods before Him, why would he present another god, Jesus Christ

 

[TJD3]

I honestly think its all open to interpretation, but the botton line is that we go through Jesus to get to God. He was our living sacrifice to make way for us to get back to our father. A living reminder. Just as the bronze serpent was lifted to remind the Jews of Gods presence and relationship rebuilt with them, Jesus dying on the cross was our bronze serpent. John talks about this in his book.

FOr example, when Jesus spoke to the women at the well. I believe He told her that once the time comes, it would not matter where they worshiped . The bottom line, like I said before, is that they worship in spirit and truth. Like Paul says in Corinthians when people were getting hung up on the fact that you could not be a part of Gods family if you were uncircumscised. Paul told them that that is not the point, we are all welcomed in to the family of God if we believe that Jesus came down, walked among us, died, and rose again to fulfill the scripture. I dont remember anything about anyone saying believe that Jesus is God or your not Christian. I think as Christians we get hung up on technicalitys more so than the main point.

I love God, and I love His son Jesus Christ for what he chose to do for me and this world. I do my best to try to be a christian, but thats what Jesus spoke about. Trying Christians are just that, trying. Its about changing the spirit, the inner self, thus the mind will be transformed. Its about maintaining relationship with God, not breaking that bond because he is always there. Jesus allows us to reenter in that relationship with God through his sacrifice. Thats how I see it.

 

[fivefoursweetie]

This is a very interesting thread. Good points have been made on both sides.
I grew up believing in the trinity, and about 2 years ago, a student at a divinity school told me that the trinity was a taught doctrine, but was never actually mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I have done extensive research and I have not found any concrete "evidence" of the trinity. I do think that a lot of things are up to "interpretation" and sometimes we believe things because that it what we were taught. I don't really get too hung up on it, cause in the end I believe that Jesus is the son of God and died for my sins and that I worship God and pray In Jesus name, because I go through Jesus to get to God. I hope if someone can enlighten me on something else they would share because I love to learn.
Great thread!!!

 

[melangeK]

I believe that you can absolutely be a Christian w/o believing in the Trinity. I've never really understood the Trinity, and have not found anything in the Bible that substansiates it. Like one previous poster, I think Jesus sits @ the right hand of God; I've never seen the Holy Spirit as God...There is ONE God. That's how I was taught the Bible growing up, and reading it for myself over the last 15+ years, it continues to hold water. I think the Trinity is one of the most misunderstood ideas in Christianity, but that's just me.

However, at the end of the day, if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, that God raised him from the dead, and you follow Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior in your life, you are covered and VERY cool with me, regardless of whether you believe in the Trinity. We're all on the same team!

BTW, I'm not Jehovah's Witness either, and know very little about it. Happy Bible studying!

 

[Tamsin2005]

There are many verses that can be studied to support the concept of the Trinity...One God, three persons. Here are a smattering that talk about Jesus as God....John 1:1; Acts 20:28; John 20:28; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8, Col 2:9. The Holy Spirit is identified as God in various scriptures too..Acts 5:3-4; 1John 4: 2, 3; Hebrews 10; 15, 16. Also, the concept of unity is seen within the Trinity in verses like Matthew 28:19 (one "name"). Also Phil 2:5-11 is a good synopsis of Jesus' dual nature as both God and man. You friend will likely try to use many of these scriptures to support his view.

Part of understanding who Jesus is and His work is understanding who God is and how He reveals Himself to us throughout His Word beginning in Genesis. He is the timeless, onmipotent God, who stepped into time and into flesh to save us from our sin. Jesus is that "last Adam" sent to do what the blood of animals could not; that is wipe our sins away. We're so used to thinking in Greek mythology terms about "gods" who produced children with humans. These were less than full "gods" but more than human. That is not the story of Jesus. God can only be fully God. Human flesh did not diminish Him.

