Discussion in 'News - Breaking News & Political Forum' started by nicola.kirwan, Jul 4, 2019.
Let me just leave.
Who is to say that she doesn’t? I feel that is something people say to judge mothers who don’t parent the way they think they should.
If a child crying means that she’s not doing it right then I’m also guilty, and If missing a birthday party here or there is one of the worst offenses then I think the kids will be ok.
The children will be ok, however they will be affected. Like the article states you can’t have everything. You can’t make choices that are best for you and expect because it to automatically be the right choice for your child and vice versa. The right choice for your child isn’t always the best choice for you.
She made some choices even she didn’t feel great about. It doesn’t mean that she is a bad mom or her kids feel unloved. It does mean that in order to achieve in her career she made the hard choice to put her needs ahead of her home life.
Everyone does it (children or no children) and it is always a questionable decision. Only the person making the decision can decide if it was worth it in the end.
Saw this quote/saying that if you died today, your employer would probably have your position filled before your obituary is printed.
My mom told me this as a child all the time. She said what it takes to succeed in the workplace is the opposite of what is required to build relationships. I didn't realize it then but she was talking about my dad. And I had to watch the consequences of this play out in my parent's marriage. My mom was a stay at home mom, but she went back to school twice and obtained a professional license while raising multiple children, and now she's back at work while my dad's retired. Any project, paper or anything school related I needed help with, she was there. At the same time, I was usually one of the last kids picked up, even if I needed to come home because I was sick. My dad was a successful surgeon for many years, provided his family a wonderful life but my relationship with him is not as strong as it could be. There was a time he came in the house when I was 4 and I didn't know who he was.
I'm thinking about this topic as I get closer to getting engaged to SO and we plan our life together, since we do want children.
All this. Motherhood and career is a tricky one for women and we're already scrutinized so much I don't want to add to it. BUT, I am curious about the bolded, because as you said, I don't understand. It reminds me of this post from Humans of NY:
The comments were crazy. I'm a big believer in to each her own. My only question was her motivation to have children in the first place. But people saw red just for asking that.
I’m sorry but whose kids really needed deep emotional therapy bc their parents missed a few birthdays?
I didn’t see my dad a whole lot growing up bc he worked the night shift until I was a teenager and I used to be afraid of him bc he was very serious and had a bit of a temper until he aged out but as we got older our relationships are great. I spent a lot of time with my grandma and aunt in my younger years after school until I could stay for after school activities and started gymnastics. My parents even tried to get me into chess then didn’t play with me and I had to basically learn and play by myself. I know that’s my own personal anecdote but I guess only children are used to figuring things out on their own and being by themselves a lot.
The other thing is kids didn’t ask/sign up to be here. Also men tend to push far more parental responsibilities off onto their partners which causes resentment IMO.
I know of senior manager’s wife whom left him as soon as the last child was out of the house. He was a workaholic.
I live by this in my career.
I agree with her. I had good life or I was starting a better life before kids. I was talented, won competitions and major championships, I went on tour, bought my house, and travelled all before age 22.
So I can't relate to the parents that say their kids are the best thing that happened to them.
Having kids is One of the most important jobs to raise them right, but a MD, lawyer etc are important jobs too. And I can see how kids don't bring that same fulfillment as saving someone's life daily or weekly.
I remember a few pro football players saying how they had to go to therapy after retiring because nothing in life brought them that same joy and pleasure as playing in front of a crowd. Having kids and a wife didn't replace that feeling. It just wasn't enough. Same situation as the OP putting career before their kids.
My dad says kids bring perspective to your life bc the focus is no longer just about you.
I’m like well thanks for dragging me into this hellhole to straighten out your existence.
It is possible that her motivation to have children was the same as others. She wanted children. She was obviously older, educated, married and financially stable. Which is the perfect time and condition to bring children into the world.
It could be that it wasn't until after having a kid that she felt like this isn't what she expected. Her kid isn't bringing her joy as she thought and was told having a child would, and this isn't how family, friends, and society make people believe it is the best thing in life and the mother is going to feel so much love and happiness. Well what now when that doesn't happen??
