"Christians" scare me

[Finewine]

First, let me state that I am a Christian ( in the sense that I believe in the trinity and that Jesus died for my salvation), but whenever I see an event conducted by Christians, or related to Christianity, I steer clear of it. For example, there is a Christian Medical Ministry group at my school, and I have always wanted to attend, but my first thought is "are they going to plot to blow up abortion buildings or something?" I know it's extreme, and I'm kind of ashamed to say it, but I'm just being honest. This is true in regards to this forum as well; this is my first post in here, and pretty much my first visit. I came because I saw a thread that someonw posted about whether or not to go to the OT and ENT forum. The Christian in me feels that this is obviously the best choice if one wants to stay on the Christian path, so I decided that maybe I should come to my Christian sisters and seek a little help/understanding.

The main reason that I feel this way about Christian gatherings is that I feel that a lot of Christians condemn/judge others when really that's up to God. As for me, I am a virgin, but I do not condemn fornicators, I am against abortion for myself, but I am pro-choice in general, and I am heterosexual, but I do not condemn homosexuals. I constantly seek to strengthen my relationship with the Lord and follow in the footsteps of Jesus, but I honestly hold the belief that the loving others (which includes respecting their opinions even if I disagree with them) supercedes everything else.

I think I'm kind of ranting here, but I just wanted to know if you all walk and talk in the Christian spirit, and if so, what exactly does that mean to you?

 

[kbragg]

Well I think that assume a Medical Ministry would be plotting to blow up abortion clinics is IMO just as bad as someone saying all Muslims are terrorists.

As far as Christians "judging," it's not that we judge or condemn anyone, it's that God has already judged and ondemned it as sin and just as Jesus did, it is our job to proclaim the Word of God, even if it's not all the fluffy "Jesus Loves Me Happy Joy Joy" versus. I find your perspective on love interesting. I believe that if you truly love some one, the biggest disservice you can do is to keep the Truth from them. Millions of people will die and go to hell in 2008 because Christians didn't have the courage to tell them the truth. It doesn't have to be in a mean, hateful way, but we at least owe it to the lost to do as JESUS commanded and fulfill the Great Commission.

Your worst enermy is someone who knows the truth but won't tell it to you. Let me ask you, if your best friend was doing drugs, or cutting, or doing something to themselves that could literally kill them, would you just sit back quietly and let them kill themselves, or would you love them enough, to exhort them to stop? Sin has the power to not only destroy the flesh, but the soul as well, for eternity, so why as Christians is it looked upon as unloving to do that for someone. I thank God that someone had the courage to tell me that sin was sin and the fact that I said a little prayer when I was 12, cried in church a couple times, and got water Baptised did not guarantee me a ticket to heaven, unlike what the modern day teaches. I was still IN sin. I continued in it because sin is made so light of because people are afraid of "offending" people and "losing members" but this false watered down Gospel is sending MILLIONS of people to hell each year. Church going people at that.

The Bible tells us to examine ourselves to see if we're in the faith. Does the fruit of our life reflect true repentence? Or do we still live like the world everyday and "play church" on Sunday? I really wish Christians would truly love the souls of men and not just worry about being "liked."

I got so convicted yesterday. I went to a mid week service and the message was on being an Ambassador For Christ, and I know I have been falling short of that. The Lord brought to mind my young cousin. He just got married and has a new baby. He called me 2 times before he was shipped off to Iraq. He's "churched" but he's not saved. Here God had given me opportunities to share the true Gospel with my cousin and I did not take them. Now he's in Iraq. If he dies over there, wow, how that will weigh on my spirit that I had the chance to share the Lord with him, and didn't take it.

He doesn't need the "Jesus loves me" message, he needed to be called to repentance to be saved. That's one issue I take with modern day Sunday school. The focus is Jesus loves you, you are a child of God etc. They have no concept of sin, repentance, self sacrifice, dying to self, and being a true follower of Christ, and as a result these kids grow up thinking they're Christians and they're not. They think they're saved and they're not. And the church and their parents don't love them enough to tell them the truth!

To me, loving someone is telling them the truth, even if it, hurts, even if they don't like it. Because God's Word will not return to Him void and surely they will THANK you for loving them enough to tell them the truth. I'm not taking about acting all crazy sreaming repent! I'm talking, just as you would do an intervention for a friend who was doing drugs, or being beaten, we need to intervine for the lost.

Sorry, so long, but this is what was on my heart when I read your post.

 

[cheetarah1980]

Well I think that assume a Medical Ministry would be plotting to blow up abortion clinics is IMO just as bad as someone saying all Muslims are terrorists.

As far as Christians "judging," it's not that we judge or condemn anyone, it's that God has already judged and ondemned it as sin and just as Jesus did, it is our job to proclaim the Word of God, even if it's not all the fluffy "Jesus Loves Me Happy Joy Joy" versus. I find your perspective on love interesting. I believe that if you truly love some one, the biggest disservice you can do is to keep the Truth from them. Millions of people will die and go to hell in 2008 because Christians didn't have the courage to tell them the truth. It doesn't have to be in a mean, hateful way, but we at least owe it to the lost to do as JESUS commanded and fulfill the Great Commission.

Your worst enermy is someone who knows the truth but won't tell it to you. Let me ask you, if your best friend was doing drugs, or cutting, or doing something to themselves that could literally kill them, would you just sit back quietly and let them kill themselves, or would you love them enough, to exhort them to stop? Sin has the power to not only destroy the flesh, but the soul as well, for eternity, so why as Christians is it looked upon as unloving to do that for someone. I thank God that someone had the courage to tell me that sin was sin and the fact that I said a little prayer when I was 12, cried in church a couple times, and got water Baptised did not guarantee me a ticket to heaven, unlike what the modern day teaches. I was still IN sin. I continued in it because sin is made so light of because people are afraid of "offending" people and "losing members" but this false watered down Gospel is sending MILLIONS of people to hell each year. Church going people at that.

The Bible tells us to examine ourselves to see if we're in the faith. Does the fruit of our life reflect true repentence? Or do we still live like the world everyday and "play church" on Sunday? I really wish Christians would truly love the souls of men and not just worry about being "liked."

I got so convicted yesterday. I went to a mid week service and the message was on being an Ambassador For Christ, and I know I have been falling short of that. The Lord brought to mind my young cousin. He just got married and has a new baby. He called me 2 times before he was shipped off to Iraq. He's "churched" but he's not saved. Here God had given me opportunities to share the true Gospel with my cousin and I did not take them. Now he's in Iraq. If he dies over there, wow, how that will weigh on my spirit that I had the chance to share the Lord with him, and didn't take it.

