Concern/Question about Church's attitude toward Homosexuality

[cocoberry10]

Hi Ladies:

I hope this thread does not create controversy or drama. I wanted to bring up this topic, because something in my soul doesn't sit well. I have always been a Christian (raised in a Christian household, baptized/saved at 11, preached a sermon at 13, testify, and try to live a Godly life).

I know what the bible says about homosexuality, so I'm not questioning that. However, my soul doesn't feel right about how the church is dealing with the issue. I went to church on Sunday, and I felt the pastor preaching was taking a violent attitude towards homosexuals. I have friends that are homosexual, and most of them are Christian, and I would be afraid to invite them to that church. The pastor said he would like to punch and drop kick and strangle the pastors that welcome gay people into their church, like that lifestyle is acceptable.

He always weaves some nasty comment about homosexuals into his sermons, to remind us that the lifestyle is sinful, and the church recently held a parade against homosexuals. He also insinuated that those of us that won't take a firm stand against homosexuality are weak Christians. This did not feel Godly or Christian to me. I cannot believe that Jesus would want to strangle gay people, whether He agreed with their lifestyle or not. I do believe that God gave us free will, and that people should be free to live their lives as they choose.

It also disturbed me that he focuses so much on homosexuality, when there are children (in the church) going home and getting beat, molested, raped, and emotionally abused. There are children raising themselves and their siblings b/c their parents can't or won't. There are women in the church who go home to husbands who beat them. There are men who go home to wives who beat or henpeck them. There are people struggling with drug addictions, porn addictions, etc. It really hurts my soul that this church seems to be so focused on the issue of homosexuality, and not the other issues. There are people (homosexual and heterosexual) who are dying of AIDS. The church never talks about this.

What do you all think?

 

[brazenxvirtue]

I think I understand what you're talking about. And if something doesn't sit well in your spirit, that may be the Holy Spirit telling you something's not quite right. It doesn't sound like you're questioning what's in line with scripture. Sometimes as christians we get so fed up with the world we forget that we're still supposed to love them. There's a time for righteous anger and a time for compassion. If you're noticing an imbalance where compassion is lacking, that may be a warning sign.

 

[dlewis]

Sounds like he has a lot of hate. I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle but Jesus commanded us to LOVE. And that Pastor is not sending a loving message.

God did not send a spirit of confussion, if you are unsettled run with the quickness, and stay away from that church.

 

[Shimmie]

Hmmmmm.......okay.

There is a balance. Love the sinner, but not the sin. As Christans, our delivery and attitude does make a difference.

I see your Pastor as being fed up with what our world has come to. Gay marriage, gay teens, gay acceptance, gay encouragement, gay mess...where marriages are now being destroyed because a spouse now wants to live a gay lifestyle with a gay lover. Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen Digereris (sp?) don't help at all. Your Pastor has chosen to put his foot down...against the Spirit of homosexuality...not the persons who are, persay. It is a Spirit of perversion brought on by satan to impune, to bring shame upon God for choosing us and not him. It's an epedemic now. Being gay is not nor will it ever be okay. But the world is leaning more and more towards that direction...even the church. AND it's wrong and if we do not speak up it will continue. We cannot be lax in our attitudes about this. Period. That is what has fueled your Pastor's messages, the gay take over. I agree with his motive and I disagree with his delivery.

NOW, to treat a gay person as less than human is wrong. Yes, we are to love them and I have many in my life that I truly love. When I'm with them I do not see a homosexual, I see my friend or my cousin or the sweet person who shared their heart with me and allowed me to pray with them.

I see the loving person, who brings me my mail, helps me carry my heavy bags to my door step, carries my heavy dance bag into the studio or back stage.

The man who walks me to the car, and hugs me before I get inside, the man who brings me a fresh bottle of water without being asked, the man who helps me with my coat and keeps my costume from getting snagged on a nail;

The one who helps me with my hair and offers to cut it anytime I'm ready, for free; the bus driver who waits for me and says, don't run, I'm not leaving you... Oh yes, these men are gay, but gay is not what I see when I am with them...instead I see men...who have chosen me as their friend and I love them and they love me. Can I hurt them? No, but it is a greater hurt to allow them to go to hell and perish because I ignore and say gay is okay.

So in prayer...

Dear Lord, please show us the balance. Move in us with YOUR compassion, not ours, for with us are many, many limitations and conditions with our love. Lord, let us be you and not us.

Lead us not into temptation to judge and be cruel, let us instead be the warmth and loving life of you. Life to life...love to love, heart to heart, no matter who, no matter what. Let all be just like you to one another. In Jesus' name, Amen and Amen.

