Real Talk....

gymfreak336

New Member
As members of this board, we are all here for the same reasons; to learn how to take care of our hair. We test products and techniques, report back with our findings and hope that along the way we find out something to help us and hope that we contribute helpful information along the way. I love hair and I love reading and researching anything hair related. During my time here I have gone through hundreds of product reviews, Rants and Raves, seeing horrible set backs (mine included), and I have seen many ladies reach their goals. I have asked countless questions and cried through my problems as I lended on your all for your support. :bighug: During this time I have noticed some trends and I think I have some theories to help explain them.

I guess you can call this my manifesto of sort.:lol: Its my reading of the reasoning behind what we do what we do and why somethings work for some and not others. I don't have all the answers, much of what I have learned has come at my own expense with my hair and many times lack there of :look: I don't think any advice is all inclusive, there are always exceptions to the rule (I got more to add to that but I'll save that for later)
Eitherway, All I can do is share and get feedback so here we go......................................................................................................

I know sometimes we feel like we are just shooting in the dark but there really is a method behind this madness :lol: The big secret.....your cuticle :yep:..... Thats right your cuticle. Your hair cuticle is going to be your guide to finding the products that work for you and what methods are going to be the most benefical to your hair success.

First off you need to know if your hair is fine or thick, then you need to look at your hair type. NOW lets step out of the 3a, 3b,3c etc...box. We all know that that system isn't all inclusive and I am not going to pretend like it is but the degree of curl in your hair is going to help tell you clues about what it needs. Hair is hair but is just not "hair". Hair is like soda, all soda fundamentally is sugar and water but there are different flavors. Sprite is not Dr. Pepper. So first off is it fine or thick. Is it Sprite or Coke. Fine and Thick is going to help guide you into knowing about where your cuticle in stands in terms of layers and overall construction. Fine hair naturally doesn't have as many layers of cuticle as thicker hair. So what does that mean to you???


Think of your cuticle as your Crystal Ball. Its is going to help predict what is going to plague you and what the potential cure could be. To Demonstrate this lets take dryness as an example.

We all get bouts of dryness but why??

Fine hair with its few cuticle layers gets dry alot because of being overly porous. The cuticle isn't laying flat and tight so its losing moisture as quickly as it can get it.

Thicker hair....Thicker hair usually has more and tighter cuticle layers which can make it hard for moisture to get into the hair so the hair is dry.

So how to do we fix it....We condition it. The conditioner is going to help fix both problems though in two different ways. Fine hair...the conditioner is going to seal the cracks in the cuticle and help lay it flat and tight thus preventing moisture loss. Thick hair...conditioning agents are going to phsyically help bind coat the hair with conditioning agents to help attract and seal in moisture since they might not be able to pentrate the hair shaft as much. Kinda like frosting a cake. The frosting is going to seal in the moisture all ready in the cake and provide a layer that helps keeps a constant envelope of moisture around it.


So what does this mean....This goes to the affinity of certain ingredients to certain hair types. Lets take the widely debated silicone. Silicone is an occulsive agent, it helps seal things in and since its a flexible polymer it adds flexibility to the hair strand. This is why alot of thick heads love it and thrive with conditioners full of. Since their cuticle is tighter and more plentiful (in terms of layers), the silicone is sealing in all the conditioner goodness and water. This is also why alot of fine heads can't do alot of silicone at a time...the cuticle isn't as plentiful so it builds up faster. Now silicone is benefical to both heads but just in magnitude and method. You also see this in leave in application. This is also why some people have better results with using leave ins on soaking wet hair and others towel dry before adding it. Many fine hair ladies get better results towel drying the hair. Since the cuticle can't hold as much, removing the excess water allows the working ingredients in the leave in to seal in the cracks in the cuticle. If the hair is soaking wet, the leave in can't "get" to where it needs to go. While thicker head have more and thicker cuticle so that isn't as big of a problem. They usually see more benefits from putting leave in on wetter hair.