He doesn't need the "Jesus loves me" message, he needed to be called to repentance to be saved. That's one issue I take with modern day Sunday school. The focus is Jesus loves you, you are a child of God etc. They have no concept of sin, repentance, self sacrifice, dying to self, and being a true follower of Christ, and as a result these kids grow up thinking they're Christians and they're not. They think they're saved and they're not. And the church and their parents don't love them enough to tell them the truth!

To me, loving someone is telling them the truth, even if it, hurts, even if they don't like it. Because God's Word will not return to Him void and surely they will THANK you for loving them enough to tell them the truth. I'm not taking about acting all crazy sreaming repent! I'm talking, just as you would do an intervention for a friend who was doing drugs, or being beaten, we need to intervine for the lost.

Sorry, so long, but this is what was on my heart when I read your post.

I do agree with you that keeping the truth of God's Word to ourselves is selfish. However, I just don't remember Christ spreading his truth the way many Christians do today. When he passed by Matthew, who was a tax collector (the most vile type of Jew in Jesus' day), he didn't say, "You're going to hell. You need to repent. Stop being a tax collector so you can hang with me." No, not at all. He just said, "come follow me." And Matthew dropped what he was doing and followed. I find that in trying to preach God's word, we try to show love by condemning and judging first. Honestly, people aren't going to even hear you if they feel attacked or judged. The fact that you're right doesn't matter. A book I recently read, "The Celebration of Discipline," said that true submission is giving up the right to be right. As Christians, we're often so pressed to make sure everyone knows that we have the truth and we're gonna share it whether they like it or not that we don't submit to those we're trying to minister to. Jesus himself submitted to his followers when he washed their feet at the Pashach meal. He even washed Judas' feet knowing full well that man would betray him. How many times have we as Christians truly behaved like Christ when following the Great Commission? Maybe if we showed Christ's love to them by meeting people's practical needs without even mentioning God, sin, Christ, repentence, etc. they might just ask us themselves.

 

[Nefertiti0906]

I do agree with you that keeping the truth of God's Word to ourselves is selfish. However, I just don't remember Christ spreading his truth the way many Christians do today. When he passed by Matthew, who was a tax collector (the most vile type of Jew in Jesus' day), he didn't say, "You're going to hell. You need to repent. Stop being a tax collector so you can hang with me." No, not at all. He just said, "come follow me." And Matthew dropped what he was doing and followed. I find that in trying to preach God's word, we try to show love by condemning and judging first. Honestly, people aren't going to even hear you if they feel attacked or judged. The fact that you're right doesn't matter. A book I recently read, "The Celebration of Discipline," said that true submission is giving up the right to be right. As Christians, we're often so pressed to make sure everyone knows that we have the truth and we're gonna share it whether they like it or not that we don't submit to those we're trying to minister to. Jesus himself submitted to his followers when he washed their feet at the Pashach meal. He even washed Judas' feet knowing full well that man would betray him. How many times have we as Christians truly behaved like Christ when following the Great Commission? Maybe if we showed Christ's love to them by meeting people's practical needs without even mentioning God, sin, Christ, repentence, etc. they might just ask us themselves.

Good Post. I feel that we have A LOT to learn from Jesus' ministry

 

[kbragg]

I do agree with you that keeping the truth of God's Word to ourselves is selfish. However, I just don't remember Christ spreading his truth the way many Christians do today. When he passed by Matthew, who was a tax collector (the most vile type of Jew in Jesus' day), he didn't say, "You're going to hell. You need to repent. Stop being a tax collector so you can hang with me." No, not at all. He just said, "come follow me." And Matthew dropped what he was doing and followed. I find that in trying to preach God's word, we try to show love by condemning and judging first. Honestly, people aren't going to even hear you if they feel attacked or judged. The fact that you're right doesn't matter. A book I recently read, "The Celebration of Discipline," said that true submission is giving up the right to be right. As Christians, we're often so pressed to make sure everyone knows that we have the truth and we're gonna share it whether they like it or not that we don't submit to those we're trying to minister to. Jesus himself submitted to his followers when he washed their feet at the Pashach meal. He even washed Judas' feet knowing full well that man would betray him. How many times have we as Christians truly behaved like Christ when following the Great Commission? Maybe if we showed Christ's love to them by meeting people's practical needs without even mentioning God, sin, Christ, repentence, etc. they might just ask us themselves.

First of all, I mentioned over and over and over in my post, I'm not talking about going buck wild on someone scream repent sinner!But the example you used is just one of many. When the rich young ruler came to Jesus and said "What must I do to get enternal life." Notice Jesus didn't just say "Follow me." in that instance. He showed the man his heart, his sin. And the man chose not to follow him. Jesus had/has the ability to perceive the hearts of men, something we do not have. Jesus offered grace to the humble and the Law to the proud to convict them and lead them to repentence. Jesus instructed Nicodemas that he must be born again. Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more. The Jews at that time wre taught the law. They KNEW what sin was. Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery go and sin no more. She was already humble, she already knew she had sinned, her heart was prepared for the message of grace. Not so with many people today.

Unfortunately the watered down "gospel" message the church is feeding people today is to take sin lightly. There's no call the repentence. Not only that, not all the disciples were "saved". Jesus said to Peter, that satan desired to sift him as wheat....and WHEN thou art converted....notice Peter, was so sure he was sold out to Christ, yet he denied Him 3 times. THEN he was converted. THEN he saw himself for who he really was and could throw himself onthe mercies of Christ.

In the church today, there's no humility. People don't think they're really all that bad, and it's no wonder! Look at their examples. Pastors flirting with the other sisters in church, "mother's" of the church outside smoking in the parking lot and playing the lotto. "Christian Parents" watching Oprah, and Maury, but never cracking open the Bible. So of ccourse with that example, people think "oh I'm no different than anyone else". This is the issue. There is no DIFFERENCE between the world and the Christian. This should not be.

It is only by getting back to the Truth, seeing the severity of sin, that true repentance can come, thus being born again. God cannot be even in the presence of sin, yet we see it as "not that bad....not like I killed anyone." Or "It was just a stapler from my office, they have plenty, not like I robbed a bank."

The Truth of the matter is Jesus Christ, God manifested in the flesh, suffered and died on the cross to pay for our crimes. He took upon ourselves the punishment that was meant for us, so that we can be reconcilled with God and now in turn we can be reconcillers! If people don't have a true concept of what sin really is, then the Cross is foolishness, nothing more than another story. But when we can honestly examine ourselves and see we ARE sinners, THEN and only then can we see WHY we need a savior. Then true rebirth happens. Then a true change of heart occurs. Then it's not a matter of "Christians can't have fun" but now it's "How could I do something like this to my Lord who took upon His blameless self the punishment for my crime? How can I crucify Him afresh?"

