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Caster Semenya Hopes To 'run Free' Again After Swiss Supreme Court Offers A Reprieve (Update)

huxtable

Well-Known Member
For most of history women had nothing. Now we are getting a little something and men want to call themselves women and take the little that we have. Where were they when we did not have the right to vote, when could not even compete in events like these?

This taking of our spaces BY MEN is serious business and should not be ignored. Women who align with them should really give it some deep thought because these men are coming from a place of real envy and contempt for women and at the end of the day you are a women and they will eventually come for you should you dare step out of line.

They probably all up in this forum as well.
 

naturalgyrl5199

Well-Known Member
Am I correct in assuming Caster is losing her battle because it’s a Swiss court? If this were in the US, it seems like she’d be able to compete and steal all she wants from women... Why is that trans man CeCe, posted above, allowed to compete in women’s sports? Is the US so far gone when it comes to this trans thing that men can now just say “feel like a woman inside”, and be allowed to dominate all the women’s sporting events??
People try to assure us that under no circumstances will women who identify as women will be erased in society. But we were worried about the above 10 years ago and here we are. I'm in the birth work world and this is argued a lot. We know that people who identify as male but were born female can have babies. Arguments about "birthing person" vs the "nursing mom." "Arguments about chest feeding vs breastfeeding----even though men and women have breast tissue." The MTF transgender person who wanted access to breast cancer services/grants targeted to women. The real worry that eliminating womanhood and women may see an erasure of female targeted medical initiatives like maternal mortality in black women, money and grants for women-related health issues ONLY found in women. So called feminists on both sides, black women and other non-wyte woc on both sides arguing, name calling. I'm tired.
 

Maracujá

November 2020 --> 14 years natural!!!
People try to assure us that under no circumstances will women who identify as women will be erased in society. But we were worried about the above 10 years ago and here we are. I'm in the birth work world and this is argued a lot. We know that people who identify as male but were born female can have babies. Arguments about "birthing person" vs the "nursing mom." "Arguments about chest feeding vs breastfeeding----even though men and women have breast tissue." The MTF transgender person who wanted access to breast cancer services/grants targeted to women. The real worry that eliminating womanhood and women may see an erasure of female targeted medical initiatives like maternal mortality in black women, money and grants for women-related health issues ONLY found in women. So called feminists on both sides, black women and other non-wyte woc on both sides arguing, name calling. I'm tired.
Yup, noticed the same semantics while working at a health insurance company. So disheartening. Had to walk on eggshells when addressing customers on the phone too :nono:.
 

luckiestdestiny

Well-Known Member
While I agree that until her testosterone levels are lowered within a normal female range, she should not be allowed to compete with women, unless women competing in her events were allowed to dope. However, the bolded is NOT accurate. In Caster's case, while she may have XY chromosomes, her body is insensitive to testosterone's effects. Androgen insensitivity syndrome or AIS can be complete or incomplete due to a malfunction of the SRY gene on the Y chromosome.

Every fetus essentially starts out as "beta female" with internal gonads and it's the activation or inactivation of anti-mullerian hormones that determines how these gonads develop (anti-mullerian hormone triggered by SRY gene to up-regulate androgen production causes the development of testes and destruction of the residual tissue that would form the Fallopian tubes/ovaries). Due to some mutation, Caster's body did not respond completely, so while she has internal "testes" that may produce excessive androgens, the receptors on her body's cells don't respond as a male would in the presence of testosterone, rendering her effectively female. Even if Caster were to take in additional testosterone via injections, her results as far as muscular development would never reach that of a man because her cellular receptors don't respond to androgens. In hormonal conditions such as PCOS in women, overproduction of estrogen can inter-convert this excess estrogen to testosterone quite easily which is what causes excess hair, amenorrhea, and male type central obesity in women with the condition.

A transgender female (MTF), would have both normal responses in androgen production levels and and androgen receptor activity, thus making them effectively male. Sex hormones are weird and not exactly as cut and dry as they may seem. Testosterone and estrogen readily convert back and forth and levels that are too low or too high even in normal cisgender male and females can cause systematic issues.
Thanks for explaining this. Okay so she's female...but with too high testosterone. But at least I now understand why she can be considered a woman instead of a male.

I agree with you though that she should not be allowed with women in competition unless those women are allowed to dope to get the same genetic advantage. She's not just a little out of range, she's so far out of range of testosterone that it is just not fair to anyone competing.
 

luckiestdestiny

Well-Known Member
I just feel sorry for her and the women who are denied medals because of her. She should not run with women, whom she will beat, and she should not run with men, who will beat her. Semenya should be in a race for intersex people but they are not enough around to create a race category at these events.
This sucks right here.
 

luckiestdestiny

Well-Known Member
This is the point. Biologically he is a male not a female with high testosterone. I am glad they are fighting his appeal.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/19/caster-semenya-biologically-male-iaaf/


Women’s Olympic Champion Caster Semenya Is ‘Biologically Male,’ IAAF Says


June 19th, 2019

Caster Semenya of South Africa looks on prior to competing in the Women's 800 metres during the IAAF Diamond League event at the Khalifa International Stadium on May 03, 2019 in Doha, Qatar. (Francois Nel/Getty Images)
Women’s Olympic champion Caster Semenya is a biological male, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF), the world’s largest sports governing body, argued in court.

Semenya, the South African runner who dominated the female competition in the women’s 800M at the 2016 London Olympics, is fighting an IAAF requirement that biologically male runners suppress their testosterone below a certain level in order to compete in female events.





