Delta Dumped Jet Fuel On A Bunch Of Elementary School Kids

Discussion in 'News - Breaking News & Political Forum' started by Black Ambrosia, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. Black Ambrosia

    Black Ambrosia Well-Known Member

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    Delta Dumped Jet Fuel on a Bunch of Elementary School Kids. What. The. Hell.

    The pilots may have dumped fuel at a lower altitude than permitted by the FAA.

    [​IMG]
    Children at six LA-area schools were back in class Wednesday, the day after dozens were drenched in jet fuel dumped from overhead by a Delta Airlines 777.

    But parents and local officials still want answers.

    The Boeing 777 plane dumped its fuel over southeast Los Angeles County as it made an emergency landing on Tuesday, hitting at least 60 people. The kids at Park Avenue Elementary in Cudahy, California, got it the worst.

    “You should have been here when it first happened,” Park Avenue parent Francisco Javier told the Los Angeles Times. “You couldn’t breathe it was so bad. It’s still strong, but not as bad as it was.”

    The FAA is investigating the incident.

    The children drenched at Park Avenue were forced to change into gowns after their clothes were soaked. Sixty total people, at least 20 of whom were children, were treated for skin irritations and breathing problems, according to the Times.

    “I’m very upset,” Cudahy Mayor Elizabeth Alcantar told the L.A. Times. “This is an elementary school, these are small children.”

    Alcantar pointed out the fuel was dumped over a predominantly Latino area.

    “Why is it always our communities having to deal with the brunt of these issues?” she said.

    Park Avenue Elementary fifth-grader Justin Guiti told CNN the fuel splattered all over him and got into his eye.

    "Drops of water were coming down. I thought it was a rainbow, and I looked up and it was gasoline," he said.

    Engine trouble
    Delta Flight 89 was scheduled to fly to Shanghai on Tuesday, but was forced to turn back shortly after takeoff when, according to the airline, the plane experienced an engine issue. But because it was loaded down with fuel for the 14-hour flight, it had to dump a bunch of that fuel to reach a safe landing weight.

    Video of the incident shows a plane streaking overhead, the fuel flying out in a long trail behind it.

    The plane landed without incident, but flight data shows it never climbed more than about 8,000 feet, which meant the dumped fuel didn’t get the chance to dissipate before reaching the ground.

    "There are special fuel-dumping procedures for aircraft operating into and out of any major U.S. airport," the FAA said in a statement Tuesday. "These procedures call for fuel to be dumped over designated unpopulated areas, typically at higher altitudes so the fuel atomizes and disperses before it reaches the ground."

    The flight on Tuesday lasted just 25 minutes after it reported an engine compressor had stalled, which can often trigger an engine failure. Passenger Tim Lefebvre told the L.A. Times he heard loud popping sounds and soon enough the plane was headed back to the airport.

    “It was kind of right next to me,” Lefebvre said. “I knew that wasn’t good. The pilot came on a couple minutes later and said we were going back to LAX, and that was that.”
     
  2. Kurlee

    Kurlee Well-Known Member

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    Disgusting. The health issues this may cause down the road... smh.
     
  3. Black Ambrosia

    Black Ambrosia Well-Known Member

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    It gets worse.

    ETA: Correction. I thought the fuel dump was unnecessary. Seems like the pilot didn't realize it was necessary until too late but didn't take the time to dump the fuel in an appropriate area.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  4. Black Ambrosia

    Black Ambrosia Well-Known Member

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    Delta pilot told air traffic control he didn't need to dump fuel

    Los Angeles (CNN) — A day after a Delta Air Lines plane dumped jet fuel over several Los Angeles schools, federal authorities said the pilots of Delta Flight 89 did not ask for approval to release the fuel as part of their emergency landing.

    Air crews will typically notify air traffic control of an emergency and indicate they need to dump fuel, the Federal Aviation Administration said. Air traffic controllers direct the plane to the appropriate fuel-dumping area.

