My new theory on NO-LYE VS LYE RELAXERS

[myronnie]

So I've been thinking and reading a lot about no-lye vs lye when it comes to relaxers. I've been using ORS No-Lye for about 2 years now, and I see a marked difference in my ends (only an inch) which have been relaxed with Lye relaxers (I think they stylist used Design Essentials).

I think No-lye relaxers keep some of the natural texture in the hair and Lye relaxers strip all the texture from the hair leaving it "silkier" but nonetheless thinner than with No-lye relaxers. The silkier feel may be interpreted as healthier, but I think otherwise.

My relaxed hair with no-lye has curl, thickness, and shine. It is not straight, silky, or smooth like many want to achieve when relaxing, but i think it is healthier than my bone straight ends that are thin and lifeless at times.

SO. In conclusion, I DO NOT think that no-lye relaxers damage your hair more than Lye relaxers. But I believe some people think this because of the maintainance of curl pattern and texture after a Lye relaxer. I believe if you have fine, damaged hair, no-lye is the way to go, because it results in thicker hair and is more gentle than NaOH Lye relaxers.

Also, the pH of calcium hydroxide is 12.4 (No-lye) whereas the pH of sodium hydroxide is 13 (Lye). So lye is a harsher chemical.

 

[poookie]

hmm... interesting. here's what i've found:

a relaxer's ability to straighten hair depends mostly on the amount of time it's left on the hair, and whether or not oil, silk amino acids, or other things are added to the mixture. also, the individual's hair comes into play, as those with thicker strands will not process as quickly as those with fine strands.

no lye straightens just as effectively as lye, but people tend to think that no-lye straightens better, because the lye can burn the scalp more quickly. if you're burning, you've got to rinse, and the quicker you burn, the shorter the relaxer is left on the hair.

calcium hydroxide no lye relaxers leave calcium deposits on the hair. over time, excessive calcium deposits interfere with the hair's ability to retain moisture, which is why they can be more dangerous than lye relaxers.

sodium hydroxide lye relaxers leave sodium deposits on the hair. those of you all familiar with the kiya fizzle, a.k.a., adding salt to conditioners know that salt can leave the hair feeling silkier & more moisturized.

both relaxers have their pros and cons, but they both straighten the hair just as effectively.

if you've got a tough scalp or a dependable base cream, i'd suggest going with lye, so you won't have to deal with having to remove calcium deposits.
if you've got a sensitive scalp, i'd suggest no lye. but be prepared to have to use a decalcifying shampoo every once in a while.

 

[MariposaSexyGirl]

hmm... interesting. here's what i've found:

a relaxer's ability to straighten hair depends mostly on the amount of time it's left on the hair, and whether or not oil, silk amino acids, or other things are added to the mixture. also, the individual's hair comes into play, as those with thicker strands will not process as quickly as those with fine strands.

no lye straightens just as effectively as lye, but people tend to think that no-lye straightens better, because the lye can burn the scalp more quickly. if you're burning, you've got to rinse, and the quicker you burn, the shorter the relaxer is left on the hair.

calcium hydroxide no lye relaxers leave calcium deposits on the hair. over time, excessive calcium deposits interfere with the hair's ability to retain moisture, which is why they can be more dangerous than lye relaxers.

sodium hydroxide lye relaxers leave sodium deposits on the hair. those of you all familiar with the kiya fizzle, a.k.a., adding salt to conditioners know that salt can leave the hair feeling silkier & more moisturized.

both relaxers have their pros and cons, but they both straighten the hair just as effectively.

if you've got a tough scalp or a dependable base cream, i'd suggest going with lye, so you won't have to deal with having to remove calcium deposits.
if you've got a sensitive scalp, i'd suggest no lye. but be prepared to have to use a decalcifying shampoo every once in a while.

Chelating solves this problem

 

[myronnie]

Yeah, honestly chelating right after the relaxer using a chelating shampoo like ORS Aloe (which is also a neutralizing shampoo!) negates the calcium buildup.

 

[poookie]

Chelating solves this problem

Yeah, honestly chelating right after the relaxer using a chelating shampoo like ORS Aloe (which is also a neutralizing shampoo!) negates the calcium buildup.

yep! that's the word i meant to use instead of decalcifying.

so no matter which type of relaxer (lye vs no lye) you pick, it'll get the job done!

 

[SNyeema]

So I've been thinking and reading a lot about no-lye vs lye when it comes to relaxers. I've been using ORS No-Lye for about 2 years now, and I see a marked difference in my ends (only an inch) which have been relaxed with Lye relaxers (I think they stylist used Design Essentials).