 

[victorious]

I once visited a crowded church and sat two rows in front of a group of young adults in the back. One guy who was gay made suggestive comments during the guest minister’s message. The guy twisted the minister’s words around, made lewd sounds, and kept his friends entertained. I was annoyed because he was rude and disruptive. No one told them to stop, not even the ushers. I won't visit there again.

Here’s what I think:
If a person is struggling with drugs, porn, homosexuality, abusive behavior, etc., and that person sincerely wants to change his/her lifestyle, I think that person should be welcomed to a church where God can change him/her.

But if that person wants to continue doing what they want, and the heart is hardened despite regular counsel, that person has different motives for attending church.

Some things are easier to hide than others, but the truth has a way of surfacing. The difference is how you handle the truth...God's way or your way. I don't agree with that Pastor.

 

[cocoberry10]

Thanks ladies, I appreciate all responses. I don't question the word, but like Shimmie, I have friends that are homosexual and when I see them, I only see people.

I do understand what all of you are saying, and I don't disagree. I guess I just feel like we as a church cannot deliver people, whether it's drug addiction, sexual issues, abuse, or any other problem, if we can't treat them like humans first. Not to say everything is okay, that's not what I'm saying. Just that sometimes there is a hateful anger towards people, and that's not God. Not in my mind anyway. We should condemn sin, but we don't have to hate people. Not even sinners. Just my thoughts!

 

[keluric]

I agree with most of what's been said. I suppose I just never understand what the controversy is.. if you don't agree with homosexual sex, don't have homosexual sex. If you don't agree with same-sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. It seems so simple to me.. like Wanda Sykes said, "I don't understand people being so up-in-arms about stuff that doesn't apply to them."

What other people do and don't do isn't bringing me any closer or pushing me any farther away from my God.

 

[Southernbella.]

Thanks ladies, I appreciate all responses. I don't question the word, but like Shimmie, I have friends that are homosexual and when I see them, I only see people.

I do understand what all of you are saying, and I don't disagree. I guess I just feel like we as a church cannot deliver people, whether it's drug addiction, sexual issues, abuse, or any other problem, if we can't treat them like humans first. Not to say everything is okay, that's not what I'm saying. Just that sometimes there is a hateful anger towards people, and that's not God. Not in my mind anyway. We should condemn sin, but we don't have to hate people. Not even sinners. Just my thoughts!

ITA. It's selective preaching. Where is the fire and brimstone for the people who create multiple children out of wedlock with no means to take care of them? For the "fathers" who have sex and impregnate every woman within a 5 mile radius and then don't take care of their children? For the thugs who are invading people's homes and killing them over thier posessions? THOSE THINGS are more of a problem in our community than two gay people who sleep together in their own home.

It's a diversion to keep us from focusing on the things that are REALLY messing up our families. I would get out of that church ASAP and find one with a pastor with a loving spirit. I'm not saying you have to find a church that agrees with homosexuality. Find one with a pastor who doesn't discriminate and place one sin over another, or make smart comments about people (that is SO not like God).

I can't tell you how much it annoys me when pastors ignore the most obvious problems and focus on homosexuality. It makes you wonder what's going on in their homes for them to gloss over other sins.

 

[brazenxvirtue]

Thanks ladies, I appreciate all responses. I don't question the word, but like Shimmie, I have friends that are homosexual and when I see them, I only see people.

I do understand what all of you are saying, and I don't disagree. I guess I just feel like we as a church cannot deliver people, whether it's drug addiction, sexual issues, abuse, or any other problem, if we can't treat them like humans first. Not to say everything is okay, that's not what I'm saying. Just that sometimes there is a hateful anger towards people, and that's not God. Not in my mind anyway. We should condemn sin, but we don't have to hate people. Not even sinners. Just my thoughts!

I completely agree. This reminds me of I Cor. 5:9-10 where it says, "I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world... since then you would need to go out of the world."

How can we minister to those we don't know?

 

[Bunny77]

ITA. It's selective preaching. Where is the fire and brimstone for the people who create multiple children out of wedlock with no means to take care of them? For the "fathers" who have sex and impregnate every woman within a 5 mile radius and then don't take care of their children? For the thugs who are invading people's homes and killing them over thier posessions? THOSE THINGS are more of a problem in our community than two gay people who sleep together in their own home.

It's a diversion to keep us from focusing on the things that are REALLY messing up our families. I would get out of that church ASAP and find one with a pastor with a loving spirit. I'm not saying you have to find a church that agrees with homosexuality. Find one with a pastor who doesn't discriminate and place one sin over another, or make smart comments about people (that is SO not like God).

I can't tell you how much it annoys me when pastors ignore the most obvious problems and focus on homosexuality. It makes you wonder what's going on in their homes for them to gloss over other sins.

I've always wondered if these types of pastors focus so much on homosexuality because it's something that most people can't relate to or feel that it's separate from their experience... therefore, it's no "challenge" for them and many of their parishioners to overcome.

