Christian Unity, Cultural Differences and Freedom to Integrate

[Irresistible]

It never was a skin color

it was the enemy of souls at work in them all along

 

[Irresistible]

The true Gospel is LOVE and TRUTH

and would never commit such horrific acts

just because someone says they come in the name of the LORD doesnt mean they really do/did, but the sins of those people are on them alone, not anyone else

 

[Ms.Honey]

That's why I asked the questions and opened it up to dialogue. BTW, to the other poster, I'm not accusing every believer that ever was. If we can all ask this country to stop it's assault on Iraq when most of us have done no harm, then the body of Christ can certainly come to the rescue and correct collective wrongs for a certain community within it. Questioning does not accusation make.

Native Americans owned slaves. Have they made a public apology? Are they trying today to right the wrongs they've inficted upon African Americans for centuries?

What should AA's expect from NA's?

 

[Almaz]

Thank you becuase you have made a lot of sense. GV do not concern youself with people who are itolerant of who you are G-d knows and for the other screw em

I dont know if I am on point with what your asking here

But I wanted to say this, do not concern yourself with the intolerance of others, God himself knows from whence you came and all beliefs instilled in you and what has influenced you, keep seeking him, not the approval OR tolerance of others , nor meshing of the faiths, You just keep YOUR faith and YOUR walk, HE DOES KNOW YOU, and keep seeking him and I gaurantee you will be lead to the truth , all truth, if you seek and ask ,it will be opened to you

also do not be dismayed, by the lack of acceptance of your walk by Christians, many of us, should be reminded, we were once lost and are not so far removed from coming to the LORD ourselves having our own ,or our families having roots in the occult, the LORD knew how to guide us and he can and will do no less for you. NO LESS

do not seek acceptance from flesh but only from God, this is your spiritual journey to know him and know him more and love him more and know more truth and seek it for you, and yours alone

eta dont catch a spirit of offense that then keeps you from seeking the truth or closing yourself off to it altogether

all said in love

I hope I was on point with something LOL

 

[Ms.Honey]

Thank you becuase you have made a lot of sense. GV do not concern youself with people who are itolerant of who you are G-d knows and for the other screw em

Why do you post here almaz? This forum is for Christians and those who want a Christian perspective? I among others welcomed you to the Christian forum when you started your thread. Although I didn't and still do not think your thread was combative as some suggested, I did pick up on your glee at clowning the JW woman because of her lack of knowledge.

You said you had a question, asked and answered. Why do you continue to lurk here? Are you seeking Christian fellowship because that's what this forum was made for? I highly doubt that you want to commune with us so what is it?

 

[divya]

Wow...I've missed quite a bit.

 

[Ramya]

Wow...I've missed quite a bit.

what is that delicious looking thing in your siggy

 

[divya]

Trini!!! I used to live in P.R. Friends from Trini and Venezuela...all over, actually. How I miss it. I get your point. My family is 2-nation but we're basically the same peoples lol. Thanks for your responses.

Nice...Puerto Rico is beautiful. I haven't made to Venezuela yet but need to. It's so close to Trinidad. When you say 2-nation, you mean the First Nations (Native American) and Black American?

 

[divya]

That's actually not the point here. It's about a christian model of living based upon individual/different cultural expressions of that faith that differ from the white/Euro model superimposed. People cannot see the whole picture of the message because their viewpoints are colored by their own types of ethnocentric glasses. There are many things to be learned from various cultures in the world and as christianity was spread through European dominance, the true message has been blurred..or should I say that the fullness of that message is being hindered. One example of this would be care of the earth as a christian mandate. Understanding the Native American respect for Mother Earth and that of Judaism would lend a greater comprehension of the bible in that matter as we are all scrambling now to undo what harm was inflicted on our dying planet by a European mindset of divide and conquer. Read what Twiss had to say in those quotes on the first post...I think he was brilliant.

It's not about getting white people to accept a certain model. At the same time, we are all here together in this world and the community needs to embrace an understanding of different expressions of the faith for deeper comprehension leading to appropriate action. And actually, this is why so many christians are now learning about Judaism, to learn the context of the origins of the faith to gain deeper understanding into what their faith/religion is in the first place. It's not really about pain, it's about truth and acceptance and validity of all cultures as creations by One G-d...equal acceptance and not the status quo acceptance of a white model only. It's about striving for that unity and truth.