Anyway, I know it's not a popular message, and people would rather hear the fluffy stuff that makes them feel good, but it's a much needed message.

If you ladies haven't checked out this site yet you should: www.wayofthemaster.com

 

[kbragg]

Good Post. I feel that we have A LOT to learn from Jesus' ministry

I do too, but we also need to look at the WHOLE New Testament and not just pick and choose from the Gospels. Jesus's job was not to convert sinners because he had not yet completed the process for reconcilliation. We need to look to what Jesus sais and the diciples did AFTER the Resurrection. Jesus came to earth to defeat death, hell, and the grave. To destroy the power of sin and create a path of reconcilliation to the Father. This was His mission. ALL of the Bible is God's Word, not just the red letter part. Jesus is the Word made flesh. All of it.

 

[Shimmie]

I'm coming back to this thread...I'm in the middle something right now and have to finish it.

But let me say this...

Once again, the enemy is trying to put Christianity on the 'chopping block'. I mean Come ON! Since when do REAL Christians blow up abortion clinics/buildings. Just because someone goes around labeling or calling themselves a Christian doesn't mean that they are a Christian.

What is it that just because we do not advocate abortion, that makes us a terriorist? Or because we do not advocate the 'ACT' of homosexuality, that makes us homophobic or judgemental and/or intolerant.

The irony is that 'other' persons/cultures/groups can have THEIR beliefs and are PUSHING them upon us and our children and expect us not to object to it.

Christians do not blow up buildings. Christians do not harm other lives. Christians are not terriorists.

Jesus made it plain, "You will know them by their fruit." "Them" being fruitful of Jesus meaning Chrisitians. Not imposters.

finewine83 realize that satan's biggest target and objective is to discredit God and all that He stands for. If you have 'fear' than that is NOT of God. For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but the spirit of power, love and of a Sound Mind. As as a Christian, you have no business being fearful, knowing God is on your side. You have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into ALL Truth and He and only He will give you the gift of discerning what's right, what's wrong, what's true in HIM.

I'm sick of the devil and his mess. I've just about had it with this foolishness that 'we' as Christians are the enemy and the bad guys. That we as Chrisitians are forcing our beliefs upon others. That's a bunch of foolishness in comparison to what the world system is consistantly forcing upon us each and every moment of the day.

Look at the mess in the Media. Are there any descent movies or family television shows. Listen to the music industry. The music videos. And our schools are being infiltrated with just as much foolishness. Homosexuality is literally being shoved down our throats where we now 'have' to accept it as a normal lifestyle???? Yet we can't live our own. We're told not to pray in schools, not even privately.

Since when is the love of God something for a Christian to be fearful of? The devil is a liar and I can see straight through his attempts to bring yet another negative attack against Christianity.

I come against this mess in Jesus's Name. And I am not playing games. All satan wants is for someone else to justify another lie that Christianity has no merit or sacredness.

Bottomline, Christianity has nothing to be fearful of and it never will.

 

[cheetarah1980]

First of all, I mentioned over and over and over in my post, I'm not talking about going buck wild on someone scream repent sinner!But the example you used is just one of many. When the rich young ruler came to Jesus and said "What must I do to get enternal life." Notice Jesus didn't just say "Follow me." in that instance. He showed the man his heart, his sin. And the man chose not to follow him. Jesus had/has the ability to perceive the hearts of men, something we do not have. Jesus offered grace to the humble and the Law to the proud to convict them and lead them to repentence. Jesus instructed Nicodemas that he must be born again. Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more. The Jews at that time wre taught the law. They KNEW what sin was. Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery go and sin no more. She was already humble, she already knew she had sinned, her heart was prepared for the message of grace. Not so with many people today.

Unfortunately the watered down "gospel" message the church is feeding people today is to take sin lightly. There's no call the repentence. Not only that, not all the disciples were "saved". Jesus said to Peter, that satan desired to sift him as wheat....and WHEN thou art converted....notice Peter, was so sure he was sold out to Christ, yet he denied Him 3 times. THEN he was converted. THEN he saw himself for who he really was and could throw himself onthe mercies of Christ.

In the church today, there's no humility. People don't think they're really all that bad, and it's no wonder! Look at their examples. Pastors flirting with the other sisters in church, "mother's" of the church outside smoking in the parking lot and playing the lotto. "Christian Parents" watching Oprah, and Maury, but never cracking open the Bible. So of ccourse with that example, people think "oh I'm no different than anyone else". This is the issue. There is no DIFFERENCE between the world and the Christian. This should not be.

It is only by getting back to the Truth, seeing the severity of sin, that true repentance can come, thus being born again. God cannot be even in the presence of sin, yet we see it as "not that bad....not like I killed anyone." Or "It was just a stapler from my office, they have plenty, not like I robbed a bank."

The Truth of the matter is Jesus Christ, God manifested in the flesh, suffered and died on the cross to pay for our crimes. He took upon ourselves the punishment that was meant for us, so that we can be reconcilled with God and now in turn we can be reconcillers! If people don't have a true concept of what sin really is, then the Cross is foolishness, nothing more than another story. But when we can honestly examine ourselves and see we ARE sinners, THEN and only then can we see WHY we need a savior. Then true rebirth happens. Then a true change of heart occurs. Then it's not a matter of "Christians can't have fun" but now it's "How could I do something like this to my Lord who took upon His blameless self the punishment for my crime? How can I crucify Him afresh?"

Anyway, I know it's not a popular message, and people would rather hear the fluffy stuff that makes them feel good, but it's a much needed message.

If you ladies haven't checked out this site yet you should: www.wayofthemaster.com

Girl, don't even get me started on the watered down gospel that passes for Christianity nowadays. Ugghhh. Sin and the need for repentence is swept under the rug and needs to be brought to the forefront of our message again. But notice that before Jesus pointed out the condition of the young ruler's heart, the man first asked, "what must I do to have eternal life?" Often times we point out the condition of someone's heart/life without even being asked. I think that's why many people, even Christ followers themselves, find born again/spirit filled/evangelical Christians to be scary.
It's like this...as Christians we often don't love people just to love them. We love them with the hope of saving them, when that's really not our job. Yes we are to proclaim the gospel, but the conversion is all God's doing. I will be so bold as to say many Christians love with ulterior motives (whether that motive be good or bad is irrelevant). I know from personal experience that I've been more receptive to reproof, correction, and exhortations from people I already had true fellowship/relationship/community with than from people who were just out to prove that they're right and I'm wrong and I need to repent.

