I Want Christian Responses to This... 'Thanks in Advance'

[Shimmie]

Romans 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."


God tells us to search the scriptures for ourselves & learn what is true and what isn't.

I'm not going to argue with precious Shimmie or anyone else whether one can be born gay or not for I am confident in what I have learned as a believer in Christ and have seen people get redeemed from, including homosexuality. And, I am sure I am not the only one who has ever seen a little boy with homosexual tendencies who was too young to even make the choice, that idea in itself is one to ponder over or shall I say meditate.

The Holy Spirit is a precious friend, teacher, leader, guide & if sought he will reveal to us the absolute truth on matters as tender & tough as these.

Blessings to you!

Thanks Ladybelle and I do understand what you are saying. AND....... I appreciate what you are saying.

Look at this....

There are many spirits [gemerational curses] which follow the generations and will lay themselves upon our children...unless they are broken.

All the more reason, we dedicate our children unto the Lord, while they are still in the womb.

When we see a child who presents a gay characteristic, this is a 'spirit' which is moving through the child, not the child's DNA. satan's influence sends the family into a spin of 'denial', or they accept it and allow this spirit to take over.

The only entrance any spirit has it operation is through a body; and when we see it manifested in a child, it means they were not 'covered' and the enemy has laid himself upon the child and is operating through the child's central being...the child's soul.

Has anyone been aware that many children talk to imaginary friends? There are spirits in 'high' places ... familiar spirits who follow our children from the moment they are conceived, and different spirits from different generational curses rest themselves lying in wait to become the controller of the child's soul.

We read the news everyday and see and hear of the most horrific things that children have done. Why is that? A spirit has been 'speaking' to that child misleading them into the most bazarr of behaviours.

Is a child born gay? No argument Lovely one... no argument at all. There is a spirit which has attached itself to that child and is manifesting the traits of homosexuaity through him/her. Hence 'it appears' they were born that way. Hence it 'appears' the child discovers they are 'different' at a young age. This is the spirit of deception which has taken over not the child's DNA.

You know what? I've been re-reading and doing a study on the Soul from the Bible, itself. And this is soooooooo powerful. The Bible has the answers. And the only reason that folks wnat to exclude it is because they will have to admit that what they are fighting for is wrong.

There is a 'track record' of the different spirits which followed the generations of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and so on and so on. The daughthers of Lot (Abraham's cousin)... Oh my goodness! The seed (the children) that they brought forth, had with it a whole string of seducing spirits which followed the generations to come.

Let me stay on track...

My point is that I understand what you are saying; No argument loved one.

Just sharing what it is that makes it seem so.

 

[Guitarhero]

How about a demographic danger with all the consequences for the mankind?
I mean if you take all gay people and put them on an island and all lesbians and put them on another island, what would we have?
No reproduction, no generation!!!

[FONT=&quot]I understand your concerns, [/FONT]Volver_Alma_Gitana[FONT=&quot], but as believers, we have to stand by the Will of YHWH as Shimmie did, not to reason with non believers because this is what Eve did and we know the consequences.[/FONT]

Where are they? It's not about reasoning with non-believers, nor judging anybody...remember, that is not my church culture. But a letter to a legislator should provide hard facts. I'm simply asking where they are. It's rather ridiculous to suggest that an entire population will "become" gay. I'm talking about actual, factual disadvantages to those in traditional marriage is same-sex marriage is granted full status and rights. Where are the presentable facts for legislators? They don't make laws based upon "pastor X says..." They just don't. But they do listen to valid public concerns that are backed up by evidences of harm done. The spiritual realm is not the business of my government as it's up to me. However, public safety etc...that's the real of government. If some are so against same-sex and know that the way to get to their legislators is to organize a certain way, then why are they not doing so? Just blaming someone for not holding the same religious beliefs is ineffective, imho.

As far as being born with the tendency...the human being is so complex, christians don't have the definitive answer because G-d hasn't given one on WHY it happens. He just gives us guidelines on how to live. Obviously, He knew it would happen beforehand. When we make up reasons, isn't that relying upon emotions...the same argument used against the LGBT community?

 

[Prudent1]

Actually, it's not quite the answer I was asking because if one presents this to a legislator, it's not going to carry very far. But if someone makes a list of tangible and measurable losses and/or disadvantages to bring before their elected officials, it might carry further is what I mean. The spiritual aspect of this is rather personal, imho...but when devising laws to protect all citizens, I don't see how it can be based upon someone else's religious interpretation. Gays are also in churches and believe in G-d. For those who don't, they are not knocking down the doors to get in so referencing their souls is not what they are concerned about. That's the spiritual realm you're speaking of, which I can certainly comprehend from your point of view.
.

"Gays are also in churches and believe in G-d." This is true. They should be in church. Attending and not leading but in church so they (like the rest of us) can hear the word and be transformed continually. I will quote these scriptures and move on to my next point.
James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
A belief in God in and of itself is not sufficient otherwise they^^^would be able to enter in.
1Cor 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Ok, now on to the other stuff. I think you have made a valid point. I am not attacking you or anyone else. I have gay relatives, friends, co-workers, you name it. I love them all. I do not love their actions/ behaviors.
I understand what you are saying about the most effective way to reach politicians and the lack of concrete lists showing the detriments of equating relationships between same sex partners as equal to a marriage. I think the point @Shimmie and others here were trying to make is this...
-> In the end, what is the most important(thing) part of us? You pointed out truthfully that we are more than just souls and we indeed are. We are spirits. At this point in time we are living in bodies. We have souls. We will never not exist somewhere. So the point is, God loves and is concerned about the soul's final location. Any kind of distraction that comes along and causes lost focus on what should be happenening (ppl clearly seeing the Love of God displayed in a manner that causes them to be drawn to him and salvation obtained) regardless to what form the distraction takes on will cause tangible eternal casualties. We don't need any research to document the ramifications. History does that. What if we are half wrong (let's play devil's advocate for a moment)? The half that's lost will be eternally lost. Eternally lost souls, that's a big hairy deal! It is wrong to twist or manipulate the truth of God's word to suit one's purpose even though we all have at some point or another. It is wrong to create confusion (God is not the author of confusion) by teaching future generations to accept what God has said in his word is wrong as acceptable-period. List or no list. There is nothing new under the sun. All of the previous great societies eventually fell. Some have been completely annihilated as payment for their tolerance. From Sodom and Gomorrah, Greece, Rome, Eqypt, Babylon, Persia, Germany, you name them- all fell when morality went out the window. Read documentation from them. Not recent historians but the words of ppl who actually lived during the times. The word of God stands eternal. His words will accomplish the tasks he sent them to accomplish. Any society that gets so intellectually advanced until they don't need God will be humbled and or destroyed. Who can box with the Almighty? For a time God winks at man's ignorance but then the time to pay the piper comes & or.
IOW, forget sexual orientation for a moment. It and all of its spinoff topics are but distractions. If you give an inch to the devil he'll desensitize you slowly but surely and take foot after foot after precious foot. The line of compromise will always be constantly redrawn. The boundaries of what is acceptable will constantly be pushed further and further and not on the side of what God has said either. Just look at the middle east's history up to now... Before you know it you are lukewarm:kneel: and leaving a foul taste in the mouth of God. What happens when the time comes where their souls are required? It is all spiritual. Everything at its core has to do with the battle raging between good and evil in the spirit realm. We are in the matrix right now looking through that dim mirror. What we are saying to you is that you make a good point but, don't lose focus of the more monumental things.
Mark 8:36
36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?
Matt 10:28
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:5
5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
1 Cor 13:12
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Eph 6:12
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Psa 90:12
12 Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.