I'm not sure if people understand that the European model of christianity held non-white people as soulless beings and it took centuries for wrongs sanctioned by the church to be corrected. Slavery was definitely one of these issues as were the crusades.

I would like to make a few statements here. The Holy Spirit lends comprehension of the Scriptures, of the character and purpose of God. Regardless of what faith one may profess, it is the same Holy Spirit that reveals anything about God Himself. So I cannot agree that understanding the N.A. respect for the earth or Judaism will necessarily or automatically lend greater comprehension of the Bible, when the Bible is God’s Holy Word. What is necessary is a heart that is open and willing to learn whatever the Holy Spirit reveals, regardless of the means the Holy Spirit uses. God is not inhibited by the actions of Europeans or any other group. Ultimately, it is we as humans who inhibit ourselves and each other. God reveals and works with us individually, revealing things in His time as He knows is best for us.

A number of Christians have long known about the Jews and Judaism. On this, I will speak from the branch of my faith. You must understand that from the perspective of some, the experience of the Jews represent an example and an significant part of the bigger picture of God’s plan of salvation. That is the context within which some of us, including myself, understand the Jewish experience and Judaism. However, only simply cannot only look to the experience of the Jews in order to understand our faith and religion. Christianity did not begin or end with the Jews, because God’s plan of salvation began long before. The all-knowing God understood the implications of a fallen angel and those who fell with him and what would ensue. So the plan of salvation was born.

God is the truth and it’s about coming into that truth regardless of culture or language etc. We must be open to all that God reveals so that we, His bride (the church), will be ready for the coming of the Bridegroom. Regardless of the actions of many Europeans of the past and other groups who committed atrocities upon other peoples, God is in control and will have the final word. When we focus on God, we understand that all of our experiences are valid because He believes it so. That is why we all – provided we accept and follow Him - will be represented in the Kingdom.

Hope you understand.

 

[divya]

what is that delicious looking thing in your siggy

Oops, I took it out. It's called doubles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubles_(food)

 

[Almaz]

Hey listen I have just as much right to be here and to learn as much as anybody else. Who are YOU to say such a thing. I don't find glee in this and please refrain from saying such things.

Thank you

Why do you post here almaz? This forum is for Christians and those who want a Christian perspective? I among others welcomed you to the Christian forum when you started your thread. Although I didn't and still do not think your thread was combative as some suggested, I did pick up on your glee at clowning the JW woman because of her lack of knowledge.

You said you had a question, asked and answered. Why do you continue to lurk here? Are you seeking Christian fellowship because that's what this forum was made for? I highly doubt that you want to commune with us so what is it?

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Well. I am still praying on this one.

 

[divya]

I mean I know all your saying happened is true and horrific. but whats the answer? I do understand RELIGION is not of God, but relationship is, I mean is that the point your making? Because if so I TRULY agree, I am sorry if your msg was lost on me, I am sorry if I saw something that wasnt there, I am just lost with this

I do know your heart, thats why I am hurting that things are going like this and coming across like this and being taken like this

I just want it to stop

May I, in love, offer an Scriptural perspective? True religion is of God.

James 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This is one of my favorite scriptures in the Word - just made it my siggy again. The issue is not with pure religion but with us as people and our ways of corrupting or at least corrupting the perception of what is good and upright in the eyes of God.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Hey listen I have just as much right to be here and to learn as much as anybody else. Who are YOU to say such a thing. I don't find glee in this and please refrain from saying such things.

Thank you

Um, actually you don't. This IS the Christian fellowship forum. Are you trying to "learn" something from Christians, to share the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ or is it your goal and the others to "school" the Christians?

I just don't get it. For a group of people who think the Christians "hijack" their religion and worship God incorrectly therefore not at all and who believe Jesus is "just a prophet" y'all sure spend a whole lot of time lurking and hanging out here adding NOTHING of any use and provoking constantly.

 

[Almaz]

I NEVER said anyone Hijacked MY religion. YOU got the wrong person. And Actually I do. I paid to be here like everyone else.

Thank you.



\

Um, actually you don't. This IS the Christian fellowship forum. Are you trying to "learn" something from Christians, to share the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ or is it your goal and the others to "school" the Christians?

I just don't get it. For a group of people who think the Christians "hijack" their religion and worship God incorrectly therefore not at all and who believe Jesus is "just a prophet" y'all sure spend a whole lot of time lurking and hanging out here adding NOTHING of any use and provoking constantly.