 

[kbragg]

Girl, don't even get me started on the watered down gospel that passes for Christianity nowadays. Ugghhh. Sin and the need for repentence is swept under the rug and needs to be brought to the forefront of our message again. But notice that before Jesus pointed out the condition of the young ruler's heart, the man first asked, "what must I do to have eternal life?" Often times we point out the condition of someone's heart/life without even being asked. I think that's why many people, even Christ followers themselves, find born again/spirit filled/evangelical Christians to be scary.
It's like this...as Christians we often don't love people just to love them. We love them with the hope of saving them, when that's really not our job. Yes we are to proclaim the gospel, but the conversion is all God's doing. I will be so bold as to say many Christians love with ulterior motives (whether that motive be good or bad is irrelevant). I know from personal experience that I've been more receptive to reproof, correction, and exhortations from people I already had true fellowship/relationship/community with than from people who were just out to prove that they're right and I'm wrong and I need to repent.

Ok, I think this is where we're getting crossed up. I think I may be personalizing what your saying about the APPROACH many take and not the technique itself. I believe this is where discernment comes in. I believe you can be a missionary in your own zip code. I believe this is WHY God places us in the jobs, the neighborhoods, the areas we are in. So we can reach those within our center of influence. It's not all door knocking and open air preaching, though that is very effective and has it's place for those CALLED to it, however we care share our faith in a way that is still loving. That's why I used the example of a friend. A stranger on the street would not have the same opportunity as a friend would (though God will use whom He willeth.) It's our job to plant the seed of faith, and God's the give the increase.

@ The bolded, I don't seeing proving someone wrong as loving, because that is based in pride, not love. As far as "waiting" for them to ask us first, I doubt that will happen today. We've been Christians for a long time now..has anyone ever just walked up to you and said "Hey girl, how can I get the hook up on that eternal life thang?" You better say no or Ima call you a liar!With Jesus, it was known he was the Messiah, the culture is very different now. While I would never walk up to a homosexual and say "You're going to hell," if I had a close friend or relative, I would share with them from God's Word (never my own words or opinions) what it says about their lifestyle. I've heard testimonies of former homosexuals whose friends had the courage to do that, and now they're on the pathway to righteousness, lives transformed, delivered from bondage. There's nothing more precious that we as believers can share with sinners than our faith.

 

[kbragg]

I'm coming back to this thread...I'm in the middle something right now and have to finish it.

But let me say this...

Once again, the enemy is trying to put Christianity on the 'chopping block'. I mean Come ON! Since when do REAL Christians blow up abortion clinics/buildings. Just because someone goes around labeling or calling themselves a Christian doesn't mean that they are a Christian.

What is it that just because we do not advocate abortion, that makes us a terriorist? Or because we do not advocate the 'ACT' of homosexuality, that makes us homophobic or judgemental and/or intolerant.

The irony is that 'other' persons/cultures/groups can have THEIR beliefs and are PUSHING them upon us and our children and expect us not to object to it.

Christians do not blow up buildings. Christians do not harm other lives. Christians are not terriorists.

Jesus made it plain, "You will know them by their fruit." "Them" being fruitful of Jesus meaning Chrisitians. Not imposters.

finewine83 realize that satan's biggest target and objective is to discredit God and all that He stands for. If you have 'fear' than that is NOT of God. For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but the spirit of power, love and of a Sound Mind. As as a Christian, you have no business being fearful, knowing God is on your side. You have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into ALL Truth and He and only He will give you the gift of discerning what's right, what's wrong, what's true in HIM.

I'm sick of the devil and his mess. I've just about had it with this foolishness that 'we' as Christians are the enemy and the bad guys. That we as Chrisitians are forcing our beliefs upon others. That's a bunch of foolishness in comparison to what the world system is consistantly forcing upon us each and every moment of the day.

Look at the mess in the Media. Are there any descent movies or family television shows. Listen to the music industry. The music videos. And our schools are being infiltrated with just as much foolishness. Homosexuality is literally being shoved down our throats where we now 'have' to accept it as a normal lifestyle???? Yet we can't live our own. We're told not to pray in schools, not even privately.

Since when is the love of God something for a Christian to be fearful of? The devil is a liar and I can see straight through his attempts to bring yet another negative attack against Christianity.

I come against this mess in Jesus's Name. And I am not playing games. All satan wants is for someone else to justify another lie that Christianity has no merit or sacredness.

Bottomline, Christianity has nothing to be fearful of and it never will.

Preach it Prophetess Shimmie

 

[cheetarah1980]

Ok, I think this is where we're getting crossed up. I think I may be personalizing what your saying about the APPROACH many take and not the technique itself. I believe this is where discernment comes in. I believe you can be a missionary in your own zip code. I believe this is WHY God places us in the jobs, the neighborhoods, the areas we are in. So we can reach those within our center of influence. It's not all door knocking and open air preaching, though that is very effective and has it's place for those CALLED to it, however we care share our faith in a way that is still loving. That's why I used the example of a friend. A stranger on the street would not have the same opportunity as a friend would (though God will use whom He willeth.) It's our job to plant the seed of faith, and God's the give the increase.

@ The bolded, I don't seeing proving someone wrong as loving, because that is based in pride, not love. As far as "waiting" for them to ask us first, I doubt that will happen today. We've been Christians for a long time now..has anyone ever just walked up to you and said "Hey girl, how can I get the hook up on that eternal life thang?" You better say no or Ima call you a liar!With Jesus, it was known he was the Messiah, the culture is very different now. While I would never walk up to a homosexual and say "You're going to hell," if I had a close friend or relative, I would share with them from God's Word (never my own words or opinions) what it says about their lifestyle. I've heard testimonies of former homosexuals whose friends had the courage to do that, and now they're on the pathway to righteousness, lives transformed, delivered from bondage. There's nothing more precious that we as believers can share with sinners than our faith.

Whatchu mean you would call me a liar?Nah you're right, no one walks up to me and says those words. But I have had a friend or two ask me questions about my faith and why I do the things that I do and believe what I believe. I use those opportunities to witness because the door is open. While I'm not always that great at it, I try to make my life my biggest testimony. People get curious and want to know more and I share with them. It may not convert them on the spot, but I know I've planted a seed that could possibly germinate 5 days to 5 years from now.