Eph 5:8-17
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.” 15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.

"...
it's HARD for me to say.. GAY PEOPLE ARE EVIL DOWNLOW HEATHENS
when they have been the group of people who have LOVED AND SUPPORTED ME AND ENCOURAGED ME AND ACCEPTED ME when everyone else did not.. I find myself in a quandary and I've prayed about it..

You are seeking God. So, you will get your answers. @Shimmie made a great point. You may be the only true glimpse of God's love they will ever see. God is love. Love them:heart2:. Sometimes we are planting seeds, sometimes we are watering and helping to remove weeds (lies, hurt, deceptions, old wounds)but God does the drawing closer part.
@makeupgirl already said it, I just wanted to reiterate anyone who said this or had this mentality I would give a serious side eye to>>GAY PEOPLE ARE EVIL DOWNLOW HEATHENS. Since when are called to bash and belittle? Test them, those clutching a bible but spewing garbage and venom. Just b/c I say I am a Christian does not make me one. If I walk into a skinhead meeting and announce myself as a white male of Aryan decent that won't make it so. We know the Christian by the fruit they bear. Not just the public fruit neither- nuh uhh, but the fruit behind closed doors...


ETA: An excerpt from Ritchie Righteous' song Who you represent?
"Everybody now a days be marching in the movement.
some ain't gon like what I'm saying in my song
cus they be marching for the right to do what is the wrong.
Abortion is a sin. Homosex is a sin.
And if you were born that way then you can be born again."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xOH2Xxwax8

 

[SmileyNY]

The "true" meaning of marriage is a lot of things aside from being between a man and a woman. It is also supposed to involve unconditional & eternal love. Last forever. Absolutely no adultery. The "true" meaning of marriage is for reproduction, so technically every married couple should have children... and they should ONLY have children with each other. After all, one of the reasons that marriage was initiated was so that a man could ensure the paternity of his children.

So, my question is... knowing all of this, why do we allow so many straight couples to trample over the "true" meaning of marriage, yet many consider the between a "man & woman" "rule" to be unbreakable. The "true" meaning of marriage has already be trampled over, changed, and dissected. It isn't sacred anymore. People have children out of wedlock, people divorce, people cheat. The fact that all of these people are allowed to marry, changes the "true" meaning of marriage.

Personally, I feel that love should prevail overall. If two adults feel that they love each other and are able to decide on their own free will to commit to a marriage, they should be allowed to do so. Even if they have children out of wedlock, even if those children are with other people, even if they decide not to have children at all, even if they end up getting divorced, even if they are gay. Period.

 

[Guitarhero]

" I think the point @Shimmie and others here were trying to make is this...
-> In the end, what is the most important(thing) part of us? ..... So the point is, God loves and is concerned about the soul's final location. Any kind of distraction that comes along and causes lost focus on what should be happenening (ppl clearly seeing the Love of God displayed in a manner that causes them to be drawn to him and salvation obtained) regardless to what form the distraction takes on will cause tangible eternal casualties. We don't need any research to document the ramifications. History does that. What if we are half wrong (let's play devil's advocate for a moment)? The half that's lost will be eternally lost. Eternally lost souls, that's a big hairy deal! It is wrong to twist or manipulate the truth of God's word to suit one's purpose even though we all have at some point or another. It is wrong to create confusion (God is not the author of confusion) by teaching future generations to accept what God has said in his word is wrong as acceptable-period. List or no list. There is nothing new under the sun.

One cannot legislate salvation and it's not my business if the person next to me is a baptist, methodist etc. Now, if there is a detriment, then I should present the facts. This is where I often see christian communities failing when it comes to law time. They rely upon emotion when they could present a concrete argument but retort, "G-d said." G-d is not voting in the bill and someone's spiritual reality is not going to be that of another. Where are the facts that pertain to everyone? Even He doesn't force beliefs on anyone. However one interprets the scriptures, it's beside the point when dealing with government. Thank G-d for that because there are examples like Afghanistan, Algeria and Iran who essentially have theocratic govts. and everyone is miserable, except for the extremist supporters reaping benefits. This country is not a christian-only entity and even within the said population of believers, there is incredible diversity.

As far as history documenting immorality being the fall of society, I'd say that the sheer numbers of "christian" men and women who have children out of wedlock and commit crimes have nothing to do with the quantity of gays in society. Those are heterosexuals and they are killing themselves with their own immorality. A gay next door doesn't make Quaneshia down the street have sex with DaKwon at her high school and make a baby, then come to church the following Sunday and for 10 years post proclaim holiness when the fact is that she was immoral AS A CHRISTIAN BELIEVER. That's only an example.

If we look at the detriments to drug use and oow births, we have tangible complaints and concerns backed by evidence. Abortion? Concrete facts based upon studies. The effects of same-sex parenting is still being studied. That is why I say it's so very complicated. Basically, it's prejudice and fear without many presentable evidences that fuels anti-same-sex marriage.

I truly need to see the facts. People can talk all day long about the bible...it's going in one ear and out the other. Why? I'm catholic...and don't hold onto protestant teachings. Jews don't hold onto mine and etc. If I were a legislator, I would feel some kinda way if a constituent accused me of turning my back on G-d. I don't think he's done this (no offense to you, Shimmie...it's just an example) and I believe, from his communication to his constituents, that he's attempting to do the right thing and be just to all. We might not agree with the existence of certain people in society but we do not have the right to discriminate against them. I realize that my arguments might be seen as contrary but they aren't, really. I'd never vote in anybody to a body of government due to his religious beliefs. I need a fair and balanced person who utilizes his talents and wisdom for the benefit of all members of society, however they came about. Religion is NOT how government works. I just don't see it.