Your friend is not really interested in Bible study. He is there to debate with you and without knowing the language of the Bible and using a translation they created to support a view that is not bibical (they used the KJV for years and because of that scripture in John 1:1, they created a translation that suited their needs. No other reputable translater translates that verse as "a god". There are many who don't believe but they don't fake the translation). It is highly likely that he will bring someone with him to your next study as that is a typical strategy they use. The bottom line is, they are not Christian and mostly are not interested in discussing any other view of the Bible than their own, which neither the language or church history support. I would lovingly but firmly cancel the study. I would continue to sincerely pray for him and others like him who have a genuine desire to know the Lord but have chosen to believe things that the Bible (God's word) does not support. It very much matters who you say Jesus is...

 

[mkh_77]

You are NOT a Christian if you do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh.

The bottom line is, they are not Christian . . .

Please refrain from telling people what they are/are not based on your personal beliefs.

Like the other ladies who have posted, I believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God, and I consider myself a Christian.

 

[beyondcute]

No man can be God. Jesus was a man bt I believe he was hte son of God just as I believe we are all childern of God. I think Jesus was a sprphet sent to teach us the ways of the Father, out father. I am a christian because I try ro follow his teachings.

Also about the trinity, I researched that after a pastor told me it was a teaching method. One way or the other I believe that Jesus was here and God exists and that Jesus was sent here by him to show us the truth the way and the light. Genetics and all that doesnt matter

 

[Zeal]

How can someone believe that Jesus is not God and be a Christian? It's an oxymoron.

IMHO

Um why do you not beleve Jesus is God?

Do you believe the Father is God? Do you think Jesus was a blasphemer? Because he said:

(John 10:29-31)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

I can't say that I am God or he and I are one but I can say that he is in me. If I said that he and I were one, that would be blasphemous.

Jesus is God. GOd multipled himself and put on a robe of flesh to become Jesus thats why he is called the son of God. God the father, God the son(Jesus) and God the holy Ghost. These three are all God in different manifestations. God wanted others to know that He understood the human part of us so He himself came from heaven to redeem us or to save His people. When He sent for Jesus to come to heaven God let us the Holy Spirit with in us to help us. Jesus sits on right hand side of God interceding for us as we pray. The holy spirit guides us and instructs us. God controls everything and everybody.


God Bless

Come on up in here!!!! you bettah preach!

I actually feel the same way, but I tend to keep it to myself around religious folks.

Are you "Religious Christian" or a non-religious Christian?

No offense but I am not religious I am saved. I never understood what people meant or the concept of the term "Born-again Christian" I used to think it was redundant. But when you reeeeeally think about it, it makes sense. I don't say it.....
If you say that you are Christian who am I to say that you are not?

What exactly do people mean when they say someoe is religious? I have a relationship with God and it is nothing religious about it.

 

[mkh_77]

(John 10:29-31)
30 I and the Father are one."

Husbands and wives are to become one when they are married, but they aren't interchangeable.

In my opinion, Jesus was a manifestation of God, but he was not God, just as children are manifestations of their parents, but they are not interchangeable with their parents. They (children) are separate entities, just as Jesus was a separate entity from God.

It is ok to not agree fully with everyone. Each person should have their own opinion. It is rude, however, to push your beliefs on someone and insist that they are wrong and you are right. I also think it's rude and non-productive to continually categorize people who post in this forum. It doesn't matter how a person views themselves, and they shouldn't be made to feel as if they have to explain themselves. This is a forum to post ideas on Christianity. Additionally, there are entirely too many subtle put-downs that get typed in this thread and are masked in Christian love. I wish it would stop so there could be a more open discussion of Christianity.

ETA: According to Merriam Webster, religious means, "1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>."

 

[Lotus]

Ladies, any other scriptures you can find that support Jesus being God would be greatly appreciated!

I don't know what to say to this guy. I'm supposed to have Bible Study with him again on Monday and I don't wanna!

Not trying to tell you what to do... I know religion is a very sensitive subject and we don't know each other... but-

If your feeling of not wanting to 'study' with him is not of your flesh but of the Holy Spirit... then don't! Can you determine, if the feeling flesh or of God? If you can't then wait, and pray until you can. I always seem to get in trouble when I ignore the Holy Spirit even when it feels like the nice/right think to do. Be patient, and wait on your confirmation. Just tell him you'd like to re-schedule... and you'll get back with him.