I actually now remember one girl who used to read my blog on a regular basis and one of my posts was about my thoughts on God. We talked frequently over e-mail and IM and she brought up how she didn't like that Christians called everyone a sinner. She went on about how she always tried to treat people fairly, didn't steal, murder, rape, pillage (you know the list). I used the opportunity to bring to her attention the often overlooked sins like materialism, lying (even the little white ones), gossiping, being manipulative etc. I showed her that no matter what we as humans are ALL sinners cause none of us reach God's righteousness so that's why we all need forgiveness and repentence. Did she fall on her knees and accept Christ as her savior and turn away from her sin that instant? Not so much...but I know that I gave her a word that has the potential to grow in time.

That's what I mean when I say waiting to be asked. If someone is asking, it means they definitely want to hear what you have to say...they may not like it. But at the very least they want to hear it. When someone doesn't want to hear it, it's like the seeds that were thrown on the rocks...they just get washed away with the rain cause there's NO fertile ground for it to take root in.

 

[Shimmie]

Preach it Prophetess Shimmie

I guess I'm a little sensitive with this issue...

OT: I just noticed, congratulations on your new baby...Awwwww, baby # 3. I can't wait until he/she is here. I thank God for your fruitful vine and that the fruit of your womb is eternally blessed. No weapon formed against you shall prosper and your delivery will be swift and with ease and with a quick recovery. In Jesus's name, Amen and Amen.

God bless you and your beautiful husband and family, Lady K. I mean this with all of my heart. :heart2:

 

[gone_fishing]

Cosign all that Shimmie said.

It seems to me that people take that "do not judge" and run haywire with it. I don't think people really understand what that means so let me post something to explain.

It seems that whenever one person confronts another person over an issue, the statement "Do not judge!" comes up. Christians are often accused of "judging" in contradiction to what the Bible says whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses which state, "Do not judge." When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for their sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is their Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with their sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word ; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences - the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

I don't believe Jesus condones "extreme" behavior such as bombing abortion clinics, etc. He allows us free well even if that will takes us to hell. However, righteous indignation and anger at some sin on the part of a christian is not sinful in my opinion.

God is angry (Psalm 7:11; Mark 3:5), and believers are commanded to be angry (Ephesians 4:26). Two Greek words are used in the New Testament for our English word “anger.” One (orge) means “passion, energy;” the other (thumos) means “agitated, boiling.” Webster defines anger as “excessive emotion, passion aroused by a sense of injury or wrong;” this injury may be to us or to someone else. Biblically, anger is God-given energy intended to help us solve problems. Examples of biblical uses of anger include Paul confronting Peter because of his wrong example in Galatians 2:11-14, David being upset over hearing Nathan the prophet sharing an injustice (2 Samuel 12), and Jesus getting angry over how some of the Jews had defiled the Gentiles’ place of worship at God’s temple in Jerusalem (John 2:13-18). I remember years back a former pastor of mine getting upset and speaking to a civic group that was teaching youngsters to play poker (gamble) in the hall of a mall.

But anger turns to sin when it is selfishly motivated (James 1:20), when God’s goal is distorted (1 Corinthians 10:31), or when anger is allowed to linger (Ephesians 4:26-27).

I've known Jesus to turn over a table a time or two but he's never killed anyone over their choices so no, I don't condone that. But, I feel as if I'm not doing my personal duty if I do not try to gentley restore someone who is caught in error. I'd want someone to do the same for me!

 

[Nefertiti0906]

I do too, but we also need to look at the WHOLE New Testament and not just pick and choose from the Gospels. Jesus's job was not to convert sinners because he had not yet completed the process for reconcilliation. We need to look to what Jesus sais and the diciples did AFTER the Resurrection. Jesus came to earth to defeat death, hell, and the grave. To destroy the power of sin and create a path of reconcilliation to the Father. This was His mission. ALL of the Bible is God's Word, not just the red letter part. Jesus is the Word made flesh. All of it.

I think you misunderstood my statement. I didn't say that we don't have to look at the other parts of the bible, which is one book (both old and new testament).

 

[Shimmie]

Cosign all that Shimmie said.

It seems to me that people take that "do not judge" and run haywire with it. I don't think people really understand what that means so let me post something to explain.

It seems that whenever one person confronts another person over an issue, the statement "Do not judge!" comes up. Christians are often accused of "judging" in contradiction to what the Bible says whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses which state, "Do not judge." When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for their sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is their Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with their sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word ; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences - the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

I don't believe Jesus condones "extreme" behavior such as bombing abortion clinics, etc. He allows us free well even if that will takes us to hell. However, righteous indignation and anger at some sin on the part of a christian is not sinful in my opinion.

God is angry (Psalm 7:11; Mark 3:5), and believers are commanded to be angry (Ephesians 4:26). Two Greek words are used in the New Testament for our English word “anger.” One (orge) means “passion, energy;” the other (thumos) means “agitated, boiling.” Webster defines anger as “excessive emotion, passion aroused by a sense of injury or wrong;” this injury may be to us or to someone else. Biblically, anger is God-given energy intended to help us solve problems. Examples of biblical uses of anger include Paul confronting Peter because of his wrong example in Galatians 2:11-14, David being upset over hearing Nathan the prophet sharing an injustice (2 Samuel 12), and Jesus getting angry over how some of the Jews had defiled the Gentiles’ place of worship at God’s temple in Jerusalem (John 2:13-18). I remember years back a former pastor of mine getting upset and speaking to a civic group that was teaching youngsters to play poker (gamble) in the hall of a mall.

But anger turns to sin when it is selfishly motivated (James 1:20), when God’s goal is distorted (1 Corinthians 10:31), or when anger is allowed to linger (Ephesians 4:26-27).

I've known Jesus to turn over a table a time or two but he's never killed anyone over their choices so no, I don't condone that. But, I feel as if I'm not doing my personal duty if I do not try to gentley restore someone who is caught in error. I'd want someone to do the same for me!

Hi Angel... Excellent post...excellent and annointed.

And you KNOW I have more coming...

Here's the thing. People only want 'our' Jesus as long as it lets them still do what they want to do, which is 'play games' with life and the sacredness of it. As long as they can please their fleshly desires, wallow in their choices of sin, all is 'cool' until the word comes forth and convicts them; Then all of a sudden, we're a judgemental Christian.

We're not stupid. As long as people want to continue to do what they want to do which is 'convenient' with them, Jesus is fine. And that's what the big fuss is about with those who oppose Christianity. They want to stay in sin and never intend to come out of it and be a real Christian. Hence the attack upon us...

Like I said, we're not stupid...the real deal is right there. Christians are fine until the 'Truth' is spoken. Naysayers don't want to hear the Truth, because they do not want to change from what they want to do.

As always, your words were quite adequate with scripture to back it up.

