Imprisoning Women And Not Covering Birth Control Are Now On The Table In The Abortion Fight

Discussion in 'News - Breaking News & Political Forum' started by theRaven, May 14, 2019.

  1. theRaven

    theRaven Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    14,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    South Florida
    Anti-abortion legislators are no longer just trying to chip away at Roe v. Wade — they’re going after it with an ax. Sweeping proposals pushed in the past week in Georgia, Ohio and Alabama could, respectively:

    • lead women who get abortions to face murder charges,
    • strip coverage for some forms of birth control,
    • and ban abortion in almost every circumstance.
    Many of these bills would directly challenge Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion nationwide, and that’s exactly the point: Confident that the Court’s new conservative majority will overturn the landmark ruling, if given the opportunity, anti-abortion advocates are pushingfor ever-stricter anti-abortion laws.


    And they’re succeeding. Here are the details.

    ALABAMA: DOCTORS WHO PERFORM ABORTIONS COULD BE IMPRISONED FOR 99 YEARS
    In its original incarnation, the Alabama bill didn’t include exceptions for pregnancies that result from rape or incest. That was a deliberate choice by its House sponsor, state Rep. Terri Collins, in order to improve the bill’s chances of one day ending up in front of the Supreme Court and being used to overturnRoe.

    “I think fighting to overturn what I believe was a bad decision that allowed people to kill unborn children is worth a fight,” the Republican told the Associated Press last month.



    The fight over those exceptions erupted on Thursday, on the state Senate floor. The state Senate Judiciary Committee had amended the bill to include exceptions for rape and incest, but some Republicans in the chamber speedily removed that amendment — leading lawmakers to accuse their colleagues of trying to force them into passing the bill.

    “You’ve got 27 men over on the other side ready to tell women what they can do with their bodies,” state Sen. Bobby Singleton, a Democrat, told the Associated Press. “You don’t have to procedurally just try to railroad us.”

    “You’ve got 27 men over on the other side ready to tell women what they can do with their bodies”

    Though the vote on the legislation is tabled until next week, the bill’s backers are still confident that the Republican-controlled chamber can get the bill across the finish line. And regardless of whether the amendment ends up in the final version of the bill, its penalties for abortion are steep: While women who receive abortions wouldn’t be liable, doctors who perform abortions could still be imprisoned for 99 years.


    Alabama’s abortion ban, as introduced, also equates abortion with the Holocaust. “More than 50 million babies have been aborted in the United States since the Roe decision in 1973, more than three times the number who were killed in German death camps, Chinese purges, Stalin's gulags, Cambodian killing fields, and the Rwandan genocide combined,” the text of the bill reads.

    Alabama’s abortion ban, as introduced, also equates abortion with the Holocaust.

    Last month, the Anti-Defamation League asked the Alabama House Health Committee to oppose the bill “because it contains language that is offensive to the Jewish Community and infringes on Alabamians' religious freedom,” CBS News reported.

    The committee passed the bill anyway. So did the House.

    GEORGIA: THE SO-CALLED “HEARTBEAT” BAN GIVES “UNBORN CHILDREN” “FULL LEGAL RECOGNITION”
    On Tuesday, Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp made Georgia the fourth state this year to sign into law a bill that would ban most abortions once a fetal heartbeat is detected — which can occur as early as six weeks into a pregnancy, before many people know they’re pregnant. (There are exceptions, like in the case of rape or incest; people who want abortions have to report those crimes to the police first.) But that so-called “heartbeat” ban isn’t the most astonishing part of the law: instead, that would likely be the part where it declares that “Unborn children are a class of living, distinct persons” who need “full legal recognition.”

    That classification, of course, carries a whole host of implications. For instance, not only must Georgia now include any fetus with a detectable heartbeat in any “population-based determinations,” according to the text of the Georgia law, but it must also consider that such a fetus qualifies as a “dependent minor for income tax purposes.”


    It also means that, legally speaking, aborting a fetus in Georgia constitutes committing a homicide, Slate reported.

    Many anti-abortion restrictions that criminalize abortion specify that the doctor who performs the procedure, not the patient who receives it, is at risk of prosecution. But the Georgia law doesn’t make that distinction. Somebody who gets an abortion could thus be a party to murder, according to Slate (a charge punishable by life imprisonment or death). If someone travels out of state to get an abortion, she could be charged with conspiracy to commit murder (punishable by 10 years in prison). If she miscarries, she could be charged with second-degree murder (10 to 30 years).