God is not the author of confusion! Are you have "study" in the guise of being preached/ministered to? It is your salvation, you have your own relationship with God and for that you are accountable. Guard your eyes and ears for they are window to your mind.

Did a quick search on the net... found this site, which seems to answer your question- http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm - I have not reviewed all the scriptures listed... with my Bible... so I have no 'true' opinion of the content.

 

[bellydancer]

I don't think Jesus is God either. I thought he was God's SON.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

IMHO

Are you "Religious Christian" or a non-religious Christian?

No offense but I am not religious I am saved. I never understood what people meant or the concept of the term "Born-again Christian" I used to think it was redundant. But when you reeeeeally think about it, it makes sense. I don't say it.....
If you say that you are Christian who am I to say that you are not?

What exactly do people mean when they say someoe is religious? I have a relationship with God and it is nothing religious about it.

Zeal, I don't know if you've read any of my other posts, but I have a tendency towards being abrupt, so if what I say sounds harsh, it's just the way I am and in no way directed to you.

I think of myself simply as a Christian. I don't require any additional titles on top of it. Born Again and Saved are titles that seem just a bit elitist, as though there is a hierarchy in how God views those who love him.

As for my use of the term 'religous folks', it's what I use to refer to people, who need to exert how much better they know the bible and the Lord than I do. Yay for them! I don't argue the point with these types, because I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to think I had better insight than the next Christian as to the truest interpretation of the bible.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I don't know what to say to this guy. I'm supposed to have Bible Study with him again on Monday and I don't wanna!

I missed this the first time I read the post.

If you don't want to have bible study with him, then don't.

 

[mkh_77]

I agree with JCoily 100%.

 

[alexstin]

Zeal,

I do believe Jesus is God. I was stating the irony of NOT believing that and saying you're a Christian. Christianity isn't just about following the teachings of Jesus. If so than it's no different from religion.

Religion is simply man's attempts to reach God. Not possible!

Jesus sacrificed Himself so that we could again have fellowship with the Father through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said He needed to leave so that the Comforter could come. Why was it so important for Holy Spirit to come? We need His power or otherwise our walk would always be a struggle. Have you ever noticed how different the Apostles were before Jesus was crucified as opposed to after when He breathed on them and said Receive Holy Spirit? The boldness and power the Apostles had after Jesus ascended was nothing like the men who followed Jesus for 3 years.

When we come to Christ we are sealed with His Spirit but then we can also receive the infilling of His Spirit to give power. Too many Christians relegate Holy Spirit to the back of their lives when He should be at the forefront. Without Holy Spirit everything we do is out of "head" knowledge and nothing more. We'll recite scriptures and do good things but never truly affect the kingdom darkness.


Think about it. Even the demons believe and tremble. What makes us different?

 

[EbonyEyes]

Thank you ladies for the discussion. It's really interesting. And thank you so much Tamsin2005 for all of those verses. I looked them up and typed some of them here:

I'm using the KJV.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth"

Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood"

**The New World Translation (the Bible the Jehovah's Witnesses use) translates the above verse as: "Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]."

**that verse reads very differently among the translations**

After Jesus told Thomas to touch his hands and his sides so that he might believe, the following is recorded: John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God"

**The New World Translation basically says the same thing**

Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ": The New World Translation translates the above verse as: "While we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus"

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith 'Thy throne, Oh God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom"

**The New World Translation translates the above verse as: "But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of righteousness"

Col 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

**The New World Translation translates the above verse as: "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily."

Acts 5:3-4 "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

**The New World Translation reads similarly**


~~~~~~~~~

An interesting verse is 1 John 5:7 which reads (KJV):

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

**New World Translation: "For there are three witness bearers, the spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are in agreement"

Those read very differently.

1 John 3:16 "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us"

**New World Translation: "By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his soul for us"

Notice God was taken out in the New World Translation.

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Consellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"

**It pretty much reads the same in the New World Translation


Jesus speaks in Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending...thich is, and which was, and which is to come, the almighty"

**The New World Translation "I am Alpha and the Omega says Jehovah God 'the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty'"

Their bible translation replaces Jesus speaking with Jehovah God speaking.

Jesus speaks again in Revelation 1:11 "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"

**That part does NOT exist in the New World Translation.


