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Telling the truth in love-- any advice? (sorry long)

golden bronze

New Member
I have an issue that I would like to get some opinions about. There is a situation dealt with differently by two people about the same subject that taught me a lesson.

I should first state my disclaimer. I am not of the hyper vigalant ilk that rabidly names homosexuality as the cause of all depravity in the world. It is a sin, just like any other sin, and should be treated as such the same way we treat lying or adultry or greed. Usually people use it as a political or personal banner to show that they are more holy than someone else, instead of ministering to an individual who is hurting and needs the love of Jesus to transform them and turn them from sin.

That said, I have a dear friend, who I will call "Tarik" that loosely terms himself as gay. I have known him for years, and I love him. He is a Christian and I believe him when he says he loves the Lord, but I know he is struggling with his walk. I've had conversations with him over the years about this and his relationship with God, but not recently.

An ex of mine who I will call "Joe" is Tarik's childhood best friend. Joe was saved about four years ago, and since then, he has separated from the group of people we used to associate with, inlcuding Tarik. Part of it is probably for good reason-- I think he wants not to associate with those he believes will bring him to sin. The other part of it is because Joe is afraid of being close to people, and I suspect he uses his "walk" as a way to avoid dealing with people honestly. Joe knows about Tarik's sexuality, and has always been uncomfortable about it since he learned of it.

Tarik is hurt that Joe no longer talks to him, after they were so close for all those years. Tarik has been out of town recently and has not seen Joe for months. One day Joe sent Tarik a text message basically admonishing and rebuking him about his lifestyle. I'm pretty sure Joe felt it placed on his heart to do this. I also believe Joe loves Tarik, but the coldness of the way it was done overhsadowed the message, and it came across as piety. Joe also struggles with fornication, and this made the message seem hollow to Tarik.

I contrast this with a conversation my sister had with Tarik recently. She didn't condemn him in her conversation right off. She first asked questions about why he was doing what he was doing, without baiting him. After listening to him, My she told Tarik she didn't believe Tarik is gay at all. She believes that he is hurting and angry about things that happened when he was young, and is looking for a father's love. She believes that he is filling his need for God's love with men and meaningless relationships that are unsatisfying now even to him. She confronted him about it, and he admitted that that was at the root of what was going on with him, and he wasn't satisfied with his relationships with men. He even admitted that he was still attracted to women, but he didn't act on those attractions because he was scared of what that may mean. I don't think he has ever had this conversation with anyone else.

The greater issue wasn't him sleeping with men, the real issue is that in his desire for God's love that he is seeking from human beings.


It got me thinking about Jesus' ministry. When he was casting out something he always spoke to "it" and not to the person who was being held down by the stronghold. How many times have we had someone in our life that we rush to tell "truth" to, without first really listening to what it is that they are going through?

Any thoughts?
 

dreamer26

New Member
This is such a good topic of conversation because we can all be guilty of this if we are not careful.

In the year of 2000 God began to deal with me about my calling. Every day for days when I would wake I would hear "Cry Loud and Spare Not", one day I called my brother who's a Pastor and I asked him what do you think God is trying to say to me? He told me that there's a word he wants you to deliver to someone or somebodies. I began to seek the Lord and when I read the scripture Isaish 58:1, the end of that verse says and tell my people of their transgressions. I told God I can't tell anybody about their sins because I have sins myself.

The Lord spoke to me and said I know you do so when I tell you to go you will go in my name and remember had it not been for my grace it could be you.

I mean that has spoke volumes to me because God has used me to speak to some tough issues but I thank him that I have only be the messenger but God has been the surgeon. I mean there's a difference when God uses one to minister verses just giving an opinion.

Also to the one that is ministering it is good to have a life lining up with the word as much as possible. Most people, long before they hear what you say they see what you do.

So I always remember when restoring or speaking to a hard issue in someone elses life that if it was not for God's grace there go I and everytime it leads to minister in love. As a matter of fact when I know I'm going to talk to someone about something they need to get rid of, or clean up I think back on when I was struggling with something and how God used someone to reach me and that puts me in the right posture.

Remember Jesus did not come into this world to condemn it but that the world might be saved.

Yes we should speak truth in love and be lead of God because these are his people and only he can turn the heart of men.

Sorry for being long.

Be blessed.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Golden heart, set in Bronze...

GoldenBronze, "Love Never Fails."

You have the right heart for this situation. To love one into their deliverance. We all have a 'Tarik' in our lives in one relationship or another.

While we disagree with the 'act', we still love the one (or ones) who are active. When I'm with my gay friends, I do not see homosexuality, I see my friend that I love and would take anything for him. Nothing...:nono:

Yet they both know how I feel about homosexuality (the ACT) but even more, they know how much I love them. These two men would do anything for me, yes me and all of my 'word' and holiness'... :drunk:. Yet they wait upon me and treat me with so much love.

I can pray for them and look them in the eye and say I love you and they know I mean it. Yet, I still speak the truth in love. And what is this truth? That their lifestyle is not God's best. And they agree; and rather than 'crush' them, we leave it alone and allow God to lead them in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.

For God says in His word, a bruised reed He will not crush. God will not kick a man when He is down. And both of these men are 'down' and have lost their way. They are looking for a loving hand to pull them up and out.

Joe is looking through a glass darkly; for how can he rebuke Tarik of a sin that he is also guilty of. Both are having sex outside of marriage...same sin; same struggle. (mind you, I am aware that homosexuality has other spirits attached to it which need to be cast out, but I think you understand when I say it's still the same sin).

Golden you carry the greatest gift of all. Love. Do you know that every testimony that I've heard of a homosexual deliverance came about from someone who loved them? The sin was not loved, neither advocated or pacified. But the person was 'loved' out.

So Golden Bronze, Love both of these men. Lecture them as God leads. And yes there will be strong reprimands that God will lead you to speak. But they will heal and not wound. For as I opened this post, 'you have a golden heart, set in bronze; hence from the abundance of your heart, so shall your mouth speak...in love. :heart2:
 

golden bronze

New Member
Thank you, Ladies. Your words have opened up the fresh fragrance of the holy spirit on this matter. I have struggled with this situation on my heart, and I want to make sure that whatever I speak, I speak in love.