I think No-lye relaxers keep some of the natural texture in the hair and Lye relaxers strip all the texture from the hair leaving it "silkier" but nonetheless thinner than with No-lye relaxers. The silkier feel may be interpreted as healthier, but I think otherwise.

My relaxed hair with no-lye has curl, thickness, and shine. It is not straight, silky, or smooth like many want to achieve when relaxing, but i think it is healthier than my bone straight ends that are thin and lifeless at times.

SO. In conclusion, I DO NOT think that no-lye relaxers damage your hair more than Lye relaxers. But I believe some people think this because of the maintainance of curl pattern and texture after a Lye relaxer. I believe if you have fine, damaged hair, no-lye is the way to go, because it results in thicker hair and is more gentle than NaOH Lye relaxers.

Also, the pH of calcium hydroxide is 12.4 (No-lye) whereas the pH of sodium hydroxide is 13 (Lye). So lye is a harsher chemical.

This is interesting as I've found then when I use to relax, I used no-lye relaxers for just about all my life. A few years ago I switched to lye relaxers and found that I was able to keep some texture in my hair and it wasn't as thin and lifeless as it was when I was using the no-lye relaxers.

However, now that I'm natural it doesn't matter anyway (lol). Was just sharing my experience.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I started with no lye, and they seemed to eat my hair. Lye relaxers changed my life...guess it just depends on the hair.

 

[myronnie]

This is interesting as I've found then when I use to relax, I used no-lye relaxers for just about all my life. A few years ago I switched to lye relaxers and found that I was able to keep some texture in my hair and it wasn't as thin and lifeless as it was when I was using the no-lye relaxers.

However, now that I'm natural it doesn't matter anyway (lol). Was just sharing my experience.

Ha that pretty much goes against my theory but you have to look at your regime when you were relaxing with no-lye also. Was it the same when you were relaxed with lye?

 

[butterfly_wings]

Yeah I've heard/read that Lye is kinder to the scalp and more drying on the hair and No Lye is less drying on the hair but doesn't get your hair as straight. You can always active straightness with flat irons

 

[Patricia]

good analysis myronnie. I used a lye relaxer and didnt like the results so I started using no lye and my hair is noticably healthier. My hair still have some texture while my lye ends are thin. I totally agree with your finding.

 

[Aggie]

Chelating solves this problem

I wish I could say so for my fine hair.

 

[Aggie]

This is interesting as I've found then when I use to relax, I used no-lye relaxers for just about all my life. A few years ago I switched to lye relaxers and found that I was able to keep some texture in my hair and it wasn't as thin and lifeless as it was when I was using the no-lye relaxers.

However, now that I'm natural it doesn't matter anyway (lol). Was just sharing my experience.

I started with no lye, and they seemed to eat my hair. Lye relaxers changed my life...guess it just depends on the hair.

ITA, this has been the case with my experience with these relaxers. No-lye stripped my hair of most of the moisture that was in it and Lye was a lot kinder to my hair. Years ago, I was using Lye relaxers and my hair was in the best shape ever, then for some reason, I can't remember why, I switched to no-lye and my hair lost it's luster and shine, became horribly brittle and needless to say, thinner. As a result, I switched back to lye relaxers and now my hair is happy again. I love lye relaxers and will never go back to no-lye.

 

[jaszymeen]

This is interesting as I've found then when I use to relax, I used no-lye relaxers for just about all my life. A few years ago I switched to lye relaxers and found that I was able to keep some texture in my hair and it wasn't as thin and lifeless as it was when I was using the no-lye relaxers.

However, now that I'm natural it doesn't matter anyway (lol). Was just sharing my experience.

I started with no lye, and they seemed to eat my hair. Lye relaxers changed my life...guess it just depends on the hair.

ITA, this has been the case with my experience with these relaxers. No-lye stripped my hair of most of the moisture that was in it and Lye was a lot kinder to my hair. Years ago, I was using Lye relaxers and my hair was in the best shape ever, then for some reason, I can't remember why, I switched to no-lye and my hair lost it's luster and shine, became horribly brittle and needless to say, thinner. As a result, I switched back to lye relaxers and now my hair is happy again. I love lye relaxers and will never go back to no-lye.

all of this is true for my hair as well

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I'm going to also chime in lol.


I guess it must be personal preference because I've known some people to use NO-lye relaxers their whole lives and their hair seems to thrive.

Me personally however, I used to use No-lye relaxers (pre-LHCF) and my hair was thin, dry, brittle, breaking, etc.

When I joined LHCF back in 2004 (I believe??) I switched over to LYE relaxers and was on LYE for at least 4 years. My hair seemed to thrive. Even when I used reg. strength, my hair was shiny, straight, and was getting thick.