~~~~~~~~~

I'm so glad that I'm going through the scriptures. So I can see for myself who Jesus Christ is!!

But it's very weird though: There are verses even in the New World Translation that support Jesus being God.

 

[Enchantmt]

Zeal,

I do believe Jesus is God. I was stating the irony of NOT believing that and saying you're a Christian. Christianity isn't just about following the teachings of Jesus. If so than it's no different from religion.

Religion is simply man's attempts to reach God. Not possible!

Jesus sacrificed Himself so that we could again have fellowship with the Father through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said He needed to leave so that the Comforter could come. Why was it so important for Holy Spirit to come? We need His power or otherwise our walk would always be a struggle. Have you ever noticed how different the Apostles were before Jesus was crucified as opposed to after when He breathed on them and said Receive Holy Spirit? The boldness and power the Apostles had after Jesus ascended was nothing like the men who followed Jesus for 3 years.

When we come to Christ we are sealed with His Spirit but then we can also receive the infilling of His Spirit to give power. Too many Christians relegate Holy Spirit to the back of their lives when He should be at the forefront. Without Holy Spirit everything we do is out of "head" knowledge and nothing more. We'll recite scriptures and do good things but never truly affect the kingdom darkness.


Think about it. Even the demons believe and tremble. What makes us different?

Good post.

______________________________




The thing to remember is that there are doctrines that are not called by name. The Trinity has been given as an example. Dr Theime teaches different doctrines, such as rebounding also. I also don't believe the term "Christian" is in the bible. That doesnt mean it isnt valid because we have created a term to refer to a particular aspect. These things are clearly described in the bible.

I'm not really going to get into religion vs religion, other than to say this: The word teaches that anyone who denies that Christ is the Lord and Savior is not true to the faith, they are not saved. Whether they are deceived, ignorant of the facts, or whatever. Anyone can practice the teachings of Christ, anyone can be moral. Biblical prinicples work for whomever chooses to use them. You reap what you sow, etc. However, if Christ is taken out of the equation, Christ, who died and has the power to forgive your sins, then all those principles dont mean squat. Christ enables your salvation, not your own works or any of those prinicples you would follow. You have to be very careful when you are presented with info and take this into account. Deception works best when it has twisted the truth. If it was obvious we wouldnt fall for it.

I gave an example a long time ago of the course in miracles book. My sister had gotten it and was really excited about it and said she would buy me one if I wanted it. It was really expensive at the time. I looked though it and all of the info looked good. It had how to relate to people, forgive people and have a good life. She was practicing the principles and getting good results. God is good however and my eyes fell on a passage that basically said Jesus was a concept, not someone who walked the earth and was the Son of God. Satan was a concept, not a REAL enemy that actively seeks my destruction. Good and evil a concept. The book had everything she needed to have a successfull life on earth, but without Christ, without salvation, it means nothing. Now if I were to tell her or anyone getting good results that it was false, that it was bad, that it twisted doctrine, that it denies Christ, they would think I was crazy. How can it be false if they are getting results and are happier than they have ever been? They have the ingredients for successful living, but they dont have salvation, so it doesnt matter how happy their life is on earth, what goodwill is shown toward fellow man, in the end they would still go to hell.

I say all this to say, know the word for yourself. Know what the bible says about salvation for yourself. Then when someone approaches you with cleverly worded phrases designed to cause doubt or seperation from God you are armed with what you need to guard your faith.