I agree Shimmie that the most important thing to show our borthers and sisters is our love, because love, when rooted in its Father, is transformation.

I remember when the Lord was dealing with me on some issues, and I had a kind word spoken to me in love. I was walking to the train station on my way home one night, when a man, whom I did not know, came out of a local restaraunt. He looked as if he worked there, but he had an unearthliness about him.

He asked me where I was going, and I told him that I was hopping on the train to get home.At the time, I had just come froma workout and had on a pink long sleeved shirt that said "Jeans Co." He looked in the direction of my heart and said, "Jesus Cares." Simply thinking that he'd misread the shirt I was going to respond, but before the words could exit he said, "Do you believe that he cares?" I said yes, but at the time-- a fairly truthful answer. After all I knew he died for my sins and was the son of God. Had it been anyone else asking this question, in any other way I probably would've been offended. But he asked in such love.

The truth is I didn't believe that Jesus cared about my struggles enough to intervene. Perhaps sensing that it was unsafe for me to walk alone at night, the man told me to wait, locked his shop, and walked me to the train station. When I got there, I realized I'd lost my fare money. He paid my fare home.

I believe now, that that man, was not a man, if you know what I mean. I will always remember him. How many people could we really minister to if we showed them love?
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Thank you, Ladies. Your words have opened up the fresh fragrance of the holy spirit on this matter. I have struggled with this situation on my heart, and I want to make sure that whatever I speak, I speak in love.

I agree Shimmie that the most important thing to show our borthers and sisters is our love, because love, when rooted in its Father, is transformation.

I remember when the Lord was dealing with me on some issues, and I had a kind word spoken to me in love. I was walking to the train station on my way home one night, when a man, whom I did not know, came out of a local restaraunt. He looked as if he worked there, but he had an unearthliness about him.

He asked me where I was going, and I told him that I was hopping on the train to get home.At the time, I had just come froma workout and had on a pink long sleeved shirt that said "Jeans Co." He looked in the direction of my heart and said, "Jesus Cares." Simply thinking that he'd misread the shirt I was going to respond, but before the words could exit he said, "Do you believe that he cares?" I said yes, but at the time-- a fairly truthful answer. After all I knew he died for my sins and was the son of God. Had it been anyone else asking this question, in any other way I probably would've been offended. But he asked in such love.

The truth is I didn't believe that Jesus cared about my struggles enough to intervene. Perhaps sensing that it was unsafe for me to walk alone at night, the man told me to wait, locked his shop, and walked me to the train station. When I got there, I realized I'd lost my fare money. He paid my fare home.

I believe now, that that man, was not a man, if you know what I mean. I will always remember him. How many people could we really minister to if we showed them love?
This is a beautiful testimony GoldenBronze. You met an actual angel that night. God was there, looking out for you, and bringing you to Himself.

God bless you and give both 'Tarik' and 'Joe' a great big hug from all of us. Yes...we love them. Two 'fine' brothers indeed. :yep: satan has to take his nasty hands off of them, in Jesus's name.

To our men... :bighug:
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Galatians 6:1-2 NKJV

We love "Joe" and "Tarik".... :heart:
 

golden bronze

New Member
This is a beautiful testimony GoldenBronze. You met an actual angel that night. God was there, looking out for you, and bringing you to Himself.

God bless you and give both 'Tarik' and 'Joe' a great big hug from all of us. Yes...we love them. Two 'fine' brothers indeed. :yep: satan has to take his nasty hands off of them, in Jesus's name.

To our men... :bighug:

A-men to that! I believe God will deliver them both. :)

I truly think that there are angels walking among us, and most of the time they don't reveal themselves. The funny thing about it is that I went by that same place every day, and I never saw that man again. I even asked the employees if they knew anyone who fit that description, and they said they didn't.
 

chicacanella

New Member
I have an issue that I would like to get some opinions about. There is a situation dealt with differently by two people about the same subject that taught me a lesson.

I should first state my disclaimer. I am not of the hyper vigalant ilk that rabidly names homosexuality as the cause of all depravity in the world. It is a sin, just like any other sin, and should be treated as such the same way we treat lying or adultry or greed. Usually people use it as a political or personal banner to show that they are more holy than someone else, instead of ministering to an individual who is hurting and needs the love of Jesus to transform them and turn them from sin.

That said, I have a dear friend, who I will call "Tarik" that loosely terms himself as gay. I have known him for years, and I love him. He is a Christian and I believe him when he says he loves the Lord, but I know he is struggling with his walk. I've had conversations with him over the years about this and his relationship with God, but not recently.

An ex of mine who I will call "Joe" is Tarik's childhood best friend. Joe was saved about four years ago, and since then, he has separated from the group of people we used to associate with, inlcuding Tarik. Part of it is probably for good reason-- I think he wants not to associate with those he believes will bring him to sin. The other part of it is because Joe is afraid of being close to people, and I suspect he uses his "walk" as a way to avoid dealing with people honestly. Joe knows about Tarik's sexuality, and has always been uncomfortable about it since he learned of it.

Tarik is hurt that Joe no longer talks to him, after they were so close for all those years. Tarik has been out of town recently and has not seen Joe for months. One day Joe sent Tarik a text message basically admonishing and rebuking him about his lifestyle. I'm pretty sure Joe felt it placed on his heart to do this. I also believe Joe loves Tarik, but the coldness of the way it was done overhsadowed the message, and it came across as piety. Joe also struggles with fornication, and this made the message seem hollow to Tarik.

I contrast this with a conversation my sister had with Tarik recently. She didn't condemn him in her conversation right off. She first asked questions about why he was doing what he was doing, without baiting him. After listening to him, My she told Tarik she didn't believe Tarik is gay at all. She believes that he is hurting and angry about things that happened when he was young, and is looking for a father's love. She believes that he is filling his need for God's love with men and meaningless relationships that are unsatisfying now even to him. She confronted him about it, and he admitted that that was at the root of what was going on with him, and he wasn't satisfied with his relationships with men. He even admitted that he was still attracted to women, but he didn't act on those attractions because he was scared of what that may mean. I don't think he has ever had this conversation with anyone else.