But fornication? Greed? Envy? All the things that you mentioned in your post? That hits WAAAAY too close to home for many people. A sermon against heterosexual fornication would probably target 90% or more of the congregation (including the pastor himself) and make people way too uncomfortable.

I think that as much as folks say they hate sin, it's extremely difficult for them to examine their own sins... therefore, they take the "easy" way out and turn to something like homosexuality since they know it's something they aren't dealing with.

A true Christian interested in improving his/her relationship with God wouldn't focus on one issue to the exclusion of areas that they're actually failing in in their own lives.

 

[Ms Lala]

I completely agree with what was posted here. What that pastor said is horrible, unnecessary, and was definitely not inspired by the spirit. The bible tells us to love our neighbor as ourself. We must show people the Christ in us by loving them. I recently had someone tell me that they didn't feel the love as a gay person in church so they didn't go. And this was someone who actually wants to change their life, but they feel like they don't get a chance to because people are constantly judging and being rude. How can you go to bible study, or Sunday service and learn about God if you are completely uncomfortable and being degraded. I think it's horrible. How about we talk about overeating and all of the obesity that is a problem in the church, especially the black church. Last time I checked gluttony was a sin! If we would stop trying to act Christian and just be Christ like by walking in love I think people would coming running into the church. But we run them the other way.

 

[cocoberry10]

I completely agree with what was posted here. What that pastor said is horrible, unnecessary, and was definitely not inspired by the spirit. The bible tells us to love our neighbor as ourself. We must show people the Christ in us by loving them. I recently had someone tell me that they didn't feel the love as a gay person in church so they didn't go. And this was someone who actually wants to change their life, but they feel like they don't get a chance to because people are constantly judging and being rude. How can you go to bible study, or Sunday service and learn about God if you are completely uncomfortable and being degraded. I think it's horrible. How about we talk about overeating and all of the obesity that is a problem in the church, especially the black church. Last time I checked gluttony was a sin! If we would stop trying to act Christian and just be Christ like by walking in love I think people would coming running into the church. But we run them the other way.

Thanks Ladies for all the posts. ITA with you all. When I die, I don't want God to tell me well attempted my servant, I want him to say well done good and faithful servant! I want to know that I brought people to Him, not away.

 

[Shimmie]

Thanks ladies, I appreciate all responses. I don't question the word, but like Shimmie, I have friends that are homosexual and when I see them, I only see people.

I do understand what all of you are saying, and I don't disagree. I guess I just feel like we as a church cannot deliver people, whether it's drug addiction, sexual issues, abuse, or any other problem, if we can't treat them like humans first. Not to say everything is okay, that's not what I'm saying. Just that sometimes there is a hateful anger towards people, and that's not God. Not in my mind anyway. We should condemn sin, but we don't have to hate people. Not even sinners. Just my thoughts!

Coco, it's quite an experience, isn't it? When I'm with my friends, we don't even think gay or straight, we're just people who care about each other and having a good conversation or enjoying each other's company. The friend who loves my hair is a professional barber...top of the line. Whenever I see him, the first thing I see is his eyes, then his smile and it all shows his heart. He likes me and he also knows I am a fanatic with God's word. Oh yes...he puts up with me.

My other friend who is in Mass Transit, will sit on the bus and wait for me and he doesn't care who's on the bus fussing at him, he waits for me. And he also puts up with me and all my preaching and yet he loves me still.

I have two female family members who are 'out there', but I love them and I can't disown them. They too, know me and all of my Jesus Yet, they still love me, and stay open to the word. They know, but they are just caught up.

I've learned that you have to establish a loving relationship with a gay person. Not to dive in or jump in with the 'kill'. For in truth, it's not about them so much as it is about the 'spirit' that has been attached to their soulish realm.

Homosexuality is a spirit and the reason a gay person 'believes' that 'they are' is because that spirit has taken over person's psyche...the soul. But thank God for Jesus who in His mercy died and paid the price for our souls and deliverance is what becomes key in setting the captives free. And that applies to ALL sexual sins, not just gay, but all. ALL sins period. For we all have sinned and have fallen short from the glory of God.

The problem with gay sin, is that is dangerously being accepted as an alternative lifestyle. There is a battle that says, it is normal and gradually, the Church is backing down and letting go of the fight. It cannot be perceived as okay in any type of way. In the same manner as lying, fornication, cheating, glutony, etc. will never be exceptable, we cannot say that homosexuality is.

We cannot surcomb to the mindset of 'let them live that way, if they want' or that it harms no one.' It does harm others, for it spreads into the hearts and minds and lives of others until there is an epedimic...another Sodom and Gomora.

What bothers me are shows like, Oprah and others that display Christians as the gay haters, when in truth we are not. They have strategically orchestrated these shows to make us look like the villians. Yet, there are more of us who love gays and care about them than those who hate them.

