How I Learned That Being West Indian Didn't Make Me Better Than African Americans

NijaG

Well-Known Member
She didn't say AA...she said they don't want claim black. That's different. We are definitely a different ethnic groups.

I'm guessing black also means AA in the context of what she wrote. I know black-american/AA are used interchangeably lots of times. My understanding is that African-American is the newer term used as the racial/ethnicity identifier for black people in the U.S. whose ancestors were part of the slaves and/or freed people of African origin from at least 150 years or more ago.
 

Amarilles

Well-Known Member
AA means black but black doesn't necessarily mean AA. I'm black, I'm American. I was born in DR and became American thanks to my parents becoming citizens, but clearly the AA ID would not apply to me.

This thread is all over the place, but I'm glad the writer of the article came to her senses. My own struggle was not thinking myself above AAs but simply denying my black, and living in Miami didn't help I guess. I woke up as soon as I left, when I moved to Canada. Thankfully not by racist wp but by the simple solidarity I felt around other black people. The attention I attracted was mostly black and so society naturally woke me up. Sometimes I wish I had stayed asleep though because the things that used to go over my head no longer do and boy, who got time to deal with white America's daily racism upsets? My family (with a few exceptions) is still stuck in their ways and it's sad to see.

Maybe there's indeed something to the notion of the "exotic" black..? My bestie here in France is from Burkina Faso and boooy does she have ish to say about the white French, yet she reports nothing but lovely experiences with white Americans. However me, as a black (American) person I've had not one negative experience in France. My friend has her explanation for that however, as she sees a difference between her black and the "bright brown" black folks of slave descendants.

And I too didn't know Haiti identified as WI?? I would've never guessed, and we share the island! :lol:
 

silverbuttons

Not Impressed
A couple of things...

1. Haitians are west Indian and Latino.
2. Black people (of all nationalities) want someone to look down on. That's what keeps us from mobilizing.
3. She changed her whole philosophy because of some white people?
4. We are way too busy trying to pull each other down to notice that this all stems from white supremacy.
5. Few Haitians love white people, but some have been damaged by years of occupation and white do-gooders.
6. Haitians were treated like viruses in the US... so I can imagine that some of the vitriol between the two communities stem from that.
7. The only way to work together is to acknowledge the pain of other black groups. If you keep dismissing their experience, of course they won't want to put in the work.


We seriously have had this conversation too many times... yet we still ain't learned ****.
 

MsSanz92

Well-Known Member
AA means black but black doesn't necessarily mean AA. I'm black, I'm American. I was born in DR and became American thanks to my parents becoming citizens, but clearly the AA ID would not apply to me.

This thread is all over the place, but I'm glad the writer of the article came to her senses. My own struggle was not thinking myself above AAs but simply denying my black, and living in Miami didn't help I guess. I woke up as soon as I left, when I moved to Canada. Thankfully not by racist wp but by the simple solidarity I felt around other black people. The attention I attracted was mostly black and so society naturally woke me up. Sometimes I wish I had stayed asleep though because the things that used to go over my head no longer do and boy, who got time to deal with white America's daily racism upsets? My family (with a few exceptions) is still stuck in their ways and it's sad to see.

Maybe there's indeed something to the notion of the "exotic" black..? My bestie here in France is from Burkina Faso and boooy does she have ish to say about the white French, yet she reports nothing but lovely experiences with white Americans. However me, as a black (American) person I've had not one negative experience in France. My friend has her explanation for that however, as she sees a difference between her black and the "bright brown" black folks of slave descendants.

And I too didn't know Haiti identified as WI?? I would've never guessed, and we share the island! :lol:

You raise a lot of interesting points I noticed myself. The "exotic Black" thing definitely exists not only in Europe but here in the States as well. For example, there are Black American men who say they don't like or date Black American women and bash them, yet go to places like the DR and Brazil to sleep with Afro-Latina women. You even see it here in NY where these same Black men place Afro-Latinas above AA women because they're "exotic". It's sickening quite frankly and continues to perpetuate the character assassination against AA women in particular.

I know a lot of Africans complain about racism they face in Europe, but in a weird way, AAs and other "more acceptable Blacks" like Caribbean Black people don't get the brunt as much from racism (I won't say that they're completely immune, because Europeans can be racist as hell against all Black, shoot any non-European person).

I never knew so many people didn't see Haitians as not West Indian; so if they weren't West Indian then what were they? They aren't considered Latino, even though they speak a Latin language. I pretty much lumped anyone who goes to the West Indian parade in NYC in large numbers as West Indian LOL. I actually went this past year and the Haitians definitely ran the show!
 

