i need to know, was Jesus black, or not?

[Sweet C]

I can only go off what the bible states and that is he was a Jew and that he was not physically what we would consider beautiful (see Isaiah 53). So based on that he could physically have resembled almost any race today so I would never pinpoint Him to any specific race. I hear a lot of people use that scripture in Revelations to state that Jesus was black, but what you will rarely hear from such individuals is what the rest of that scripture states in context which reads from Rev 1:14-1:18 (KJV) is:

Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

So examining the scripture in proper context you will see that the passage has nothing to do with his actual color or race, but is describing His authority. In this vision of John the revelator he is not seen as the lamb of God (though there is some reference here i.e. hair like wool and white), but the Lion of the Tribe of Judah in his full authority. So bottom line is, does it really matter what color he is, he bleed and died so that all might have access to the tree of eternal life. Praise God for his sacrifice!!!!!

 

[Crown]

I know it is not a salvation issue (and I think it is the same for Princess me).
But I don’t understand why it does not matter that a lie has been associated with the Savior (the Truth).
If it does not matter, why lie?
Let’s consider the slavery period or the Crusades period, can someone say : it does not matter that they believe : He is white!?!
The truth always matters, for all of us.
A good debate :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d10imwhqO9I (5 parts)

 

[Crown]

Josephus the historian described the appearance of Jesus. You can read an online version of his ancient accounts. We have the image of His mother, Mary, as she appeared in Mexico. Not Black. Blacks did live in Jerusalem and Ethiopians made pilgrimage yearly to the Temple. The first convert was an Ethiopian and remember, "to the Jew first." That was the command to spread the good news...to the Jews first. The Ethiopian Eunuch...Jewish. Pagans had no concept of what the Jewish Messiah would be according to Jewish law.

Based (or not) on this verse and others in the Scriptures :
Jean 3.13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

How can you or someone else know for sure that it was Mary?

 

[princess me]

Josephus the historian described the appearance of Jesus. You can read an online version of his ancient accounts. We have the image of His mother, Mary, as she appeared in Mexico. Not Black. Blacks did live in Jerusalem and Ethiopians made pilgrimage yearly to the Temple. The first convert was an Ethiopian and remember, "to the Jew first." That was the command to spread the good news...to the Jews first. The Ethiopian Eunuch...Jewish. Pagans had no concept of what the Jewish Messiah would be according to Jewish law.

The mother of Jesus appeared in Mexico? Like after her death? Who says that was the real Mary? A Catholic?

I'm a bit confused by the rest of the post. Are Ethiopians Jews? Is this in reference to Ethiopians like in the Orthodox Ethiopian church?

 

[princess me]

Sweet C, I guess you have a point, perhaps that one passage shouldn't be used so literally. But that was the only one I knew off the top of my head. But I think there are other scriptures/passages in the Bible that say similar things, IDK the Bible that well to quote them instantly though

 

[chicacanella]

You are definitely not alone. I used to wonder the same thing. I think growing up here in America it is natural considering all of the pains that were taken to strip ppl of color of their dignity. What I can't understand is those still allowing that to happen to them now buterplexed, I digress. I began to pray and ask God about this very thing several years ago. For me, his response was to not focus on what color his skin was while he was here in the flesh. He specifically told me to concentrate on what his blood had done for me instead. Then he made me aware of a song called 'The Blood song' that I'd never heard of up until that point.
We know100% that he was not blond haired with blue eyes and oh so pale white skin. We also know why he was often depicted that way. The same reason good guys wear white and all that is scary, nasty, sad, and evil is represented by the color black. Slave owners and later the powers that be could not have positive upbeat intelligent slaves/blacks b/c they would not have any claim to the lies that they were somehow born superior. History repeats itself. The slave ships couldn't have been loaded down with ppl bound for the new world if Africans hadn't sold other Africans into slavery. The Europeans didn't know enough about Africa to go there and find ppl. They had help and planty of it. Those ppl made a small fortune. God was not pleased. You reap what you sow. Many of their decendants aren't faring well right now.
Slavery existed on every continent. This new world slavery was just extra barbaric though.
We also know that Jesus made it perfectly clear that his love and salvation were for all ppl. There were 12 original tribes of Israel. As time went by and they moved around some did marry Nubians or Ethopians. There are black Jews. Adam and Eve (who we all came from) were not white either. All biblical ancestors are usually depicted as white even though we know they were no where near Europe. I think that is why God says not to make graven images. That's why I do not have angels and pictures of God etc all around me. (Before anyone gets upset, if you do or don't no one is putting you in hades-ok.) Images sometimes cause strife over who is right and the focus on what matters the most (Loving God with all your mind, soul, strength, possessions. Loving your fellow man as you love yourself) is lost. Remember, divide and conquer is and always will be a simple but effective tool in the devil's repertoire.
Though the description in the bible makes it pretty clear Jesus was not fair skinned, he probably looked a lot like the ppl who currently live in the middle east right now. Many of which do have wooley, thick, curly hair and bronzey skin. They have not had a lot of mixing with outside cultures for quite some time and pretty much look the same.
All of God's children (not to be confused with his creations) can know the truth and be free. One of the main functions of the Holy Spirit is to lead us into the truth of all things. OP, Have you prayed and asked God about this topic? There is nothing wrong with your questions. I hope you find the truth of God concerning all of them.