Finally, there are different types of translations. Some are literal some arent. If it is a literal translation is is supposed to be expressed exactly as it was in the original text, where others may paraphrase to make reading easier translate the meaning but its not word for word. What I would suggest is finding a literal translation and then looking up the scriptures that were different in their bible and your bible and see how they are worded.

 

[star]

There are many verses that can be studied to support the concept of the Trinity...One God, three persons. Here are a smattering that talk about Jesus as God....John 1:1; Acts 20:28; John 20:28; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8, Col 2:9. The Holy Spirit is identified as God in various scriptures too..Acts 5:3-4; 1John 4: 2, 3; Hebrews 10; 15, 16. Also, the concept of unity is seen within the Trinity in verses like Matthew 28:19 (one "name"). Also Phil 2:5-11 is a good synopsis of Jesus' dual nature as both God and man. You friend will likely try to use many of these scriptures to support his view.

Part of understanding who Jesus is and His work is understanding who God is and how He reveals Himself to us throughout His Word beginning in Genesis. He is the timeless, onmipotent God, who stepped into time and into flesh to save us from our sin. Jesus is that "last Adam" sent to do what the blood of animals could not; that is wipe our sins away. We're so used to thinking in Greek mythology terms about "gods" who produced children with humans. These were less than full "gods" but more than human. That is not the story of Jesus. God can only be fully God. Human flesh did not diminish Him.

Your friend is not really interested in Bible study. He is there to debate with you and without knowing the language of the Bible and using a translation they created to support a view that is not bibical (they used the KJV for years and because of that scripture in John 1:1, they created a translation that suited their needs. No other reputable translater translates that verse as "a god". There are many who don't believe but they don't fake the translation). It is highly likely that he will bring someone with him to your next study as that is a typical strategy they use. The bottom line is, they are not Christian and mostly are not interested in discussing any other view of the Bible than their own, which neither the language or church history support. I would lovingly but firmly cancel the study. I would continue to sincerely pray for him and others like him who have a genuine desire to know the Lord but have chosen to believe things that the Bible (God's word) does not support. It very much matters who you say Jesus is...

Thank for doing the research I did not have time to post. And ladies if you are in a Bible teaching Church this information should be freely talked about. Make sure you are under somones teaching and not teaching yourself alone. No matter what we people interpret the truth is the truth and nothing changes that. Seek after the truth, search the scriputres, ask question and please in Jesus name make sure you are in a Bible study at your Church.

 

[star]

I always thought that being a christian meant that you followed Christs teachings? So that being said, you are a Christian. I dont follow Muslim teachings, I follow Christs, so Im a christian. When I say that I do not believe that Jesus is God, Im not sayihng hes an "angel", I jsut dont believe in the trinity. I think all three are separate and work together. Seated at the right hand of the Father, and different scriptures settled that for me. Not to mention in my readings on Jesus I never remember Him saying that to be his follower that you had to believe He was God. I always remember Him saying that He came here to bring the message for the one who sent Him. That we can only be with the father, and to worship in spirit and in truth. I believe thats in John. Thats it for me!

Show me something I dont know ladies. What am I missing.

My comments where not directed to you I was replying to the person with question. Talk to your pastor and others who KNOW God's word. Someone with sound doctrine not someone who just read the Bible. You must study, pray, fast and all the above with God's word. The whole Bible not just part of it.

 

[star]

Please refrain from telling people what they are/are not based on your personal beliefs.

Like the other ladies who have posted, I believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God, and I consider myself a Christian.

I am entitled to respond as I see and I was responding to the orignial question from the person who ask the question. She came right out and ask and I answer it just way it is. Not withdrawing anything standing on the principles of God's word. Thank you!!

 

[TJD3]

My comments where not directed to you I was replying to the person with question. Talk to your pastor and others who KNOW God's word. Someone with sound doctrine not someone who just read the Bible. You must study, pray, fast and all the above with God's word. The whole Bible not just part of it.