 

[kbragg]

I think you misunderstood my statement. I didn't say that we don't have to look at the other parts of the bible, which is one book (both old and new testament).

Oh I know girl, I wasn't directing that towards your statement at all. I was agreeing and expanding upon the point. Homosexuals constantly say "well Jesus never directly spoke again homosexuality" as if the rest of the Word is irelevant

 

[janiebaby]

I haven't really read the responses on here or the entire OP for that matter but I'll still throw in a nickel. I do understand how someone could be a bit put off by religious people. Some people can intimidate you either directly or indirectly and make you feel like you need to know every story, book, verse in the religious text. I have a muslim friend who feels like some muslims can be like this also so I think that it happens in every religion.

As a Christian, I know that I have to practice love, that means loving God, his Word, myself and others. That means not judging people, not using harsh words, and making people feel welcome in my presence. I think that when you come across people that are not practicing love, that you should love them by praying for them and not taking it personally because they need to strengthen their walk with the Lord and it has nothing to do with you. You should also ask the Lord to make you less judgemental of others.

And finally, please realize that all people are different and have their little quirks about them including you and me. Try to find people who have similar interests as you, which is harder to do in a group, but rest assured there are people just as put off and afraid as you are elsewhere in the Church. Most often it is easy to spot these people and when you do spot them maybe you can introduce yourself.

Hope I made sense, I'm doing too many things at once.

 

[gradygirl]

First, let me state that I am a Christian ( in the sense that I believe in the trinity and that Jesus died for my salvation), but whenever I see an event conducted by Christians, or related to Christianity, I steer clear of it. For example, there is a Christian Medical Ministry group at my school, and I have always wanted to attend, but my first thought is "are they going to plot to blow up abortion buildings or something?" I know it's extreme, and I'm kind of ashamed to say it, but I'm just being honest. This is true in regards to this forum as well; this is my first post in here, and pretty much my first visit. I came because I saw a thread that someonw posted about whether or not to go to the OT and ENT forum. The Christian in me feels that this is obviously the best choice if one wants to stay on the Christian path, so I decided that maybe I should come to my Christian sisters and seek a little help/understanding.

The main reason that I feel this way about Christian gatherings is that I feel that a lot of Christians condemn/judge others when really that's up to God. As for me, I am a virgin, but I do not condemn fornicators, I am against abortion for myself, but I am pro-choice in general, and I am heterosexual, but I do not condemn homosexuals. I constantly seek to strengthen my relationship with the Lord and follow in the footsteps of Jesus, but I honestly hold the belief that the loving others (which includes respecting their opinions even if I disagree with them) supercedes everything else.

I think I'm kind of ranting here, but I just wanted to know if you all walk and talk in the Christian spirit, and if so, what exactly does that mean to you?

As a Christian I do not condemn anyone becaue I have no heaven or hell to put anybody in. But also as a child of God I cannot condone certain things either. When I first started going to church I felt condemned and judged because I was caught up in whatever they were speaking against and did not want to hear the truth because I liked what I was doing. Because someone told me the truth I am here today. I thank God they did not change their message to suit me so I would feel better in my mess. God hates fornication, abortion, and homosexuality. He loves the sinner but he hates the sin. I'm glad no one sugar coated it for me because I would be in hell right now. For me condemnation bought about a change in my life, Did the preacher really judge or condemn me? No, He spoke the word of truth and my heart condemned me because I was living a life full of sin. Thank God for his son Jesus and Thank God for those who teach his word. I am mindful about how I talk to people about the Lord because his scripture says through love and kindness have I drawn thee but we have to tell people the truth. No matter how it makes us feel Gods word is his word and it will not change we are the ones that have to change.

 

[Shimmie]

As a Christian I do not condemn anyone becaue I have no heaven or hell to put anybody in. But also as a child of God I cannot condone certain things either. When I first started going to church I felt condemned and judged because I was caught up in whatever they were speaking against and did not want to hear the truth because I liked what I was doing. Because someone told me the truth I am here today. I thank God they did not change their message to suit me so I would feel better in my mess. God hates fornication, abortion, and homosexuality. He loves the sinner but he hates the sin. I'm glad no one sugar coated it for me because I would be in hell right now. For me condemnation bought about a change in my life, Did the preacher really judge or condemn me? No, He spoke the word of truth and my heart condemned me because I was living a life full of sin. Thank God for his son Jesus and Thank God for those who teach his word. I am mindful about how I talk to people about the Lord because his scripture says through love and kindness have I drawn thee but we have to tell people the truth. No matter how it makes us feel Gods word is his word and it will not change we are the ones that have to change.

Beautifully shared and the Truth! I also sense the love in it.

The enemy is sooooooo cunning with this "Christian" declaration such as, I don't do such and such, yet I don't judge others who do." Since when are the weapons of our warfare as Christians comprised of wet noodles, which have no strength to stand against the enemy.

What has Pro-Choice done for humanity and for the good of women. They've actually become more promiscuious with their sexuality. They've become more bold with sleeping whenever with whoever, for there is an 'escape' clause called legalized abortion for any reason deemed desired.

What has homosexuality done for humanity? Granted, no human being, be he or she gay or heterosexual, should be mistreated. And all humans have the right to treated as such...a human being. I do not advocate brutality, hate crimes, nor angry slurs and harsh names upon any human being. Homosexuals are preciuous human beings and deserve human rights and love and respect as human beings.

But to teach to my children that homosexuality is a way of life and tell my children that I'm wrong for speaking against it and to condemn me for such is beyond wrong.

How is it that schools can NOW teach pro-homosexuality, pro-choice, and yet anti-prayer and anti-God? Something off balance here. How dare the world call Christians the enemy when the real enemy is what the world is trying to do...elminate all that represents God and our faith in Him. It's not Christians using forceful tactics, it's those who oppose us doing all of the forcing of their way of living which is not ours.

I'm not afraid of 'man' and never will be. I learned a long time ago to put God first for man will always look to himself before He'll look to God.

 

[gradygirl]

Thank You Shimmie, You are such a sweetheart.

 

[azul11]

Whatchu mean you would call me a liar?Nah you're right, no one walks up to me and says those words. But I have had a friend or two ask me questions about my faith and why I do the things that I do and believe what I believe. I use those opportunities to witness because the door is open. While I'm not always that great at it, I try to make my life my biggest testimony. People get curious and want to know more and I share with them. It may not convert them on the spot, but I know I've planted a seed that could possibly germinate 5 days to 5 years from now.