    A Georgia legislator also weighed in on Twitter to back up Slate’s interpretation of the law. “Criminal laws we have to outlaw murder, manslaughter, etc. are in place to protect ‘natural persons,’” wrote Jennifer Jordan, a Democratic state senator and a lawyer. “So yes, if woman were to have miscarriage or seek an abortion, she could be prosecuted under any of these. It would be up to [the] discretion of prosecutor.”

    The law does represent “unknown territory” for Georgia, Jordan noted. And Planned Parenthood Southeast Advocates’ president and CEO, Staci Fox, pointed out that the bill’s implications — like whether women will be criminalized for seeking abortions — are not yet known.

    “Nor will they be unless and until they are played out in court. Even legal experts can’t predict what a DA might do if this bill were to take effect,” she said in a statement. “Legal precedent is clear that abortion bans like HB 481 are unconstitutional and there are already more than a dozen anti-abortion cases working their way through the courts, so it is unlikely that this bill specifically will make its way to the Supreme Court.”


    Georgia’s law will almost certainly be blocked by a lawsuit before it’s due to take effect in January. The American Civil Liberties Union and Planned Parenthood have already vowed to sue.

    OHIO: A BILL TO STOP INSURANCE FROM COVERING ABORTION COULD AFFECT BIRTH CONTROL, TOO.
    Ohio also recently passed a “heartbeat” ban, but its legislators are now debating yet another abortion-restriction bill, to stop most insurance companies from covering abortion services unless the procedure is necessary to save the mother’s life. The bill defines this kind of abortion as a “nontherapeutic abortion.” And as in Georgia’s bill, there’s some curious language: This one says that so-called nontherapuetic abortion “includes drugs or devices

    used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum.”

    Such a broad definition could include common birth control methods like the pill and IUDs, Jaime Miracle, deputy director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio, told the Statehouse News Bureau. An IUD can cost as much as $1,300, according to Planned Parenthood.

    In an interview with that outlet, the Ohio bill’s sponsor, Republican state Rep. Republican John Becker, said his bill wasn’t meant to go after birth control.

    “When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise,” he said. “But I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive.”


    Hormonal birth control primarily works by stopping ovulation, but it can also block fertilization and implantation, explained Daniel Grossman, a doctor and the director of Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health at the University of California, San Francisco. And so if anti-abortion legislators interpret Becker’s bill broadly — as Becker himself seems to be doing — birth control would potentially be banned from coverage.

    “Abortion now means contraception if you use this definition,” Elizabeth Nash, senior state issues manager for the Guttmacher Institute, told VICE News. “If you want to use the pill, the patch, the ring, a hormonal IUD implant — yeah, doesn't sound like that's happening.”

    That definition of “nontherapeutic abortion” also insinuates that personhood begins as soon as an egg is fertilized. It’s a more wide-ranging definition than even those in “heartbeat” bills, which indicate that personhood begins with the start of a heartbeat.

    “Abortion now means contraception if you use this definition"

    “They're looking to more this fetal dignity and fetal rights frame,” Nash said of abortion opponents. She traces this frame back to 2016, when the Supreme Court ruled that certain Texas restrictions on abortion clinics — like requiring abortion providers to have admitting privileges — made it too tough for women to get abortions. In the wake of that decision, anti-abortion activists have focused less on regulating the way abortion clinics are run and more on propping up the rights of the fetus, according to Nash.


    “Even when it makes very little sense, as in this bill,” she said. “Because they're trying to build this case around fetal rights and dignity, and so they're trying to establish this standard throughout all the statutes.”

    Becker’s bill also mentions a method to re-implant an embryo from an ectopic pregnancy — a pregnancy that takes place in a fallopian tube — within the uterus. There is no such procedure.

    “It is 100% not a thing,” Grossman said.

    Cover: Women hold signs to protest HB 481 at the state Capitol, Tuesday, April 2, 2019, in Atlanta. HB 481, which would ban most abortions after a fetal heartbeat is detected, has past both the House and the Senate and awaits a signature from Gov. Brian Kemp. (AP Photo/John Bazemore)
     
  2. doriannc

    doriannc Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,010
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    16,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    TX
    Ummm even jailing those who have a miscarriage? That’s basically 90% of women who have been pregnant. Good luck with that! Jerks
     
    kimpaur, lala, 1QTPie and 11 others like this.
  3. dicapr

    dicapr Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    27,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North Carolina
    So they want to strip women of their rights to prevent pregnancy and then punish them if they get an abortion after the fact. What type of logic is that? I really believe it is just a way to keep the poor poorer and women as second class citizens.
     
    kimpaur, kblc06, Tulips4u and 18 others like this.
  4. intellectualuva

    intellectualuva Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    12,978
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    71,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    From MD - Now Location Independent
    This is clearly what the powers that be want. smh. I really feel for the women in those states.
     
