Can someone who doesn't believe that Jesus is God be a Christian?

[Sweet C]

Actually the bible speaks of rewards and crowns for works on earth that are given in heaven, but it is not unto salvation.

Yes, in Revelations, is speaks of the rewards given to the believer like the crowns, etc. I am asking where in scripture does it say that you receive "heavenly points" that must be reported to your local church?

 

[EbonyEyes]

PS- EbonyEyes: I guess the only thing I can say is continue to have that thirst for bible knowledge. That's an excellent thing. Even though we may not agree on the same things at least you seemed to give that fellow JW guy a fair chance. And if you got a sign from God, then I suppose you have your answer. Btw, what sign did you get? Just curious....

You know...I was actually proud of myself for giving him a fair chance. I even told him that I've heard such bad things about them but I wanted to hear from him what they believed. Like I touched on earlier, there were folk that didn't like Jesus because he spoke things, true things, that bothered people and challenged what they thought to be true.

I didn't ask for a sign per se. I asked God to reveal to me through his voice and his word what the truth was about Jesus Christ and that I wanted to know that night! I'm sorry but if worshipping Jesus Christ as God is WRONG then I need to know like yesterday because I am not trying to get in trouble with my heavenly Father. Wrongly worshipping someone other than my Father is a BIG DEAL! But after reading scriptures in my bible and comparing it and contrasting it with the JW's NWT, I received my answer. The answer was as clear as the difference between the moon and the sun. I made sure that I prayed that he speak to me what the meaning of the scriptures were and that I lean not unto my own understanding.

And reading about some of the beliefs of JWs in their own booklet sealed the deal for me.

We don't just disagree on a couple things, we disagree on a lot of things. A lot of really important things.

 

[Blossssom]

Yes, in Revelations, is speaks of the rewards given to the believer like the crowns, etc. I am asking where in scripture does it say that you receive "heavenly points" that must be reported to your local church?

Reported to your local church? Like taxes or something?

To answer the question, no, you can't be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God.

 

[zora]

You know...I was actually proud of myself for giving him a fair chance. I even told him that I've heard such bad things about them but I wanted to hear from him what they believed. Like I touched on earlier, there were folk that didn't like Jesus because he spoke things, true things, that bothered people and challenged what they thought to be true.

I didn't ask for a sign per se. I asked God to reveal to me through his voice and his word what the truth was about Jesus Christ and that I wanted to know that night! I'm sorry but if worshipping Jesus Christ as God is WRONG then I need to know like yesterday because I am not trying to get in trouble with my heavenly Father. Wrongly worshipping someone other than by Father is a BIG DEAL! But after reading scriptures in my bible and comparing it and contrasting it with the JW's NWT, I received my answer. The answer was as clear as the difference between the moon and the sun. I made sure that I prayed that he speak to me what the meaning of the scriptures were and that I lean not unto my own understanding.

And reading about some of the beliefs of JWs in their own booklet sealed the deal for me.

We don't just disagree on a couple things, we disagree on a lot of things. A lot of really important things.

So what did you come up with?

 

[Poohbear]

Not to ruin your feeling of finally feeling comfortable with how you feel on the Jesus/God issue....
But, you prayed for God to help you find the truth right?? Well, suppose this guy's persistence....maybe it could be a sign from God?? Instead of quitting your study with that guy and decidning not to talk to him anymore, what if you just listened to what he had to say and continued to read your bible? Perhaps you need to continue to search??

I don't see what it could hurt. So, you don't agree on everything...that's fine. But I don't think that listening to opposing viewpoints ever killed anyone. As long as he was nice and "understanding", then maybe it wouldn't have been a bad thing?

I'm just saying...this guy seemed nice, and he seemed like he wanted to share with you what he's learning. And for him to take the time out of his schedule in order to help teach someone else about the bible can be viewed as a commendable thing.

But otherwise, I say...continue your search! That is very commendable that you are now trying to search out answers from the bible on your own instead of just believing what your pastors, or other people tell you. I'm a firm believer that the truth will set you free.

But the Bible also says this:

2 Timothy 2:14-26
An Unashamed Workman

14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,

17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

22 Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.

24 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

 

[newme2003]

Crystalice

There would be no point in asking my coworker. I would not expect to get an accurate response. There have been times that I have asked her about things relating to her beliefs and she has given me an elusive response. For instance, there have been many times that she has told me to research the history of many of the Christian denominations. I’ll admit I have not. It will not be “denominations” or “organizations” that God judges, it will be individuals. What I did do was check out the history of the JWs because it just made sense to me that if a person would tell me to check out the history of another religion that theirs would be spotless. What I found on the contrary was horrendous. One day when I asked her about the origins of JW she gave me a very weird response that had nothing to do with the question. I just left it alone.