 

[Shimmie]

The "true" meaning of marriage is a lot of things aside from being between a man and a woman. It is also supposed to involve unconditional & eternal love. Last forever. Absolutely no adultery. The "true" meaning of marriage is for reproduction, so technically every married couple should have children... and they should ONLY have children with each other. After all, one of the reasons that marriage was initiated was so that a man could ensure the paternity of his children.

So, my question is... knowing all of this, why do we allow so many straight couples to trample over the "true" meaning of marriage, yet many consider the between a "man & woman" "rule" to be unbreakable. The "true" meaning of marriage has already be trampled over, changed, and dissected. It isn't sacred anymore. People have children out of wedlock, people divorce, people cheat. The fact that all of these people are allowed to marry, changes the "true" meaning of marriage.

Personally, I feel that love should prevail overall. If two adults feel that they love each other and are able to decide on their own free will to commit to a marriage, they should be allowed to do so. Even if they have children out of wedlock, even if those children are with other people, even if they decide not to have children at all, even if they end up getting divorced, even if they are gay. Period.

Hi Smiley Thank you for coming in to share you heart. I mean this sincerely as it is opening the path to understanding this issue all around.

I know that it seems that if a man and woman, have failed in marriage, then allow gays to have it. Yet that is not the answer.

If I eat an orange that is of bad quality, this doesn't mean that I can change it into an apple. An orange will will always be an orange no matter what. One bad orange does not make all oranges bad nor does it qualify it to be dismissed from being an orange.

We know that heterosexual marriages have experienced failure and it is because of a lack of respect for it and homosexual marriage is simply the ultimate of disrespect for the pure meaning of marriage. It's truly an insult to holy matrimony.

Gay relationships are not more stable than heterosexual relationships. In fact it is proven that the fidelity and promiscurity rate of homosexual activity is far higher.

What's happening is that gays are coming in with the heterosexual divorce rate as an excuse and waving a flag of mockery, which is not a validation to support their cause.

Loved one... feelings come and go.

Just because a gay person wants to 'marry' because they 'love' someone, does not make it valid. What they feel is not the same as what a man and a woman feel.

What they feel are 'same sex' attractions and it is not the same as the love between a man and a woman, which therefore does not give just cause for them to have the same priviledges of marriage.

Thanks again for sharing... :Rose:

 

[Shimmie]

One cannot legislate salvation and it's not my business if the person next to me is a baptist, methodist etc. Now, if there is a detriment, then I should present the facts.

This is where I often see christian communities failing when it comes to law time. They rely upon emotion when they could present a concrete argument but retort, "G-d said." G-d is not voting in the bill and someone's spiritual reality is not going to be that of another. Where are the facts that pertain to everyone? Even He doesn't force beliefs on anyone. However one interprets the scriptures, it's beside the point when dealing with government. Thank G-d for that because there are examples like Afghanistan, Algeria and Iran who essentially have theocratic govts. and everyone is miserable, except for the extremist supporters reaping benefits. This country is not a christian-only entity and even within the said population of believers, there is incredible diversity.

As far as history documenting immorality being the fall of society, I'd say that the sheer numbers of "christian" men and women who have children out of wedlock and commit crimes have nothing to do with the quantity of gays in society. Those are heterosexuals and they are killing themselves with their own immorality. A gay next door doesn't make Quaneshia down the street have sex with DaKwon at her high school and make a baby, then come to church the following Sunday and for 10 years post proclaim holiness when the fact is that she was immoral AS A CHRISTIAN BELIEVER. That's only an example.

If we look at the detriments to drug use and oow births, we have tangible complaints and concerns backed by evidence. Abortion? Concrete facts based upon studies. The effects of same-sex parenting is still being studied. That is why I say it's so very complicated. Basically, it's prejudice and fear without many presentable evidences that fuels anti-same-sex marriage.

I truly need to see the facts. People can talk all day long about the bible...it's going in one ear and out the other. Why? I'm catholic...and don't hold onto protestant teachings. Jews don't hold onto mine and etc. If I were a legislator, I would feel some kinda way if a constituent accused me of turning my back on G-d. I don't think he's done this (no offense to you, Shimmie...it's just an example) and I believe, from his communication to his constituents, that he's attempting to do the right thing and be just to all. We might not agree with the existence of certain people in society but we do not have the right to discriminate against them. I realize that my arguments might be seen as contrary but they aren't, really. I'd never vote in anybody to a body of government due to his religious beliefs.

I need a fair and balanced person who utilizes his talents and wisdom for the benefit of all members of society, however they came about. Religion is NOT how government works. I just don't see it.

Volver... in case you haven't noticed, the fair and balanced folks in Congress have made a huge mess out of our legislation... They are not Christians, and they are not following Jesus.

So...your votes have been in vain.

Okay... you asked valid reasons, there are many which far out number validating gay marriage.

I've been studying this for a long, long time.

Here is a portion from one of my studies which I'd like to share:

--------

The Dangers of Same-Sex 'Marriage'

What’s the harm?

" ....how gay “marriage” will affect this trend, we need look no further than Scandinavia.

According to Stanley Kurtz in the Weekly Standard, Scandinavia has had gay “marriage” for over a decade.

During that time it experienced a 25 percent increase in co-habitation and unmarried parenthood, resulting in a 60 percent out-of-wedlock birthrate in some Scandinavian countries.

In addition, studies compiled by Peter Sprigg and Timothy Dailey show that children raised by gay couples risk a 50 times higher incidence of incest, a two times incidence of domestic violence, and perform worst in nine out of twelve social and academic areas, as compared to children in other family types.

Thus, the results for the gay “marriage” experiment are in: By further elevating the desires of adults over the needs of children, gay “marriage” widens the gap between marriage and the stable nurture of the next generation.

Has the blight of heterosexual divorce undermined the welfare of families and children? Sadly, yes. But that is no justification to redefine marriage, or sanction other family configurations that deepen the problems of fatherless homes, single-parent moms, and at-risk children.

“[T]he lives of millions of adults and children will judge us harshly for not learning the marriage redefinition lesson the first time. People get hurt deeply when you tinker with the essential nature of marriage…” -- Glenn T. Stanton

Regis Nicoll is a freelance writer and a BreakPoint Centurion.

------------

I have more.... You know I do.

