Caster Semenya Hopes To 'run Free' Again After Swiss Supreme Court Offers A Reprieve

Discussion in 'News - Breaking News & Political Forum' started by Leeda.the.Paladin, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Leeda.the.Paladin

    Leeda.the.Paladin Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Switzerland's Federal Supreme Court has temporarily blocked a rule that kept track star Caster Semenya from competing, saying she should be allowed to race while her appeal proceeds. Track and field's international governing body has said Semenya can't compete in her signature event unless she lowers her testosterone levels.

    The Swiss court ruled Monday that Semenya, an Olympic and world champion in the 800 meters, should be allowed to "compete without restriction in the female category" during her appeal.

    The International Association of Athletics Federations recently changed its rules, with the result requiring that Semenya, 28, lower her testosterone artificially before she can compete against other women in the 800 meters and other track events.

    "I am thankful to the Swiss judges for this decision," South Africa's Semenya said in a statement about the ruling. "I hope that following my appeal I will once again be able to run free."

    [​IMG]
    NATIONAL
    'I Am A Woman': Track Star Caster Semenya Continues Her Fight To Compete As Female

    Semenya's attorney in the Swiss case, Dorothee Schramm of the Sidley Austin law firm, said the court had given Semenya "temporary protection."

    "This is an important case that will have fundamental implications for the human rights of female athletes," Schramm said.

    In the next step in the legal dispute, the Swiss Supreme Court will give the IAAF a chance to submit its arguments for maintaining its regulation that effectively banned Semenya — who has refused to manipulate her testosterone levels. The court will then issue what could be its final ruling on the IAAF's prohibition that blocks female athletes with high testosterone levels, even in cases where those elevations occur naturally. The IAAF has warned those female athletes that they need to drop their testosterone levels to be eligible to compete.

    "The IAAF suggests this reduction be done by taking hormonal contraceptives, and it emphasizes that surgical changes are not required," as NPR's Laurel Wamsley has reported.

    [​IMG]
    SPORTS
    Court Rules Against Caster Semenya, Says She Must Lower Testosterone To Compete

    Semenya's case has raised complicated questions, including the nature of holding separate competitions for men and women, how much of athletes' abilities might be due to hormones, and how to reconcile a blanket fairness policy with athletes who have what are called Differences of Sex Development, or DSDs — a term that also applies to people who are known as intersex.

    As NPR's Melissa Block has reported:

    "Caster Semenya was raised as a female and is legally female. She's fighting rules that affect DSD athletes who have what are typically male, XY chromosomes; who were born with internal testes; and have testosterone levels higher than the typical female range."

    Last month, Semenya lost a separate case before the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which ruled that while the regulations regarding DSD athletes are discriminatory, they're also "necessary, reasonable and proportionate," as a way to ensure fair competition through regulating hormone levels.

    Semenya contends that the IAAF's regulations unfairly discriminate against athletes on the basis of sex or gender, because they apply only to female athletes — and only to a subset of female athletes who have certain traits.

    The IAAF's regulations require female athletes in restricted events — from the 400m to the mile — to keep their testosterone below a certain level for at least six months before a competition, and to maintain it below that threshold as long as they want to be eligible to race.

    The testosterone limit kicks in at 5 nmol/L (nanomoles per liter).

    "Most females (including elite female athletes) have low levels of testosterone circulating naturally in their bodies (0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L in blood)," the IAAF said when it announced the new rule, "while after puberty the normal male range is much higher (7.7 – 29.4 nmol/L)."

    When Semenya lost her appeal last month, the IAAF said she and other female athletes who have testosterone levels above 5 nmol/L had one week to bring them down, urging the women to begin their "suppressive treatment as soon as possible."

    But instead of starting that treatment to preserve her eligibility, Semenya took her fight to another court.

    "I am a woman and I am a world-class athlete," she said last week. "The IAAF will not drug me or stop me from being who I am."
     
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  2. dancinstallion

    dancinstallion Well-Known Member

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    Naw homey, lower those Damn teststosterone levels first then we can talk about you running against the women in the 800m.


    I was pissed when she was allowed to run the last time taking the medals away from other women. A trained runner, athlete, coach, spectator, know when the winner is winning because of something other than natural talent and hard work like steroids and high testosterone levels.