Now some ingredients work well for both but again for different reasons. For example, lets use SAA. Silk is a godsend for many of us. This stuff adds strength and protects like nobodies business. Now fine hair is more easily weighted down so silk is great because it sinks in and adds strength without weighting the hair down. For thicker head, silk is able to pentrate the more plentiful cuticle because of its low molecular weight. Since silk is a protein, it is going to help bind moisture into the hair which is especially good for thicker heads with tighter cuticles. This is why alot of thicker heads can use more mild protein intensive conditioners on regular basis with a more moisturizing effect. This is also why the concentrations of SAA are higher in the products for thicker hair.

We can take it a little further with silk. Many products that are designed to be used in preparation for thermal straightening have alot of silk in them. The silk helps protect the hair against heat damage but heat also helps drive the silk into the hair strand. So if you have thick hair with tight cuticles, this would be even more benefical to you.
It really comes down to fundamental needs. While all hair types can and will go through similar problems ( Protein overload, too much moisture, etc...) The method and reasoning behind fixing it is different. While the same product could be used, the reason it is working could be different for both. This is also why some products (ORS replenishing, Pantene mask, Aveda DR, Kenra MC just to name a few) work well across the board. Its could be producing a desirable effect just in different ways.

Again, these are just my ideas based on the general consensus here about certain products and technques and who has had more success with what. I don't intend for this to solve every problem or explain every last issue and this is the extremely condensed version :lol:


We can't talk about cuticles without approaching porosity and the pH of your products. You cuticles are going to guide you into knowing if your shampoo needs to have a low pH or a higher one. Higher pH shampoo's usually are more "conditioning" shampoos and they are usually the ones that are marketed towards African Americans. There is a reason why Kercare shampoo and conditioner usually works very well for thicker more coarse hair types (not saying that everyone who uses it has that hair type but if you watch the trends you will see what I mean) and why cream of nature seems to instantly soften the hair upon contact BUT..........I think I have rambled enough for today. I'll save that for another time.
 
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delp

Well-Known Member
Good Stuff... You have me thinking... I wish we had a List of relaxers that is best for fine and for thick hair. Wow. Thanks.
 

IntoMyhair

New Member
My hair loves Con poo but not keracare. Is this a high or low PH product?
The Con poo's i mean.
Thanks for the info Gymfreak.
 

*Happily Me*

Well-Known Member
but, the thing I dont get is i have fine strands but a lot of hair. could it be that because it's so much hair i wasn't moisturizing every strand?

anyhoo, i found chi silk and my hair loves it!! it's like, i wanna by 3 bottles at a time to ensure i don't run out of it!

this was a very interesting read. I'll start paying more attention to my hair.

thanks!

this IS 5 star worthy :)
 

gymfreak336

New Member
but, the thing I dont get is i have fine strands but a lot of hair. could it be that because it's so much hair i wasn't moisturizing every strand?
anyhoo, i found chi silk and my hair loves it!! it's like, i wanna by 3 bottles at a time to ensure i don't run out of it!

this was a very interesting read. I'll start paying more attention to my hair.

thanks!

this IS 5 star worthy :)

It could have been that all along. I have fine hair but alot of it too :lol: Not as much as you, I wish I did though. Its not about thin or thick, its about indivual strands. Focus on what the nature of your strands is telling you. To deal with thin and thick in terms of density, just modify the amount of product you are using. I probably use more leave in than most fine heads but I really work it in and make sure all my hair is covered since its easy for me to miss spots.
 

*Happily Me*

Well-Known Member
It could have been that all along. I have fine hair but alot of it too :lol: Not as much as you, I wish I did though. Its not about thin or thick, its about indivual strands. Focus on what the nature of your strands is telling you. To deal with thin and thick in terms of density, just modify the amount of product you are using. I probably use more leave in than most fine heads but I really work it in and make sure all my hair is covered since its easy for me to miss spots.

ah! i see :) I'm learning to be extra gentle as the strands of my hair are very fragile

i find that i have to put the stuff in while my hair is wet. putting anything on dry hair for me is a waste of product
 

gymfreak336

New Member
ah! i see :) I'm learning to be extra gentle as the strands of my hair are very fragile

i find that i have to put the stuff in while my hair is wet. putting anything on dry hair for me is a waste of product

Same here. I put everthing I need on my wet hair. I find that putting moisturizer on my hair after its dried does next to nothing. I can't rely on that anymore
 

JerriBlank

Well-Known Member
Gym you are on it:yep:
This and the previous post about the top 10 things is on point!!!
Another totally useful post!!
 

january noir

Sunny On a Cloudy Day
Great thread Gym!