But then...I had a hair set-back late last year, and my scalp started acting funny, so I switched to NO-lye thinking that it would be gentler on my scalp and hair. Wellllll....it was definitely gentler on my scalp (No burning!), but after two touchups w/ORS Olive Oil No-lye relaxer, I think I'm going to switch back to Design Essentials reg LYE again.

Why?? Well...my hair is yet again, dry, breaking, brittle, and it frizzes up in this humidity!!

So...I'm going back to LYE relaxers. I think that as long as you protect your scalp with a GOOD base, and don't leave the relaxer on too long, you can still maintain the thickness in your hair.

 

[~Hair~Fetish~]

This is all very interesting. I had always used no-lye because I was able to leave the relaxer on as long as needed to get my hair bone straight (without burning my scalp). I've been using lye (Mizani Butter Blends) for the past 6 months and there's a noticeable difference. I have more texture with the lye and its healthier than the no lye hair. A lot less dryness and breakage than before.

 

[myronnie]

This is all very interesting. I had always used no-lye because I was able to leave the relaxer on as long as needed to get my hair bone straight (without burning my scalp). I've been using lye (Mizani Butter Blends) for the past 6 months and there's a noticeable difference. I have more texture with the lye and its healthier than the no lye hair. A lot less dryness and breakage than before.

Hm. Maybe your hair was dry because the no-lye relaxer was left on for longer to get the hair bone straight..I think that is what happens with people who aim for bone straight hair and use no-lye. They do not favor no-lye because they have to leave it on for longer, resulting in more damaged hair. Whereas with lye relaxers, they straighten to a greater extent and do not need to be left on for long to get bone straight hair.

 

[back2relaxed]

My hair is coarse and no lye definitely equates to drier hair for me. I had to constantly find something to moisturize with...DC, daily moisture, etc..it never seemed to be enough. I also used a chelating/clarifying shampoo after my relaxer and still over time, the dryness set in. On top of that my hair just had a very brittle feel...and I used all kinds of products and methods. My stylist was using phyto...I switched stylists in Feb 09, and she uses Mizani Lye..and my hair has never felt better. I still DC weekly(at least) and moisturize 2x a day, but my hair is able to hold the moisture...it is smoother and shinier, the cuticle is flat...I won't be going back to no lye...

 

[imaccami]

So, many people in this thread have said exactly what I've experienced. My hair was so dry, brittle, breaking, and without movement with no-lye. Lye was like a world apart, the two can't even be compared for me. My hair is straighter, softer, moves, no dryness, just is the best it has ever been. I switched to lye 2 or 3 years ago and I know I will never go back to no lye.

 

[LaidBak]

See its just the opposite for me. Pre LHCF I used no-lye and I had dry, brittle, bone straight hair. Now that I use lye my hair strands are able to retain some of their thickness. My hair roots (the party done with lye) are stronger and thicker than my no-lye ends. I'll be lye for life.

 

[Solitude]

I've always been a no-lye relaxer & never had any problems relaxing.

I've had a "lye" relaxer twice in my life - both times at the salon, after I forgot to specify no-lye, or didn't know to. The burning was ridiculous, and shortly after after the first time was when I had my first (only) small bald patch. Lye is the devil. I am definitely a no-lye chick.

@ OP's theory....I wonder if my use of no-lye is why I still have super-thick hair? When I hear people say that relaxers make your hair thin, I'm always like

 

[BroadstreetBully]

I'm no longer relaxed but this is totally opposite of my experience and the experiences of those around me.

Back when I got no-lye relaxers my hair always got bone straight. When I switched to lye my hair kept some texture. My mother uses no-lye, but once she used some lye relaxer we had lying around and afterward complained that it left too much wave in her hair.

The girls I know who stick to no-lye box relaxers have bone straight hair. Those who use lye still have texture. It really does depend on the hair.

 

[Solitude]

My hair is coarse and no lye definitely equates to drier hair for me. I had to constantly find something to moisturize with...DC, daily moisture, etc..it never seemed to be enough. I also used a chelating/clarifying shampoo after my relaxer and still over time, the dryness set in. On top of that my hair just had a very brittle feel...and I used all kinds of products and methods. My stylist was using phyto...I switched stylists in Feb 09, and she uses Mizani Lye..and my hair has never felt better. I still DC weekly(at least) and moisturize 2x a day, but my hair is able to hold the moisture...it is smoother and shinier, the cuticle is flat...I won't be going back to no lye...

Mizani was better for your hair than Phyto ???

I guess everyone's hair is different because Phyto leaves my hair super-soft and silky. It's a noticeable difference and I get a ton of compliments on my hair. Mizani leaves my hair stick-straight & my scalp felt sensitive and sore for days. I relax bone straight with no-lye without my hair sticking to my scalp, and there is no burning. I don't even moisturize my hair every day, and it's still not dry. I've been a no-lyer for over 10 years.