John 16:13
13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

You know, as I was reading your post about what God told you, I heard the Holy Spirit saying, "she's right," and that he did reveal that too you. So, I'm glad you sought God on that because it blessed me and I'm sure, it will bless Princess and others to that have a spiritual ear to hear.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I always heard that Jesus might have been black but I never gave much thought to it. But recently, one of my friends told me about some scriptures in the Bible that describe features of Jesus that would make him black. For ex:

Revelations 1- he is described as having hair white as wool - white/Arab people dont have wooly hair, thats for sure. the passage also described him as having feet that looked like brass, like if they were burned in a furnace.

there are pictures of Russians, the Pope, Queen of England, and other dignitaries bowing down to images of a black Jesus

when Jesus was born and God told Joseph to go hide in Egypt, back then Egyptians were mostly black so if the family was white-looking, how could they hide? wouldnt they stand out?

Some say it makes no difference. It made a difference to a Pope who lost his son to death. Leonardo da Vinci paintied a picture of Caesar Borgere and that portrait became famous as Jesus Christ.
If you are a Catholic, you probably have the Apocrypha in your Old Family Bible. Check this out: If not here is the link to this scripture from the Wisdom of Solomon: http://thenazareneway.com/Wisdom of Solomon.htm

THE IMPACT OF IDOLS AND IMAGES ON THE HUMAN MIND

WISDOM OF SOLOMON

Chapter 14
The beginning of worshipping idols: and the effects thereof.
1 Again, another designing to sail, and beginning to make his voyage through the raging waves, calleth upon a piece of wood more frail than the wood that carrieth him.

2 For this the desire of gain devised, and the workman built it by his skill.

3 But thy providence, O Father, governeth it: for thou hast made a way even in the sea, and a most sure path among the waves,

4 Shewing that thou art able to save out of all things, yea though a man went to sea without art.

5 But that the works of thy wisdom might not be idle: therefore men also trust their lives even to a little wood, and passing over the sea by ship are saved.

6 And from the beginning also when the proud giants perished, the hope of the world fleeing to a vessel, which was governed by thy hand, left to the world seed of generation.

7 For blessed is the wood, by which justice cometh.

8 But the idol that is made by hands, is cursed, as well it, as he that made it: he because he made it; and it because being frail it is called a god.

9 But to God the wicked and his wickedness are hateful alike.

10 For that which is made, together with him that made it, shall suffer torments.

11 Therefore there shall be no respect had even to the idols of the Gentiles: because the creatures of God are turned to an abomination, and a temptation to the souls of men, and a snare to the feet of the unwise.

12 For the beginning of fornication is the devising of idols: and the invention of them is the corruption of life.

13 For neither were they from the beginning, neither shall they be for ever.

14 For by the vanity of men they came into the world: and therefore they shall be found to come shortly to an end.


NOW WHO DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF? Read carefully:

15 For a father being afflicted with bitter grief, made to himself the image of his son who was quickly taken away: and him who then had died as a man, he began now to worship as a god, and appointed him rites and sacrifices among his servants.

16 Then in process of time, wicked custom prevailing, this error was kept as a law, and statues were worshipped by the commandment of tyrants.

17 And those whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they brought their resemblance from afar, and made an express image of the king whom they had a mind to honour: that by this their diligence, they might honour as present, him that was absent.

18 And to worshipping of these, the singular diligence also of the artificer helped to set forward the ignorant.

19 For he being willing to please him that employed him, labored with all his art to make the resemblance in the best manner.

20 And the multitude of men, carried away by the beauty of the work, took him now for a god that a little before was but honored as a man.

21 And this was the occasion of deceiving human life: for men serving either their affection, or their kings, gave the incommunicable name to stones and wood.

