Discussion in 'Christian Fellowship' started by Iwanthealthyhair67, Apr 3, 2012.
.. This was funny....but true
ok im done
What ? ? ? ? ? ?
What does this have to do with Jesus and saving souls? Sex is not all that complicated.
Is it ... ?
RED Flag Alert... Major Red
This is not drawing people's attention to Jesus. Especially those who are lost. They already have all kinds of sexual issues going on and are trying to get free and healed from it.
How do ministries like this help and heal rape victims? Molested children? homosexuals who surely have more than enough sexual confusion in their lives? The behaviour is only compacting the problems of an already over sinfully sexed society as it is.
This is not coming from God.
No where in the Bible does God instruct Pastors/Ministers/ the Body of Christ to behave like this... especially not by defiling the House of Worship.
This is nothing but 'men going wild' with their pants on fire...
In an assembly of the Living SAINT!
The money is for what : prostitution?
Girl you are on point you hear me! Thanks sista! I agree, the world has bastardized sex and made it dirty. By golly you can't even have a conversation with someone without it getting perverted and dirty~~that's how far we have gone. Sex is a real serious issue that really should be treated sacred, this whole explore and get as many partners under your belt has ruined our society. It's turned society into sexual perverts. Women no longer want just want man, they want multiple men so they can compare sizes, Men no longer want one women, they wanna see how it feels with many different women. These days, if you have waited or only slept with your husband then you are considered odd. I mean really? Do people even realize fornicating intertwines your souls with those individuals forever? No wonder marriages are suffering and people cannot maintain relationships, people are being poisoned before they even enter marriage!
At the bolded... so on point. I can't thank you enough for speaking up.
And to add it's no wonder folks are gender and anatomically (sp?) confused ... The 'natural' use of the body has totally gotten out of control.
@LittleGoldenLamb Because its made up of different people who have different ideas about how it should be taught...All according to the word of God that they have read.
I so wish I could have been there to actually see what was being taught and how. But I dont think we should assume that there was an in-depth play-by-play instruction manual being pushed. It could have very well been a tasteful meeting that did indeed break into single sex groups for particulars...
I guess for me the scene did not cause me to recoil in horror but to wonder how its going to tie into the Word of God. There is a church that comes on sundays that I watch on tv while getting dressed for church and they had a bed on stage once. The pastor and his wife sat on the bed while they taught. This wasn't unusual for their church since they regularly use props (which there is nothing wrong with), they even had a zip line once! But I guess thats not for everyone...and thats ok...but it doesnt mean that they are operating in a spirit of error or do not teach the gospel.
But all in all everyone has to adhere to the Holy Ghost and their own conscience about how they "do" church. And its a dangerous thing to assign a motive to someones heart (not saying you did) just because you dont agree with their methods (especially when its not a sin) because there are plenty of folks who see those same actions as helpful to their spiritual and natural growth.
Sidenote: Stripper poles, seven inch heels, and dollar bills surely can be included! We should not try to "demonize" what a married couple does in their marriage bed. If its not a SIN (which we both agreed would include such things as other people, animals etc.) then yes, ANYTHING does go.
LittleGoldenLamb... great post above.
I agree wholeheartedly that the 'Church' needs to have scriptural instruction for sex regarding our children/teens/singles.
I pray that what I am about to say does not sound or seem insensitive, it's not meant to be. I can assure you.
However when it comes to a man and wife, how can sex be so complicated? It's simple, at least to me it is. What's the problem between a man and wife and sex ?
Speaking from experience...it can be.
And from what I got from the article it didnt seem like they were discussing the actual mechanics of sex but the the necessity of meeting each others needs in this area..perhaps especially in ways that many have been taught are taboo. Basically re-framing it in its rightful place.
So who makes the decision about what is "junk/perverse" and what is "holy" in the marriage bed?
Can we for real sit around (hypothetically) and tell a married couple that they shouldnt do XYZ in their marriage bed cause that will taint it?
I do totally agree that the world has perverted what God intended. But that perversion was by illicitly engaging with others that were not ones spouse and not having the committed relationship (which would include loving and cherishing your partner) that is required to experience the physical and spiritual fullness of intimacy that God intended. Thats the sick part!