    "A review of yesterday's air traffic control communications shows the Delta Flight 89 crew did not tell air traffic control that they needed to dump fuel," the FAA said in a statement.

    Delta spokesman Adrian Gee said the airline didn't have comment because the investigation is ongoing.

    According to the audio of the conversation between a Delta pilot and an air traffic controller, posted on the website LiveATC.net, the pilot said the flight would return to Los Angeles International Airport because one engine had compressor stalls.
    Pilot: "We've got it back under control. We're going to come back to LAX. We're not critical. We're going to slow to 280 knots, and uh, why don't you point us downwind at 8,000 feet (unintelligible) and we'll turn back to LA."

    Tower: "OK, so you don't need to hold or dump fuel or anything like that?"

    Pilot: "Uh, negative."


    The FAA also said the fuel dumping procedure did not occur at the optimal altitude that would have allowed the fuel to atomize properly.

    Fire crews treated 60 people after the fuel fell over five elementary schools and one high school Tuesday, said inspector Sean Ferguson of the Los Angeles County Fire Department.

    Children at six schools were affected by the fuel dump.


    Did this have to happen?


    The Boeing 777-200 was headed to Shanghai, China, Delta said. It had 181 people on board, according to radio traffic.

    "The aircraft landed safely after a release of fuel, which was required as part of normal procedure to reach a safe landing weight," the airline said.

    There are maximum takeoff and landing weights for aircraft, so for a plane with full fuel tanks to land, it must dump the fuel to avoid potentially crashing upon landing, said CNN aviation safety analyst David Soucie.

    After hearing the transmissions between the tower and the pilot, Soucie said, "The situation is a failure to communicate." The air traffic controller should have asked the question about holding or dumping fuel without using the word "don't," and he should have repeated the questions, Soucie said.

    The pilot said the engine was under control so he could have taken the plane over the Pacific Ocean to dump fuel or burn it off, Soucie, a former FAA safety inspector, said.

    Soucie said the pilots might have forgotten to dump the fuel until the final approach while doing a pre-landing checklist and discovered the weight of the plane was too heavy. And rather than go around the airport again to drop elsewhere, they might have decided to dump it over land.


    According to the FAA, which is investigating Tuesday's incident, there are special fuel-dumping procedures for aircraft operating into and out of major US airports.

    "These procedures call for fuel to be dumped over designated unpopulated areas, typically at higher altitudes so the fuel atomizes and disperses before it reaches the ground," according to the FAA.

    Had the plane been at 8,000 feet when the dump occurred, the fuel would never have hit the schools because it would be atomized after leaving the wings, Soucie said.

    It is "very rare (fuel is dumped) at a lower altitude where it reaches the ground," he said.



    Fuel has evaporated


    Those doused by the jet fuel were decontaminated with soap and water and did not need to be hospitalized, said Sgt. Rudy Perez of the Los Angeles School Police Department.

    Officials said Wednesday it was safe for children to return to the schools affected by the jet fuel.

    The children changed from their clothes and wore gowns.

    Park Avenue Elementary fifth grader Justin Guiti said the fuel sprayed all over him and got into his eye.

    "Drops of water were coming down. I thought it was a rainbow, and I looked up and it was gasoline," he said.

    Miguel Cervantes, a sixth grader, said his skin itched afterward.

    "I thought it was smoke, but when it went down, I felt it and it smelled like gas," he said.

    The affected schools had normal schedules Wednesday. All the jet fuel has since evaporated, the fire department said.

    "With the monitoring devices that we have, there are no explosive limits that are being detected at all, as well as solid or liquid products remaining," Los Angeles County Fire Department Battalion Chief Jason Robertson said.
     
  5. Kanky

    Kanky Well-Known Member

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    Poor kids. Delta needs to write large checks over this.
     
  6. brg240

    brg240 Well-Known Member

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    I hope these kids don't have any long lasting health problems
     
  7. ThirdEyeBeauty

    ThirdEyeBeauty Well-Known Member

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    Write checks and be done. I am confused though. Was this done to prevent the plan from crashing and killing those on board?