Topsido

Well-Known Member
I think the nuances of racism is lost on non AA blacks until they get entrenched in the American culture. It's hard to recognise what you don't know. Most immigrants know something is off but they think working harder will solve the problem until they're faced with the reality of racism.
 

ThirdEyeBeauty

Well-Known Member
Look how the wp train bp so well that they have black people of the Caribbean thinking someone from Haiti cannot be considered West Indian but someone from Belize or Honduras can be West Indian. It was black people sent to different parts of the Americas for the advantages of wp. West Indian is a made up word for generally bp. All that matters is people have different cultures and we can either choose to learn differences and similarities or not. How you react to those differences and similarities is on you.
 

kanozas

se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
I think we all (all colors) are "trained" from the past to view things a certain way. Look at "Indians." they are in India. Native Americans aren't Indians but it's on the treaty. People from India get mad they use the term. Meanings change. I guess if somebody is Dougla, they'd be West Indian in the Americas but even those have a hard time affirming their Indianness with their mother country. This isn't Hindustan over here and even "West Indian" is a misnomer.
 

Menina Preta

Well-Known Member
I am confused why people are investing so much significance into the label "West Indian" in regards to who is and who is not included. It is not the same type of label like African American. It's a label for people who come from the same geographical region who share cultural similarities, but are still distinct nationalities. Like I don't think any Haitian is losing sleep about some folks not considering them West Indian and I think most Haitians don't even care to use the term as an identifier. In my experience, it is usually folks from smaller islands or whose background includes a mix of different islands who use the term so they don't have to go into a long explanation about where they're from or have to hear someone say "oh I've never heard of that place. Is it like Jamaica?"

And I definitely do not think of Haitians as Latinos at all...
 

CaraWalker

Well-Known Member
What are you annoyed about though?

I thought the general consensus on this board by African-Americans was that you are a separate distinct group and their own ETHNICITY. Many here have said they don't feel a connection to "Africa" and some don't even want/like the African designation and prefer to be called Black-Americans.

Majority of the census forms I fill out say African-American/Black. When I check that box, I am mentally ticking the Black part of designation, because I consider AA's to be their own ethnicity. That is not a bad thing and AA's should be happy and proud of their ethnicity. All the racial groups have their own distinct sub-groups/ethnicities.

I'm Nigerian/American and my ethnicity is Igbo.

In Nigeria, if I'm mistaken for any other ethnic group (yoruba, efik, etc), I will usually correct the person and let them know I'm Igbo.
In another African or majority black country, if I'm taken as one of the locals, depending on situation, I let them know I'm Nigerian. If they are familiar with Nigeria, most will ask what group/ethnicity.
In the States..... it depends. With AA's, and other black groups the Nigerian parts comes into play as way to identify. With non-black and White people, if the conversation gets that far, then the Nigerian part comes into play. If not, they'll assume I'm AA.

Race is different than ethnicity. Same for nationality

i was with you until you got to the part about being nigerian american, which is LITERALLY a synonymous reiteration of "african american" :rofl: so that leads me to believe this is about a need to separate. i would not feel some kind of way if people mistook me for african but it seems yall would feel a need to correct someone if they date thought of you as "african american." you told it.
 

FemmeFatale

Well-Known Member
I am confused why people are investing so much significance into the label "West Indian" in regards to who is and who is not included. It is not the same type of label like African American. It's a label for people who come from the same geographical region who share cultural similarities, but are still distinct nationalities. Like I don't think any Haitian is losing sleep about some folks not considering them West Indian and I think most Haitians don't even care to use the term as an identifier. In my experience, it is usually folks from smaller islands or whose background includes a mix of different islands who use the term so they don't have to go into a long explanation about where they're from or have to hear someone say "oh I've never heard of that place. Is it like Jamaica?"

And I definitely do not think of Haitians as Latinos at all...

Thanks. I was starting to feel like I was in the twilight zone.
 

LeftRightRepeat

Well-Known Member
Yeah when i think W. Indian I think British West Indian (islands colonized by England). But if someone tells me that Haiti is W. Indian my only response is "oh, ok" . Always just thought of it as in the Caribbean, but tbh it doesn't really make a difference as to how I think of , or relate to Haiti and Haitians.

I lived in Miami for a long time so I was around a lot of Caribbean folk.
 