This is what fuels up many Pastors, because it has made the fight the more harder to convey a message of love.

 

[Ms Lala]

What bothers me are shows like, Oprah and others that display Christians as the gay haters, when in truth we are not. They have strategically orchestrated these shows to make us look like the villians. Yet, there are more of us who love gays and care about them than those who hate them.

This is what fuels up many Pastors, because it has made the fight the more harder to convey a message of love.

I agree with this. Part of the problem is those Christians that speak out of hate and not love but they never show those who are acting in love. THere is wonderful ministry call Exodus ministries that I NEVER hear about on TV that ministers to people with sexuality struggles in a loving way. Also I have heard people of other religions speak out against this lifestyle but this isn't brought up on tv. I have heard ministers of the Nation of Islam curse and say absolutely horrid things about gays in their sermons aired on the radio. I personally think there is a war against Christianity and that is part of the reason why we are always protrayed as the villain.

 

[Shimmie]

I agree with this. Part of the problem is those Christians that speak out of hate and not love but they never show those who are acting in love.

THere is wonderful ministry call Exodus ministries that I NEVER hear about on TV that ministers to people with sexuality struggles in a loving way.

Also I have heard people of other religions speak out against this lifestyle but this isn't brought up on tv. I have heard ministers of the Nation of Islam curse and say absolutely horrid things about gays in their sermons aired on the radio. I personally think there is a war against Christianity and that is part of the reason why we are always protrayed as the villain.[/quote]

Ms. Lala, thank you! Every single word in your post is the truth. And this is another reason why 'we' as Christians 'sometimes' react because the attack against 'us' is actually stronger than the attack against homosexuals.

It's interesting that there is a 'fight' for gay rights and yet the rights of being a Christian is what's really under attack. Think about it. There's more non-acceptance of Christainity than there is of gays. Mind you, I'm not out to start a vicious campaign, but as you shared there are other religions (Faiths) that say horrid things against homosexuality and nothing is said, yet we as Chrisitians are portrayed always as the villians.

Obviously we are a serious threat to the devil for he knows the power we all have in love. Love covers a multitude of sins. It was Love that saved us all...God's love. And it is this same love that will continue to be and prevail over all sin, no matter what. It's obvious that we are indestructable and unstoppable. All we can do is continue to be who we are in love and to stay in prayer. For we have been made more than conquerors through Jesus Christ who loves us.

ETA: Ms Lala...your screen name is a sweet and soft melody to every ear.

 

[Southernbella.]

The problem with gay sin, is that is dangerously being accepted as an alternative lifestyle. There is a battle that says, it is normal and gradually, the Church is backing down and letting go of the fight. It cannot be perceived as okay in any type of way. In the same manner as lying, fornication, cheating, glutony, etc. will never be exceptable, we cannot say that homosexuality is.

We cannot surcomb to the mindset of 'let them live that way, if they want' or that it harms no one.' It does harm others, for it spreads into the hearts and minds and lives of others until there is an epedimic...another Sodom and Gomora.

Unfortunately, lying, fornication, cheating, gluttony, etc ARE acceptable, which is why many Christians, including leadership, are involved in them.

The problem I have is this...why are we so concerned about the church backing down from this one issue, when they have backed down from nearly every other important issue that plagues this nation? Why are we still holding onto the idea that homosexuality is the thing that will tear this world apart?

Last I checked, more people are harmed by murders, rapes, child abuse/molestation, fathers leaving the home, stealing by our government, lying by our government, and prejudice/racism, among may other things. To say that what two consenting same-sex adults do in their bedroom is more harmful than those things, to me, is very shortsighted and biased.

ut fornication? Greed? Envy? All the things that you mentioned in your post? That hits WAAAAY too close to home for many people. A sermon against heterosexual fornication would probably target 90% or more of the congregation (including the pastor himself) and make people way too uncomfortable.

I think that as much as folks say they hate sin, it's extremely difficult for them to examine their own sins... therefore, they take the "easy" way out and turn to something like homosexuality since they know it's something they aren't dealing with.

A true Christian interested in improving his/her relationship with God wouldn't focus on one issue to the exclusion of areas that they're actually failing in in their own lives.

ITA, especially with the bolded.

 

[star]

Hard subject for some bonafide straight men who are Pastors sometimes I think they let their emotions get to involved. But I do know some homosexuals go to Churches with the direct intent to sleep with the Pastor. I have notice that some really take offense to this and go all out to get the message to them. In one Church a homosexual was approach quietly about leaving the Pastor and other men alone but the guy would not quit; his attitude has make me. So this Pastor got up every Sunday and as you have said weaved it into his sermon until the guy left. Some homosexuals are determine to come to Church to pick up men and others are really trying to get delivered. I think we really have to pray for them and the Pastors because God only knows what is really going on. So sad about this problem in the church not good because we should always try to show love but if someone does not stop doing something some leaders seem to be going into a rage about it.