[QUOTE“He’s starting to be less dependent, but so far it’s been pretty relentless and repetitive. A lot of changing diapers and feeding. The same mundane task over and over again. It can be exhausting and depersonalizing. ][/QUOTE]
a lot of people feel this way but are afraid to say it out loud because of the judgement. Baby stage not fun for me at all, so i get what she's saying - and it's not that she regrets having children. I've said it on here a bunch of times that my favourite stage was 5 years old and up.
Anyway with regard to her plan to go back to work , it could be that she earns more than her husband and the plan was always for him to stay home.
I think more mothers need to speak up and be honest with childless women. Give all sides to the story. Talk about the trials and tribulations, the highs and the lows of parenthood.
Let them know a child may bring them joy, happiness and fulfillment or it may not. Let them know that many mothers resent their children or resent themselves for having children. Postpartum depression and psychosis is real.
Ask them if they are willing to sacrifice their wants, needs, freedom and possibly their career for children.
Ask them are they willing to put in the work, time, dedication and resources that it takes to build strong children into successful adults or to take care of a special needs child.
Ask them if they have a good support system. Tell them how hard it is to raise a child without one.
LOL!!! I have come to believe that the purpose of children is to hold a mirror up to you daily. You see reflected in them all of your hopes and dreams, fears and insecurities, love and honesty. My children have taught me more about myself than any self-help book. That being said, don't have them if you are unwilling to put in the work.
I feel like she's still a good mom and it seems her kids (at least her son) know that she loves them.
We had different upbringings then because my mom was always crystal clear that raising children is one of the hardest things in the world. Maybe people around me talked about motherhood with rose colored glasses and it went in one ear and out the other but motherhood was never idealized by anyone I paid attention to.
So we’re looking at things from different wavelengths.
People tend to think of the kids are well adjusted and don’t need therapy they are “all right”. The parenting classes I had to take really shed light on how issues adults have in relationships when they grow up can be affected by their relationships as kids.
Children with damaged attachments to the adults in their lives have issues with their partners and friends when they get older. They tend to be overly independent or overly needy. Just because a child understands why mommy and daddy are not present doesn’t mean they have the emotional maturity to handle the disappointment without learning unhealthy coping skills.
It doesn’t mean your child can never be disappointed or you have to be at their beck and call. It just means that as a parent you need to look at your child’s emotional maturity in these situations.
There a lot of adults who have trouble forming healthy relationships because of the way that they were raised.
People seem to think that child abuse/neglect is a black and white issue. Either you were abused or you were not. But it is more of spectrum. The woman in the OP is not a good parent and is damaging her children.
I'm coming at this article and discussion from the perspective of a child raised by two Black attorneys that met while attending one of the ten top ranked law schools in the country, and who had children in their thirties and forties (and, with my little brother, approaching fifty).
No one knows what the effects of their parenting will be, until they have children. Now that I'm a year away from the age my mother was when she had me, I understand that more than ever.
Neither my brother nor I resented our parents for working. In fact, we still talk about, to this day, how proud we'd be when we'd see our parents dressed for a fancy outing, or Dad coming home with one of his many awards, or Mom being promoted, again. I actually just sent Mom a text this morning, telling her she's literally the most amazing woman I know; reminding myself that I'm half "her" keeps me going when I get discouraged with my station in life. Not to mention the fact that we were able to grow up in an area ranked by Forbes as the 4th best place in the country to live, and could keep up with our private school friends mentally and monetarily. Yes, it mattered and it felt good.
Both my brother and I take work, status, prestige, and respect seriously. Having parents that beat the odds (Mom was dirt, I mean dirt, poor; Dad, while from a prestigious family, was a Vietnam Vet that served as a medic) is a huge part of what makes us feel so good about ourselves. We both think our parents are amazing. We'd never want for anyone else.
When we were growing up, our Dad would always tell us his goal as a father was to make sure we could make it when he wasn't here anymore. It used to upset me, but when we lost him unexpectedly when we were both still in our twenties, it gave both of us strength we didn't know we had. I made it through the other side because of him. And Mom. And Brother. Period. They were the reason I didn't lose everything--because through my life, they showed me that I could take care of myself, I make good decisions, and I'm okay. What I want for me is okay. Again, that's in no small part due to the work they put in crafting amazing careers and giving us something to look up to. And that included business trips, missing crying phone calls, me being a latch-key kid, and more.