    BlueEra, SoniT, Peppermynt and 3 others like this.
  5. Crackers Phinn

    Crackers Phinn Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    28,980
    Likes Received:
    262,615
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In the Detroit forum I'm in, there is some pushback from women but the majority are talking about this is a good thing. Oh well, that school to prison pipeline won't feed itself.

    I'm an Israeli citizen. Abortions are available on demand and free for women 20-33 and if you're over 33, you got to pay the equivalent of a co-pay. Even when there were limitations on abortion, a valid reason for request was being unmarried. Despite having liberal abortion laws and not being a Christian majority country, Israel has lower abortion rates than both the US and the UK. On top of that, there's not at doubt in my mind that the doctors there studied and passed their exams without cheating so it's likely safer.
     
  6. intellectualuva

    intellectualuva Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    12,978
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    71,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    From MD - Now Location Independent
    Yeah. I think folks who think this is just posturing and won't hold could be in for a rude awakening. It's such a shame.

    I wonder if we are going to see more women opt for sterilization...though that's so invasive....I doubt it.
     
    frizzy, meka72, Zuleika and 3 others like this.
  7. theRaven

    theRaven Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    14,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    South Florida
    There are many anti-abortion countries in central America who currently imprison women for having miscarriages. This has also occurred in the states already.
     
    kblc06, kxlot79, Lady S and 4 others like this.
  8. theRaven

    theRaven Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    14,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    South Florida
    This is exactly their way of keeping and maintaining the class system they want in place. The power hungry Republicans used the hardcore evangelical group to push this even further, under the guise of being pro-life. This has always been about class warfare.
     
    kxlot79, chocolat79, tinyhips and 5 others like this.
  9. theRaven

    theRaven Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    14,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    South Florida
    Do not be surprised if laws like these populate even in more states.
     
    Tulips4u, chocolat79, frizzy and 3 others like this.
  10. theRaven

    theRaven Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,357
    Likes Received:
    14,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    South Florida
    I've been taking note of countries with a declining birth rates and the government's response to how they push family planning. Countries like Japan and Sweden offer paid maternity leave, pays couples to have children, and abortions are legal as well. The US seems to be going in the opposite direction.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    kimpaur, tinyhips, meka72 and 4 others like this.
  11. Miss_Luna

    Miss_Luna Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    6,906
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On the equator
    I must watch way too much Handmaid's Tales. This is legitimately scary.
     
    kblc06, Tulips4u, Rastafarai and 21 others like this.
  12. intellectualuva

    intellectualuva Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    12,978
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    71,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    From MD - Now Location Independent
    Or Hungary...there's another country too that recently made changes.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/hav...ary-and-youll-pay-no-income-tax-for-life.html
     
    meka72, Everything Zen and theRaven like this.
  13. intellectualuva

    intellectualuva Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    12,978
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    71,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    From MD - Now Location Independent
    Yeah but that's why it scared me so much. Even the early pre forced birth law to hand over bank accounts to next male kin....an absolute nightmare for me.
     
  14. Dellas

    Dellas Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    15,115
    Likes Received:
    45,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Eugenics.
    Only the non-poor, upper middle class can afford kids.
     
  15. dicapr

    dicapr Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    27,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North Carolina
    What also makes me mad is that the “defense” of the unborn child leaves no room for terminating a pregnancy when the fetus has abnormalities that are incompatible with life. They want to force families to endure a pregnancy that will result in a baby that will die shortly after birth. We are more humane to our pets than that.
     
  16. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,405
    Likes Received:
    74,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    With the cool kids
    So these Republicans literally wrote in the bill that they want to reach up inside a woman and re-implant ectopic pregnancies huh?

    :abducted:
     
  17. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,405
    Likes Received:
    74,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    With the cool kids
    You couldn’t pay me to move to a red state and once we start monitoring sites in Canada and overseas I’mma keep trying to cozy up to my boy Justin Trudeau. People think Gilead could never happen. Folks can stay sleep if they want to.
     
    kblc06, meka72, scoobygirl and 10 others like this.
  18. HappilyLiberal

    HappilyLiberal Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Messages:
    17,182
    Likes Received:
    87,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ding... ding... ding... ding... ding... we have a winner!

    Because if any of those :censored: who voted for these measures got their mistresses pregnant, they can afford to pay for them to go to another state, or in some cases another country, to get an abortion. So these laws really only apply to women who lack those resources!
     