    ETA Air traffic control is not exactly at fault but I would appreciate confidence communication with the pilot and not "you don't need to uh maybe sorta hold or dump or something with the fuel? As a pilot whose adrenaline just went sky high, the question would have thrown me off. The ATC should have said the pilot needed to dump the fuel safely and circle around if necessary and repeat the statement for clarity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  8. HappilyLiberal

    HappilyLiberal Well-Known Member

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    If the plane crashed, having dumped the jet fuel minimizes the chances of a crash and burn.
     
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  9. ThirdEyeBeauty

    ThirdEyeBeauty Well-Known Member

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    I understand that part. I was confused by the immediacy of it. If it was not dumped then and there, the plane was going to crash?
     
  10. HappilyLiberal

    HappilyLiberal Well-Known Member

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    No... dumping or not dumping fuel will have no effect on whether or not the plane crashes. Dumping the fuel will only affect what happens after the plane crashes.
     
  11. ThirdEyeBeauty

    ThirdEyeBeauty Well-Known Member

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    What made the pilot choose that time and place of dumping the fuel?
     
  12. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ poor brown people? :look:
     
  13. ThirdEyeBeauty

    ThirdEyeBeauty Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ How would they know (unless familiar with the area perhaps)?
     
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  14. rabs77

    rabs77 Well-Known Member

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    https://m.youtub
    e.com/watch?v=mIA90evz8gs


    audio and tracking of the flight and communication with ATC for the nerds who care:grin:

    He was on final approach (straight shot to the runway) less than 10 mins from landing when he dumped the fuel. The most preferred place for him to have dumped the fuel was shortly after takeoff when he began communicating his concern with ATC, at that point he was over the ocean and at 8000ft. Once he turned back inland his options for dumping over unpopulated areas were very limited. He was still at 8000ft when he turned inland so it would have dispersed before hitting anyone. I think the pilot was not thinking far ahead enough, and by the time he got close to the airport it was “oh $$t I’m heavy” he probably hadn’t gotten to “dump fuel” on his checklist yet. Did he mean to unnecessary and purposely dump fuel over poor brown folks? No. It was poor situational awareness and planning. It was a last minute save that he realized was necessary to avoid a potentially dangerous landing. I’m guessing he may have initially thought he could land with the fuel, and last minute realized it was a bad idea. 15,000 gallons at about $8/gallon he might have thought in the beginning to save Delta a few bob.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  15. rabs77

    rabs77 Well-Known Member

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  16. Black Ambrosia

    Black Ambrosia Well-Known Member

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    Was there uncertainty about how long the engine would last? Why not go back up to 8000ft, dumb the fuel, then land? Does anyone know how much time that would've taken?
     
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  17. rabs77

    rabs77 Well-Known Member

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    This will all come out in the NTSB investigation. He said to ATC that he had things under control, but was returning to the airport anyway, rightfully so. Had he made the decision to request a fuel dump from the location he was at, he would have just had to fly over the runways (not land) go over the ocean dump and turn back around- same path as before- all that would have taken an additional 25-30 mins. If ATC decided to put him in a hold pattern somewhere that would add even more time.

    Not sure if y’all recall this incident with JetBlue and their damaged landing gear. They had no option to dump fuel so stayed in a holding pattern for a couple of hours to burn fuel before landing.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue_Flight_292
     
  18. michelle81

    michelle81 Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing one of the pilots (maybe both) were busy scrambling to make sure they landed safely. I'm just confused on how two pilots didn't think to dump the fuel before that altitude. Kind of makes me wonder how much training and preparation goes into scenarios like this. Somehow I thought dumping fuel for an unplanned landing was actually quite common due to medical emergencies, unruly passengers or possible mechanical issues. I feel sorry for those kids and their parents.
     
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  19. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

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    Thank you air goddess queen for gracing us with your knowledge- I was being my usual :moon: self when I proposed that loaded question.
     
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