 

[SmileyNY]

Hi Smiley Thank you for coming in to share you heart. I mean this sincerely as it is opening the path to understanding this issue all around.

I know that it seems that if a man and woman, have failed in marriage, then allow gays to have it. Yet that is not the answer.

If I eat an orange that is of bad quality, this doesn't mean that I can change it into an apple. An orange will will always be an orange no matter what. One bad orange does not make all oranges bad nor does it qualify it to be dismissed from being an orange.

We know that heterosexual marriages have experienced failure and it is because of a lack of respect for it and homosexual marriage is simply the ultimate of disrespect for the pure meaning of marriage. It's truly an insult to holy matrimony.

Gay relationships are not more stable than heterosexual relationships. In fact it is proven that the fidelity and promiscurity rate of homosexual activity is far higher.

What's happening is that gays are coming in with the heterosexual divorce rate as an excuse and waving a flag of mockery, which is not a validation to support their cause.

Loved one... feelings come and go.

Just because a gay person wants to 'marry' because they 'love' someone, does not make it valid. What they feel is not the same as what a man and a woman feel.

What they feel are 'same sex' attractions and it is not the same as the love between a man and a woman, which therefore does not give just cause for them to have the same priviledges of marriage.

Thanks again for sharing... :Rose:

Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the ULTIMATE betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?

Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was REALLY "preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...

 

[Guitarhero]

Volver... in case you haven't noticed, the fair and balanced folks in Congress have made a huge mess out of our legislation... They are not Christians, and they are not following Jesus.

So...your votes have been in vain.

Okay... you asked valid reasons, there are many which far out number validating gay marriage.

I've been studying this for a long, long time.

Here is a portion from one of my studies which I'd like to share:

--------

http://www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/archive/12489-the-dangers-of-same-sex-marriage
" ....how gay “marriage” will affect this trend, we need look no further than Scandinavia.

According to Stanley Kurtz in the Weekly Standard, Scandinavia has had gay “marriage” for over a decade.

During that time it experienced a 25 percent increase in co-habitation and unmarried parenthood, resulting in a 60 percent out-of-wedlock birthrate in some Scandinavian countries.

In addition, studies compiled by Peter Sprigg and Timothy Dailey show that children raised by gay couples risk a 50 times higher incidence of incest, a two times incidence of domestic violence, and perform worst in nine out of twelve social and academic areas, as compared to children in other family tion.

------------

I have more.... You know I do.

Well, why didn't you say you did? I've heard it both ways and there is a govt. study on incest...I aim to get that stat and ask my sociologist friend about it. I'm not sure it's elevated simply with gay parents. People have this notion that a gay couple turn their desires on the child. What about heterosexuals?

Anyhoo, I don't care if the govt. is run by christians...I truly don't care. My faith is personal...very personal. I don't force it on anyone else. Protecting life? That's another story and people are defin. responsible for standing up for life. It can be a slippery slope of sorts. But whether someone is a christian in govt., not my worry. I only need them to run the govt. There is a universal model of morality and protection of life the world over. That came from G-d. Specifics of religious beliefs, I don't look for those in leaders because I believe in the separation of church and state as I do not like interference. But I respect your opinion.

 

[Guitarhero]

Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the ULTIMATE betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?

Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was REALLY "preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...

Shimmie as well....
I got distracted and forgot that point. There was one senator who proposed making divorce much tougher. I can't remember who that was or his state but I don't think it was based upon his religious beliefs, rather upon social problems of divorce. I thought it might be an interesting point. Thanks for mentioning that.

 

[makeupgirl]

makeupgirl.... Thank you for sharing this in Truth with God's Word and most of all.... in love. :Rose:

Your post is very gentle speaking God's truth.

Thanks Ms. Shimmie.

 

[makeupgirl]

Romans 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."


God tells us to search the scriptures for ourselves & learn what is true and what isn't.

I'm not going to argue with precious Shimmie or anyone else whether one can be born gay or not for I am confident in what I have learned as a believer in Christ and have seen people get redeemed from, including homosexuality. And, I am sure I am not the only one who has ever seen a little boy with homosexual tendencies who was too young to even make the choice, that idea in itself is one to ponder over or shall I say meditate.

The Holy Spirit is a precious friend, teacher, leader, guide & if sought he will reveal to us the absolute truth on matters as tender & tough as these.

Blessings to you!

No worries Ladybelle...we're all sisters here and it's cool we can come here to fellowship with one another in love.

 

[Shimmie]

Well, why didn't you say you did? I've heard it both ways and there is a govt. study on incest...I aim to get that stat and ask my sociologist friend about it. I'm not sure it's elevated simply with gay parents.

People have this notion that a gay couple turn their desires on the child.

What about heterosexuals?
Anyhoo, I don't care if the govt. is run by christians...I truly don't care. My faith is personal...very personal. I don't force it on anyone else. Protecting life? That's another story and people are defin. responsible for standing up for life. It can be a slippery slope of sorts. But whether someone is a christian in govt., not my worry. I only need them to run the govt. There is a universal model of morality and protection of life the world over. That came from G-d. Specifics of religious beliefs, I don't look for those in leaders because I believe in the separation of church and state as I do not like interference.

But I respect your opinion.

I'm glad you asked ...'What about heterosexuals?'

Only a sexual deviant would sexually molest a child. And there are scores upon scores of so-called heterosexuals who commit homosexual molestation acts upon their 'sons', nephews, neighbor's son.... ?????

Heterosexuals? I've heard way too many homosexuals and pro-gays, proclaim that any man who performs a gay act is gay in denial or D/L . erplexed

See this is how the gays argue their cause. They change it back/forth from hetero to homosexual to find just cause.

However, I do not like making gays look like the big bad wolf any more than I would want that for non-gays. That is not my point here neither my reason for this thread. I still respect them as human beings... for human they are.

The bottom line is that gay marriage is not justified no matter what 'reasons' are given. In order to justify such, it must be placed on the same level and definition as that of a man and a woman and there is absolutely no comparison in any means.

The gay agenda is solely based upon having 'same gender sex' accepted as the 'norm' which is not valid for legislation.

 

[Guitarhero]

Just because a gay person wants to 'marry' because they 'love' someone, does not make it valid. What they feel is not the same as what a man and a woman feel.

What they feel are 'same sex' attractions and it is not the same as the love between a man and a woman, which therefore does not give just cause for them to have the same priviledges of marriage.

Thanks again for sharing... :Rose:

Yes, they do, especially when they love the soul of that person. But that's beside the point of your thread, though. Do you have a committee together? You know, if I had it to do all over again (impossible..cuz this is where I was supposed to be at this point in time), I would have done government and run for tribal council.