 

[pebbles]

Unfortunately, lying, fornication, cheating, gluttony, etc ARE acceptable, which is why many Christians, including leadership, are involved in them.

The problem I have is this...why are we so concerned about the church backing down from this one issue, when they have backed down from nearly every other important issue that plagues this nation? Why are we still holding onto the idea that homosexuality is the thing that will tear this world apart?

Last I checked, more people are harmed by murders, rapes, child abuse/molestation, fathers leaving the home, stealing by our government, lying by our government, and prejudice/racism, among may other things. To say that what two consenting same-sex adults do in their bedroom is more harmful than those things, to me, is very shortsighted and biased.

ITA, especially with the bolded.

First, I don't know when all those things you listed at the very top became accepted in the church. Many people in the church are guilty of many of the sins listed, but to this day they are NOT acceptable behavior. I haven't gotten the memo that the word of God changed as to what is now acceptable behavior among His people. Let's face it, people sin, whether in the church or not. Who's really shocked by any of that? The bible already told on all of them! We know these things happen among people who call themselves Christians! Poor Paul wrote letters to them until his fingers must have hurt like hell! Let God deal with them.

Secondly, someone in the church needs to be concerned about the homosexual agenda and speak up about it. Why not let it start here, with us? If the world at large wants to condone this behavior, that's up to them. But believers who know the word of God better stand up and let their voices be counted among those who speak against it. Remaining silent is no longer an option in this fight. The time to make your position known is now.

The reason this deserves our attention is because homosexuality is threatening the very foundation of what God intended for a real family to be, and slowly, without notice, our society is changing right before our very eyes. Who's paying attention? People are so busy trying not to offend anybody that morals are taking a back seat to people's feelings.

The other day on the radio, I heard that there are homosexual groups pushing for public schools to teach homosexual tolerence to our children, in some cases for children as young as 5 years old, and they really don't feel that parents should have the right to have a say in that. Why not? If two consenting adults want to indulge in homosexual activity in their bedroom, have at it. But that activity has spilled out into the streets, and into our society, and is affecting how people want us to think. Now that's a problem for me.

 

[Shimmie]

Unfortunately, lying, fornication, cheating, gluttony, etc ARE acceptable, which is why many Christians, including leadership, are involved in them.

Not a good enough arguement. For this false concept is Not in my church nor multiple 1000's of ministries all over the world. It's the 'few' and also Christians with lax attitudes that allow this, including lax attitudes about homosexuality. As I said clearly in my post,

In the same manner as lying, fornication, cheating, glutony, etc. will never be exceptable, we cannot say that homosexuality is.

The problem I have is this...why are we so concerned about the church backing down from this one issue, when they have backed down from nearly every other important issue that plagues this nation? Why are we still holding onto the idea that homosexuality is the thing that will tear this world apart?

It may not tear the world apart, but the church still has to take a stand. A little leaven, leavens the whole lump. I have children in church and they will not be subjected to a mindset that homosexuality is an accepted lifestyle. It not acceptable, nor is it worth the cost. Already there are gay churchs, gay marriages, which has already gone more than far enough with its negative influence.

Last I checked, more people are harmed by murders, rapes, child abuse/molestation, fathers leaving the home, stealing by our government, lying by our government, and prejudice/racism, among may other things.

True and no one in their right mind denies this...I don't deny it, nor does my Pastor and the majority of Believers as well as non-Believers. And there are 1000's upon 1000's of ministries that are focused on helping people in these areas and other tragedies of life not mentioned. As noted also, there are many ministries who are also ministering to gays, in more ways each day.

Knowing this, homosexuality is not the victim of scrutiny to the degree that some would perceive it to be.

To say that what two consenting same-sex adults do in their bedroom is more harmful than those things, to me, is very shortsighted and biased.

Sadly, it's not that simple, it extremely shortsighted and biased to think that otherwise, for this is not remaining in the bedroom. God says, 'Your sin will find you out.' Look what's happening: Children are being approached with this lifestyle in schools everyday. And not just teens.

Young children are copying what they see going on in the home. I've had teachers share situations with me, such as a little 5 year old kissed on the mouth another girl in her class. She said her mommie does it. It's not even 'safe' to allow children to go across the hall into school bathroom alone anymore. They are being approached by another student who thinks, 'it's okay.'

Each October, they now have in schools, 'Coming Out Week'... inviting teens who 'think' they are gay to come out into the open. This is becoming a very serious epidemic and it's being helped by lax attitudes that see this lifestyle as harmless.

It's no longer just in the 'bedroom'.