Yes I understand that you can get a lot of misinformation/straight out lies on the internet but you can also get true information. I like doing research and, therefore, have no problem getting my information from many different websites. The things that were not mentioned on other sites, I did not give attention to. Many things that I have read have been the same.

As for JWs being portrayed poorly in the media, I can honestly say that the only negative information I have heard about the JWs was on the news where there were some claiming to have been sexually abused as kids (silent lambs) – I am sure you have heard this. I believe this. I don’t believe that any religious organization is immune to this. On the contrary, it is Christians who are mocked, mistreated, made to seem like buffoons in the media. There are so many sitcoms, comedians, radio talk show hosts and just the average joes and josephines who constantly portray us in a negative light. But I won’t debate this issue. God said it would happen so who am I to whine about it.

As for me going to the official JW site for my info, I don’t see the point. Does Marilyn Manson think he is a bad guy? Do Bobby and Whitney think they are drug addicts? Okay, okay…that wasn’t right but you get my point. But to be fair, and honest, I have read a couple of articles from Awake and the Watchtower when my coworker used to give them to me. And boy they sounded good and “logical” but I have also read the bible without the assistance of these publications and I know that some things said did not line up with my bible (I am sure they would with the NWT).

As far as your comment about a lot of people calling you a “sect” – never heard it called sect but I know it is considered a cult because it fits in with the definition as such. As a Christian myself, and as any other Christian can attest to, negative things are often said about us but we are to respond in love. Hard but not impossible. Also, I have interacted with other JWs besides the one I am currently working with and have not known any to be treated differently from other people. I will say that they have been very pleasant and outgoing people and have carried themselves in a way that commanded respect.

Not that I think you would but….why don’t you read your bible or any other bible without the aide of the watchtower’s publications. I think you will see things in a different light.

I don’t know you but I want you to know that I love you. And I will be praying for you – because my God gives me that freedom. Chances are that I will not be responding to anything else you say because as I stated before it would be futile. You say you are right, I say I am right – what would be the point.

newme

 

[EbonyEyes]

Reported to your local church? Like taxes or something?

To answer the question, no, you can't be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God.

Hey girl, the thing some disagree on is whether Jesus was God himself, not just the Son of God. The JWs and some on this forum believe that Jesus was the Son of God but NOT God.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Crystalice
For instance, there have been many times that she has told me to research the history of many of the Christian denominations. I

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Crystalice
For instance, there have been many times that she has told me to research the history of many of the Christian denominations. I’ll admit I have not. It will not be “denominations” or “organizations” that God judges, it will be individuals. What I did do was check out the history of the JWs because it just made sense to me that if a person would tell me to check out the history of another religion that theirs would be spotless. What I found on the contrary was horrendous. One day when I asked her about the origins of JW she gave me a very weird response that had nothing to do with the question. I just left it alone.

So, you checked out the history of JW's, but didn't check out the history of many other christian denominations?

Yes I understand that you can get a lot of misinformation/straight out lies on the internet but you can also get true information. I like doing research and, therefore, have no problem getting my information from many different websites. The things that were not mentioned on other sites, I did not give attention to. Many things that I have read have been the same.

Well, at least we agree on one thing. Just be careful about the type of information you get on the internet, because although there is true information online, we all know that time and time again, any Joe-schmoe can make up a website full of garbage information. Some websites and even programs on the net can also be designed to trick people. We can see examples of that just by looking at internet scams and the like.

As for me going to the official JW site for my info, I don’t see the point. Does Marilyn Manson think he is a bad guy? Do Bobby and Whitney think they are drug addicts? Okay, okay…that wasn’t right but you get my point.

Hmmm...I think that's interesting that you don't see a point to that, but I can't convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I see the point you're trying to make about the celebrities and their websites, but all I was trying to say was that just with celebrity OFFICIAL websites, it would be a wise idea to check out the JW OFFICIAL website also. Because, although fan sites of celebrities can be somewhat accurate, if you wanted TRUE up-to-date information about your favorite celebrity, wouldn't you periodically look at the official website of your favorite singer, artist, actor, actress, etc?