 

[Ms.Honey]

I NEVER said anyone Hijacked MY religion. YOU got the wrong person. And Actually I do. I paid to be here like everyone else.

Thank you.



\

No, one of the others said we hijack Judaism but I doubt very seriously you feel we are worshipping God the way He wants us to and have decided to "learn" anything. So again, what's the point? You also need to read the rules for the Christian forum.

It's not my forum so whatever but please don't come in here starting mess like the others like to do. Don't instigate.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

This is an attempt to clear up any misunderstandings about my reasoning to post this in this forum. I think the problem here was that people weren't reading and viewing all the materials and I know it was kind of long. Most of the outrage stemmed from misconstruing info being taken out of *context* that would have appeared an attack if not read or viewed. I'm not sure why people would comment without viewing all the supporting documents. It can't be skimmed that way. You don't have to agree with him, but certainly, do not misconstrue along with accusations of deception, racism, disunity etc. My questions were specific to this particuar issue in our community and I wished to bring it to the attention of people. It was not an attack against christianity. Please, that is an unfounded accusation.

It was to be read along with the short videos. So, again, there was a serious misunderstanding and things have been misquoted, misconstrued and taken out of context from not viewing his speeches where the quotes were taken from. I just ask that, for those who are truly interested, please take the time to view the vids before commenting further. I reiterate yet again, I'm only posting to clear up an issue brought to my attention - misunderstanding from not viewing all the supporting info because it is not racist.

Twiss says over and over again, "we, what we hope for is people seeing us thru the lense of scripture... mutuality...legitimate christ-honoring partnerships, understanding...authentically walk with Jesus in the context of who G-d created him (the believer) to be..." (none of that is anti-christian)

Hope for the American Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHKtDoKoD80
--------------------------------------------------
Here he talks about the lack of personal identity leading to self-esteem problems caused by assimilation. He's hoping for full integration of of believers within the larger body but through mutual understanding based upon a scriptural context - not mainstream cultural...through true christian lenses...not through the superimposition of American culture ...which does not make christianity authenticated. All cultures can fit is what he's saying and they have a right to self-expression as well as needs for that. BTW, it seems evident in the AA church (gospel style, African garb, several other traditions.

The Biggest Problem (for his particular community)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JojNNniUs0&NR=1

BTW, the vids are very short in length.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

No, one of the others said we hijack Judaism but I doubt very seriously you feel we are worshipping God the way He wants us to and have decided to "learn" anything. So again, what's the point? You also need to read the rules for the Christian forum.

It's not my forum so whatever but please don't come in here starting mess like the others like to do. Don't instigate.

No, I said that European Jews have "hijacked" Judaism by their mistreatment of authentic, original ethnic Jews from the Middle East. Don't attribute that to her...it was my comment. I was not talking about christians at all...unless somebody else really said that and in that case, you can scratch my comment because it wouldn't then apply. I was referring to blatant racism and discrimination.


But in my Hebrew class, the majority are Germans, Poles, etc. A guy who is studying to be a cantor who's family is of original Jewish descent, from N. Africa, came in new to the class. Their jaws dropped at the site of this swarthy curly-headed cutie and the German teacher openly mistreated him...right there in front of everybody, class after class after class. It's probably something you are unaware of in that community...much akin to a Sudanese walking into an Episcopalian church and everybody staring, thinking he's certainly in the wrong place (imagine the humorous situation). When he starts singing in his ancient tradition which is the older one...2,000 years old in Africa, people will think it strange when it's the older tradition.

 

[Irresistible]

May I, in love, offer an Scriptural perspective? True religion is of God.

James 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This is one of my favorite scriptures in the Word - just made it my siggy again. The issue is not with pure religion but with us as people and our ways of corrupting or at least corrupting the perception of what is good and upright in the eyes of God.

I agree

pure religion probably does equal relationship anyway right?

I do know that some super religiousness does keep one from true relationship

 

[Irresistible]

This is an attempt to clear up any misunderstandings about my reasoning to post this in this forum. I think the problem here was that people weren't reading and viewing all the materials and I know it was kind of long. Most of the outrage stemmed from misconstruing info being taken out of *context* that would have appeared an attack if not read or viewed. I'm not sure why people would comment without viewing all the supporting documents. It can't be skimmed that way. You don't have to agree with him, but certainly, do not misconstrue along with accusations of deception, racism, disunity etc. My questions were specific to this particuar issue in our community and I wished to bring it to the attention of people. It was not an attack against christianity. Please, that is an unfounded accusation.