It could have been that all along. I have fine hair but alot of it too :lol: Not as much as you, I wish I did though. Its not about thin or thick, its about indivual strands. Focus on what the nature of your strands is telling you. To deal with thin and thick in terms of density, just modify the amount of product you are using

I realized this too a few months ago. I have fine hair that's thin too. I spend more time applying my conditioners now because I was missing spots. I spend time massaging it in and on the hair and it does feel good too! :yep:

I probably use more leave in than most fine heads but I really work it in and make sure all my hair is covered since its easy for me to miss spots.
 

Sistaslick

New Member
Higher pH shampoo's usually are more "conditioning" shampoos and they are usually the ones that are marketed towards African Americans. There is a reason why Kercare shampoo and conditioner usually works very well for thicker more coarse hair types (not saying that everyone who uses it has that hair type but if you watch the trends you will see what I mean) and why cream of nature seems to instantly soften the hair upon contact BUT..........I think I have rambled enough for today. I'll save that for another time.

Great post Gym!!! ITA with each and every word. Especially, the Keracare. Keracare is pretty mineral oil heavy, and folks with thicker hair are able to take the "coating" a little better than those of us with fine hair. My hair went limp after using KeraCare, it was just too much. :lachen:

I've even found with Kenra, I'm liking the volumizing formula (fine hair) better than the moisturizing formula. The moisturizing line is awesome, but it's chock full of heavy emollients that'd work better for someone with thicker strands. The volumizing formula contains light "elasticity" proteins and gives my fine strands the umph and perkiness they need while giving me a net moisture benefit. The consistency of the volumizing line is slighly more watery than the moisturizing formula, and I used to think that watery= cheap/rip off. (Well usually it does :lachen:) But the slight formula variation really makes a big difference.:yep:


The bolded is where I got a little confused, though. :giggle:

I've never heard the bit about pH being related to the conditioning power of shampoos, put in that way (high ph poos=more conditioning). :scratchch For shampoos, the particular detergents used in the shampoo, their concentrations, and the presence (or absence) of emollients are what matter the most for conditioning power. That is best achieved with a lower pH shampoo product, something with a normalizing pH. The "conditioning-ness" of most AA shampoos is oil and cones, not a function of pH.

The gentlest shampoos are those in the normalizing range, regardless of hair type or condition. You'd want a shampoo that helps keeps your hair in the normal acidic range, and even more acidic if your hair is naturally porous. Exposing your hair regularly to even slightly higher pHs can weaken protein linkages, roughen up, split, crack and do all kinds of stuff to your scalp and cuticles. :nono: The conventional wisdom is that high pH poos lead to scalp irritation and dryness because they aggravate the acidic hair and scalp mantle. They can also create an environment for bacteria/fungi as well. :ohwell: Your conditioner can balance this out (and even the emollients/conditioners within the shampoo itself), but it's really best to keep the pHs low all around.

Only time you want to venture near higher pHs is if you are relaxing your hair, everything else needs be slighly acidic.
 

gymfreak336

New Member
Great post Gym!!! ITA with each and every word. Especially, the Keracare. Keracare is pretty mineral oil heavy, and folks with thicker hair are able to take the "coating" a little better than those of us with fine hair. My hair went limp after using KeraCare, it was just too much. :lachen:

I've even found with Kenra, I'm liking the volumizing formula (fine hair) better than the moisturizing formula. The moisturizing line is awesome, but it's chock full of heavy emollients that'd work better for someone with thicker strands. The volumizing formula contains light "elasticity" proteins and gives my fine strands the umph and perkiness they need while giving me a net moisture benefit. The consistency of the volumizing line is slighly more watery than the moisturizing formula, and I used to think that watery= cheap/rip off. (Well usually it does :lachen:) But the slight formula variation really makes a big difference.:yep:


The bolded is where I got a little confused, though. :giggle:

I've never heard the bit about pH being related to the conditioning power of shampoos, put in that way (high ph poos=more conditioning). :scratchch For shampoos, the particular detergents used in the shampoo, their concentrations, and the presence (or absence) of emollients are what matter the most for conditioning power. That is best achieved with a lower pH shampoo product, something with a normalizing pH. The "conditioning-ness" of most AA shampoos is oil and cones, not a function of pH.