NOTICE IT SAYS HERE THAT THIS IMAGE WAS 'USED TO DECEIVE MANKIND.'............
HAVE WE INTERNATIONALLY BEEN 'PERSUADED INTO SEEING CHRIST AS A 'CERTAIN COLOR' IN A PAINTING BY LEONARDO DA VINCI, AN ARTIST? HE MADE THIS PAINTING FAMOUS AND REVERED WORLD WIDE....OF CAESAR BORGERE WHOM MANY WORSHIP OR BOW TO KNEEL TO AND CALL 'JESUS CHRIST'.

22 And it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but whereas they lived in a great war of ignorance, they call so many and so great evils peace.

23 For either they sacrifice their own children, or use hidden sacrifices, or keep watches full of madness,

24 So that now they neither keep life, nor marriage undefiled, but one killeth another through envy, or grieveth him by adultery:

25 And all things are mingled together, blood, murder, theft and dissimulation, corruption and unfaithfulness, tumults and perjury, disquieting of the good,

26 Forgetfulness of God, defiling of souls, changing of nature, disorder in marriage, and the irregularity of adultery and uncleaness.

27 For the worship of abominable idols is the cause, and the beginning and end of all evil.

28 For either they are mad when they are merry: or they prophesy lies, or they live unjustly, or easily forswear themselves.

29 For whilst they trust in idols, which are without life, though they swear amiss, they look not to be hurt.

30 But for two things they shall be justly punished, because they have thought not well of God, giving heed to idols, and have sworn unjustly, in guile despising justice.

31 For it is not the power of them, by whom they swear, but the just vengeance of sinners always punisheth the transgression of the unjust.


http://thenazareneway.com/Wisdom of Solomon.htm

 

[kmn1980]

If Jesus' race doesn't matter, why the lie?

 

[Mahalialee4]

Ethiopians are from the lineage of HAM, who was the father of the Africans, (not the Negroes). There are four different families from Ham. The Hebrews are from Shem. Noah had three sons. Shem, Ham and Japheth.
During the time of the overthrow of Jerusalem, Hebrews fled from Jerusalem and the surrounding areas into Africa, so there are Hebrews living (among) the Ethiopians, and being called 'Ethiopians'. There are remnants of Hebrews scattered in Africa and to the four corners. Joseph who ruled in Egypt under the Pharoah, was mistaken for an Egyptian by his own brothers. Moses was raised as and believed to be an Egyptian, the son of the Princess, but he was a Hebrew. There were twelve tribes that formed the nation of Israel. The covenant blessings were handed down to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who was renamed Israel. The twelve sons of Jacob are the fathers or heads of the twelve tribes of Israel, that existed at times as two different kingdoms. The Northern and Southern kingdoms.
The Ethiopians and Hebrews obviously had a very close resemblance. It appears to be the same for the Hebrews and the Egyptians, because when Moses killed an Egyptian that was striking down a Hebrew, the defended stated that they had been defended and delivered by an 'Egyptian'.

 

[Mahalialee4]

It is really about rulership, power and wealth. Some will get it by 'any means necessary'.

1. Lies are meant to Deceive and Confuse: If you can confuse people about the nationality of Christ, then you can confuse people about the nationality of the Hebrews, the Israelites. This is really not a 'color' issue, but a 'nationality', a nation hood issue. Every man on earth comes out of a nation. Nations have boundaries, a country, land and varying degrees of wealth and power. If you can deceive a people into believing they are not who they are, and are someone else, and deceive the whole world, you can become who they are, claim what they have and basically steal their identity and all of the wealth that was intended for them.

2. Lies are used to CONTROL: You just have to keep every one confused, and under control with lies, and more lies. Why do you think that the names of countries keep getting changed, and people get pushed out of their countries, another group goes in and esto presto.......a thousand years later.....the people are a different color, speaking a different tongue, and the 'natives' have been marginalized or decimated? Of course they got it all in a fair fight, right? Or 'moral treaties' and 'mutually pursued and mutally beneficial contracts'? Look at the trail of carnage and degradation of the other half of the 'arrangements' and ask yourself...What have we not been lied to about? If they can convince us we came from monkeys, what does that say about us, being 'easily' susceptible to LIES!"

You realize that at one time all of America, North and South was once 'Indian Territory' and Texas and a lot of States, were Mexico. Hawaii was once an Asian Island of the Pacific and Alaska belonged to Canada. Now we have Canadians and Americans. And we call the 'original people', minorities, or 'immigrants' or 'refugees'. Now someone else is in power, and has control of the people, the land and its resources. They have the ultimate control. Their own enforced laws, military power, and guns, and the network support of their fellow liars around the world.