Media reporting on the subject has often left outthe fact that the IAAF’s rule only applies to runners with male chromosomes rather than female runners with high testosterone levels.

The IAAF called the requirement “an extremely progressive compromise” between protecting the integrity of women’s sports and accommodating “certain biologically male athletes with female gender identities” like Semenya who want to compete in women’s sports, the court documents show.

The IAAF added that “there are some contexts where biology has to trump identity.” (RELATED: Every Democratic 2020 Frontrunner Supports Bill Forcing Male Athletes Into Girls’ Sports)



Semenya at France’s LNA Pro Athle Tour meeting on June 11, 2019 (GEOFFROY VAN DER HASSELT/AFP/Getty Images)

Semenya reportedly has “5-alpha reductase deficiency” (5-ARD), a medical condition affecting male sexual development.


Semenya’s case, the IAAF reiterated, “is not about biological females and how their bodies respond to testosterone; it is about biological males with 5-ARD (and other [male sexual development disorders]), how their bodies respond to testosterone, and the performance advantages of that response when they compete against biological females.”

Athletes with 5-ARD are “biologically indistinguishable… in all relevant aspects” from typical male athletes, with the only major difference being the “size and shape of their external genitals,” the IAAF argued.


Semenya celebrates winning the Women’s 800 meters during the IAAF Diamond League event at the Khalifa International Stadium on May 03, 2019 in Doha, Qatar. (Francois Nel/Getty Images)

“People with this condition are genetically male, with one X and one Y chromosome in each cell, and they have male gonads (testes),” the U.S. National Library of Medicine’s explainer on 5-ARD states. “Their bodies, however, do not produce enough of a hormone called dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT has a critical role in male sexual development, and a shortage of this hormone disrupts the formation of the external sex organs before birth.”

The Switzerland-based Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) ruled in favor of the IAAF last month but before Tuesday, “CAS had previously released only short excerpts of the final verdict when it was announced last month,” the Associated Press reported.


Semenya appealed the verdict to the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland, which announced June 3 that it was suspending the IAAF’s rule while it considers Semenya’s appeal
Semenya reportedly has “5-alpha reductase deficiency” (5-ARD), a medical condition affecting male sexual development.


Semenya’s case, the IAAF reiterated, “is not about biological females and how their bodies respond to testosterone; it is about biological males with 5-ARD (and other [male sexual development disorders]), how their bodies respond to testosterone, and the performance advantages of that response when they compete against biological females.”



Geez if this definition is true versus the other provided by our lhcf member, then she is a male and that's that. No more of this confusion. Caster needs to run with males or in a different category. I guess I need to keep reading before I finish responding because I'm now seeing how this thread is old and it seems like a book where there are surprise endings :lol: .
 

LivingInPeace

Well-Known Member
Semenya reportedly has “5-alpha reductase deficiency” (5-ARD), a medical condition affecting male sexual development.


Semenya’s case, the IAAF reiterated, “is not about biological females and how their bodies respond to testosterone; it is about biological males with 5-ARD (and other [male sexual development disorders]), how their bodies respond to testosterone, and the performance advantages of that response when they compete against biological females.”



Geez if this definition is true versus the other provided by our lhcf member, then she is a male and that's that. No more of this confusion. Caster needs to run with males or in a different category. I guess I need to keep reading before I finish responding because I'm now seeing how this thread is old and it seems like a book where there are surprise endings :lol: .
Look, I could have told everyone that's a man. Ain't no need for lab work.
 

luckiestdestiny

Well-Known Member
Look, I could have told everyone that's a man. Ain't no need for lab work.
:lachen:I wanted to understand the science behind things in case I was wrong. Nobody's perfect. I was on the 1601138980126.png train of thought from the beginning but conceded that I might not know everything because science is not my field and though I can appreciate and process information adequately, maybe something was missing that I didn't know that others in the field did. Like: perhaps somehow her genetic makeup rendered the Y ineffective in some way. The explanation by the previous poster seemed valid so I yielded instead of going with my better instincts :lachen: :rofl:And because it was late, I wasn't in research mode and saw no one contradicting so I was like, okay then...I guess this is what happens in development to all of us and then the way we express changes things but somehow there was a mix up in her body. However, science has defined this condition as decidely male so none of that matters.
 
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luckiestdestiny

Well-Known Member
I forgot to post this part which was most amusing:

Media reporting on the subject has often left outthe fact that the IAAF’s rule only applies to runners with male chromosomes rather than female runners with high testosterone levels.



Ain't that some b.s :rofl: I mean...that means all of the back and forth of this thread is for nothing. Basically, if Caster were intersex, Caster could run against other women without altering her hormones/ If she were a woman with high testosterone levels, she'd be cleared to run against women with normal levels of testosterone (for our sex). And still some would think that's unfair because of the disadvantage of how high her levels are (testosterone) for her sport but if she were a woman, defined, caster would still be able to run.


Their final thoughts on this sum up how reasonable they were being to her and possibly unreasonable to women runners in the field just to work within the context of all these new definitions and identifications that could perhaps compromise women athletes at their expense:

The IAAF called the requirement “an extremely progressive compromise” between protecting the integrity of women’s sports and accommodating “certain biologically male athletes with female gender identities” like Semenya who want to compete in women’s sports, the court documents show.

However Caster's a man, by law (and reality :look: because no one wants to look at that anymore) and as such they are like lower your testosterone if you want to compete. That means because of the condition, they'd allow a man to compete against women in this sport if they would just lower their testosterone. And Caster has the nerve to wanna cry foul. Yes this was a lbgtq+ initiative let's face it that would also lean towards other men like transwomen who want to compete against women.
 
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