    The last time I saw Semenya run she coasted behind the leader then kicked it into third gear and sped past the leader. I said bullshi**, even the women record holders can't do that. She is a man only men can do that.

    Found another race of her. Even the commentator is talking about her kick and how it is rare and never seen in the 800m.



    FYI, A kick in a running race is the ability of some athletes to sprint at the end of an endurance oriented race.

    usually only seen in men races or long distance runners.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  3. Crackers Phinn

    Crackers Phinn Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.

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    "Most females (including elite female athletes) have low levels of testosterone circulating naturally in their bodies (0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L in blood)," the IAAF said when it announced the new rule, "while after puberty the normal male range is much higher (7.7 – 29.4 nmol/L)." When Semenya lost her appeal last month, the IAAF said she and other female athletes who have testosterone levels above 5 nmol/L had one week to bring them down, urging the women to begin their "suppressive treatment as soon as possible."

    This is ridiculous. Caster deserves the taste slapped outta it's mouth talking about sportsmanship while knowing good and damn well, it is exploiting a loophole that is screwing over an entire field of women athletes. That ain't sisterhood, bruh.
     
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  4. itsallaboutattitude

    itsallaboutattitude Well-Known Member

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    Is Michael Phelps going to be required to produce lactic acid before he races?

    ETA: shorten his arm span?
     
  5. Crackers Phinn

    Crackers Phinn Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.

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    Don't care. Let the men he competes with deal with that.
     
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  6. itsallaboutattitude

    itsallaboutattitude Well-Known Member

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    I hope she wins her fight. They create these new rules for this specific Olympic event to target her.

    Was angry that they first violated her by making her submit to a gynecological exam after she submitted proof she was a woman.

    Then made her do all these tests.

    Now change the rules and want to chemically change her.

    Where is the list of female athletes that are to be chemically altered.

    B—-ds
     
  7. Leeda.the.Paladin

    Leeda.the.Paladin Well-Known Member

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    That’s a little different, now. We all know that some athletes are genetically gifted and that contributes to their victories. But we specifically created different categories for men and women simply because of what testosterone does to the body.

    Being genetically predisposed to having a runner’s body is not at all the same thing as having more testosterone. I accept that she’s a woman, although she does have internal testes (right?), and I feel bad that she’s having this problem. But I also have to wonder what good her victory is when she has this unfair advantage.

    I mean, I think even if she followed the rules of trying to lower her testosterone, that the “damage” has been done.
     
  8. Kanky

    Kanky Well-Known Member

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    :lol: Of course not. We don’t separate short arm people and long arm people and make them compete in different events. We make men and women compete in different events because of the obvious physical advantages of being a man. World class female athletes cannot outperform mediocre make athletes. For example Serena Williams lost to some random tennis dude who didn’t even make the top 10 in his sport.

    I amazed that women are arguing to be unfairly forced to compete with men physically.
     
  9. HappilyLiberal

    HappilyLiberal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... this is about where I am on this. Is it unfair to other women... absolutely. What gives me pause is that she was born that way. She isn't using banned substances. She didn't surgically or chemically alter herself. So, to me, this is going down a slippery slope to require her to chemically alter her natural make-up.
     
  10. metro_qt

    metro_qt Well-Known Member

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    I love your answer!!! LOLOLOL
     
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  11. metro_qt

    metro_qt Well-Known Member

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    This is going to sound super petty of me.
    I can't think of any other answer.
    Yes. Caster was born this way, so I guess she should, and is allowed to compete in any event she chooses, EVEN THOUGH HER TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ARE 5 TIMES THE LEVELS OF THE OTHER WOMEN....

    so.... as other competitors... I would just say that they boycott the events she runs in.

    She wants to run to win against other women... but you can't win, if there are no other women to run against.
    (no rules have been violated anywhere)

    I know. #petty.
     
  12. Crackers Phinn

    Crackers Phinn Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.

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    I think this is one of those cases where folks are arguing on behalf of her being black first but there are black women who are getting screwed out of wins by this as well. When you sacrifice the majority of women for the exception, where the hell does that leave us? Caster is fighting for what's best for her regardless of who's expense it comes at, I wish other women would do the same to defend themselves.
     
  13. SlimPickinz

    SlimPickinz Summer where are you?