Remember, Israel was once Canaan, Egypt was once Misraim. Iran was once Persia. Iraq was once Babylon. Would you be surprised to hear that the intent is to make Iraq and Iran, British - American? How did America get Hawaii, and Iraq? You do the research!

You cannot make this stuff up. We are living it.

 

[Mahalialee4]

THEY said a lot of things about King James 'to discredit him.' Including that he was homosexual. I will pull up the Preface to the King James Bible. You might find it enlightening. By the way. He was a black man, in spite of the white wash of his pictures. He sat on three thrones of Europe simultaneously. They did not tell you that did they? There is a reason.

Does this sound like how slanderers are depicting him? MAKE SURE TO READ IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO THE BOTTOM!
("The Epistle Dedicatory")
The Translators of the Bible wish Grace
TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE
JAMES
BY THE GRACE OF GOD
KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND,
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, &c.
The Translators of the Bible wish Grace, Mercy, and Peace
through JESUS CHRIST our Lord.


Great and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many who wished not well unto our Sion, that, upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth, of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this land, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk, and that it should hardly be known who was to direct the unsettled State; the appearance of Your Majesty, as of the Sun in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the Government established in Your Highness and Your hopeful Seed, by an undoubted Title; and this also accompanied with peace and tranquility at home and abroad.

But among all our joys, there was no one that more filled our hearts than the blessed continuance of the preaching of God's sacred Word among us, which is that inestimable treasure which excelleth all the riches of earth; because the fruit thereof extendeth itself, not only to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that eternal happiness which is above in heaven.

Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it; nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a man, in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty's loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person, who, under God, is the immediate author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe that the zeal of Your Majesty toward the house of God doth not slack or go backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that Man of Sin as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing father.

There are infinite arguments of this right Christian and religious affection in Your Majesty; but none is more forcible to declare it to others than the vehement and perpetuated desire of accomplishing and publishing of this work, which now, with all humility, we present unto Your Majesty. For when Your Highness had once out of deep judgment apprehended how convenient it was, that, out of the Original Sacred Tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our own and other foreign languages, of many worthy men who went before us, there should be one more exact translation of the Holy Scriptures into the English Tongue; Your Majesty did never desist to urge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the Work might be hastened, and that the business might be expedited in so decent a manner, as a matter of such importance might justly require.

And now at last, by the mercy of God, and the continuance of our labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby, we hold it our duty to offer it to Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal mover and author of the Work; humbly craving of your most Sacred Majesty, that, since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of ill-meaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is; whose allowance and acceptance of our labours shall more honour and encourage us than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God's holy truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self-conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by the truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity as before the Lord, and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty's grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and Christian endeavors against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

The Lord of heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days; that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great GOD, and the good of his Church, through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Saviour.

(cont'd)to follow
Translators to the Reader: Tells what was really going down and you will understand why he was maligned.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/Preface

 

[Mahalialee4]

Regarding the 'King James was a Mason' thing.

Half the men and many women are masons. All the elite men, and the preachers and the politicians are Masons of some order or branch. That Organization has a long trail back and a long trail in front. What we really need to look at is WHEN AND WHO took over the organization to become as we see it today. The same ones who now control and have taken over the top positions of religion, politics, the banks, education and the media, medicine and pharmaceuticals and research, entertainment and law, and have inflitrated every area of society. A lot of people on this board and on this site, have family that are Masons, way back and now. I think you get my point.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I can only go off what the bible states and that is he was a Jew and that he was not physically what we would consider beautiful (see Isaiah 53). So based on that he could physically have resembled almost any race today so I would never pinpoint Him to any specific race. I hear a lot of people use that scripture in Revelations to state that Jesus was black, but what you will rarely hear from such individuals is what the rest of that scripture states in context which reads from Rev 1:14-1:18 (KJV) is:

Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

So examining the scripture in proper context you will see that the passage has nothing to do with his actual color or race, but is describing His authority. In this vision of John the revelator he is not seen as the lamb of God (though there is some reference here i.e. hair like wool and white), but the Lion of the Tribe of Judah in his full authority. So bottom line is, does it really matter what color he is, he bleed and died so that all might have access to the tree of eternal life. Praise God for his sacrifice!!!!!