The greater issue wasn't him sleeping with men, the real issue is that in his desire for God's love that he is seeking from human beings.


It got me thinking about Jesus' ministry. When he was casting out something he always spoke to "it" and not to the person who was being held down by the stronghold. How many times have we had someone in our life that we rush to tell "truth" to, without first really listening to what it is that they are going through?

Any thoughts?


You know, I am dealing with a similiar issue with my friend. She fornicates and she knows it isn't what God wants her to do but I think she has been doing it for so long that she may not have any guilt. I just pray God uses me in a way that helps her live according to His standards.
 

SoulElegance

New Member
Now I truly believe in the spirit of The Father and his Son. I would not call myself religious because I am not. I call myself a spirtitualist. I have recieved many blessings for the help I give to others. I have studied the history of religion and christianity. Researched its origin. I am wondering why so many quote the bible and live their life by it so strongly and not know the true history of the King James bible. Do you know the history of the King James Bible and how it originated and why? Did you know that the oldest bible in the world dated 325 is the Alexandrian Bible and the only record in that bible of Jesus is when he was 33 years old? Did you know that the Alexandrian Bible (325) has no virgin birth of Jesus? Do you know why Constantine created the King James Bible?

I grew up a Baptist. Grew up on the King James Bible. I decided to research it one day and was very surprised in regard to what I found out. The King James Bible is full of stories, fables, and untruths. If you want to feel the REAL love of the Father then you have to step outside the box and go against what was taught to you. You have to research what religion is really about. Now I do not mean any disrespect. Just want some to open their eyes to what has been done in the name of religous beliefs and why.

I send you my blessings.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Now I truly believe in the spirit of The Father and his Son. I would not call myself religious because I am not. I call myself a spirtitualist. I have recieved many blessings for the help I give to others. I have studied the history of religion and christianity. Researched its origin. I am wondering why so many quote the bible and live their life by it so strongly and not know the true history of the King James bible. Do you know the history of the King James Bible and how it originated and why? Did you know that the oldest bible in the world dated 325 is the Alexandrian Bible and the only record in that bible of Jesus is when he was 33 years old? Did you know that the Alexandrian Bible (325) has no virgin birth of Jesus? Do you know why Constantine created the King James Bible?

I grew up a Baptist. Grew up on the King James Bible. I decided to research it one day and was very surprised in regard to what I found out. The King James Bible is full of stories, fables, and untruths. If you want to feel the REAL love of the Father then you have to step outside the box and go against what was taught to you. You have to research what religion is really about. Now I do not mean any disrespect. Just want some to open their eyes to what has been done in the name of religous beliefs and why.

I send you my blessings.
Thank your for your blessings and no offense is taken. As Christians we know more about the 'history' of Christianity and the many Bibles, interpretations than we speak of. Here's why....

As Christians, our Faith is not based upon religious beliefs, various Bible translations, but God's word which stands on its own, NOT history.

Long before the Alexandrian era in Rome, and it's interpretaion of the Bible, God was and still is and always will be.

Long before the existance of the Alexandrian era, Jesus already was and still is. For He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End; and that there is in between. There are no gaps or loopholes in the life of Jesus and God's intent and plan.

The word of God prevails in our lives and in our hearts and proves itsself far beyond any historical dispensations of any variable degrees.

As Christians we live and walk by Faith and it is our Faith which has proven what we know to be truth and what we profess of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. Jesus made it plain that the simplicity of God's word would confound the wise. The wise being those who have and profess book knowledge, yet have no Faith.

As Christians, we are justified by Faith, our Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who had to come via the Virgin birth, conceived by the Holy Spirit of God in order to be counted worthy of our Salvation. God's order...God's choice, God's plan of Salvation.

Just because the sinful Romans didn't write this, doesn't make it not so.

King James or not, God's words still stands. History, contrived of heaven and earth which will pass away, cannot overrule the word of God which will be forever and ever.

It may be King James, but its still God's word which comes alive each time we speak it; each time we live it, and has been proven too many times in my life and in the lives of we Christians who believe, for anyone of history to dispute it. History has no license on truth, but God's word does!

Jesus is exactly who He says He is. Jesus came exactly as God said He would come. Jesus is returning exactly as He said He would. And there isn't any interpretation nor historical account, that can disprove it.

For in the beginning was the Word; and the Word became 'Flesh' and dwelt among us. The Word lived and died for each of us. And the Word is alive and well in each of us who Believe and still alive in spite of those who do not.

It's not about King James. It's about Jesus is was and is and still to come.

Jesus -- unto whom every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Now......being spiritual can be a blessing or a curse. For the spirit behind the spirit can either lead you into life or death. With Heaven and Earth as His Witness, God says, 'Choose Life'.

Blessings and Truth to all...

Jesus is Lord! He is Lord of All... :heart2:

And there isn't a thing that the devil can do about it!
 
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SoulElegance

New Member
Hmmmm. No, I am not a Christian for I have studied the history of Christianity. After learning the history of christianity I became a spiritualist. I feel the spirit of the Father and his Son. Do you think that the antichrist is a human being or a orginization? The anti christ is the one who changed the Father's sabbath day? Who or what do you think that is? When I studied religion and its origin it was very very interesting. It opened my eyes to lots of things. Gave me more of a understanding of religion and those who created it. Now the "creator" is very real and so is his son. There is no doubt about that. Not all things in the King James bible is a false tale but some are. I love the verse that says " Read my word and apply it to your own heart, not have it taught to you". Thats very true. Another favorite verse of mine is: Always entertain strangers for they may be angels unawares. I live by that verse. Saw a angel once. A cherub. (no lie). To this day I still can't figure out the message he was trying to convey to me. Maybe he was trying to tell me I was going to be ok. At that time I was going through a difficult time in my life. I have had some heavenly experiences. Like hearing the most beautiful harp music ever. Nothing on this earth can mimick that sound I heard that rainy morning. I have come close to duplicating it with some wind chimes I purchased.