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    This is how I feel about it. It's not her fault she was born with testes, and it is not her competitors' fault that she has a naturally unfair advantage. I would boycott any races that she was allowed to compete in. I know it's easier said than done because these women spend $$$$$ training and have dedicated their lives to perfecting their craft. But ehhhh gotta do what you gotta do to make it happen.
     
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  14. dancinstallion

    dancinstallion Well-Known Member

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    Do ya'll hear yourselves. She was born with Testes!!!!. Female's, girls, are not born with testes!!!!! She is intersexed. We don't have a category for that yet.

    She can run with the men who have high testosterone levels like her. She is much more like a man than she is a woman. She acts like a man, walks like a man, dresses like a man, is married to a woman. o_O

    She only chooses to run against women cuz she can beat them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  15. HappilyLiberal

    HappilyLiberal Well-Known Member

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    This I did not know... Yeah... she needs to go somewhere!
     
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  16. itsallaboutattitude

    itsallaboutattitude Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen Castor lose races, she isn’t winning 100% of the time.

    We only know she has internal testes instead of ovaries because of what the Olympic committee put her thru. Forcing her to take dna tests when a gynecologist exam showed she got a vagina.

    This is not being done with all female Olympic sports.

    Most intersex men and women have no idea unless they are trying to have a baby or some other medical conditions present themself.

    I’ve seen a number of female gymnasts that I question, but the Olympic committee doesn’t require gymnasts to be tested for high testosterone. No other sport does this.

    And the fact that MP body does not produce lactic acid like the rest of the folks he is competing against is the closest example I can provide since he voluntarily has participated in analysis of his body and why he performs so well. He too has a chemical advantage within his sport. Naturally occurring. But because it’s not estrogen no big deal.

    Edit - corrected disadvantage to advantage in 3rd to last sentence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  17. Leeda.the.Paladin

    Leeda.the.Paladin Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think she should be forced to take meds but I agree a boycott by other participants would probably get the point across.

    Caster can’t compete against men either because I’m pretty sure they’d out do her. Her testosterone doesn’t seem to be as high as a man, but higher than the average woman. She’s in a unfortunate middle ground.

    She also has the option of moving up to the 5000m but I see that she refuses to do that.

    I’m confused by your example. What is his chemical disadvantage? His producing less lactic acid is a benefit, not a hindrance. Even if he were producing estrogen, no one (but him) would care because estrogen (as far as I know) does not give people a physical advantage in sports. Testosterone does.

    Lots of things naturally occurring in MP and other athletes give them an advantage, most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  18. Leeda.the.Paladin

    Leeda.the.Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Her wife is pretty.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. HappilyLiberal

    HappilyLiberal Well-Known Member

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    Because except for vault, and maybe floor, men are at an extreme disadvantage competing the women's events in gymnastics. In this case, her excessive testosterone gives her an advantage in women's track and field.
     
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  20. dicapr

    dicapr Well-Known Member

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    Not the same. She doesn’t have naturally high testosterone for a woman. If that was the case there wouldn’t be that much controversy surrounding her performing in female sports.

    Genetically she is XY and has a hormone level that reflects that.
     
  21. itsallaboutattitude

    itsallaboutattitude Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know who has put out into the public Castors full medical records. Where can I find that?

    I do not know for a fact that she is inter-sexed. For what I’ve read the assumption has been made she must be intersex cause she got a vagina but looks like a man. Oh and has high level of testosterone.

    After reading this article, I ask again what other female athlete’s have high level of testosterone. They keep putting Castor’s name out there and no one else.


    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/id...ter-semenya-800-gender-race-intersex-athletes
     
  22. itsallaboutattitude

    itsallaboutattitude Well-Known Member

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    @Leeda.the.Paladin

    MP’s competition produce lactic acid while swimming he does not.

    Lactic acid build up is that burn in your muscles as you are over exerting yourself.

    “This can lead to injury and lactic acidbuilding. Lactic acid is produced in your muscles and builds up during intense exercise. It can lead to painful, sore muscles. Lactic acid buildup due to exercise is usually temporary and not cause for a lot of concern, but it can affect your workouts by causing discomfort.”
     