What do you believe the color of that would be?
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace..." Have you ever seen fine brass that was burned in a furnace? or even brass that was left unpolished and cleaned.....like the old brass door knobs that tarnished?

or the Hebrews in the book of Lamentations 'that were black unto the ground'? I have got to run and check my Dead Sea Scroll Bible. Later.

Okay: Lamentations 4: 7, 8
"Her rulers were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk; their bodies were more ruddy than coal, their polishing was as of sapphire. 8. Their appearance is blacker than coal; they are not known in the streets. Their skin has shrivelled on their bones, it is withered, it has become like wood."

The Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 586 B.C.E. Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated into English 1999

 

[Mahalialee4]

You deserve the fullest answer I can give you.
Black people’s skin tones come in varying shades of 'BLACK'. Check your family, black friends and you will see it is so. Adam was formed from the dust of the ground. How many colors of dust of the ground are there?

• Job commenting on his skin:…
Job 30:30: “My skin is *black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.”
Jeremiah 8:21: “For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am “black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.

Jeremiah 14:2: “Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are *black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up.” (Judah is one of the twelve tribes) Christ is called ‘The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, because he was born out of that tribe. (what color is dirt of the ground?)
Lamentations 5:10 “Our skin is ‘black like an oven because of the terrible famine."

Solomon and His Wife: Song of Solomon: 1:5 “I am *black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon. 6 Look not upon me, because I am *black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother’s children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept”
Song of Solomon 4:1 “1Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy *locks: thy hair is as a flock of *goats, that appear from mount Gilead. 2Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.

Apostle Paul: They thought he was an African. (Ethiopian)
Acts 21:36-40: “37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said, Canst thou speak Greek? 38 Art not thou that EGYPTIAN, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers? 39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. 40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying…”

Amos 9:7: 7 “Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up ISRAELout of the land of EGYPT? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir? "
Moses “Ethiopian Wife”: Her color was NOT THE PROBLEM: The issue was that Moses was a LEVITE from the tribe of Levi, a Hebrew, an Israelite and had taken a foreign wife: It was a commandment issue!
Numbers 12:1 “And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the ETHIOPIAN woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.” (The Africans were considered ‘strangers’, ‘foreigners’, pagan idolaters and Moses had married outside of his nation) compare:

Ezra 10:14 “Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.”
Ezra 9:1 After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, "The people of Israel, including the PRIESTS AND THE LEVITES, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites..verse …12Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.
Exodus 1:1 “These are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob. 2Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, 3Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, 4Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. 5And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. 6And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation. 7And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them

YES. JESUS WAS BLACK, FROM THE NATION OF ISRAEL, TRIBE OF JUDAH, born in Bethlehem, Judea
Hebrews were varying shades of black without European inbreeding.
Hebrews are not Africans who are born from HAM, but there are some 'so called' Africans who are actually Hebrew, due to fleeing into Egypt and assimilating into the African culture, just as there are Hebrews in America and all around the world, Diaspora.

Zondervan Bible Dictionary
"Ham;
Born 96 years before the flood, 1 of 8 to survive, became father of the dark races, EXCEPT FOR THE NEGROES…"

 

[princess me]

Mahalialee4, thanks for all that information, I have a lot to read through today and I will come to a final conclusion regarding this.

but how do we know that King James was black? and how can people accurately follow the history of the Hebrews?

 

[Laela]

OP,
What matters most is what do YOU believe?
I sincerely pray that you come to terms in your spirit on whom Jesus really is and like, Peter, you are fully persuaded.

God bless

MATTHEW 16[/I]
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. -

 

[Mahalialee4]

Mahalialee4, thanks for all that information, I have a lot to read through today and I will come to a final conclusion regarding this.

but how do we know that King James was black? and how can people accurately follow the history of the Hebrews?

RESEARCH

For me. personally, it is not a color issue but a 'truth' issue.
Why would Scripture mention color, or nationality? I guess it mattered that we know.

A Book You Might Want To Check Out re:
'Nature Knows No Color Line' to check out King James. You will see a picture of his son, his grandmother and mother type pictos in the coats of arms, obviously black with Afros. If you really want to research it out, there's more info out there. But Start With That Book. I will check for you where to get it from.
King James succeeded Queen Elizabeth I to the throne of England.
A lot of history has been 'blacked out.' Have you wondered why they really called it the 'Dark Ages' and then suddenly there was 'enlightenment'? That was a time when blacks ruled in Europe, The Dark Ages.