It's all over TV, magazines, promoting this as the norm and it's a mess. Teens have profiles on my space.com listing their sexual orientation as gay or bi. This is heart wrenching and nothing 'private' nor adults consenting.

It's not the Preachers who have made a big deal out of this, it's the media and we each have contributed to it in one way or another by looking the other way, thinking that it's not that big a deal. All the while, it's only getting worse.

 

[Ms Lala]

I agree that this is a very serious issue which is why I think the church need not handle it with hateful remarks and bad attitudes. Who wants to get to know a God that has ministers in the church who threaten physical violence and calls people unnecessary names from the pulpit. That would turn me off completely.

 

[Shimmie]

Hard subject for some bonafide straight men who are Pastors sometimes I think they let their emotions get to involved. But I do know some homosexuals go to Churches with the direct intent to sleep with the Pastor. I have notice that some really take offense to this and go all out to get the message to them. In one Church a homosexual was approach quietly about leaving the Pastor and other men alone but the guy would not quit; his attitude has make me. So this Pastor got up every Sunday and as you have said weaved it into his sermon until the guy left. Some homosexuals are determine to come to Church to pick up men and others are really trying to get delivered. I think we really have to pray for them and the Pastors because God only knows what is really going on. So sad about this problem in the church not good because we should always try to show love but if someone does not stop doing something some leaders seem to be going into a rage about it.

Ohhh, Star You are so right and I hesitated to share this only because I know of individuals personally who have been approached. I won't say anything more, because it may come across as 'anger' and not compassion. I will only say further that this is all the more reason why we have to remain alert from satan's deceptions.

Thank you for sharing this. You literally spoke my heart, but more the wisdom of God's woman, such as you are.

 

[Shimmie]

I agree that this is a very serious issue which is why I think the church need not handle it with hateful remarks and bad attitudes. Who wants to get to know a God that has ministers in the church who threaten physical violence and calls people unnecessary names from the pulpit. That would turn me off completely.

Ms. Lala, I totally agree. Cruelty in any sense is not acceptable. When we correct our children, we do it in love, not to abuse or to break their spirits. God says He corrects those whom He loves. He loves homosexuals, so in love we treat them.

Yet, sadly, there are stronger measures for those who are out to rebel or out to destroy another's life with their lifestyle. Tough love is in order.

 

[cocoberry10]

Hard subject for some bonafide straight men who are Pastors sometimes I think they let their emotions get to involved. But I do know some homosexuals go to Churches with the direct intent to sleep with the Pastor. I have notice that some really take offense to this and go all out to get the message to them. In one Church a homosexual was approach quietly about leaving the Pastor and other men alone but the guy would not quit; his attitude has make me. So this Pastor got up every Sunday and as you have said weaved it into his sermon until the guy left. Some homosexuals are determine to come to Church to pick up men and others are really trying to get delivered. I think we really have to pray for them and the Pastors because God only knows what is really going on. So sad about this problem in the church not good because we should always try to show love but if someone does not stop doing something some leaders seem to be going into a rage about it.

Really, that's crazy. The gay people I know wouldn't do anything like that. In fact, my gay male friends are so offended by the "D.L. Brothers," because they say that it makes people paranoid that all gay people are out there trying to "turn others out." I guess all my friends gay and straight, are respectful of one another. Everyone knows I love my Jesus , and they still respect that.

But I understand what you are saying. It's probably similar to females who try to seduce pastors, or pastors who try to seduce their young female parishoners . It's like Jesus said, we are in this world, but we should never be of it! Thanks for all responses.

 

[Shimmie]

Really, that's crazy. The gay people I know wouldn't do anything like that. In fact, my gay male friends are so offended by the "D.L. Brothers," because they say that it makes people paranoid that all gay people are out there trying to "turn others out." I guess all my friends gay and straight, are respectful of one another. Everyone knows I love my Jesus , and they still respect that.

But I understand what you are saying. It's probably similar to females who try to seduce pastors, or pastors who try to seduce their young female parishoners . It's like Jesus said, we are in this world, but we should never be of it! Thanks for all responses.

"Coco", you'd be surprised. It's only a plot of satan to bring down the man of God and to tear down his testimony for our Lord Jesus Christ.

My heart breaks to share this, but it's true. Very true. It's happening everyday. You know how there are women who 'go after' the Pastor? Well, sweet Coco, there are gay men who do this to, they agressively...very agressively and it's so very, very sad. Very sad and very scarey. For it's a plan to destroy God's man.

 

[Southernbella.]

First, I don't know when all those things you listed at the very top became accepted in the church. Many people in the church are guilty of many of the sins listed, but to this day they are NOT acceptable behavior. I haven't gotten the memo that the word of God changed as to what is now acceptable behavior among His people. Let's face it, people sin, whether in the church or not. Who's really shocked by any of that? The bible already told on all of them! We know these things happen among people who call themselves Christians! Poor Paul wrote letters to them until his fingers must have hurt like hell! Let God deal with them.