  19. lesedi

    lesedi All is well with me

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    12,575
    Likes Received:
    120,647
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can’t believe what I have just read.
     
    theRaven, doriannc and LivingInPeace like this.
  20. NijaG

    NijaG Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    14,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Welp.... I dunno.
    Maybe women in these states should start dropping the babies at these lawmakers homes/officers.

    They cut off social welfare funding, but if you ask about how they plan to take care of the unwanted babies, all you’ll get is crickets. I guess the children will be like those Oliver Twist orphans.
     
  21. Ms. Tarabotti

    Ms. Tarabotti Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,664
    Likes Received:
    14,410
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    It's okay- we'll just return to back alley and under ground abortions. :mad: Women will be dying in the streets but that is their own fault- those hussies.

    Instead of improving sex education, access to reliable birth control, funding for better maternity leave and child care, and child support or other measures which might make more women better equipped to care for their children, we'll just jail them.

    And the last time I looked, most women don't get pregnant by themselves. Where are the restrictions on men? Shouldn't we be all up in their sexual history and behaviors as well? If a man creates a child and doesn't support it, shouldn't he be jailed or sterilized or maybe even castrated? Why are men so quick to say that women shouldn't make the decision to abort a child by themselves but then don't hold the man involved responsible for said child for anything? Maybe he should be the one getting snipped or waiting until marriage or until he can support any children his sexual activity might create. Maybe he should be the one keeping his legs crossed.
     
    dancinstallion, Lady S, lala and 13 others like this.
  22. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,405
    Likes Received:
    74,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    With the cool kids
    I guess Michelle Obama would be in jail then.
     
    theRaven likes this.
  23. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,405
    Likes Received:
    74,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    With the cool kids
    They’re trying to jail women who leave the state for abortions too. Peak Gilead realness.
     
    CurlyNiquee, frizzy, theRaven and 2 others like this.
  24. OhTall1

    OhTall1 Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,020
    Media:
    59
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    82,290
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NoVA
    Does anyone know if this tweet is accurate? Because if it is, it's worse than making these women second class citizens.
     
  25. dicapr

    dicapr Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    27,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North Carolina
    It’s right but it applies to the physicians who would break the law and perform the abortions illegally. As of right now the women would not be charged. Basically if a doctor felt it was in the best interest of the woman to have an abortion and they got caught they would be a felon.
     
    scoobygirl, brg240, OhTall1 and 4 others like this.
  26. dicapr

    dicapr Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    27,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North Carolina
    There is a possibility that men will have to start paying child support after the heartbeat. That will wake them up. But I’m sure they will figure out how to delay paying until paternity is established.
     
    hunnychile, brg240, PopLife and 5 others like this.
  27. madamdot

    madamdot Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    4,479
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Somewhere Out There
    That is not going to happen. If rapists can sue for visitation and custody of their progeny then you bet men will never pass laws to put them in this position. This is not about abortions or babies. It never was.

    This is why I side eyed everyone who voted for these nonsense people talking about its not going to make any difference. Wait until this lands on your doorstep.

    They are literally setting up laws to make it easy to break them for you to lose status as a citizen and I don't just mean immigration wise - I mean you are now a felon and you cant vote and lose your rights. There is literally no way to prove a miscarriage was not precipitated by external forces because doctors don't know why miscarriages happen in the first place. If you've ever had one you know in most cases doctors shrug and say these things happen.
     
  28. intellectualuva

    intellectualuva Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    12,978
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    71,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    From MD - Now Location Independent
    Yes. I saw that too.

    They clear don't understand science. Lol.
     
    Lady S, Everything Zen and theRaven like this.
  29. Everything Zen

    Everything Zen Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,405
    Likes Received:
    74,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    With the cool kids
    kimpaur, theRaven, Tulips4u and 15 others like this.
  30. BrickbyBrick

    BrickbyBrick Well-Known Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,051
    Likes Received:
    13,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYC
    So if you've been raped and cant prove it, you have to:

    1. Take work time off to give birth to your rapists child;
    2. Bear the nightmare of giving birth to a child you did not ask for
    3. Face the decision of giving up this child or keeping it, but possibly resenting it (in part.)
    4. Risk YOUR life to have this baby. All childbirth comes with an inherent risk, not just women with known health issues.
    5. The victim is now immeasurably punished not just by the criminal but by the system tasked to protect her freedoms. I see law suits...

    The list goes on.....

    We are backsliding. This is unbelievably injurious to a population already disadvantaged by this country's historic treatment of race, inherited poverty, educational disparities and gender obstacles.

    They are winning.
     

Share This Page