 

[Prudent1]

Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the ULTIMATE betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?

Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken... And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was REALLY "preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...

ITA w/ the bolded. I don't think these other marriage offenders are lesser sins b/c they are committed by heterosexuals. They do all go against the true meaning of marriage. I think we were responding on the issue of homosexual relations b/c of Shimmie's OP. I do think divorces etc are too easy to come by.

Volver_Alma_Gitana
"One cannot legislate salvation" very true (nor morality) otherwise we would not have free will. I respect your opinion and your desire to see some other form of data supporting another view. I hope that we can agree that each believer's walk is different even though the final destination is the same. I operate under the premise that I don't have to know or understand everything to accept the fact that the 'thing' itself may not be good, pleasing to God. Oftentimes for me the Holy spirit fills in the gaps of what is not explicity stated. That is the nature of our relationship- I ask, he leads me to truth. It's the his ways are higher than my ways line of thought...

 

[Guitarhero]

I'm glad you asked ...'What about heterosexuals?'

Only a sexual deviant would sexually molest a child. And there are scores upon scores of so-called heterosexuals who commit homosexual molestation acts upon their 'sons', nephews, neighbor's son.... ?????

Heterosexuals? I've heard way too many homosexuals and pro-gays, proclaim that any man who performs a gay act is gay in denial or D/L . erplexed

See this is how the gays argue their cause. They change it back/forth from hetero to homosexual to find just cause.

However, I do not like making gays look like the big bad wolf any more than I would want that for non-gays. That is not my point here neither my reason for this thread. I still respect them as human beings... for human they are.

The bottom line is that gay marriage is not justified no matter what 'reasons' are given. In order to justify such, it must be placed on the same level and definition as that of a man and a woman and there is absolutely no comparison in any means.

The gay agenda is solely based upon having 'same gender sex' accepted as the 'norm' which is not valid for legislation.

That's interesting because I saw a report on this and they say that pedophiles are not homosexuals...a category unto themselves...a gay act is with an adult. It wasn't through a gay agenda... psychologists. They just commit same-sex sexual crimes but the target is a child, male or female. Being a sexual deviant as in a criminal or dangerous person is not the same as being gay. I don't want to make you uncomfortable...but it's just physically sex. Shrugs. We're using the term as something dangerous...by force upon someone who is young/doesn't wish it. Two consenting adults ... they are consenting. It's also been around for a very long time in history so that's another consideration in the meaning of that term. I think there needs to be a distinction between danger and difference. Gays are not walking around having desirous feelings towards children. Example? Mothers have children. She has boys and girls. When her sons reach near adulthood, does an Oedipus complex evolve naturally? No.

Marriage...I'm wondering if there is an alternative name with the same social benefits afforded where marriage can be defined as between a man/woman and gay rights are afforded with like-status.

 

[Crown]

Where are they? It's not about reasoning with non-believers, nor judging anybody...remember, that is not my church culture. But a letter to a legislator should provide hard facts. I'm simply asking where they are. It's rather ridiculous to suggest that an entire population will "become" gay. I'm talking about actual, factual disadvantages to those in traditional marriage is same-sex marriage is granted full status and rights. Where are the presentable facts for legislators? They don't make laws based upon "pastor X says..." They just don't. But they do listen to valid public concerns that are backed up by evidences of harm done. The spiritual realm is not the business of my government as it's up to me. However, public safety etc...that's the real of government. If some are so against same-sex and know that the way to get to their legislators is to organize a certain way, then why are they not doing so? Just blaming someone for not holding the same religious beliefs is ineffective, imho.

As far as being born with the tendency...the human being is so complex, christians don't have the definitive answer because G-d hasn't given one on WHY it happens. He just gives us guidelines on how to live. Obviously, He knew it would happen beforehand. When we make up reasons, isn't that relying upon emotions...the same argument used against the LGBT community?

It’s not ridiculous, Volver_Alma_Gitana, it’s a picture. Let me tell you that this picture helps to save many gays from their lifestyle (but I agree that they were already in Church).

The key of my post : reproduction.
I think our leaders can understand this point.
But In this case, I would prefer to stand by my personal spiritual conviction.

For example, how to explain to others that prayers are important?


Smiley82, marriage is not just a contract, it’s a covenant made by the Most High (not by humans).
The meaning of marriage is very very profound and ultimately it involves the very nature of GOD.
[FONT=&quot]Just because many have failed in marriage that does not change the essence of marriage, man and woman.[/FONT]

 

[Guitarhero]

It’s not ridiculous, Volver_Alma_Gitana, it’s a picture. Let me tell you that this picture helps to save many gays from their lifestyle (but I agree that they were already in Church).

The key of my post : reproduction.
I think our leaders can understand this point.
But In this case, I would prefer to stand by my personal spiritual conviction.

For example, how to explain to others that prayers are important?


@Smiley82, marriage is not just a contract, it’s a covenant made by the Most High (not by humans).
The meaning of marriage is very very profound and ultimately it involves the very nature of GOD.
[FONT=&quot]Just because many have failed in marriage that does not change the essence of marriage, man and woman.[/FONT]

I apologize, no offense meant. It was to the argument, not because it was your personal view...I should not have used such a strong word directly.

 

[Shimmie]

Question: Why is a homosexual marriage the ULTIMATE betrayal of the true meaning of marriage? Why is that betrayal more horrible than, say, infidelity or having children out of wedlock? Most Christians are taught that no "sin" weighs more heavily than another. A sin is a sin is a sin... right?

Oranges aside... my point is, it seems as if many are trying to "preserve" something that has long been broken...

And they are only trying to "preserve" it in one respect: homosexuality. If the main concern was REALLY "preserving" the "true" meaning of marriage (and not bigotry based on personal feelings), then JUST as much energy should be put into being against divorce, having children out of wedlock, and being married without having children... because it all goes against the "true" meaning of marriage... I mean, if that is REALLY the actual concern...

Hey Smiley... I'm glad you asked:

Gay marriage is indeed the ultimate of disrespect for marriage, as it mocks 'whom God has joined together...'

Angel, God does not join two of the same gender in Holy Matrimony. Man did not originate marriage, God did, therefore man does not have the right to alter it, no matter what man has done to disrespect it.

Gay marriage only adds to the disrespect of God's holy union between a man and a woman and there are far more marriages between a man and a woman that are wholesome and honorable before God then those that are not.