Question: Are you considering a stripper pole in the bedroom perverse? or are you perhaps talking about other extremes such as sado-masichism etc.
I am sure that this is a distraction.
I think one thing we can all agree on is that church really NEEDS to minister everyone about sex. It doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, teenager, adult, single or married you need some clear cut lessons in this area because there has been so much corruption in the area of sex, people don't know what's right and what's wrong. I remember how it was being a teen in my parents church and sitting there starving to be ministered to. I mean messages like "Just be strong when that walk gets difficult" is good and all but exactly what does that mean? There were lots of vague indirect sermons like this in my parents church but that was very unfortunate because there were quite a few of us teens (and adults as well) that needed to hear a blunt message about sex! I do understand it's a very difficult topic to tackle but no need to be afraid, we really do need to take sex back and purify it again. Now me personally, using stripper poles and stripper shoes and a bed as promps is a bit too much. You really don't need to do all that to get the message across but that's my own opinion.
*sigh* Someone did not do their research on the origin of the stripper pole.
Here is a novel idea: invite the Holy Spirit into the marriage bed.
A small group setting is best for this type of topic, but that should not stop anyone from seeking His guidance on the issue. If I had known about refinement, death to self, and to ask for what He excepted of me, I would have avoided pre-marital sex altogether.
As a married woman ITA. Too much "don't do this and don't do that" doesn't help real people with real emotions and hormones. Being in church and being in the presence of the Holy Spirit leaves a person very physically and emotionally vulnerable. Emotions run high, and with people in close proximity, seeing each other all the time with all the events going on, fornication and adultry is often a result. Especially in a church full of young people, and I used to attend one. Its good to have someone minister about sex in the way God intended, and how the world has painted sex is wrong in many ways...
Girl people don't understand that THIS IS KEY to being sexually fulfilled in the marriage bed. Its about your mind in the situation. I tell people all the time, in a marriage, God can fix any situation that needs help. Even sex. When sex in a marriage is not good it can ruin that marriage. People don't know, YOU CAN ASK GOD to help you and your spouse in the sex department. I'll put myself out there and share that at one point sex was getting a little mundane between me and hubby. I wasn't frustrated YET..but I was getting there. So I said a quick prayer and trusted God to handle it however he saw fit. I told God I want to excite my husband, and I want us to enjoy it 1000% again...And it worked. And it still works...It had a lot to do with us just being so busy....And we are still busy, even more now than ever, but we enjoy it so much more.... THAT is how you allow the Holy spirit to enter your marriage bed. The marriage bed is really any and everywhere. Because your DH has to make love to your mind too as well as your body. Our perspective of sex is SO backwards in this day and age. I applaud this minister for being bold enough in the Holy Spirit to even approach this subject.
Hey LittleGoldenLamb, I'm soooooo late! Sorry lol
Sis I know you're not being combative! lol. We just seem to be on the same page with some things but leagues apart on others.
I just see it like this:
The Bible has been specific on what is a sin concerning sexual relations but we have personal preferences concerning other things, and no one has the right to make their personal preference into a right/wrong or sin/pure issue in another persons marriage.
We agree, For example: The Bible says no bestiality, no sex with (including lusting after) people you're not married to, no rape, homosexuality etc.
But we disagree here: It does NOT say no stripper poles. I know! I know! I'm not splitting hairs here, what I mean is that it did not say that this "position/act" is holy/pure etc and this "position/act" isnt, this way of intimacy is ok (outside of the above mentioned) and this way isnt. So if the married couple wants to put mirrors on the ceiling and install a swing set in their bedroom for their pleasure...then where in the Bible is the premise that this is wrong/vile/profane (even if the world did do it first)?
Because there are plenty of things (sexually related or not) that the world invented that we adopt (cheerfully) into our lifestyles. For this example; lingerie, birth control, KY (and other sensual oils), "moodsetting" music, toys, rotating beds (lol) etc. (And I am fully aware that even with this short list I named some people will agree with some and not others but we have to be careful in what we label a "sin" when its really just our personal preferences)
My point is, it is not the specific acts of sexual intimacy that are sins or not sins...it is the condition under which they are performed that classifies then as wrong. A stripper pole in a club...sinful!...A stripper pole in a married couples bedroom...not sinful! Another example...I really like dancing but will rarely dance in public because I dance really sexy and explicit (what is considered normal in todays clubs lol). But I see nothing wrong with droppin it like its hot (even without music) for my hubby! Once again, not the actual act in and of itself that is wrong...its the setting/conditions under which that act is played out that makes it wrong.