And I don't really understand your analogy about Marilyn Manson or Bobby and Whitney and their websites, because I could probably say the same thing about websites dedicated to the Baptist, Jewish, Catholic, or Seven-Day Adventist religions. My goal wasn't to tell you to visit the JW official website so that you could get this rose-colored view about the organization, but just so that 1) you could hear OFFICIALLY what the religion believes (and not just hear-say or interpretation), and 2) so that you could get a balanced view of the organization from the official website, and not just simply unofficial websites. Again, why guess or go by hear-say, when you can read for it yourself on the official website? Even if you don't think your co-worker would be able to give you a "valid" answer (which is understandable since there could be a lot of people who are studying or new to the organization), at least you would know that information on the official site would be accurate.

But to be fair, and honest, I have read a couple of articles from Awake and the Watchtower when my coworker used to give them to me. And boy they sounded good and “logical” but I have also read the bible without the assistance of these publications and I know that some things said did not line up with my bible (I am sure they would with the NWT).

Well, the publications/articles are not supposed to take the place of the bible by any means, but are more like bible aids with a variety of topics that are on the minds of many today.
For example:
-Why do we grow old and die?
-Why is crime so prevalent?
-What is God's purpose for the earth?
-Why does God permit suffering?
-Who is Jesus Christ? (this actually pertains to what this thread is about).

I mean there is a plethora of information in our articles, some not even dealing with serious bible topics. In fact, in our Awake's and Watchtower's alone there is enough information to provide someone with a college level education. I'm serious!

May I also ask what information from the publications didn't line up with your bible? If you don't want to list all of it on this thread, you can feel free to PM me.

As far as your comment about a lot of people calling you a “sect” – never heard it called sect ...

Take a look at some of the original poster's posts. I think she mentions something about JW's being a sect. But this term sect/cult has been used to describe JW's before.

...but I know it is considered a cult because it fits in with the definition as such.

Well, I'm sorry you/other people feel that way. Again, I can't change someone's opinion about us, but I don't feel that JW's are a cult. Not in the least! If I did, or felt in any way that JW's were a cult I would not be a JW. Plain and simple. Yet again, you never hear of Baptists being a "cult", or catholics being a "cult", etc.... Why is that? Ever wondered why?

As a Christian myself, and as any other Christian can attest to, negative things are often said about us but we are to respond in love.

Exactly! That is the correct attitude.

Also, I have interacted with other JWs besides the one I am currently working with and have not known any to be treated differently from other people.

Well, maybe you should look up some more history on JW's. For example, some people are surprised to know that JW's were also thrown into concentration camps along with the Jews during the Nazi regime.

I will say that they have been very pleasant and outgoing people and have carried themselves in a way that commanded respect.

That's always great to hear!

Not that I think you would but….why don’t you read your bible or any other bible without the aide of the watchtower’s publications. I think you will see things in a different light.

I do! In fact we are encouraged to read our bible's every single day. Like I said before, nothing can take the place of the bible. The publications are just inspired from the bible. It doesn't take the place of the bible.

I don’t know you but I want you to know that I love you. And I will be praying for you – because my God gives me that freedom. Chances are that I will not be responding to anything else you say because as I stated before it would be futile. You say you are right, I say I am right – what would be the point.

newme

Well, thank you for your open ear. You seem like an open-minded person. I just hope I was able to help clear up some information, since there is a lot of erroneous information out there.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Yes, in Revelations, is speaks of the rewards given to the believer like the crowns, etc. I am asking where in scripture does it say that you receive "heavenly points" that must be reported to your local church?

Well, let me just add one last thing. This business about "heavenly points" is pure rubbish. I don't even know where someone got this information from!

As many of you know, JW's go out preaching (like Jesus commanded in the bible), and every month we report our progress to the congregation. This is SIMPLY for records information, and nothing more! It let's us know how our work is doing around the world. It is a source of encouragement to see how our brothers and sisters say in Greece, Cameroon, France, South America are doing and the progress that they are making! It really is encouraging!

It has nothing to do with heaven or rights or privleges or your future or whatever that website said. I'm telling you....just out right LIES on the internet!

 

[Sweet C]

Thanks for that clarification CQ123, cause that was not making any sense to me!

 

[EbonyEyes]

Well ladies,

This guy has not given up as I suspected he wouldn't. I was warned that some JWs are persistent and don't understand the words "I don't agree with you. So let's just end this." I wrote him a week ago that my belief on Jesus has not changed. It was a quick response.

He writes me back this email today trying to convince me that I'm wrong for worshipping Jesus as God. He has the NERVE to say that he's not trying to prove me wrong -- the scriptures will do so!!!! But the funny thing was, the scripture he mentioned proved my point! It was hilarious. He says that it's good that I continue to search through the scriptures.