As for homosexuality being a sin as any other sin.
Indeed it is. Jesus took this very same sin and nailed to the Cross as He did all other sins.

However, homosexuality, is 'unrepented' sin when one chooses to stay witnin it. People stop committing adultery, people repent from lying, people repent from out of wedlock pregnancies... therefore in like manner, gays can repent from being a homosexual. It's been redeemed just as every other sin. And there are many, many, MANY gays who have done so and are serving God with all of their hearts...no longer living the gay lifestyle.

There is not per person of God's Church going before legistation, nor any Church that is under the Holy Order of God, which condones or legalizes adultery, out of wedlock pregnancies.

So when you ask 'what about'... those sins', no one is condoning them. The only persons condoning sexual sin are those who support and are fighting for gay marriage.

Come on, Smiley... you know there is no condoning of adultery, out of wedlock pregnacies, etc. and the Church has ALWAYS made this perfectly clear. It is only when the Church has taken a stand against gay marriage that these false claims have been made against Christians and the Church, as an excuse to justify gays marrying.

That's using a feather to slice a tomato. :Rose:

I'm not trying to offend you; I welcome you, your comments and your questions...

 

[Shimmie]

That's interesting because I saw a report on this and they say that pedophiles are not homosexuals...a category unto themselves...a gay act is with an adult. It wasn't through a gay agenda... psychologists. They just commit same-sex sexual crimes but the target is a child, male or female. Being a sexual deviant as in a criminal or dangerous person is not the same as being gay. I don't want to make you uncomfortable...but it's just physically sex. Shrugs. We're using the term as something dangerous...by force upon someone who is young/doesn't wish it. Two consenting adults ... they are consenting. It's also been around for a very long time in history so that's another consideration in the meaning of that term. I think there needs to be a distinction between danger and difference. Gays are not walking around having desirous feelings towards children. Example? Mothers have children. She has boys and girls. When her sons reach near adulthood, does an Oedipus complex evolve naturally? No.

Marriage...I'm wondering if there is an alternative name with the same social benefits afforded where marriage can be defined as between a man/woman and gay rights are afforded with like-status.

There are gay and heterosexual Pediphiles ... some prefer 'same sex' divient acts and others prefer opposite sex or both.

Pedophilia is not a heterosexual sin... only.

Regardless...it is horrific and demonic no matter what sexual sense it comes from.

 

[SmileyNY]

Hey Smiley... I'm glad you asked:

Gay marriage is indeed the ultimate of disrespect for marriage, as it mocks 'whom God has joined together...'

Angel, God does not join two of the same gender in Holy Matrimony. Man did not originate marriage, God did, therefore man does not have the right to alter it, no matter what man has done to disrespect it.

Gay marriage only adds to the disrespect of God's holy union between a man and a woman and there are far more marriages between a man and a woman that are wholesome and honorable before God then those that are not.

As for homosexuality being a sin as any other sin.
Indeed it is. Jesus took this very same sin and nailed to the Cross as He did all other sins.

However, homosexuality, is 'unrepented' sin when one chooses to stay witnin it. People stop committing adultery, people repent from lying, people repent from out of wedlock pregnancies... therefore in like manner, gays can repent from being a homosexual. It's been redeemed just as every other sin. And there are many, many, MANY gays who have done so and are serving God with all of their hearts...no longer living the gay lifestyle.

There is not per person of God's Church going before legistation, nor any Church that is under the Holy Order of God, which condones or legalizes adultery, out of wedlock pregnancies.

So when you ask 'what about'... those sins', no one is condoning them. The only persons condoning sexual sin are those who support and are fighting for gay marriage.

Come on, Smiley... you know there is no condoning of adultery, out of wedlock pregnacies, etc. and the Church has ALWAYS made this perfectly clear. It is only when the Church has taken a stand against gay marriage that these false claims have been made against Christians and the Church, as an excuse to justify gays marrying.

That's using a feather to slice a tomato. :Rose:

I'm not trying to offend you; I welcome you, your comments and your questions...

No worries. You definitely haven't offended me. Colorful language & emoticons don't get to me... only facts and logical reasoning. I simply disagree with the way you view things and feel that there are many holes in your explanation. From what I've read, I see that YOU view homosexual marriage as the ultimate betrayal... but you have to realize, that is simply your interpretation and simply an OPINION. I was raised a christian... God views all sin as equal. Period.

I never said those things were condoned, I'm saying people like you put a lot of energy into being against homosexuality when, if your concerns were really about the sanctity of marriage, you would be MORE upset about how many millions and millions of people defy the "true" meaning of marriage every. single. day. If preserving the sanctity of marriage is your TRUE concern... homosexuality is the LEAST of your worries. You don't have to worry about homosexuals ruining God's intent for marriage. Heterosexuals already have. Get upset about that.

 

[Guitarhero]

There are gay and heterosexual Pediphiles ... some prefer 'same sex' divient acts and others prefer opposite sex or both.

Pedophilia is not a heterosexual sin... only.

Regardless...it is horrific and demonic no matter what sexual sense it comes from.

The point is that if you're gay, doesn't mean you desire to harm a child or rape somebody. Pedophilia seeks to do sexual harm and gain domination over a child, any child, period. I guess that some target weaknesses in females over males and vice-versa. Again, heterosexuals abuse children. Being gay doesn't mean you are predisposed to raping kids. Pedophilia is another mindset.

Well, after this, I'm reading only, until I feel compelled to respond. I'll be listening on the sidelines for the outcome. It's actually offensive to suggest that a gay person is predisposed to harming another physically simply by being gay when you enter a relationship through consent with another adult. I suppose people are imagining gay parents doing it in front of the kids or groping the child and whatnot. It doesn't happen. They are just as loving and respectful as other parents. My mom and dad didn't do anything inappropriate in front of us...and I'm technically bi. Go figure. I never thought to harm a child either and I hope someone wouldn't be scared for me to be around them (women) or around their kids, esp. since I have 4. Oh well...towards the silent feature...

 

[Shimmie]

The point is that if you're gay, doesn't mean you desire to harm a child or rape somebody. Pedophilia seeks to do sexual harm and gain domination over a child, any child, period.

I guess that some target weaknesses in females over males and vice-versa. Again, heterosexuals abuse children. Being gay doesn't mean you are predisposed to raping kids. Pedophilia is another mindset.

Well, after this, I'm reading only, until I feel compelled to respond. I'll be listening on the sidelines for the outcome. It's actually offensive to suggest that a gay person is predisposed to harming another physically simply by being gay when you enter a relationship through consent with another adult.