  23. Leeda.the.Paladin

    Leeda.the.Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know. Maybe I’m confused on what yo’ure trying to say. You said in your other post that MP is at a chemical disadvantage. Did you mean he has an advantage? If so, I agree. Also, He does produce lactic acid, just not as much, is what I read.

    From this link: https://www.scienceabc.com/sports/michael-phelps-height-arms-torso-arm-span-feet-swimming.html

    When human bodies performs any physical activity, they produce lactic acid. This substance causes fatigue and slows down muscle contraction. In order to get ready for another round of physical activity, our bodies need to flush out this acid. In order to do that, it needs a certain amount of recovery time.

    [​IMG]
    Glucose is used up during workouts and after the energy is burned, it is converted to lactate.

    Athletes often envy Phelps because it has been scientifically proven that his body produces only half the lactic acid that his rivals need to handle. This
    significantly reduces his recovery time.

    Many, if not all, athletes face issues of tight muscles, muscle pulls, hamstrings and body stiffness in the lower body during their training. Although this can be tackled by stretching the target muscles with the use of dedicated equipment like stretching machines, Phelps has a natural advantage in this area too.
     
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  24. Leeda.the.Paladin

    Leeda.the.Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so from what I read from the CAS media report: https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_Semenya_ASA_IAAF_decision.pdf , the testosterone rule being imposed on Caster is ONLY for people who are XY. She is XY. From what I understand, they excluded all women who are XX from this rule.
     
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  25. itsallaboutattitude

    itsallaboutattitude Well-Known Member

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    They also say they sent letters to all female athletes with high testosterone. Is one or more than one athlete.

    I still stand that she was targeted cause at 18 she was young black and fast.

    I, in my late 40’s, just had my hormones checked.

    General population this is not a test being performed on everyone. Who, what determines what is normal range?

    I’ve given the personal example of how my gall bladder processes food. The last time it was tested it was processing at 14%. My doc said you know this is extremely low and maybe a cause for your hospitalization.

    We may need to remove it. However, this is just a guess, we are comparing your processing to other unhealthy patients. We don’t know if this is how your body works and has worked for years and really it is something else that is going on.

    It’s well over a decade since that test result and conversation. I still have my gall bladder doing what it does and I still don’t have a diagnosis for my hospitalization. No relapse. Well, I’ve gone to the ER but have not been admitted since then.

    Also who is being used as a baseline for testosterone levels? White women?

     
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  26. dicapr

    dicapr Well-Known Member

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    The issue is that she is not genetically a woman. High testosterone in a woman is not equal to the testosterone levels achievable in a genetic male. This is the same argument that many have with transgendered women competing with genetic women. It isn’t discriminatory to acknowledge there are differences between men and women.

    Biologically it isn’t the same. This isn’t a woman with abnormally high testosterone results this is someone who is inter-sexed displaying hormonal levels more in line with their genetic makeup.

    No one is saying she can’t compete. She just needs to compete on a fair playing field.
     
  27. dancinstallion

    dancinstallion Well-Known Member

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    Very well put
     
  28. yamilee21

    yamilee21 Well-Known Member

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    Dutee Chand is an Indian runner in the same situation I think... and there is another Indian like this whose name I cannot remember. These rules were not made to specifically target Caster Semenya alone. They just need to go ahead and create an intersex category for some of these sports to make competition fair for all athletes.
     
  29. winterinatl

    winterinatl All natural!

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    Right. She is not a man masquerading as a woman. She’s a woman with high testosterone. I’d bet the Williams sisters have higher testosterone than average and many basketball players. Until just now that was an invisible athletic advantage. Like Phelps freaky dolphin body.

    However. I’m not sold on altered men (trans women ) athletically competing with women.

    Also, do we ever see trans men (born women) try to compete with men? How does that go?

    ETA: I missed the testes and XY part.
     
  30. ThirdEyeBeauty

    ThirdEyeBeauty Well-Known Member

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    How is she a woman (even intersexed)? If she has XY AND testes AND working testosterone where does the woman part comes. Did this person have an accident at birth and lost the male external parts? Someone help me out. Usually for intersex one of the above XY, testes, or testosterone has to not be there or not work properly. The person even lives as a man (dresses, "acts", romantic interest, forehead :look:) fits a Cis man. Must be a very unusual case even for an intersexed person. Makes no sense to me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019

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