On another note:
I do understand how some may think the Pastor is doing too much. But assigning sinful intent to the Pastors and congregations motivation for coming to the class based on ones own disapproval of the picture shown is out of line.
Why would we assume that this Church somehow doesn't preach the gospel because they had this class? Why would we assume that the Church isnt packed on Sunday Mornings as well as this friday for the class? Why are we assuming that the people that came to that class had even seen the set beforehand and it was lust that drove them to attend the session? There's a lot of assumption going on based off of a picture...Its perfectly ok to think the bedroom scene was inappropriate without having further insight on what actually took place but its not ok to assign sinful (heart) motives and actions without proper evidence.
But at the end of the day...if my DH had a foot fetish (and I dont care if he was born with the inclination or he picked it up in the world) I would be at the nail shop every other day fulfilling his fantasy and letting him have his way with these little piggies. And there is no way that I would believe it was sinful to do so.
ok! It is hard to keep it G-rated but I really am trying not to offend anyone with my language or examples whether you agree with me or not...hope I succeeded!
^^^That is so true! Great example (meat of the idols)!
I don't really think this is about "stripping" per se, though that word automatically has negative connotations. With respect to the picture in the op, I am fairly sure that stripping is being thought of in the context of strip clubs because the picture shows a bunch of dollar bills all around. So many people are being socialized to express themselves sexually in certain ways through what has been seen and done around them.
I see a woman dancing for her husband, and a husband thinking of his wife like the strippers he used to throw money at as very different things. It's just a different spirit.
Is this really that pastor? I've never seen so many side eyes at once.
This reminds me of an experience I had at a church. I would visit their friday evening open mic nights and there was always this theme from the men about lust and impure thoughts. They would talk about how difficult it was to watch some of the female performers, but how they were holding strong.
Eventually, all this talk about "godly sexuality" really started to seem like a strong indication that these men had not conquered the spirit of lust in them at all. They kept harping on it because that spirit was still dominating them. I mean, they were basically talking about how they were lusting after the Christian women singing on stage. Something I later saw with a leader and a couple of women in the church ended up confirming it.
So just because sex is being spoken of in a spiritual context does not mean that the conversation is flowing from the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for making this clear.
Nicola, I've witnessed so many 'fall'. (Note: Now to me one falling is 'so many').
But... yeah... I've witnessed so many fall. *sigh* And the catalyst 'seemed' to be due to messages like this coming from the pulpit.
Nicola, back in the late 80's and into the 90's there arose a spirit of divorces flooding Chrisitian marriages. 'You' (general sense) turn around and it was one marriage after another falling apart and it was CRAZY... a whirlwind of pure craziness. I mean in the pulpit crazy.
And you know when it started... at least from my witness. When 'sex' became too topical in the sermons and Bible studies.
Nicola... I can name names... Oh yes I can. I won't, but trust me I can name names.
Bottomline, sex was not being taught under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It was being taught without restraint; without regard to the Holiness of it.
It became a subject of the flesh and not of marriage joined in spirit, soul and body. It was to the point where it was no different than folks in the world laughing and joking about sex and it was just too far off the path of holiness.
I totally agree that we need to have correct sex counseling and taught in levels of age appropriateness and to the appropriate audience / church members. Church should not mimick or even come near the atmosphere of a Bolero; it is not a 'club' or parlor of pleasure. Church is a place of worship; no where should there be any other activity of the flesh present.
Nicola, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you are an 'Observer'. You observe, wait and listen to what the Holy Spirit is showing you. This is your 'gift', your gift among many which God has bestowed upon you. God's wisdom is what you cherish and it shows in you well.
I just wanna say you ladies are all on point. It's refreshing and encouraging to read your posts. It's nice to be in the company of strong women when you are struggling with this topic. Thank you!
Amein... thanks button not enough for this truth nugget..
Well I can speak for myself, but when I get married its certain things I am not doing. I will let my spouse know ahead of time, so its no surprises
Thank you, I really appreciate that.