However. They got lucky with two children that wound up caring about having a good career, doing well, and looking good as much as they did. It could have been just as possible that they had two children that could care less about education, travel, money, and resented them for being successful. That's not something you know until the children are here.
I don't want children. I don't want children because I can't be the parents mine were. I want the career and I want my kids to feel the way I did about mine. I'm nowhere near that place in my life. I'm not interested in any time taken from my career at the moment, and I doubt I ever will. And guess what? My parents let me know that was okay. Seeing them let me realize my life can be whatever I want it to be.
No one knows what the effects of their parenting will be until they have children.
I remember visiting one of my besties at the hospital, after she gave birth to her second. I asked her if she was going to breastfeed him as well, seeing as she had had two children back to back. She confirmed she would, because it would be best for her. Everyone else is free to do what they like.
It reminds me of the simple reply you just typed out, can't wait to reach this level of maturity to just do me and let everyone else do them.
I'm just wondering why children become messed up if the mother isn't 'there' but no one says boo if the father isn't around because he is 'working'. Is it because it fits into the mother as nurturer, father as provider roles? Why is okay for the father to miss the school plays and the birthday parties but the mom is treated like dirt when she does?
Today's parents want to give their children the best of everything and that costs money. If you have a high paying job, chances are you'll be working long hours and times when you would rather be doing something else ( because of the poor work- life balance in this country). There are going to be times when you have to miss the school play or the occasional birthday party. There are times that the father of the child can and should be there for the child.
Each family has to figure out this balancing act of work and family for themselves- what works for my family might not work for yours. I'm not going to declare the women in the article a bad mother because she made different choices than I might have. There are enough people pointing at mothers and saying that 'you aren't doing it right' and I won't add extra guilt on a mother..
Do what you think is best for you and yours.
Title was click-bait-y, but I do understand her position. My hubby and I tag-team our kid. My career can been cyclically demanding, and hubby's business hours span all seven days in random timeframes. I am the mom who does like to attend the school events, all the doctor's appointments, etc. but my hubby takes some of the slack on those things, and for that I'm grateful, even if (very small) part of me would like to be that mom from Leave it to Beaver. I try to make the sacrifices necessary to be there for those important "unimportant" activities like being on the PTA, helping out at the school BBQ. My mom was a fantastic mom, but as a working single parent, she was rarely there at those mid-morning school assemblies or hauling me to piano rehearsal (thankful that my Granny and Granddad always stood in the gap) and I want to ensure that my kid can expect that one or both of us will be there for that level of support. I believe the upside for OUR family is that my kid's expectation is not just that "mommy" can fix it, but can rely on DADDY or MOMMY for day-to-day needs and support.
People absolutely criticize workaholic fathers as well. The workaholic father/neglected kid who is desperate for his father’s attention is a pretty common trope in movies and books as well.
Re-quoting for emphasis.
This is the kind of uncomfortable truth that one tries to suppress when one’s the mom with a pile of law school or med school loans, or the single mom who has to make ends meet. Younger generations of professional men are starting to feel it too.
Hopefully our society will tip over to the point where we make work-life balance a parenting problem rather than a women’s problem.
Not holding my breath though, especially in the legal field.
So yeah, to each family its own, but IMO that’s a cop-out from addressing the insurmountable elephant in the room.
Yes, people would rather discuss how we shouldn’t make these kinds of parents feel guilty. If we won’t even acknowledge that it is bad parenting then we can’t come up with any solutions. We are one of the only countries in the world without paid maternity leave, but people are too busy trying not to feel guilty about dropping a newborn off at daycare to insist that it is needed.
A lot of the kids raised by mothers like the ones in the OP are insisting on the exact opposite for their own children. The millennials raised by Gen X and Boomer parents are more likely to want to have a parent in the home and flexible work schedules. They are also more likely to insist on very involved fathers that share the parenting load. I think that we will get to that work life balance in the near future.