It was to be read along with the short videos. So, again, there was a serious misunderstanding and things have been misquoted, misconstrued and taken out of context from not viewing his speeches where the quotes were taken from. I just ask that, for those who are truly interested, please take the time to view the vids before commenting further. I reiterate yet again, I'm only posting to clear up an issue brought to my attention - misunderstanding from not viewing all the supporting info because it is not racist.

Twiss says over and over again, "we, what we hope for is people seeing us thru the lense of scripture... mutuality...legitimate christ-honoring partnerships, understanding...authentically walk with Jesus in the context of who G-d created him (the believer) to be..." (none of that is anti-christian)

Hope for the American Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHKtDoKoD80
--------------------------------------------------
Here he talks about the lack of personal identity leading to self-esteem problems caused by assimilation. He's hoping for full integration of of believers within the larger body but through mutual understanding based upon a scriptural context - not mainstream cultural...through true christian lenses...not through the superimposition of American culture ...which does not make christianity authenticated. All cultures can fit is what he's saying and they have a right to self-expression as well as needs for that. BTW, it seems evident in the AA church (gospel style, African garb, several other traditions.

The Biggest Problem (for his particular community)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JojNNniUs0&NR=1

BTW, the vids are very short in length.

I still dont understand everything in full, but apologize again for anything I misunderstood

If thats not where your heart is/was , as far as what was perceived or mistaken, then I truly do take back all the things I said

 

[divya]

I agree

pure religion probably does equal relationship anyway right?

I do know that some super religiousness does keep one from true relationship

Yes, pure religion definitely does equal relationship. I would say the problem is super legalism. That was the problem with the Pharisees, for example. They were so legalistic that they lacked the loving and giving Christian spirit.

 

[topsyturvy86]

This is an attempt to clear up any misunderstandings about my reasoning to post this in this forum. I think the problem here was that people weren't reading and viewing all the materials and I know it was kind of long. Most of the outrage stemmed from misconstruing info being taken out of *context* that would have appeared an attack if not read or viewed. I'm not sure why people would comment without viewing all the supporting documents. It can't be skimmed that way. You don't have to agree with him, but certainly, do not misconstrue along with accusations of deception, racism, disunity etc. My questions were specific to this particuar issue in our community and I wished to bring it to the attention of people. It was not an attack against christianity. Please, that is an unfounded accusation.

I just managed to get through this thread ... wow! GV, I don't think there's a misunderstanding at all, I think people are understanding you just fine and I completely understand and agree with what they're saying. IF infact there is a misunderstanding, do you blame them? You've made it quite clear where you stand on this with posts like

LOL. It's really clear but I'm not coming from your perspective, most likely. I see Jesus as a Jew. I find Judaism, aside from being part of my family heritage down the line, closely linked with Native American traditions. It's an earthy religion, balanced, intellectual, mystical whatnot.

Christians were a Jewish sect, a MIddle-easter/African religion...they soon were flooded by gentiles. It has a gentile feel now, particularly, a gentile face. It is somewhat antisemitic. But it's from Jewish tradition....became a hijacked religion by Europeans who say they practice Jesus' ways, but don't. They have given it a white coated paint job in order to kill and destroy for their benefit only. They are disrespectful and prejudiced and hateful, yet they preach the gospel. White christianity has done a lot of evil while preaching that so-called gospel (genocide, slavery etc., segregation, discrimination). I suspect those weren't christians, not really.

If I look at Ethiopian christianity, then I see those Jewish traditions. They don't have an unblemished history either, but they were more "humane" than their recently arrived European brethern (christianity is 2,000 years old, in Africa). In other words, the negativism I look down upon is mainly from those who have white-washed the religion.

There was also the thread on feeling funny in a majority white Church or something like that. You did say recently as well in the random thoughts thread in OT forum that if you knew this site was ubber Christian you wouldn't have joined (I can remember thinking huh? why is she always in the Christianity forum then?)

I don't think it's about past committed errors because we've all got them. Many of us are still in error. I think the point is that there is an attitude of righteous indignation at the mere thought that someone would question the belief system. There is a definite aura of holier-than-thou and frankly, when I first came here, I had absolutely no idea this was an uber xtian site. I probably wouldn't have joined because I'm very leery of such. Well, just look around...evident. You can't force people to believe in your religion. You can't force people to live or think as you do. They mostly react negatively to unfair judgemental attitudes.