I actually now remember one girl who used to read my blog on a regular basis and one of my posts was about my thoughts on God. We talked frequently over e-mail and IM and she brought up how she didn't like that Christians called everyone a sinner. She went on about how she always tried to treat people fairly, didn't steal, murder, rape, pillage (you know the list). I used the opportunity to bring to her attention the often overlooked sins like materialism, lying (even the little white ones), gossiping, being manipulative etc. I showed her that no matter what we as humans are ALL sinners cause none of us reach God's righteousness so that's why we all need forgiveness and repentence. Did she fall on her knees and accept Christ as her savior and turn away from her sin that instant? Not so much...but I know that I gave her a word that has the potential to grow in time.

That's what I mean when I say waiting to be asked. If someone is asking, it means they definitely want to hear what you have to say...they may not like it. But at the very least they want to hear it. When someone doesn't want to hear it, it's like the seeds that were thrown on the rocks...they just get washed away with the rain cause there's NO fertile ground for it to take root in.

I agree. God bless you all.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I do too, but we also need to look at the WHOLE New Testament and not just pick and choose from the Gospels. Jesus's job was not to convert sinners because he had not yet completed the process for reconcilliation. We need to look to what Jesus sais and the diciples did AFTER the Resurrection. Jesus came to earth to defeat death, hell, and the grave. To destroy the power of sin and create a path of reconcilliation to the Father. This was His mission. ALL of the Bible is God's Word, not just the red letter part. Jesus is the Word made flesh. All of it.

The Word says that "No one comes to the Father unless the Spirit (Holy Spirit) draws them." So I assume we need to be led by the Spirit to know when how and to whom to speak a word in "DUE SEASON", and man does not know that. I guess that is why Revelation emphasized..."Let Him who has an ear hear what the Spirit is saying"...cause my "flesh" could mess up big time, the wrong way the wrong time. But Isaiah said "Here am I send me"...so it is good to know that there are those who are willing to go WHEN they are ....SENT. What do you think in this regard? bonjour

 

[Finewine]

Well I think that assume a Medical Ministry would be plotting to blow up abortion clinics is IMO just as bad as someone saying all Muslims are terrorists.

As far as Christians "judging," it's not that we judge or condemn anyone, it's that God has already judged and ondemned it as sin and just as Jesus did, it is our job to proclaim the Word of God, even if it's not all the fluffy "Jesus Loves Me Happy Joy Joy" versus. I find your perspective on love interesting. I believe that if you truly love some one, the biggest disservice you can do is to keep the Truth from them. Millions of people will die and go to hell in 2008 because Christians didn't have the courage to tell them the truth. It doesn't have to be in a mean, hateful way, but we at least owe it to the lost to do as JESUS commanded and fulfill the Great Commission.

Your worst enermy is someone who knows the truth but won't tell it to you. Let me ask you, if your best friend was doing drugs, or cutting, or doing something to themselves that could literally kill them, would you just sit back quietly and let them kill themselves, or would you love them enough, to exhort them to stop? Sin has the power to not only destroy the flesh, but the soul as well, for eternity, so why as Christians is it looked upon as unloving to do that for someone. I thank God that someone had the courage to tell me that sin was sin and the fact that I said a little prayer when I was 12, cried in church a couple times, and got water Baptised did not guarantee me a ticket to heaven, unlike what the modern day teaches. I was still IN sin. I continued in it because sin is made so light of because people are afraid of "offending" people and "losing members" but this false watered down Gospel is sending MILLIONS of people to hell each year. Church going people at that.

The Bible tells us to examine ourselves to see if we're in the faith. Does the fruit of our life reflect true repentence? Or do we still live like the world everyday and "play church" on Sunday? I really wish Christians would truly love the souls of men and not just worry about being "liked."

I got so convicted yesterday. I went to a mid week service and the message was on being an Ambassador For Christ, and I know I have been falling short of that. The Lord brought to mind my young cousin. He just got married and has a new baby. He called me 2 times before he was shipped off to Iraq. He's "churched" but he's not saved. Here God had given me opportunities to share the true Gospel with my cousin and I did not take them. Now he's in Iraq. If he dies over there, wow, how that will weigh on my spirit that I had the chance to share the Lord with him, and didn't take it.

He doesn't need the "Jesus loves me" message, he needed to be called to repentance to be saved. That's one issue I take with modern day Sunday school. The focus is Jesus loves you, you are a child of God etc. They have no concept of sin, repentance, self sacrifice, dying to self, and being a true follower of Christ, and as a result these kids grow up thinking they're Christians and they're not. They think they're saved and they're not. And the church and their parents don't love them enough to tell them the truth!

To me, loving someone is telling them the truth, even if it, hurts, even if they don't like it. Because God's Word will not return to Him void and surely they will THANK you for loving them enough to tell them the truth. I'm not taking about acting all crazy sreaming repent! I'm talking, just as you would do an intervention for a friend who was doing drugs, or being beaten, we need to intervine for the lost.

Sorry, so long, but this is what was on my heart when I read your post.

First of all, thanks for all the responses Ladies. I'm in the middle of studyin so I haven't read them all yet. I didn't want to abandon my thread though.

I wante to reply to this by saying that I do try to minister to those who aren't saved, but I NEVER condemn or judge the person. I can say that according to the God's word their behavior is wrong, but i would never condemn them to hell. I am not the ultimate judge of their works and behavior so I refrain from doing that. I do this because people tend to tune you out if you come at them in an aggressive or offensive manner which ultimately negates anything that you say. God's love is what brought me to Him and that's how I try to bring others to Him as well.

 

[Finewine]

Girl, don't even get me started on the watered down gospel that passes for Christianity nowadays. Ugghhh. Sin and the need for repentence is swept under the rug and needs to be brought to the forefront of our message again. But notice that before Jesus pointed out the condition of the young ruler's heart, the man first asked, "what must I do to have eternal life?" Often times we point out the condition of someone's heart/life without even being asked. I think that's why many people, even Christ followers themselves, find born again/spirit filled/evangelical Christians to be scary.
It's like this...as Christians we often don't love people just to love them. We love them with the hope of saving them, when that's really not our job. Yes we are to proclaim the gospel, but the conversion is all God's doing. I will be so bold as to say many Christians love with ulterior motives (whether that motive be good or bad is irrelevant). I know from personal experience that I've been more receptive to reproof, correction, and exhortations from people I already had true fellowship/relationship/community with than from people who were just out to prove that they're right and I'm wrong and I need to repent.

Cheetarah, you're always on it! ITA with your post especially the bolded. I feel like it's our job to show people the way to God and be there. They have to be ready and willing to do it on their own.