Doing my research in regard to the origins of religion and christianity helped me to understand some of the falsehoods that were drilled in my head since I was young enough to understand. Oh yes the Father and his son are very real. They have walked with me in my life. I carry a bible in my purse everywhere I go and have for years. Although not all the words in the book are of him. His spirit is there and that is my protection.

NO, I am not from Lucifer nor am I being fooled by him. On that note I send you my blessings. God is good for he has given me so many blessings that I am truly grateful for.

Please when you are going through your daily lives and you come across a homeless person in the street and they stick their hand out and ask you for some change. Don't frown your face up or turn your backs but reach into your pocket and give from the heart with the love of God. "Always entertain strangers for they may be angels unawares." "the rich shall give to the poor"

Be Blessed
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Hmmmm. No, I am not a Christian for I have studied the history of Christianity. After learning the history of christianity I became a spiritualist. I feel the spirit of the Father and his Son. Do you think that the antichrist is a human being or a orginization? The anti christ is the one who changed the Father's sabbath day? Who or what do you think that is? When I studied religion and its origin it was very very interesting. It opened my eyes to lots of things. Gave me more of a understanding of religion and those who created it. Now the "creator" is very real and so is his son. There is no doubt about that. Not all things in the King James bible is a false tale but some are. I love the verse that says " Read my word and apply it to your own heart, not have it taught to you". Thats very true. Another favorite verse of mine is: Always entertain strangers for they may be angels unawares. I live by that verse. Saw a angel once. A cherub. (no lie). To this day I still can't figure out the message he was trying to convey to me. Maybe he was trying to tell me I was going to be ok. At that time I was going through a difficult time in my life. I have had some heavenly experiences. Like hearing the most beautiful harp music ever. Nothing on this earth can mimick that sound I heard that rainy morning. I have come close to duplicating it with some wind chimes I purchased.

Doing my research in regard to the origins of religion and christianity helped me to understand some of the falsehoods that were drilled in my head since I was young enough to understand. Oh yes the Father and his son are very real. They have walked with me in my life. I carry a bible in my purse everywhere I go and have for years. Although not all the words in the book are of him. His spirit is there and that is my protection.

NO, I am not from Lucifer nor am I being fooled by him. On that note I send you my blessings. God is good for he has given me so many blessings that I am truly grateful for.

Please when you are going through your daily lives and you come across a homeless person in the street and they stick their hand out and ask you for some change. Don't frown your face up or turn your backs but reach into your pocket and give from the heart with the love of God. "Always entertain strangers for they may be angels unawares." "the rich shall give to the poor"

Be Blessed
I can see straight through your post. I've encountered many who speak such as yourself all along my journey as a Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Be it from a Jehovah's Witness, a Muslim, or one who has not committed to any Faith, such as yourself. Hence named 'Spiritualist'.

:giveheart: And dear one, satan is using you to scatter 'doubt' regarding Christianity. satan is very clever and and extremely subtle. He's using a 'hurt' and a fear in your life to pull you away from 'trusting' ...thus saith the Lord. And he's using you as a pawn for his purpose, not God's.

Here's the clue and the evidence...in all that you've shared, even with your experiences with angels and blessings, you still have not acknowledged Jesus Christ as Lord, neither have you said His name. Indeed you have called Him the son and you have mentioned the word father, yet you have not proclaimed Him as Jesus Christ, Lord and Master, Saviour and the Living God whom He is and always will be.

And this is a 'cultist' pattern and mindset. A mindset which 'skirts' around God and His total diety, with the 'appearance' of godliness, yet lacks the truth thereof.

Book knowledge you may possess, yet you are walking a very dangerous path. Your book knowledge has hardened your heart against the Lord Jesus Christ and yielding to Him as Lord; which we as Christians live by...which is Faith and a one-on-one personal relatiohship with Jesus.

You've chosen history books to be your God and indeed there is a satanic influence behind that; an influence that blinds. I shared with you earlier, that as Christians, we've had much study of 'other' books and Bible translations and interpretations. Yet our hearts are open to the Truth, believing in Jesus Christ, without doubt or fear. We do not minimize God and the diety of Jesus Christ.

It's not about King James with us; our Faith and our God goes beyond King James. The very clue of any false teaching is when it minimizes the total truth of Jesus Christ and refuses to acknowledge and worship Him as Lord.

As for the anti-Christ, he is just that, one who is against Jesus Christ who is more than the 'Son' of God, for He is God. Be the anti-Christ male/female, group or whatever, our Faith is not based upon him.

The Sabbath day is EVERY day for us as Christians. Look at his forum. We never 'rest' from worshipping God. God is not focused upon anyday upon which we honor as Sabbath (day of rest), He is more focused upon our hearts. The truth lies behind are we honoring a day or is it God whom we truly honor. God is not looking for robots, but those who love Him and honoer Him no matter what day of the week it is. :giveheart:

Soul Elegance, this is not against you personally. But as a minister of God, I have to expose what satan is trying to do with your post. I hate to admit it, but I know what satan is up to and I know why. he's out to discredit Christianity. he's trying to use your post of book knowledge to disprove our Faith in Jesus Christ. he's out to cast doubt and scatter seeds of fear and discouragement for those who have gained faith from the Bible.

But again, our Faith is not based upon King James, but Jesus Himself. Our knowledge our Jesus goes beyond what we read, but what we have experienced with Him personally and the word upon which we believe which comes alive beyond books. Long before we as Blacks were 'allowed' to read, we had the Word of God prove itsself to us beyond what any book could convey to our hearts. Our Faith is based on God, Himself.

I know what the devil is up too and he will not do it here. He couldn't dethrone God in Heaven and he will not dethrone God here on earth in our hearts and neither in this forum. It will not work. There is one thing that he cannot do and that's undo who God is and always will be, Bible or no Bible. Our God Reigns...forever.

Dearest one, there is pain behind your chosen philosophy and my prayer is for the love of God to bypass all of it, to bring you out of darkness and into the true meaning of being one with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. He loves you and I have no doubt that He has been trying to show you just how much.

For the record, I've never known a Christian to turn away from a hungry person on the streets nor those in need anywhere. And we have entertained many angels, unaware and will continue all the days of our lives.