There You Go.
The Book Nature Knows No Color Line
http://www.africanbookstore.net/proddetail.asp?prod=NF3119

You Might Find Some Information on this tape because it contains some historical perspective
1 KING JAMES WAS BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoQUFGrCULk&NR=1&feature=fvwp
2 KING JAMES WAS BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gzDWftlAg&feature=related
3 KING JAMES WAS BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ORa7_e9Ij0&feature=related

You of course can continue to further Research to satisfy yourself as I did re: King James
You can accurately follow the History of the Hebrews, through Bible Prophecy, and Historical documents. There is a lot of it available. The geneology, where they settled, and where they were scattered to is stated clearly in different Scriptures. Down to where the tribes ended up in North and South America etc. Keep checking things out for yourself. You will be rewarded.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[Guitarhero]

Based (or not) on this verse and others in the Scriptures :
Jean 3.13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

How can you or someone else know for sure that it was Mary?

I understand that there are diff. denominations on here and it is not that I do not have an answer, I do, but my point was not particularly that specific issue. Thing is, there are icons that are very accurate. There are paintings that the apostles did (well, one...St. Luke) and His mother was not Black. There have always been "holy" images that have been kept. Depends upon where you are in christendom as to personal access to those. That is not something that I will argue about - those differences. Just want to say that many people have personally seen Jesus, many people, no matter their ethnicity nor religion.

 

[Crown]

I understand that there are diff. denominations on here and it is not that I do not have an answer, I do, but my point was not particularly that specific issue. Thing is, there are icons that are very accurate. There are paintings that the apostles did (well, one...St. Luke) and His mother was not Black. There have always been "holy" images that have been kept. Depends upon where you are in christendom as to personal access to those. That is not something that I will argue about - those differences. Just want to say that many people have personally seen Jesus, many people, no matter their ethnicity nor religion.

Dear Volver, let’s remember this :
1 Cor. 7.23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

Let’s do this :
1 Thes. 5.21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
And this :
Act. 17.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Let’s not forget this :
Rom. 14.12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Shalom!

 

[Ivonnovi]

I KNOW HE DID NOT HAVE LONG BLOND HAIR, BLUE EYES AND A PALE WHTIE COMPLEXION.

I believe that he was of the darker complexion.

OP I get the point of your curiosity, because our children are bombarded with this errenous picture of Jesus, and it is very deceiving. VERY!

 

[chicacanella]

I KNOW HE DID NOT HAVE LONG BLOND HAIR, BLUE EYES AND A PALE WHTIE COMPLEXION.

I believe that he was of the darker complexion.

OP I get the point of your curiosity, because our children are bombarded with this errenous picture of Jesus, and it is very deceiving. VERY!

That's why it's important to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Anytime I want to know something, I just ask him and wait for the answer. He's just that close but that comes with cultivation of a relationship. It comes with sincere worship, praise and a strong prayer life. I could sit here and listen to Mahaliee or anyone else on this thread when they say something but if I'm not sure about something, I just ask God. Most of the time the Holy Spirit is speaking to me while I'm reading because he knows what I'm thinking.

But again, the way not to be misled is to know Him, not just the bearing of His name. But really talk to God, ask him questions, and hear him talk back to you.

 

[Poohbear]

The term "Black" is just a social construct based on dark pigmentation of skin. There is no such thing as "Black" people back during Jesus' time.

And about Revelations 1:14 - it is NOT saying Jesus' hair was like wool... it is saying his head and hair was white like wool, in other words, his head and hair was the color of wool. BUT this verse does not mean Jesus was of the "White" race as we see today. You must keep in mind that Revelations uses a lot of symbols, similies, and metaphors to represent other meanings.

 

[Ivonnovi]

\/ \/ All of that is "nice". But that part of that mentality is what kept US on the plantation for generations. WE were mislead for generations into worshiping the "wrong interpretation of Jesus and Christianity".

To know Jesus as "intimately" as you do, you had to have good leadership and sound answers, many of which was provided by the leaders who lead you in your faith.

The OP posted a question that is important to her & her walk. I posted about the negative longterm effect of images of a caucasion looking Jesus.
Society see's a long stringy haired caucasion man (with a beard) and we think ....he looks like Jesus Christ; we see a loc'd hair'd man or an unkempt fro and we're apalled; not once thinking ...he looks like John the Baptist! (LOL a lil'humor, but true). Perhaps this is why Islam is so dead set against images of Mohammed.

As you type about the peace that comes with cultivating a relationship with Jesus, do not forget that this is the same Jesus that went into the Temple and overturned table/chairs and whatever else because there was "some wrong doing" going on there, the same Jesus that challenged his "step-father" at the age of 12, and the same Jesus whose Disciples were troubled with nuiances of their walk with him right up till the last day.