The gentlest shampoos are those in the normalizing range, regardless of hair type or condition. You'd want a shampoo that helps keeps your hair in the normal acidic range, and even more acidic if your hair is naturally porous. Exposing your hair regularly to even slightly higher pHs can weaken protein linkages, roughen up, split, crack and do all kinds of stuff to your scalp and cuticles. :nono: The conventional wisdom is that high pH poos lead to scalp irritation and dryness because they aggravate the acidic hair and scalp mantle. They can also create an environment for bacteria/fungi as well. :ohwell: Your conditioner can balance this out (and even the emollients/conditioners within the shampoo itself), but it's really best to keep the pHs low all around.

Only time you want to venture near higher pHs is if you are relaxing your hair, everything else needs be slighly acidic.

Hey Sistaslick! I was hoping you would stop buy.

@the bolded.....I put conditioning in "" because people usually assume that these conditioners are more conditioning because alot of people say their hair is softer after using them. There cuticle is wide open so if feels soft. From looking at who uses what and the amount of time they have been using it, it seems that the ladies who use these the most have really tight cuticle so my conclusion is that the higher ph shampoo's are helping loosen the cuticle to let more conditioning ingredients inside. It seems that companies all assume me have hard coarse thick hair so they jack the pH's up. I realized over the past month that this was THE cause of my scalp issues. I am willing to bet that 80% of the people here that think they have dandruff really just have an irrtated scalp from the pH of their shampoos.
 
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LaManda

New Member
I am a newbie to LCHF and this post along with the "10 things..." have helped me curve my PJism and truly keep me focused on healthy hair. Thanks for compling your research into words and sharing with us.
 

Sistaslick

New Member
Hey Sistaslick! I was hoping you would stop buy.

@the bolded.....I put conditioning in "" because people usually assume that these conditioners are more conditioning because alot of people say their hair is softer after using them. There cuticle is wide open so if feels soft. From looking at who uses what and the amount of time they have been using it, it seems that the ladies who use these the most have really tight cuticle so my conclusion is that the higher ph shampoo's are helping loosen the cuticle to let more conditioning ingredients inside. It seems that companies all assume me have hard coarse thick hair so they jack the pH's up. I realized over the past month that this was THE cause of my scalp issues. I am willing to bet that 80% of the people here that think they have dandruff really just have an irrtated scalp from the pH of their shampoos.


Now you know I had to come up in here. :lachen: I love info sessions. :lachen: I'm short on time (got some readings to do :lachen:) , but I'll be back with some thoughts on this . . . :yep:
 

gymfreak336

New Member
Now you know I had to come up in here. :lachen: I love info sessions. :lachen: I'm short on time (got some readings to do :lachen:) , but I'll be back with some thoughts on this . . . :yep:

Please come back. I was hoping you could help me clarify and sort through some of my thoughts.

Oh yeah, with this issue, I also think they kinda do it on purpose to make convince you that you need to use their whole line since the rest of the products should bring the pH back down. Either way, I can't buy stuff like that. My scalp would pack up and leave :driver: My hair has gotten a taste for Kenra and Jocio, there is no going back now :lol:
 

tiffers

Whisper "bleep boop" to yourself when you're sad.
We can't talk about cuticles without approaching porosity and the pH of your products. You cuticles are going to guide you into knowing if your shampoo needs to have a low pH or a higher one. Higher pH shampoo's usually are more "conditioning" shampoos and they are usually the ones that are marketed towards African Americans. There is a reason why Kercare shampoo and conditioner usually works very well for thicker more coarse hair types (not saying that everyone who uses it has that hair type but if you watch the trends you will see what I mean) and why cream of nature seems to instantly soften the hair upon contact BUT..........I think I have rambled enough for today. I'll save that for another time.

Aaaaw, gym, you gon' leave us hangin like that? :lol:

**tapping feet and impatiently waiting for the next installment**
 
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