I did write him back. And I said what I had to say. I used the same scriptures that he was trying to use to disprove my belief to support it. I told him that it's not only important to search in the scriptures but to also PRAY to God that he helps you understand what you are reading. I then ended my email by saying that I've been searching the scriptures with an open mind and actually entertained the idea that he just might be right. However, he's searching the scriptures to try to prove to me that HE is right. I challenged him to search the scriptures with an open mind like I did for him.

If he writes back with more convincing of why Jesus isn't God...Hmm...Unfortunately, I can't block email with my email account. I'm going to have to pray on the best way to let this guy know that "Look, We're not going to agree on this so how about we stop going back and forth on this?" without being cruel.

I can say this experience has taught me that you have to stay in the word AND stay in prayer with God!! Because someone can come up to you using the Word of God to tell you something that is totally untrue.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Well ladies,

This guy has not given up as I suspected he wouldn't. I was warned that some JWs are persistent and don't understand the words "I don't agree with you. So let's just end this." I wrote him a week ago that my belief on Jesus has not changed. It was a quick response.

He writes me back this email today trying to convince me that I'm wrong for worshipping Jesus as God. He has the NERVE to say that he's not trying to prove me wrong -- the scriptures will do so!!!! But the funny thing was, the scripture he mentioned proved my point! It was hilarious. He says that it's good that I continue to search through the scriptures.

I did write him back. And I said what I had to say. I used the same scriptures that he was trying to use to disprove my belief to support it. I told him that it's not only important to search in the scriptures but to also PRAY to God that he helps you understand what you are reading. I then ended my email by saying that I've been searching the scriptures with an open mind and actually entertained the idea that he just might be right. However, he's searching the scriptures to try to prove to me that HE is right. I challenged him to search the scriptures with an open mind like I did for him.

If he writes back with more convincing of why Jesus isn't God...Hmm...Unfortunately, I can't block email with my email account. I'm going to have to pray on the best way to let this guy know that "Look, We're not going to agree on this so how about we stop going back and forth on this?" without being cruel.

I can say this experience has taught me that you have to stay in the word AND stay in prayer with God!! Because someone can come up to you using the Word of God to tell you something that is totally untrue.

I've read everyone's responses and it's quite interesting. However, I won't expound on any of it because sometimes it can make things worse. But, my advise to you is "DON'T ANSWER HIS EMAILS" any longer. Let him write, but don't respond. It's that simple. Sometimes as believers, we want so much for people to know the truth and be saved. It's in us...it's who we are. However, some people won't get it. I have been talking to people (evangelizing, ministering) for 18 years. It's so interesting to hear what people believe and how they respond to your questions. And believe me, I've talked to many people who believe in many things.

I find that there are people who will listen, and then there will be people who won't. That's ok. They did it when Jesus walked the earth, and they will do it to you and me. I love what I do and I pray everyday that the people that I come into contact with will give their lives to Jesus Christ. Sometimes, its rough, but overall, it's a blessing! Remember this one thing: We plant, someone else will water, but it is God who gives the increase!

You are right, stay in prayer with God! Always know who YOU are in Christ Jesus and remain faithful to Him. He is always with you, never leaving or forsaking you. His love for you is all you need to know that He is God!

Praying that you will continue to study to show yourself approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth!

Blessings to you!

 

[mkh_77]

. . . Jesus was a great man, a sinless man. He was the son of God but he was NOT God!

Traditional Christianity teaches that Jesus was not only a man but was also God. So can someone be a Christian if they do not believe that Jesus was God as well?

Ladies, any other scriptures you can find that support Jesus being God would be greatly appreciated!

"Do not cling to me," said Jesus, "for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers, and tell them that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." John 20:17

I still believe that Jesus, in his human form, was a manifestation of God on Earth, but he was not God while he walked the Earth; he was just a man as evidenced by the verse above where he makes a distinction between himself and God.

So, yes, someone who doesn't believe that Jesus was God can be a Christian.

 

[michc]

Interesting responses. As one of the earlier posters said the word Christian has 'Christ' right there in it - so how can you claim to follow Him and not believe what He says (i.e that He is God - "I and the Father are one" - can't get much clearer than that).

Remember - just because you believe something is right doesn't change the fact that in God's eyes you are wrong.

The long and short of it is no, you CAN NOT be a Christian and believe that Christ is not God.

 

[napgurl]

Trinity God in three different states like water in three different states

water is water but water can be ice and water can be steam.