SO WHEN someone asks a ? about Chrisitanity; answer/address their issue, direct them to sound scriptures or a trusted source, or tell them you do not know, BUT DO not respond with "you need to get to know him......". That might work with your spiritual peers, but not for the everyday inquiring soul.

That's why it's important to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Anytime I want to know something, I just ask him and wait for the answer. He's just that close but that comes with cultivation of a relationship. It comes with sincere worship, praise and a strong prayer life. I could sit here and listen to Mahaliee or anyone else on this thread when they say something but if I'm not sure about something, I just ask God. Most of the time the Holy Spirit is speaking to me while I'm reading because he knows what I'm thinking.

But again, the way not to be misled is to know Him, not just the bearing of His name. But really talk to God, ask him questions, and hear him talk back to you.

 

[chicacanella]

\/ \/ All of that is "nice". But that part of that mentality is what kept US on the plantation for generations. WE were mislead for generations into worshiping the "wrong interpretation of Jesus and Christianity".

Ivonnovi, it's actually more than "nice." I really can't describe any words of how good it is to really know Jesus Christ. I'm also trying to understand how my post led you to believe that it is "part of the mentality is what kept US on the plantation for generations." What I am telling the OP is that, if you are confused about something and want to know how Jesus looked, just ask him. How is that misleading?

To know Jesus as "intimately" as you do, you had to have good leadership and sound answers, many of which was provided by the leaders who lead you in your faith.

Could you please tell me why you are putting intimately in quotations? But to answer your response, I actually did not have good leadership and sound answers. Pretty much the opposite which is why I advocate knowing Jesus and hearing him for yourself. My relationship with Jesus came out of a struggle...I didn't have anyone to go to and ask questions. It was just me, the bible concordance and googling questions like, "love, God and biblical scriptures." Honestly, when you say my relationship was formed out of good leadership, it was me listening to others that led me to go through 2 years of wilderness. I know the effects of having your life on hold because a pastor told you this and you believed him...or you trusted someone in the church and took advantage of you. Now, I'm not saying you can't trust people in the church but if I want to know should I trust someone, I ask God now.

The OP posted a question that is important to her & her walk.
I understand that the OP wants to know this question, but honestly she will get mixed reviews depending on who she talks too. I'm telling her this out of love, because anyone can take scriptures or research and present them in anyway they please. It still wouldn't answer her question if she was confused to whether she should believe this or that person. She needs to know the truth and to clarify the matter, asking God would tell her the answer.

How do you feel about simply asking God questions when different people are telling you different things?

I posted about the negative longterm effect of images of a caucasion looking Jesus.
Society see's a long stringy haired caucasion man (with a beard) and we think ....he looks like Jesus Christ; we see a loc'd hair'd man or an unkempt fro and we're apalled; not once thinking ...he looks like John the Baptist! (LOL a lil'humor, but true). Perhaps this is why Islam is so dead set against images of Mohammed.

I didn't see your post about the neative longterm effects of seeing a caucasoid -looking Jesus. I simply know from basic knowledge that God is a God of Truth, Jehoval El Emeth and anything that skews the truth is not of God. When I've seen Jesus in my dreams, after fasts most of the time, he was very slim, not anyway you would call him overweight and when I looked at the back of his hair, it was medium to dark brown and wasn't cut short or anything. And if this helps the OP in anyway, his hair was bushy, kind of like a 3c/d afro fluffed out. But it was bushy and I remember saying to myself, "Jesus has bushy hair!"

But see, I don't want anyone to just take my word for it. For all you know I could be a lier. Even though I'm not lying, how would anyone know? I just want people to know the truth and for me, my testimony is that being able to talk to him got me out of a lot of situations. I would sit and ponder how I was going to tell my old supervisor this, or how to tell someone that and then God just told me and it was the perfect answer. I thought, "Wow, all this time I've been trying to figure out the answer and you told me in two seconds flat. Thanks God!"

I'm not sure about the Muslim religion.

As you type about the peace that comes with cultivating a relationship with Jesus, do not forget that this is the same Jesus that went into the Temple and overturned table/chairs and whatever else because there was "some wrong doing" going on there, the same Jesus that challenged his "step-father" at the age of 12, and the same Jesus whose Disciples were troubled with nuiances of their walk with him right up till the last day.

Could you help me understand or break it down further the connection between you stating the different occurences of Jesus' life and the rest of your post?