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CaraWalker

Well-Known Member
I think we all (all colors) are "trained" from the past to view things a certain way. Look at "Indians." they are in India. Native Americans aren't Indians but it's on the treaty. People from India get mad they use the term. Meanings change. I guess if somebody is Dougla, they'd be West Indian in the Americas but even those have a hard time affirming their Indianness with their mother country. This isn't Hindustan over here and even "West Indian" is a misnomer.

oh wow. "West India" was actually going right over my head this entire thread
Look how the wp train bp so well that they have black people of the Caribbean thinking someone from Haiti cannot be considered West Indian but someone from Belize or Honduras can be West Indian. It was black people sent to different parts of the Americas for the advantages of wp. West Indian is a made up word for generally bp. All that matters is people have different cultures and we can either choose to learn differences and similarities or not. How you react to those differences and similarities is on you.

yeah but its been politically incorrect to call natives "indian" for a long time now. we make a point of saying "native american" or "indigenous."
 

ThirdEyeBeauty

Well-Known Member
i was with you until you got to the part about being nigerian american, which is LITERALLY a synonymous reiteration of "african american" :rofl: so that leads me to believe this is about a need to separate. i would not feel some kind of way if people mistook me for african but it seems yall would feel a need to correct someone if they date thought of you as "african american." you told it.
I was thinking the same thing when I got to that statement. To me if you are black and moved to live in America, you have become a part of African American with heritages and cultural influences from elsewhere.
 

LeftRightRepeat

Well-Known Member
i was with you until you got to the part about being nigerian american, which is LITERALLY a synonymous reiteration of "african american" :rofl: so that leads me to believe this is about a need to separate. i would not feel some kind of way if people mistook me for african but it seems yall would feel a need to correct someone if they date thought of you as "african american." you told it.


I see where she's saying that with AA and other blacks it's obvious that she's not AA , so the Nigerian identifier comes into play. With whites and other non-blacks it may or may not come up because Whites tend to group blacks together and don't really see the differences.

I don't see where she's saying that she's trying to separate herself from AAs.

With me it's pretty obvious, (because of my accent)....i get the "where are you from" question from pretty much everyone..even another Jamaican :lol: ( i was shocked when she told me that I sounded like I was from Trinidad :lol:)
 

Menina Preta

Well-Known Member
Thanks. I was starting to feel like I was in the twilight zone.

Ya, it was odd. Inferring that by not including Haitians as West Indians that we are letting the White man tear us apart? Huh? Wha? LOL. Most Haitians just say "I'm Haitian," b/c it's a big country and most folks have heard of Haiti. Whereas for smaller islands, people sometimes just say "I'm West Indian" to avoid all the explaining and geography lessons, lol.
 

CaraWalker

Well-Known Member
I see where she's saying that with AA and other blacks it's obvious that she's not AA , so the Nigerian identifier comes into play. With whites and other non-blacks it may or may not come up because Whites tend to group blacks together and don't really see the differences.

I don't see where she's saying that she's trying to separate herself from AAs.

With me it's pretty obvious, (because of my accent)....i get the "where are you from" question from pretty much everyone..
what im saying is for me its not necessary to make a distinction because they are both technically accurate. i get asked where i am from from time to time as if im not from here. people thinking im from somewhere in africa is technically correct, so its not worth correcting. people assuming a black person is an african american even though their actual heritage is from an african country is also technically correct.

if somebody asked specifically then yeah i could see elaborating but if people are going "actually im nigerian" when someone calls them african american to me thats saying something...
 

Menina Preta

Well-Known Member
I see where she's saying that with AA and other blacks it's obvious that she's not AA , so the Nigerian identifier comes into play. With whites and other non-blacks it may or may not come up because Whites tend to group blacks together and don't really see the differences.

I don't see where she's saying that she's trying to separate herself from AAs.

With me it's pretty obvious, (because of my accent)....i get the "where are you from" question from pretty much everyone..even another Jamaican :lol: ( i was shocked when she told me that I sounded like I was from Trinidad :lol:)

Ya, I didn't see it either. She said if it comes up then she tells them. I do not see the big deal with doing that.
 

LoveisYou

Well-Known Member
i was with you until you got to the part about being nigerian american, which is LITERALLY a synonymous reiteration of "african american" :rofl: so that leads me to believe this is about a need to separate. i would not feel some kind of way if people mistook me for african but it seems yall would feel a need to correct someone if they date thought of you as "african american." you told it.
Could it be because she IS Nigerian, like from the country of Nigeria? Which would mean that her nationality is Nigerian, hence the term Nigerian American. I don't understand the confusion. Africa is more than just a continent, it's a group of countries, no?

If she wants to identify with her country, what's the big deal?
 

LeftRightRepeat

Well-Known Member
what im saying is for me its not necessary to make a distinction because they are both technically accurate. i get asked where i am from from time to time as if im not from here. people thinking im from somewhere in africa is technically correct, so its not worth correcting. people assuming a black person is an african american even though their actual heritage is from an african country is also technically correct.

if somebody asked specifically then yeah i could see elaborating but if people are going "actually im nigerian" when someone calls them african american to me thats saying something...