Soul Elegance, I want to clarify, that you are not being personally attacked nor rejected here by anyone. You are loved, sweetheart. You are loved. I truly believe that you did not come here to cause discord, but you saw this thread title and wanted to share what you believe. But your messages doesn't come from God. :nono: It doesn't.

Jesus Christ didn't come by way of King James nor the Alexandrian era writers, nor any other historical account. God and our Lord Jesus Christ existed long before anything ever was and there is nothing written nor can be written by anyone to disprove it.

Be blessed angel; no one here is against you :kiss:
 
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SoulElegance

New Member
I am sorry you are WRONG!! Satan is not using me for anything. You have offended me buy assuming that I walk with satan. The only thing I am doing is researching the origins of religion and christianity! I don't have to write here the name of Jesus if I choose not to. How do you know I dont call his name? Just because I have not written it here in this post? Don't judge me when you do not know me! I am not a Christian. There is NOTHING wrong with that! So everyone who is not a christian is of satan? You believe you have to be Christian to know God and his son? You are a closed minded person. Satan is using me for nothing!! So everyone who doesnt call themselves a christian is walking with Satan? Thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! Who are the christians to tell everyone else their beliefs about God is the wrong belief? I pray to "JESUS" in the name of his father EVERY DAY. I don't have to call his name in this post for I call it daily.

Wow, I can't believe you came off like that. You can't see through anything for you are blind! I walk with satan! You have a nerve to say that to me and have insulted me as a person when you dont even know me. There is NOTHING wrong with studying for the "truth shall set you free!" I will continue to study and research anything and everything that peeks my curiosity for knowledge is power.

What do you think the papacy is? What do you think they have done in the name of christianity? I didn't know that it was ok to murder people who wouldnt convert to christianity? Is that of God?

Being a Christian is your preference and anyone elses. To each is own but don't stand up on your high horse and tell people they walk with satan because they are not one. Dont have to be a Christian to love God and his son. Yes, I said it again; GOD AND HIS SON! I am going to stop positng here because you have insulted me when I have done no such thing to you. What I have done was try to provoke a "thought" process. Encourage others to study the "ancient" history of religion. So, feel free to post whatever you like after this for I won't see it. Don't care to.

That's the problem today. Christians persecuting and ridiculing anyone and everyone who does not think like them. Who thankfully do not conform to the masses. Who also love God and his son. Wow. Now I walk with satan. Now I have heard everything.
 

SoulElegance

New Member
Book knowledge you may possess, yet you are walking a very dangerous path. Your book knowledge has hardened your heart against the Lord Jesus Christ and yielding to Him as Lord; which we as Christians live by...which is Faith and a one-on-one personal relatiohship with Jesus.

You've chosen history books to be your God and indeed there is a satanic influence behind that; an influence that blinds. I shared with you earlier, that as Christians, we've had much study of 'other' books and Bible translations and interpretations. Yet our hearts are open to the Truth, believing in Jesus Christ, without doubt or fear. We do not minimize God and the diety of Jesus Christ.



* MY HEART IS FAR FROM HARDENED AGAINST GOD AND HIS SON. HISTORY BOOKS ARE NOT MY GOD. WHO IS MINIMIZING GOD? WOW YOU SURE HAVE PUT A SPIN ON THINGS. IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN THATS FINE AND DANDY BUT DONT KNOCK SOMEONE WHO ISN'T. DON'T TELL THEM THEY WALK WITH SATAN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. NON CHRISTIANS LOVE GOD AND HIS SON TOO AND DONT HAVE TO THINK EXACTLY LIKE YOU."
 

golden bronze

New Member
Hey SoulElegance:

I respect your opinion, although I don't agree. I do agree that Christians should be aware of the historical significance of the scripture, but for me, that is not what causes us to have faith.

I have studied the orgion of the bible. I am not a scholar, but I have taken the time to look into it. I made a decision however, and it helps me.

I don't think faith in Christ is something you can get by intellectualism. study or research. Either you believe the bible is the Word of God, or you don't. I don't think it is something that can be rationalized, because faith comes by the Word of God, and through God's spirit which is beyond our human capacity to rationalize even if we had the most complete knowledge of history that a human could have. We don't have complete knoweldge.

For example, we know that many of the new testament scriptures were written some 30 odd years after Jesus walked the earth. They were also written by human beings. How could we ever be sure that a human being could give a full accounting of an event that happened 30 years prior? We can't. We know that the pslams and many of the scriptures intially were not written, but of oral tradition. How can we be sure of their authenticity? By human standards we can't. I could go on and on. By human standards, it would make no sense to believe the Bible was true, because many things in it contradict what we know by thought and reason to be correct.

So where does this leave us? Well, for me, it leaves me with faith. I believe that scripture is divine revelation of God and that the words He wanted to be preserved were preserved. Why do I believe in that? Because I believe in God, all powerful, all knowing and in control. I believe he can do anything. But most importantly, I believe in him because of the testimony of Jesus, which I know not just because of the Word, but because I know the word in my spirit, which has nothing to do with my human flesh. At one point I considered Islam. And I wondered to myself how can people ever really know the "true" God. And I wondered why if there was only one God were there so many religions, and why would God punish those who sought him by allowing confusion about who he is to exist. I have since come to receive answers to all those questions. Some of them were based in my own skewed perception of God.

But I come back to the life and testimony of Jesus. In my heart I know this man represents all of who God is.By that faith, all other things have been shown to me.

So, I believe, not based on what I can see, but based on what I do not see. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. Contradictory right? Hope having substance. Evidence that is not seen.

You spoke of the spirit. This what I know in my spirit: I know God loves us, and that the world we live in was not what He intended. I know that God's desire is for us to be close with him. I know human beings are double natured, with the propensity to be close to God and his likeness, or far from it. I know God gives us free will. I know there are things in the spiritual realm that we cannot see that go on daily. I know that we have free will. I know that this whole struggle to reconcile man with God that is a bigger fight than just us. Every being in creation both on earth and in the heavens is watching the question that has been raised about humanity and God's very nature by the accuser. I know that it is our sin that keeps us from God, not God who keeps Himself from us. I know that I was created for a purpose. I know that we don't have complete knowledge now, but one day, at the final reconciliation, we will.