I'm not sure if it is me, but the undertone of your post seem as if you are angry about something or soemthing I stated? I really didn't intend to make you angry and if so I offer my sincere apologies. Please, do not go to bed angry as we know it gives the devil a foothold. I think we should try to focus on life really not being about us but moreso about Jesus. I could learn something from you and you possibly from me. How about that?

And you know, I always had this idea of Jesus as being something so off from what he actually is. I mean, he is so real and I know it sounds strange to say, but to me he wasn't real before. He is very forward and bold. Bold is the word. He would tell me to do something and command as if he already knows I will follow what he says. I mean, I didn't evn know all of this stuff because for years I was a "Christian" but didn't know him. It is so great to really know who he is now and I know in my journey I'll know him even more.

SO WHEN someone asks a ? about Chrisitanity; answer/address their issue, direct them to sound scriptures or a trusted source, or tell them you do not know, BUT DO not respond with "you need to get to know him......". That might work with your spiritual peers, but not for the everyday inquiring soul.

Actually, I believe my post was very appropriate as I asked God before posting and he said it was acceptable. I'm just taking direction from him. If you go throughout the thread, you will see that the OP seems slightly confused. Of course, God is not the author of confusion. Stating that having a close relationship with Jesus Christ is actually answering and adressing their issue. I don't know how much direct you can get than going to God himself. I'm stating what I would have hope to have known years ago instead of being misguided by leadership. So, years ago I was that everyday inquiring soul but no one told me what I am telling the OP.

Please, help me understand where you are coming from because even though people state it alot, knowing Him can change your destiny forever.

 

[Mahalialee4]

THE CONFEDERACY NATIONS HAVE DIVIDED US INTO 'BLACK' AND WHITE'. There is no such thing as a 'white person', either. We have no problem however referring to them as 'white'. However we all realize what is meant by the terms 'black' and 'white'. Today, we are referred to as 'black' and it has many 'symbols, siilies and metaphors' attached to it. But the skin color, is not an illusion. It is real.

 

[Sweet C]

What do you believe the color of that would be?
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace..." Have you ever seen fine brass that was burned in a furnace? or even brass that was left unpolished and cleaned.....like the old brass door knobs that tarnished?

or the Hebrews in the book of Lamentations 'that were black unto the ground'? I have got to run and check my Dead Sea Scroll Bible. Later.

Okay: Lamentations 4: 7, 8
"Her rulers were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk; their bodies were more ruddy than coal, their polishing was as of sapphire. 8. Their appearance is blacker than coal; they are not known in the streets. Their skin has shrivelled on their bones, it is withered, it has become like wood."

The Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 586 B.C.E. Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated into English 1999

All am I stating is that we must take the scripture in proper context. Not just take out the one part that we like and use it to justify the race of Christ, which based on this scripture is still not given, when the context of the passage had nothing to do with his race, but with his authority. yes, I understand that burnt bronze gives off a dark color but once again this is dealing with his authority not his color.

I am not saying that Christ may not have had a dark skin tone, b/c thats possible. I am saying I can't definitively state that based solely on this scripture in its proper context and the truth is that is doesn't matter. Would I love him less if he was or wasn't? No, b/c he died so that ALL might have life and it more abundantly.

 

[Jynlnd13]

...........................

 

[brg240]

I do not think Jesus was Black/African and he definitely wasn't white/European. Jesus was a middle eastern Jewish person.

I wouldn't use that 'Jesus' hair was like wool' to explain that Jesus was black because the same verse said that his head was white like wool. I don't know many black people with white faces.... I think that's more a spiritual description honestly.

The popular picture of Jesus is based on one of the Pope's sons. Anyway people didn't star depicting him until hundreds of years after his resurrection. :\

 

[Mahalialee4]

The people have been moved around, and changed, and the maps have changed. Back in Jesus time, if you check the ancient maps....would you find a Middle East? Would you find that Europe is in Asia? So much has changed, that you cannot go by who is in the "Middle East Today". Really eye opening when you check out those old maps!

 

[brg240]

The people have been moved around, and changed, and the maps have changed. Back in Jesus time, if you check the ancient maps....would you find a Middle East? Would you find that Europe is in Asia? So much has changed, that you cannot go by who is in the "Middle East Today". Really eye opening when you check out those old maps!

I'm confused by your statement. The 'Middle East' is a European concept so of course it wouldn't be on there. A pretty new one at that. (Of course not the land area or people but the term Middle East)
When I said Middle East I meant a Semitic person.