Not debating your experience, just pointing out that I've had a different experience.

I never chelate or clarify and I don't notice this supposed build-up. I do use sulfate shampoos weekly, though. I'm 4a-ish with fine strands and thick (dense) hair.

 

[queenspence]

Mizani ruined my hair last year. It set me back a good 8-10 inches. This was after using no-lye for years. You have to do whats best for your own hair. My hair always thrived with no-lye. After reading that lye wasn't good over time, I switched to lye and the rest is history.
I currently use ORS no-lye and have retained my length and dc to combat any dryness.
SO I do agree with the OP

Mizani was better for your hair than Phyto ???

I guess everyone's hair is different because Phyto leaves my hair super-soft and silky. It's a noticeable difference and I get a ton of compliments on my hair. Mizani leaves my hair stick-straight & my scalp felt sensitive and sore for days. I relax bone straight with no-lye without my hair sticking to my scalp, and there is no burning. I don't even moisturize my hair every day, and it's still not dry. I've been a no-lyer for over 10 years.

Not debating your experience, just pointing out that I've had a different experience.

I never chelate or clarify and I don't notice this supposed build-up. I do use sulfate shampoos weekly, though. I'm 4a-ish with fine strands and thick (dense) hair.

 

[locabouthair]

I'm no longer relaxed but this is totally opposite of my experience and the experiences of those around me.

Back when I got no-lye relaxers my hair always got bone straight. When I switched to lye my hair kept some texture. My mother uses no-lye, but once she used some lye relaxer we had lying around and afterward complained that it left too much wave in her hair.

The girls I know who stick to no-lye box relaxers have bone straight hair. Those who use lye still have texture. It really does depend on the hair.

I agree with this.

 

[LaidBak]

Co-signing @ no-lye box relaxers being the bomb for getting bone straight hair.
Also co-signing @ Mizani being better for my hair than Phyto. Phyto didn't do squat for me; Mizani (lye) made my hair feel like silk.

 

[imaccami]

OT: When people say bone straight what do they mean? I always thought that this was a figure of speech. Do people really have straight hair straight out of the shower? Never in my life have I had straight hair from any relaxer lye, or no lye.

I mean, I never understood why people say that they can't wear natural styles with a relaxer because I sure can. All I have to do is not blowdry and I can do twist outs and braid outs that look the same as they would if I were natural. Why does everyone have to flat iron their roots after they rollerset if their relaxer gets their hair straight? Is it because they're stretching?

Maybe I should try super...but I'm too skurred to do that.

 

[LaidBak]

OT: When people say bone straight what do they mean? I always thought that this was a figure of speech. Do people really have straight hair straight out of the shower? Never in my life have I had straight hair from any relaxer lye, or no lye.

I mean, I never understood why people say that they can't wear natural styles with a relaxer because I sure can. All I have to do is not blowdry and I can do twist outs and braid outs that look the same as they would if I were natural. Why does everyone have to flat iron their roots after they rollerset if their relaxer gets their hair straight? Is it because they're stretching?

Maybe I should try super...but I'm too skurred to do that.

Yes, it means pin-straight, right out of the shower. It also means that when the humidity is high, your hair loses ALL curl.

 

[AtlantaJJ]

I started with no lye, and they seemed to eat my hair. Lye relaxers changed my life...guess it just depends on the hair.

Fine hair girl here with lots of shrinkage in my natural hair. My hair thrives with lye relaxers. No lye eats my hair up is an excellent way to describe it.

ETA: Mizani Butter blends, and I prefer leaving texture in my hair.

 

[Nightingale]

No lye is terrible for my hair. Dryness, lack of shine, brittle hair. Lye has always worked best for me.

 

[imaccami]

Yes, it means pin-straight, right out of the shower. It also means that when the humidity is high, your hair loses ALL curl.

Thanks for answering. It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I find it very hard to believe. I'm just thinking about the number of relaxed women who flat iron after a fresh relaxer and take a picture to show their length. Why would they need to flat iron if a relaxer was all it took to get hair straight. I'm also thinking about all the threads where relaxed women ask how to workout and maintain their style. If their hair was straight they wouldn't need to do anything special after a workout.

I don't know anyone who's hair is straight after a relaxer. Maybe when people say straight they mean straighter than it would have been without the relaxer. When I say straight I mean as straight as it is after I blow dry and flat iron, no waves, no crinkles, straaaaaaaaight.

PS. I'm not trying to be a pest, I just thought about this a lot and now I'm back to thinking it's a figure of speech.