I know that Jesus died for my sins on Calvary, and it is because of him I can believe that there are two things God can never do. He can never lie, nor does he change his mind. God is just. He is truth. If he were not truth, even he would not ask us to believe.

How do I know this? Well I know it not in my mind as a human being walking on earth. I know it because I read his word, and my spirit knows it is truth. I cannot tell you how I know, except that God has shared himself with me, as he has many who believe. I know because I have faith.Why do you think God didn't say that to be saved we just had to see him, or follow him, or seek him. God said to be reconciled to we must believe that Jesus died for our sins. He asks us to believe in His nature. He asks us to believe as a fleshly species, that only knows what we touch taste hear smell feel and see, to believe that God loves us enough to restore us to him. He is asking us to believe in who he is, Elohim, I am that I am. That is faith. And believe me, the spritual word is watching this little saga with baited breath. It has to happen this way.

And so, I don't sweat the small stuff. And it is all small, when you start to look at it.
 

SoulElegance

New Member
I don't think faith in Christ is something you can get by intellectualism. study or research. Either you believe the bible is the Word of God, or you don't. I don't think it is something that can be rationalized, because faith comes by the Word of God, and through God's spirit which is beyond our human capacity to rationalize even if we had the most complete knowledge of history that a human could have. We don't have complete knoweldge.


** My faith in God does not come from intellectualism, study or research. My faith in God is VERY strong. He has changed my life when I had no hope. He has literally SAVED me from death! Have you ever felt yourself actually dying and calling on the Lord to help you and actually have him do so? I assure you during this moment I surely was NOT calling on satan! So for ANYONE to suggest I walk with satan greatly offends me! Because I choose to study and research the history of religion and am no longer a christian does not make a alliance with satan!! The reason I posted here was because the behavior the young man is displaying to his friend is not loving nor is it understanding. Why condem a person because you dont agree with their life choices? God is love, not hate. God is forgiveness, not bigotry. To love God is to love his people, even if you do not agree with their life choices. Remember the story of the people with leprosy? Stop throwing stones at people because of your religious beliefs. I really cannot come back to this particular part of this forum anymore because of the Neanderthal christian thinking! So I am gladly moving on with my LOVE for God and "JESUS"."
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Shimmie said:
Book knowledge you may possess, yet you are walking a very dangerous path. Your book knowledge has hardened your heart against the Lord Jesus Christ and yielding to Him as Lord; which we as Christians live by...which is Faith and a one-on-one personal relatiohship with Jesus.

You've chosen history books to be your God and indeed there is a satanic influence behind that; an influence that blinds. I shared with you earlier, that as Christians, we've had much study of 'other' books and Bible translations and interpretations. Yet our hearts are open to the Truth, believing in Jesus Christ, without doubt or fear. We do not minimize God and the diety of Jesus Christ.


* MY HEART IS FAR FROM HARDENED AGAINST GOD AND HIS SON. HISTORY BOOKS ARE NOT MY GOD. WHO IS MINIMIZING GOD? WOW YOU SURE HAVE PUT A SPIN ON THINGS. IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN THATS FINE AND DANDY BUT DONT KNOCK SOMEONE WHO ISN'T. DON'T TELL THEM THEY WALK WITH SATAN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. NON CHRISTIANS LOVE GOD AND HIS SON TOO AND DONT HAVE TO THINK EXACTLY LIKE YOU."

I say this in love...

It was your statement, not mine which first brought up satan, I simply responded to it. Here is your comment...

NO, I am not from Lucifer nor am I being fooled by him. On that note I send you my blessings. God is good for he has given me so many blessings that I am truly grateful for.

Precious one, I have to share this...

satan's only tool is the mind of a human being. to be used of him does not mean that one 'walks' with him. he attacks and influences the mind, the thoughts of a human which in turn becomes the process of ones actions.

I stress that I am not accusing you of 'walking' with satan. I also stressed more than once that my response is NOT against you, but against what he was trying to do, which is to cast doubt among the Believers, by discrediting the Bible.

These are the clues...

Your original post in this thread, relates to nothing regarding this original thread topic at all.

Instead...

It completely comes against the beliefs and the faith that we as Christians stand upon.

It assumes and strongly suggests that we as Christians are ignorant and have no knowledge of truth because we read and quote the King James Bible.

Your post exalts the Alexandrian Bible as truth solely because it does not acknowledge the Virgin Birth and Conception of Jesus Christ.

It was suggested that we as Christians walk past beggars on the streets without care...????

It is stated that we murder those who do not believe as we do. Yet, how many Christians have been and are still masequered to this day for upholding Jesus Christ.

I won't go any further, for the more I say appears to be a personal and direct attack against you and it is not.

I will say that none of this came from the heart of God the Father or the heart of Jesus.

Knowledge is wonderful, God even admonishes each of us to get wisdom and to cherish it. But knowledge cannot outmatch our Faith.

Faith which kept us alive during slavery; Faith which kept us clothed and fed and have given our generations to follow a better life than those before us. Faith bonds us to a greater life after this life is over.

Loved one, we did not come into your world to dispell what you believe, instead it was you who came into ours. Did you really expect us to abandon the love of Jesus Christ which has been proven to us beyond knowledge, beyond the mind and beyond the flesh?

Just because we stand steadfast upon our faith, does not mean we are trying to 'force' our faith upon others. As strongly as others attack us, we strongly stand to our Faith. As strongly as others stand upon their beliefs, we also stand upon ours.

Why are we accused of what everyone is doing, which is standing firm upon what/whom they believe? Our belief in Jesus is our Right.

Here we are Christians and Christians we will remain. We also remain in love. And we will love you, no matter what you believe.

Again, my post is not about you, it never was. With all of my heart I apologize for hurting you and offending you and if it appeared that you walked with satan. That was never my intent. I mean this with all of my heart.

Soul Elegance, if you ever need us for anything, we will be here to love you and pray for you no matter what. :heart2:
 
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Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
I say this in love...

It was your statement, not mine which first brought up satan, I simply responded to it. Here is your comment...