Secondly, someone in the church needs to be concerned about the homosexual agenda and speak up about it. Why not let it start here, with us? If the world at large wants to condone this behavior, that's up to them. But believers who know the word of God better stand up and let their voices be counted among those who speak against it. Remaining silent is no longer an option in this fight. The time to make your position known is now.

The reason this deserves our attention is because homosexuality is threatening the very foundation of what God intended for a real family to be, and slowly, without notice, our society is changing right before our very eyes. Who's paying attention? People are so busy trying not to offend anybody that morals are taking a back seat to people's feelings.

The other day on the radio, I heard that there are homosexual groups pushing for public schools to teach homosexual tolerence to our children, in some cases for children as young as 5 years old, and they really don't feel that parents should have the right to have a say in that. Why not? If two consenting adults want to indulge in homosexual activity in their bedroom, have at it. But that activity has spilled out into the streets, and into our society, and is affecting how people want us to think. Now that's a problem for me.

We can agree to disagree. If these things are so unnacceptable, why aren't churches holding rallies and marches about them? Why is it that in many churches (including my old one), an unmarried woman can stand up in front of the church and have her baby christened? Would you not call that accepting the sin?

And FWIW, I never said churches should be silent about this issue. My point is that churches should be just as passionate about other issues (OOW births, fathers abandoning their children, criminality, especially in our community) as they are about homosexuality.

As far as tolerance for homosexuals, well, that's not a bad thing. I don't want any child at any school thinking it's ok to harass another child because of something her parents do. That's wrong, IMo. Just because you teach a child that everyone deserves to be treated with respect doesn't mean you are telling them that they should be gay, too.

 

[Southernbella.]

Sadly, it's not that simple, it extremely shortsighted and biased to think that otherwise, for this is not remaining in the bedroom. God says, 'Your sin will find you out.' Look what's happening: Children are being approached with this lifestyle in schools everyday. And not just teens.

Young children are copying what they see going on in the home. I've had teachers share situations with me, such as a little 5 year old kissed on the mouth another girl in her class. She said her mommie does it. It's not even 'safe' to allow children to go across the hall into school bathroom alone anymore. They are being approached by another student who thinks, 'it's okay.'

Each October, they now have in schools, 'Coming Out Week'... inviting teens who 'think' they are gay to come out into the open. This is becoming a very serious epidemic and it's being helped by lax attitudes that see this lifestyle as harmless.

Yeah, it's horrible that 5 year olds kiss. It's horrible when boys do it to girls, and it's horrible when girls do it to girls. It's not WORSE that girls do it to girls. Five year olds shouldn't kiss, PERIOD.

Anyway, I'd rather people who think they are gay "come out". Maybe then there'd be less DL, and more honesty. Also, once someone is honest with themselves, God can work in their heart. That can't happen if they continue to deny their feelings.

Anyway, my bottom line is this...the church should have a voice in the issues we face in this day and age. I just think it's awful that they are missing the boat on so many more issues that need to be addressed, especially in our community.

But I understand what you are saying. It's probably similar to females who try to seduce pastors, or pastors who try to seduce their young female parishoners

You're not supposed to say that! You're supposed to say that it's WORSE when men do try to seduce the pastor.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

We can agree to disagree. If these things are so unnacceptable, why aren't churches holding rallies and marches about them? Why is it that in many churches (including my old one), an unmarried woman can stand up in front of the church and have her baby christened? Would you not call that accepting the sin?

And FWIW, I never said churches should be silent about this issue. My point is that churches should be just as passionate about other issues (OOW births, fathers abandoning their children, criminality, especially in our community) as they are about homosexuality.

As far as tolerance for homosexuals, well, that's not a bad thing. I don't want any child at any school thinking it's ok to harass another child because of something her parents do. That's wrong, IMo. Just because you teach a child that everyone deserves to be treated with respect doesn't mean you are telling them that they should be gay, too.

There are churches that rally and march on this issue, and others. They also hold conferences,too- is that enough?

That unmarried woman provided an innocent person life- what's the harm in that? Maybe she asked God to forgive her actions a long time ago, but since the sin is seen, the church should give her the cold shoulder? I don't think so. Just because others are celebrating her Christening doesn't mean they are condoning her actions that got the baby.

Have you been to all of the churches? Can you say churches aren't passionate about other issues in addition to homosexuality? I have visited churches that have 'sexual healing' conferences and they hit on all issues related to sex and as well I have been to others who preach love, love, tolerance, tolerance, don't offend, don't offend, ignore,ignore....etc.

Peebles, once again, you hit the nail on the head!