 

[firecracker]

As a Christian, I know that I have to practice love, that means loving God, his Word, myself and others. That means not judging people, not using harsh words, and making people feel welcome in my presence. I think that when you come across people that are not practicing love, that you should love them by praying for them and not taking it personally because they need to strengthen their walk with the Lord and it has nothing to do with you. You should also ask the Lord to make you less judgemental of others.

And finally, please realize that all people are different and have their little quirks about them including you and me.

ITA. No one is without sin so all that "oh I'm the real thing and they are not" is some kind of self righteous mental trickery to make themself feel better than.

Kbraggs you made me spit out my juice from laughing cuz I sholly watch those Maury "you are not the father" shows as well as get my daily biblical/ spiritual read on.

 

[Finewine]

I'm coming back to this thread...I'm in the middle something right now and have to finish it.

But let me say this...

Once again, the enemy is trying to put Christianity on the 'chopping block'. I mean Come ON! Since when do REAL Christians blow up abortion clinics/buildings. Just because someone goes around labeling or calling themselves a Christian doesn't mean that they are a Christian.

What is it that just because we do not advocate abortion, that makes us a terriorist? Or because we do not advocate the 'ACT' of homosexuality, that makes us homophobic or judgemental and/or intolerant.

The irony is that 'other' persons/cultures/groups can have THEIR beliefs and are PUSHING them upon us and our children and expect us not to object to it.

Christians do not blow up buildings. Christians do not harm other lives. Christians are not terriorists.

Jesus made it plain, "You will know them by their fruit." "Them" being fruitful of Jesus meaning Chrisitians. Not imposters.

finewine83 realize that satan's biggest target and objective is to discredit God and all that He stands for. If you have 'fear' than that is NOT of God. For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but the spirit of power, love and of a Sound Mind. As as a Christian, you have no business being fearful, knowing God is on your side. You have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into ALL Truth and He and only He will give you the gift of discerning what's right, what's wrong, what's true in HIM.

I'm sick of the devil and his mess. I've just about had it with this foolishness that 'we' as Christians are the enemy and the bad guys. That we as Chrisitians are forcing our beliefs upon others. That's a bunch of foolishness in comparison to what the world system is consistantly forcing upon us each and every moment of the day.

Look at the mess in the Media. Are there any descent movies or family television shows. Listen to the music industry. The music videos. And our schools are being infiltrated with just as much foolishness. Homosexuality is literally being shoved down our throats where we now 'have' to accept it as a normal lifestyle???? Yet we can't live our own. We're told not to pray in schools, not even privately.

Since when is the love of God something for a Christian to be fearful of? The devil is a liar and I can see straight through his attempts to bring yet another negative attack against Christianity.

I come against this mess in Jesus's Name. And I am not playing games. All satan wants is for someone else to justify another lie that Christianity has no merit or sacredness.

Bottomline, Christianity has nothing to be fearful of and it never will.

To clarify, I made that comment about blowing up an abortion clinic, because the abortion clinic a couple of blocks from my campus was blown up (in the name of Christianity) when I was in high school. No, I don't believe that most of those of claim to be Christians would do such a heinous crime, but I was being honest in stating that is the first thing that comes to my mind.

I know that everyone claiming to be Christian really isn't, that's one of the reasons I began this post--- to get the opinons and viewpoints of others.

 

[kbragg]

The Word says that "No one comes to the Father unless the Spirit (Holy Spirit) draws them." So I assume we need to be led by the Spirit to know when how and to whom to speak a word in "DUE SEASON", and man does not know that. I guess that is why Revelation emphasized..."Let Him who has an ear hear what the Spirit is saying"...cause my "flesh" could mess up big time, the wrong way the wrong time. But Isaiah said "Here am I send me"...so it is good to know that there are those who are willing to go WHEN they are ....SENT. What do you think in this regard? bonjour

ITA with what you said! You MUST be led by the Spirit!

 

[kbragg]

ITA. No one is without sin so all that "oh I'm the real thing and they are not" is some kind of self righteous mental trickery to make themself feel better than.

Kbraggs you made me spit out my juice from laughing cuz I sholly watch those Maury "you are not the father" shows as well as get my daily biblical/ spiritual read on.

IMO it's not "self righteousness". There is NONE righteous, not even one. However Jesus did say that we shall know them by their fruits, and while sanctification IS a process, when somone truly realizes what Christ sacrifice for them really means, I just can't comprehend how someone could continue in sin, knowing what Jesus suffer for. I'm not talking about a slip or fall, I'm talking about, intentional, premeditated sin. How could anyone do that to Him?

 

[Finewine]

I haven't really read the responses on here or the entire OP for that matter but I'll still throw in a nickel. I do understand how someone could be a bit put off by religious people. Some people can intimidate you either directly or indirectly and make you feel like you need to know every story, book, verse in the religious text. I have a muslim friend who feels like some muslims can be like this also so I think that it happens in every religion.

As a Christian, I know that I have to practice love, that means loving God, his Word, myself and others. That means not judging people, not using harsh words, and making people feel welcome in my presence. I think that when you come across people that are not practicing love, that you should love them by praying for them and not taking it personally because they need to strengthen their walk with the Lord and it has nothing to do with you. You should also ask the Lord to make you less judgemental of others.

And finally, please realize that all people are different and have their little quirks about them including you and me. Try to find people who have similar interests as you, which is harder to do in a group, but rest assured there are people just as put off and afraid as you are elsewhere in the Church. Most often it is easy to spot these people and when you do spot them maybe you can introduce yourself.

Hope I made sense, I'm doing too many things at once.

Girl, you made perfect sense. sweet post. Thanks

 

[Finewine]

As a Christian I do not condemn anyone becaue I have no heaven or hell to put anybody in. But also as a child of God I cannot condone certain things either. When I first started going to church I felt condemned and judged because I was caught up in whatever they were speaking against and did not want to hear the truth because I liked what I was doing. Because someone told me the truth I am here today. I thank God they did not change their message to suit me so I would feel better in my mess. God hates fornication, abortion, and homosexuality. He loves the sinner but he hates the sin. I'm glad no one sugar coated it for me because I would be in hell right now. For me condemnation bought about a change in my life, Did the preacher really judge or condemn me? No, He spoke the word of truth and my heart condemned me because I was living a life full of sin. Thank God for his son Jesus and Thank God for those who teach his word. I am mindful about how I talk to people about the Lord because his scripture says through love and kindness have I drawn thee but we have to tell people the truth. No matter how it makes us feel Gods word is his word and it will not change we are the ones that have to change.

I agree with this. It seems like you have a happy medium. You can state that someone's actions are wrong, and help to show them the way to God without condemning which is what I wished more people chose to do.