And then this thread. IF there is a misunderstanding, can you see why? Also, if you wouldn't have joined if you knew this site was 'ubber Christian' as you put it, why are you always in the CHRISTIANITY forum?

 

[HeChangedMyName]

nevermind:

 

[Crown]

No, one of the others said we hijack Judaism but I doubt very seriously you feel we are worshipping God the way He wants us to and have decided to "learn" anything. So again, what's the point? You also need to read the rules for the Christian forum.

It's not my forum so whatever but please don't come in here starting mess like the others like to do. Don't instigate.

John 6 : 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day
May GOD bless her in the Name of JESUS CHRIST, The True Way!

 

[HeChangedMyName]

I just feel like the big picture is being overlooked. God created us all of us for HIS purpose, not for our own purpose. He knows the end even in the beginning. He chose who he chose but he gave us all free will and it's up to us individually to chose him.

Our Walk with Christ should be more in context of our personal relationship with him and that will be the common factor that draws us to other people who believe in him. We can't dwell in the past hurts that we have experienced either invidually or as groups of people. Everyone has been disenfranchised in some way or another both in the name of religion and for other reasons. . . .But God. Oh, but when God is in your heart with all that love, you have the power to not only forgive those who have hurt you, but to also forgive them, move on from the hurt and welcome them into your circle of love so that they will experience God himself on earth through you.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I just feel like the big picture is being overlooked. God created us all of us for HIS purpose, not for our own purpose. He knows the end even in the beginning. He chose who he chose but he gave us all free will and it's up to us individually to chose him.

Our Walk with Christ should be more in context of our personal relationship with him and that will be the common factor that draws us to other people who believe in him. We can't dwell in the past hurts that we have experienced either invidually or as groups of people. Everyone has been disenfranchised in some way or another both in the name of religion and for other reasons. . . .But God. Oh, but when God is in your heart with all that love, you have the power to not only forgive those who have hurt you, but to also forgive them, move on from the hurt and welcome them into your circle of love so that they will experience God himself on earth through you.

Good post, sis.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I just managed to get through this thread ... wow! GV, I don't think there's a misunderstanding at all, I think people are understanding you just fine and I completely understand and agree with what they're saying. IF infact there is a misunderstanding, do you blame them? You've made it quite clear where you stand on this with posts like



There was also the thread on feeling funny in a majority white Church or something like that. You did say recently as well in the random thoughts thread in OT forum that if you knew this site was ubber Christian you wouldn't have joined (I can remember thinking huh? why is she always in the Christianity forum then?)




And then this thread. IF there is a misunderstanding, can you see why? Also, if you wouldn't have joined if you knew this site was 'ubber Christian' as you put it, why are you always in the CHRISTIANITY forum?

One can NEVER erase history. Again, if you viewed the vids, then you'd know what was contained within them. Please do not expect every person to have and speak your own particular language regarding belief.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I just feel like the big picture is being overlooked. God created us all of us for HIS purpose, not for our own purpose. He knows the end even in the beginning. He chose who he chose but he gave us all free will and it's up to us individually to chose him.

Our Walk with Christ should be more in context of our personal relationship with him and that will be the common factor that draws us to other people who believe in him. We can't dwell in the past hurts that we have experienced either invidually or as groups of people. Everyone has been disenfranchised in some way or another both in the name of religion and for other reasons. . . .But God. Oh, but when God is in your heart with all that love, you have the power to not only forgive those who have hurt you, but to also forgive them, move on from the hurt and welcome them into your circle of love so that they will experience God himself on earth through you.

And that's exactly what Twiss is saying. I think people have to realize they are largely Euro-centered in culture. This is a problem for many christian communities worldwide but you won't know what it means unless you view the material. We can go on and on in circles...but unless people actually look at that info fully, they simply cannot make an educated opinion on it. I don't need to further explain . Consider the thread closed, please.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I still dont understand everything in full, but apologize again for anything I misunderstood

If thats not where your heart is/was , as far as what was perceived or mistaken, then I truly do take back all the things I said

It's probably because people don't know their full American history. They have been given a lovely picketed fenced photo of it. They often don't know church history and all the struggles it's gone through, both theologically, politically and socially. But that's okay. I know where you're coming from and I truly appreciate that you apologized. It means a lot to me, Iris.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

:endworld: The truth really will set you free. As for me, I'm going to go grow some corn.



THREAD CLOSED