 

[pebbles]

We can agree to disagree. If these things are so unnacceptable, why aren't churches holding rallies and marches about them? Why is it that in many churches (including my old one), an unmarried woman can stand up in front of the church and have her baby christened? Would you not call that accepting the sin?

And FWIW, I never said churches should be silent about this issue. My point is that churches should be just as passionate about other issues (OOW births, fathers abandoning their children, criminality, especially in our community) as they are about homosexuality.

As far as tolerance for homosexuals, well, that's not a bad thing. I don't want any child at any school thinking it's ok to harass another child because of something her parents do. That's wrong, IMo. Just because you teach a child that everyone deserves to be treated with respect doesn't mean you are telling them that they should be gay, too.

Realistically, I don't know how the churches can be expected to have rallies about every sin committed. That's not even possible. How does one hold a rally against lying or glutony or cheating? All these things you mentioned above are wrong, and they've been clearly defined as being wrong. The pastors and the bishops preach against them every sunday. The same position is being taken about homosexuality. Yet this is where people are being labled as intollerant, and I think the church and it's people have a responsibility to stand up against it as they've done for all other sins. It's not about hating the sinner, it's about hating the sin.

I never said you said the church should be silent. I was making the point that the church MUST speak up about what the word of God says is wrong. I hesitate to speak about the church you came from because I don't know it. I'm in agreement with you that too many churches are letting things slide, and I have no doubt that the Lord is not pleased. But I can assure you that in MY church, the bishop is a no nonsense man, and no matter what is being done that isn't right, he stands tall and declares it, even if it's happening in his own family. People are called to walk a fine line in that ministry, and thank God that ours is not the only church that stands for the truth, no matter the cost. That's tough to do, but he does it, and that's the sort of teaching I sit under.

We can agree to disagree on tolerating the homosexual agenda. You have the right to offer them support. I can't do it. I don't believe in harrassing anyone who lives that lifestyle. I don't personally know people or a group that teaches that this is ok. But I don't want it shoved in my face like it's being done now.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

Yeah, it's horrible that 5 year olds kiss. It's horrible when boys do it to girls, and it's horrible when girls do it to girls. It's not WORSE that girls do it to girls. Five year olds shouldn't kiss, PERIOD.

Anyway, I'd rather people who think they are gay "come out". Maybe then there'd be less DL, and more honesty. Also, once someone is honest with themselves, God can work in their heart. That can't happen if they continue to deny their feelings.

Anyway, my bottom line is this...the church should have a voice in the issues we face in this day and age. I just think it's awful that they are missing the boat on so many more issues that need to be addressed, especially in our community.



You're not supposed to say that! You're supposed to say that it's WORSE when men do try to seduce the pastor.

Doubt it. Many of these DL men use 'oh no one will accept my lifestyle in the black community/churches' as a scapegoat to continue leading double lives. Heck, many of them deny being gay, so how would they come out? I think we need to stop treating DL men as the victim but instead the venom.

I also think the 'chuuch' is the scapegoat for so many issues in our community. It's so easy to blame the church, specifically the black church. Some of use tend to allow our issues begin and end with the church that we fail to see the fault in ourselves. As soon as someone gets outed, they can turn the heat off of themselves by getting others to blame the church. This is so tired.

 

[Southernbella.]

Doubt it. Many of these DL men use 'oh no one will accept my lifestyle in the black community/churches' as a scapegoat to continue leading double lives. Heck, many of them deny being gay, so how would they come out? I think we need to stop treating DL men as the victim but instead the venom.

I also think the 'chuuch' is the scapegoat for so many issues in our community. It's so easy to blame the church, specifically the black church. Some of use tend to allow our issues begin and end with the church that we fail to see the fault in ourselves. As soon as someone gets outed, they can turn the heat off of themselves by getting others to blame the church. This is so tired.

Actually, I don't blame the church at all (not saying you were referencing me). I don't expect anything from the church anymore. All I can do is stay in my Bible and teach my kids what God says.

I wasn't just referring to black men, BTW. There are plenty of DL white men. I was just speaking about those people who have the urges, or desires, for someone of the same sex. They can pretend they don't have them, have het relationships and get married, or they can acknowledge what they feel and be honest with themselves and/or their pastors and partners. If they want to change, they can go about it, and if they want to live their lives as gay people, then they can do that. But at least then, there might not be so much deceit, dishonesty, and confusion among those who are truly confused about what they are feeling. I know there are churches with ministries that specifically address this, and IMO, there should be more of that and less of the type of churches the OP was referring to.

We do agree on some of these DL black men though (JL King and his ilk). There is nothing anyone can do about them, because they are determined to live how they want with no regard to anyone else, be it their wives or their partners. They are selfish, stubborn, and evil. I have no sympathy or regard for them.