I didn't see that in her post...that she corrects people if they think she's AA, but ok.
 

CaraWalker

Well-Known Member
Could it be because she IS Nigerian, like from the country of Nigeria? Which would mean that her nationality is Nigerian, hence the term Nigerian American. I don't understand the confusion. Africa is more than just a continent, it's a group of countries, no?

If she wants to identify with her country, what's the big deal?
nigeria is in africa, which makes both terms correct. this inadvertently supports my point.

I didn't see that in her post...that she corrects people if they think she's AA, but ok.

which is why i said "IF"
 

CarmelCupcake

Well-Known Member
What are you annoyed about though?

I thought the general consensus on this board by African-Americans was that you are a separate distinct group and their own ETHNICITY. Many here have said they don't feel a connection to "Africa" and some don't even want/like the African designation and prefer to be called Black-Americans.

Majority of the census forms I fill out say African-American/Black. When I check that box, I am mentally ticking the Black part of designation, because I consider AA's to be their own ethnicity. That is not a bad thing and AA's should be happy and proud of their ethnicity. All the racial groups have their own distinct sub-groups/ethnicities.

I'm Nigerian/American and my ethnicity is Igbo.

In Nigeria, if I'm mistaken for any other ethnic group (yoruba, efik, etc), I will usually correct the person and let them know I'm Igbo.
In another African or majority black country, if I'm taken as one of the locals, depending on situation, I let them know I'm Nigerian. If they are familiar with Nigeria, most will ask what group/ethnicity.
In the States..... it depends. With AA's, and other black groups the Nigerian parts comes into play as way to identify. With non-black and White people, if the conversation gets that far, then the Nigerian part comes into play. If not, they'll assume I'm AA.

Race is different than ethnicity. Same for nationality

I am annoyed about the fact that in the past, she has talked about african american women, when she does not consider herself african american.
 

NijaG

Well-Known Member
I see where she's saying that with AA and other blacks it's obvious that she's not AA , so the Nigerian identifier comes into play. With whites and other non-blacks it may or may not come up because Whites tend to group blacks together and don't really see the differences.

I don't see where she's saying that she's trying to separate herself from AAs.

With me it's pretty obvious, (because of my accent)....i get the "where are you from" question from pretty much everyone..even another Jamaican :lol: ( i was shocked when she told me that I sounded like I was from Trinidad :lol:)

Thank you.... Cause I didn't feel like trying to explain further.

@CaraWalker see @LeftRightRepeat explanation above

ETA: Ok....I see you replied to @LRR, already. I grew up in both places, have a slight accent which sometimes raises questions.
If asked, I answer. If not, I don't care if someone thinks I'm AA.
 
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NijaG

Well-Known Member
I was thinking the same thing when I got to that statement. To me if you are black and moved to live in America, you have become a part of African American with heritages and cultural influences from elsewhere.

I'm confused.... So are you saying the AA/black-american term should just be used by all black nationalities amongst ourselves? I'm not talking about the wider white/non-black American society may view us.

If so, then what will be the term for U.S. black-americans whose ancestors where brought during the slave trade or the freed black people who settled here at least 150 years and more ago?

I gave an explanation above of how I and other non-AA see the AA/black-american term as its own ethnicity that is part of the wider black/African diaspora group.
 

ThirdEyeBeauty

Well-Known Member
I'm confused.... So are you saying the AA/black-american term should just be used by all black nationalities amongst ourselves? I'm not talking about the wider white/non-black American society may view us.

If so, then what will be the term for U.S. black-americans whose ancestors where brought during the slave trade or the freed black people who settled here at least 150 years and more ago?

I gave an explanation above of how I and other non-AA see the AA/black-american term as its own ethnicity that is part of the wider black/African diaspora group.
Don't mind me, I'm being hard on purpose. Black Americans are Americans. What do you call an African American who lived in Europe for 30 years and have children and grandchildren there?

I absolutely love learning about ethnicity, culture, and people's background but it can get out of hand when someone really just want to say they are now American. Now if we were in a circle talking I want to hear about all the countries and racial background of the person.
 

Femmefatal1981

Well-Known Member
I was thinking the same thing when I got to that statement. To me if you are black and moved to live in America, you have become a part of African American with heritages and cultural influences from elsewhere.
No...AA means something very specific. I can move to Nigeria and that doesn't make me Nigerian ethnically or culturally. So why would moving to the US make someone AA?
 
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