Precious one, I have to share this...

satan's only tool is the mind of a human being. to be used of him does not mean that one 'walks' with him. he attacks and influences the mind, the thoughts of a human which in turn becomes the process of ones actions.

I stress that I am not accusing you of 'walking' with satan. I also stressed more than once that my response is NOT against you, but against what he was trying to do, which is to cast doubt among the Believers, by discrediting the Bible.

These are the clues...

Your original post in this thread, relates to nothing regarding this original thread topic at all.

Instead...

It completely comes against the beliefs and the faith that we as Christians stand upon.

It assumes and strongly suggests that we as Christians are ignorant and have no knowledge of truth because we read and quote the King James Bible.

Your post exalts the Alexandrian Bible as truth solely because it does not acknowledge the Virgin Birth and Conception of Jesus Christ.

It was suggested that we as Christians walk past beggars on the streets without care...????

It is stated that we murder those who do not believe as we do. Yet, how many Christians have been and are still masequered to this day for upholding Jesus Christ.

I won't go any further, for the more I say appears to be a personal and direct attack against you and it is not.

I will say that none of this came from the heart of God the Father or the heart of Jesus.

Knowledge is wonderful, God even admonishes each of us to get wisdom and to cherish it. But knowledge cannot outmatch our Faith.

Faith which kept us alive during slavery; Faith which kept us clothed and fed and have given our generations to follow a better life than those before us. Faith bonds us to a greater life after this life is over.

Loved one, we did not come into your world to dispell what you believe, instead it was you who came into ours. Did you really expect us to abandon the love of Jesus Christ which has been proven to us beyond knowledge, beyond the mind and beyond the flesh?

Just because we stand steadfast upon our faith, does not mean we are trying to 'force' our faith upon others. As strongly as others attack us, we strongly stand to our Faith. As strongly as others stand upon their beliefs, we also stand upon ours.

Why are we accused of what everyone is doing, which is standing firm upon what/whom they believe? Our belief in Jesus is our Right.

Here we are Christians and Christians we will remain. We also remain in love. And we will love you, no matter what you believe.

Again, my post is not about you, it never was. With all of my heart I apologize for hurting you and offending you and if it appeared that you walked with satan. That was never my intent. I mean this with all of my heart.

Soul Elegance, if you ever need us for anything, we will be here to love you and pray for you no matter what. :heart2:

Shimmie...........:kiss:!!!
 

dreamer26

New Member
Hmmmm. No, I am not a Christian for I have studied the history of Christianity. After learning the history of christianity I became a spiritualist. I feel the spirit of the Father and his Son. Do you think that the antichrist is a human being or a orginization? The anti christ is the one who changed the Father's sabbath day? Who or what do you think that is? When I studied religion and its origin it was very very interesting. It opened my eyes to lots of things. Gave me more of a understanding of religion and those who created it. Now the "creator" is very real and so is his son. There is no doubt about that. Not all things in the King James bible is a false tale but some are. I love the verse that says " Read my word and apply it to your own heart, not have it taught to you". Thats very true. Another favorite verse of mine is: Always entertain strangers for they may be angels unawares. I live by that verse. Saw a angel once. A cherub. (no lie). To this day I still can't figure out the message he was trying to convey to me. Maybe he was trying to tell me I was going to be ok. At that time I was going through a difficult time in my life. I have had some heavenly experiences. Like hearing the most beautiful harp music ever. Nothing on this earth can mimick that sound I heard that rainy morning. I have come close to duplicating it with some wind chimes I purchased.

Doing my research in regard to the origins of religion and christianity helped me to understand some of the falsehoods that were drilled in my head since I was young enough to understand. Oh yes the Father and his son are very real. They have walked with me in my life. I carry a bible in my purse everywhere I go and have for years. Although not all the words in the book are of him. His spirit is there and that is my protection.

NO, I am not from Lucifer nor am I being fooled by him. On that note I send you my blessings. God is good for he has given me so many blessings that I am truly grateful for.

Please when you are going through your daily lives and you come across a homeless person in the street and they stick their hand out and ask you for some change. Don't frown your face up or turn your backs but reach into your pocket and give from the heart with the love of God. "Always entertain strangers for they may be angels unawares." "the rich shall give to the poor"

Be Blessed


I am a chritian and I just want to say to you that when you are searching for the truth God is there listening and the devil is also there. The devil knows your desire to know truth so he is not going to show you something that is an outright lie he's going to be crafty in the way he present things to you. He will also use half trues of the scripture. How do I know this, he did it with Jesus, after Jesus was finishing a 40 days fast here comes Satan to tempt him and try to get him to turn stones into bread and show him all what he could give him if he would fall down and worship him. Read Matthew chapter 4.

My sister if the devil will try to decieve Jesus surely he'll try us. What gets us in trouble something is the fact we must know and understand every detail of Jesus before we an accept him. But I tell you that much of our walk is a faith walk.

I close by saying if Jesus is not your Lord and Savior, if he is not at the thrown of your heart, if he is not the corner stone in your life, If you have not confessed with your mouth and believed in your heart that God raised Jesus fromt he dead and is now sitting on the right hand of the father. If you don't believe he was born of a virgin, hung out on an old rugged cross for your sins and mine, but 3 days later rose with all power in his hands then thou shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

It is not God's will that any will perish but you gotta believe.

Be blessed.
 