I suppose people are imagining gay parents doing it in front of the kids or groping the child and whatnot. It doesn't happen. They are just as loving and respectful as other parents. My mom and dad didn't do anything inappropriate in front of us...and I'm technically bi. Go figure.

I never thought to harm a child either and I hope someone wouldn't be scared for me to be around them (women) or around their kids, esp. since I have 4. Oh well...towards the silent feature...

Volver... this is what I said and you quoted my comment as well...

There are gay and heterosexual Pediphiles ... some prefer 'same sex' divient acts and others prefer opposite sex or both.

Pedophilia is not a heterosexual sin... only.

Regardless...it is horrific and demonic no matter what sexual sense it comes from.

What I see more and more from gay marriage supporters is the constant attempt to attack and to downgrade 'heterosexual relationships'.

Sweetie, you repeatedly comment that 'heterosexuals' are pedophiles, implying that a homosexual could never be guilty of such.

Let's be honest, sexual perversions come from 'both', not just the one.

And I will be the first to apologize publicly and to retract any and every statement that I have made to imply or to say that 'ALL' gays are pedophiles. That is an unfair assessment for me or anyone else to make. But it is just as unfair for gay supporters to lay the same claim upon heterosexuals. It makes no sense. Pedophilia is a demonic act which comes from both sexual dispositions. The crime lies in both camps of sexual activity.

My parents were also respectful around me and my sisters when displaying affection towards one another. To be honest, I never saw anything remotely out of order sexually until 'Cable TV', including the language.

The bottom line is that gays do not want opposition of any kind. Their arguments are just that...do not disagree with them. This is what they want and that's it.

If an old lady can die and leave her millions to her pet dog, without any opposition or revoking of the will, then why can't gays do the same?

Isn't it selfish for them to fight for the right to include their lover on their insurance and yet what happens to other non-gay individuals who need the same benefit? It's a selfish battle they are fighting.

Anyone can obtain an Advanced Medical Directive, which allows whoever they choose to appoint, to make medical decisions for them if they are unable and/or to make sure that their medical requests are carried out.

In addition, a Power of Attorney can also be drawn to appoint a person of one's choice to handle their financial and personal affairs. Any person, gay or straight, can draw and place into their wills whoever they want to benefit. It does need a gay marriage for any of a gay person's choice of appointee, or beneficiary, to be legally bond and secure. It is a legal right which cannot be denied.

I'm telling you what's going to happen. The day is coming when gay marriage will be repealed and all of the fight and efforts put into this will be of no avail and all in vain. They will endure the loss of what they thought they have gained. There's a principle and a spiritual law which no one can change and it is the law of reciprocity. Legislation or not, God takes back what belongs to Him and there isn't a thing that anyone can do about it.

Everything you've shared is based upon man and not God. Your foundation is unstable, for man is unstable. No matter what legislation may pass, if it doesn't have God to back it up, it cannot stand.

He is going to set in place those who will do His will and not the will of man. It's Biblical prophesy and nothing is going to stop it from taking place.

And please know that I say all of this in peace. I'm not angry, neither am I contentious. I care about everyone, but my call in life to be in God's will and not man's. God rules, not man.

Peace and blessings and I mean this sincerely. :Rose:

 

[Laela]

So worthy of repeating.... this is the Christian Forum and it's clear why Shimmie preferred to have this conversation here... not to lose sight of what really is going on ..the BIG PICTURE, if you will.

No believer in Christ should ever expect you or anyone else to hate another human being. Christ is in us, the hope of glory and when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then the more we grow in Christ we are going to learn why God says what he says in the bible. He loves all mankind and he is love according to 1 John 4:7. In 1 John, it also tells us to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. We're in the world, but no longer of the world. It takes ongoing growth to recognize what the Lord thinks about a situation according to his word and what we as the individual thinks.

But also, you're right, we can't fight what appears to be happening or what's to come as far as the world goes. That's going to happen regardless. Doesn't mean we have to submit ourselves to what's going on. Satan wants us to submit to worldly events based on equality and so-called world peace when he really wants total and complete domination. He knows what we know that the bible is infallible and 100% true, so of course he's going to up the ante by place his demons of doubts, fears, and unbelief, and most of all confusion. God is not an author of confusion, so whenever that is confusion and frustration in the mix, know that it is of Satan and it is not going to work out for anyone's good except Satan himself.

God loves all people, he just hate the sin. So are we suppose to oppose that? If we who believe in him and have a relationship, as we are his children, shouldn't we be willing to take his side and hate the very things that he hates? I would think so.

 

[Shimmie]

No worries. You definitely haven't offended me. Colorful language & emoticons don't get to me... only facts and logical reasoning.

I simply disagree with the way you view things and feel that there are many holes in your explanation. From what I've read, I see that YOU view homosexual marriage as the ultimate betrayal... but you have to realize, that is simply your interpretation and simply an OPINION. I was raised a christian... God views all sin as equal. Period.

I never said those things were condoned, I'm saying people like you put a lot of energy into being against homosexuality when, if your concerns were really about the sanctity of marriage, you would be MORE upset about how many millions and millions of people defy the "true" meaning of marriage every. single. day.

If preserving the sanctity of marriage is your TRUE concern... homosexuality is the LEAST of your worries. You don't have to worry about homosexuals ruining God's intent for marriage. Heterosexuals already have. Get upset about that.

People like me.....?

It's true, Smiley; I am something else, that's for certain.

You're a sweetheart and I mean this.

What I'm sharing here is truly in love and not to offend nor will I allow anyone else to offend you.

Smiley, you say that you are interested only in the facts and logical reasoning. Yet you are repeating comments about the Church which are not facts, neither logical, but false comments which are also canned responses from gay marriage supporters.

Smiley.... there isn't a Church that I know of and I know MANY and the Body of Christ does indeed put full force -- the energy in the sanctity of marriage. AND it is successful and productive.

I don't know what Church you attend or what the teachings are, however only because you assume that Christians and the Church are not addressing other sins of life, and putting their energies into gay issues only, is a huge misconception.

The Body of Christ is indeed addressing 'all' sin which includes, homosexuality and gay marriage. You can only be repeating what you hear from other gay marriage supporters who are also misinformed; and have not witnessed the Truth or simply wish to ignore the Truth to strengthen their case.

But hey... that's what battles consist of misconceptions on all sides.

The truth is this. Christians are those who have a mind and most of all the heart to follow Jesus. Like it or not, you have to be sold out. Jesus said, we are to take up our Cross and follow Him.