I didnt think they were, I was stating my opinion. Its funny that you say "who knows" if they were taught to see the things a certain way for years, thats how they will see it. All this colorful language is annoying to me, because I get tired of hearing Bible study words reiterated that someone heard from someone "who knows". Show me someone who KNOWS and you'll show me someone that has all the answers. No one knows anything but the basics, that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus came down, walked among us, died, and rose on the third day we are saved. Thats the bottom line. You can stick whatever you want inbetween, they are technicalitys. Jesus himself said those things are unimportant. Last I checked Jesus never said He was God. He always spoke of His Father. Other humans said he were God. Im going by what my Lord, messiah (anointed one) speaks about. A change in spirit, letting the worldy flesh die, and be full in spirit. I want one of you to show me scripture where He says He is God, than I will be sold. When I read the bible I find a lot of His own followers did not even understand Him completely. They always seemed to fall short in understanding where He was coming from. Many mistook Jesus' teachings literally than for the inferences they were. People that come to mind are Nicodemus, the woman at the well, the apostles, the pharasees. Im sure it goes on and on. So please do not tell me to go find someone who knows. Ask me what I have been doing, and whom Ive spoken too and where I get my ideas from. If someone really knew all the answers, we would nt have so many different denominations within christianity. Dont fall short and turn into the olden day Jews excluding folks because they thought they were the "ones". Also as far as Jesus saying He is the Alph and the Omega, wasnt He there from the beginning? We all know He will be there till the end as well. Its all interpretation.

 

[fivefoursweetie]

An interesting verse is 1 John 5:7 which reads (KJV):

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Thank you for that verse...that helped a lot for me!!!

And that was a great post Enchantmt...very encouraging!!! Thanks

 

[TrustMeLove]

Very interesting thread. I am too much of a fighter for and in Jesus, so I won't post on the thread. But, I would just like to say to some of you ladies stay encourage. Continue to pray that the Holy Spirit helps you pick your battles and have the right things to say to spread his message effectively.

Excellent post by so many alexstin, star, and tamsin just to name a few.

Keep up the good fight.

 

[Tamsin2005]

EbonyEyes: There's a website called freeminds.org that has lots of information about witnessing to JW's. Many years ago, I used to subscribe to the newletter Randy Watters started after he left that organization. Your post made me search for him again. Thank you for that!

TJD3: For so many years we as Christians have relied on what "someone else" has told us about Jesus and the Bible and we have not taken the time to do the study ourselves. The Good news is that God gave us His word to "make Him known" to us. So it's purpose is to reveal God to us. The Bible has to be read both for it's spiritual truth, historical accuracy and cultural context. We read our translations as modern day Americans and not as those who lived at that time. Many of the things that seem questionable to us where plain in the context of the time and the culture of that day. So when we come to the Bible we already have some homework to do. Most of us for example aren't raised in Jewish households with Jewish customs so the context of many things He says is lost on us.

You mention that Jesus never says He was God, however it is clear that everyone around Him, especially the Jewish hierarchy at that time understood clearly that He was in fact directly making that claim. The "crime" that got Him crucified was blasphemy-- making Himself equal with God. (John 8:57-59; John10:30-33) Throughout the NT, Jesus ascribes to Himself all of the qualities of God...He allows others to worship Him (Mt 28:9 for example, He says that He is our Redeemer (see Ps 130.7,8 and compare Acts 2028; the great "I AM" (compare Ex 3:14, Deut. 32:39 , Isaiah 43:10 to John 8:24, John 8:28 and John 18:4-6).

There's more of course but what I've learned throughout my walk with the Lord is the truth of that scripture that says that we will find Him if we seek Him with all of our hearts. Just as we had to study to learn our subjects in school, we have to study God's word. We need good pastors but we also have a personal responsibility in this. The issue you mention about Jesus as God is the core question in Christianity. It is one I have struggled some with in the past. I have gone from "blind" faith believer, to somewhat of a doubter, to a strong "open eyed" worshipper because if all His word says about Him is true, I owe Him a great debt. If it's false, then I am still lost and dead in my sins and Jesus was a misguided though very nice man. So for me it became a "crisis" of faith that has resulted in a greater understanding of the magnitude of His sacrifice for us.