This means selling out to Jesus and not to man. You say you disagree with 'my' views, yet they are not 'my' views; they are God's views which I do agree with. Whether you agree or disagree, it is not going to change into what you want it to be. It's just not.

The reason you disagree is because you are not 'there', you are not sold out to Jesus. Smiley...being sold out to Jesus means we take Him at His word and believe it, at whatever the cost.

You disagree because you are not sold out to Him. You're not under the Truth otherwise you would know that Jesus, Himself did not ordain neither did He entertain gay marriage.

You're not a bad person, you've simply laid your allegiance unto 'man' and not God. It's a human trait, 'we've' all done it; but sooner or later, we have to come to this.... "Choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Loving a person is not allowing them to stay in sin. We minister God's love to them and allow God to rescue them. :Rose:

Peace and blessings to you...

 

[Shimmie]

Another Powerful Thread .... connecting message.

PinkPebbles

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=12848625#post12848625

 

[SmileyNY]

Obviously I'm talking about outside of the church. Hmm... When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to publicly protest infidelity, children born out of wedlock, and/or married people who choose not to procreate as God intended...? I'm going with never. I'm not saying they don't happen, but if they do, they're so infrequent that nobody remembers or hears about it in the first place.

When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to protest gay marriage? About every other day.

All sins being equal, you know what God also strongly disapproves of? Judgement. Not allowing 2 consenting adults of sound mind to make their own decisions about who they want to marry is judgement. If you think it's a sin and a betrayal. Fine. Let them make their own decision. Who are we to make the decision for them. Honor marriage the way you feel you need to in your life... but don't judge others by trying to dictate what you feel they should do & how you think they should live their lives. Judgement is not your job. Let God do his work. He's fully capable.


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF

 

[Guitarhero]

Sweetie, you repeatedly comment that 'heterosexuals' are pedophiles, implying that a homosexual could never be guilty of such.

Let's be honest, sexual perversions come from 'both', not just the one.

And I will be the first to apologize publicly and to retract any and every statement that I have made to imply or to say that 'ALL' gays are pedophiles.

The bottom line is that gays do not want opposition of any kind. Their arguments are just that...do not disagree with them. This is what they want and that's it.

.......
Everything you've shared is based upon man and not God. Your foundation is unstable, for man is unstable. No matter what legislation may pass, if it doesn't have God to back it up, it cannot stand.

He is going to set in place those who will do His will and not the will of man. It's Biblical prophesy and nothing is going to stop it from taking place.

And please know that I say all of this in peace. I'm not angry, neither am I contentious. I care about everyone, but my call in life to be in God's will and not man's. God rules, not man.

Peace and blessings and I mean this sincerely. :Rose:

At the implication...and "they" do xyz...implying that all do xyz....and actually my foundation is quite stable because it's not founded upon any man. I guess I thought the thread was about giving advice on how best to contact a legislator regarding an issue toward a desired outcome. Simply, there are christians who do not hold your point of view and they aren't any less spiritual. Shrugs.

I once had an issue with Plan B pill at the pharmacy and giving it out. I spoke with someone in the church about it who is in authority and the words given to me shocked me. I was to fulfill my job as it is a man's free will to make that choice and know that I did not cause that person to make the decision. It's a bit extreme and folks could pull another analogy of giving a suicidal person a gun...not the same, however. I think you missed the part where I said that perhaps they could be afforded the same rights while the definition of marriage remained traditional.

 

[Shimmie]

Obviously I'm talking about outside of the church. Hmm... When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to publicly protest infidelity, children born out of wedlock, and/or married people who choose not to procreate as God intended...? I'm going with never. I'm not saying they don't happen, but if they do, they're so infrequent that nobody remembers or hears about it in the first place.

When was the last time I saw a group of Christians gathered to protest gay marriage? About every other day.

All sins being equal, you know what God also strongly disapproves of? Judgement. Not allowing 2 consenting adults of sound mind to make their own decisions about who they want to marry is judgement. If you think it's a sin and a betrayal. Fine. Let them make their own decision. Who are we to make the decision for them. Honor marriage the way you feel you need to in your life... but don't judge others by trying to dictate what you feel they should do & how you think they should live their lives. Judgement is not your job. Let God do his work. He's fully capable.


Sent from my iPhone using LHCF

Awwww Smiley...

If only all of this support was for the Kingdom of God and not the sins and the whims of man. *sigh*

I can promise you that I was never in any of those parades; I spend most of my time in Ministry praying with and 'for' people be they gay or straight. And it's not just me, but I can assure you that the majority of the members in this forum are here and do much more to help others get through their life, let alone just through the day.

You have a heart for humanity and your dedication is admirable, yet it's misdirected. You can't allow yourself to be upset because gay marriage is not accepted. And truly no one is judging them and taking anything away from them. Only the Truth is being presented and the Truth is ... God is not promoting gay marriages. It's not Him, or of Him. We have to care more about their souls than giving them a deeper well of sin to be in. To approve gay marriage is to approve the sin of homosexuality. It's not about the life they want now, it is about the 'after life' which everyone has to face what is truly 'Judgement'.

God wants far more for gays than legislative ploys as well as parades either for or against them. He wants to them to receive their salvation which is bought and paid for.

I would be more concerned about their happiness in Jesus than a license to live in sin and leading others therein.

:Rose: Peace and blessings...

 

[SmileyNY]

Awwww Smiley...

If only all of this support was for the Kingdom of God and not the sins and the whims of man. *sign*

I can promise you that I was never in any of those parades; I spend most of my time in Ministry praying with and 'for' people be they gay or straight. And it's not just me, but I can assure you that the majority of the members in this forum are here and do much more to help others get through their life, let alone just through the day.

You have a heart for humanity and your dedication is admirable, yet it's misdirected. You can't allow yourself to be upset because gay marriage is not accepted. And truly no one is judging them and taking anything away from them. Only the Truth is being presented and the Truth is ... God is not promoting gay marriages. It's not Him, or of Him. We have to care more about their souls than giving them a deeper well of sin to be in. To approve gay marriage is to approve the sin of homosexuality. It's not about the life they want now, it is about the 'after life' which everyone has to face what is truly 'Judgement'.

God wants far more for gays than legislative ploys as well as parades either for or against them. He wants to them to receive their salvation which is bought and paid for.

I would be more concerned about their happiness in Jesus than a license to live in sin and leading others therein.

:Rose: Peace and blessings...

As I said before, God is capable. Let him do his job & stop judging others. While you're busy wagging your finger at the "sins of the whims of man," God is only expecting you to keep your OWN existence righteous and frowns heavily upon your judgement of others.


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