SoulElegance

New Member
I know how the devil works believe me. My goodness I was sharing something that I have learned and researched. I don't walk around blind in my faith. I surely do not believe everything I read or that is told to me. Why take all of this out of context and tell me that the devil is trying to fool me because I choose to do research in regard to the history of religion. I am no fool nor do I walk with satan or spread HIS views. Why don't some of you try researching the history of Christianity before you tell me I am wrong, etc. On that note this will DEFINATELY be my last post in this section of the forum. And NO I am not saying all Christians are bad. I just know the history of Christianity and how it got started is all. I choose to educate myself on things and not walk into it blindly. Christians have the King James bible as well as those who are spiritual and Muslims have the Koran, etc. That's just how religion is. Different beliefs for different people but they all love and worship the same ONE God. Because someone doesn't believe exactly as you do does not equate them being fooled by the devil or spreading his word. I am NOT speaking against God and his son by any means so let's get off that page and assume that I am being fooled by the devil please and who said that I dont believe in Jesus or that he died on the cross, etc. I did not make ANY of those statements. I was sharing something I researched. I didn't expect to be attacked but that's how some people work when your views are different in regard to religion. Its a very touchy subject and you still have people in the middle east figthing over religious beliefs and have been for a long time. Actually killing one another. Who said that he is not in my heart? What is all the assuming about? My goodness. Yes, by all means pray for me I welcome the prayers. Also pray for yourselves that you won't attack when someone's views aren't EXACTLY as your own. Have a good week and I am blessed and NOT by the devil. Geesshh.
 

dreamer26

New Member
I know how the devil works believe me. My goodness I was sharing something that I have learned and researched. I don't walk around blind in my faith. I surely do not believe everything I read or that is told to me. Why take all of this out of context and tell me that the devil is trying to fool me because I choose to do research in regard to the history of religion. I am no fool nor do I walk with satan or spread HIS views. Why don't some of you try researching the history of Christianity before you tell me I am wrong, etc. On that note this will DEFINATELY be my last post in this section of the forum. And NO I am not saying all Christians are bad. I just know the history of Christianity and how it got started is all. I choose to educate myself on things and not walk into it blindly. Christians have the King James bible as well as those who are spiritual and Muslims have the Koran, etc. That's just how religion is. Different beliefs for different people but they all love and worship the same ONE God. Because someone doesn't believe exactly as you do does not equate them being fooled by the devil or spreading his word. I am NOT speaking against God and his son by any means so let's get off that page and assume that I am being fooled by the devil please and who said that I dont believe in Jesus or that he died on the cross, etc. I did not make ANY of those statements. I was sharing something I researched. I didn't expect to be attacked but that's how some people work when your views are different in regard to religion. Its a very touchy subject and you still have people in the middle east figthing over religious beliefs and have been for a long time. Actually killing one another. Who said that he is not in my heart? What is all the assuming about? My goodness. Yes, by all means pray for me I welcome the prayers. Also pray for yourselves that you won't attack when someone's views aren't EXACTLY as your own. Have a good week and I am blessed and NOT by the devil. Geesshh.

I'm sorry you feel you were attacked and you're not posting in here anymore but you posted that the King James version of the bible was full of untruths and all this stuff. One thing about GOd's word, it has been standing since the begining of time, things that was spoken long before it happen, happen and it will continue to stand because it is the true enfabale word of the Lord, so when you speak those type things in a christian forum, dear freind please expect us to defend our faith not in hate but in love.

You have the right to defend what you believe and likewise.

Be blessed.
 

star

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you feel you were attacked and you're not posting in here anymore but you posted that the King James version of the bible was full of untruths and all this stuff. One thing about GOd's word, it has been standing since the begining of time, things that was spoken long before it happen, happen and it will continue to stand because it is the true enfabale word of the Lord, so when you speak those type things in a christian forum, dear freind please expect us to defend our faith not in hate but in love.

You have the right to defend what you believe and likewise.

Be blessed.

I do believe you are right here. This forum is for Christians and NOT a place of debate. The "off topic" is the place for that. Please see the RULES for this section.

I think people are entitled to their own opinion and we know all research can be challenge but this is not about research but relationship. God is looking for intimacy with His people and one thing I find that I do not have fight or define Christianity for it speaks for itself. The beattuides of Jesus and loving neighbor are the principles of the Gospel. When you have self identity in Jesus you do not spend too much time proving it and your life will speak for itself.

If lead by God you provide people with the answer according to His word which is the Bible and having faith in God he will reveal the truth to people not people providing their opnion on whether the Bible is true. Whatever people say from God's word he will confirm through our spirit and we will have peace. I rather spend my time doing something more meaningful than trying to define something I know is from God but Christians do have to defend his Word when lead by God. I think God is big enough and strong enough to reveal to us if the Bible was not true. If we look at the fact the BIBLE is still the No.1 best selling book, now whether people read it that's another story but many have a copy of it. God has to reveal himself to all of us and when he does no devil in hell can shake that relationship of truth. Devil has blinded people's eyes to get the focus off the real purpose and that is having a relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ.
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
I do believe you are right here. This forum is for Christians and NOT a place of debate. The "off topic" is the place for that. Please see the RULES for this section.

I think people are entitled to their own opinion and we know all research can be challenge but this is not about research but relationship. God is looking for intimacy with His people and one thing I find that I do not have fight or define Christianity for it speaks for itself. The beattuides of Jesus and loving neighbor are the principles of the Gospel. When you have self identity in Jesus you do not spend too much time proving it and your life will speak for itself.

If lead by God you provide people with the answer according to His word which is the Bible and having faith in God he will reveal the truth to people not people providing their opnion on whether the Bible is true. Whatever people say from God's word he will confirm through our spirit and we will have peace. I rather spend my time doing something more meaningful than trying to define something I know is from God but Christians do have to defend his Word when lead by God. I think God is big enough and strong enough to reveal to us if the Bible was not true. If we look at the fact the BIBLE is still the No.1 best selling book, now whether people read it that's another story but many have a copy of it. God has to reveal himself to all of us and when he does no devil in hell can shake that relationship of truth. Devil has blinded people's eyes to get the focus off the real purpose and that is having a relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ.
Amen, Precious Star :kiss:
 

Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
I do believe you are right here. This forum is for Christians and NOT a place of debate. The "off topic" is the place for that. Please see the RULES for this section.

I think people are entitled to their own opinion and we know all research can be challenge but this is not about research but relationship. God is looking for intimacy with His people and one thing I find that I do not have fight or define Christianity for it speaks for itself. The beattuides of Jesus and loving neighbor are the principles of the Gospel. When you have self identity in Jesus you do not spend too much time proving it and your life will speak for itself.

If lead by God you provide people with the answer according to His word which is the Bible and having faith in God he will reveal the truth to people not people providing their opnion on whether the Bible is true. Whatever people say from God's word he will confirm through our spirit and we will have peace. I rather spend my time doing something more meaningful than trying to define something I know is from God but Christians do have to defend his Word when lead by God. I think God is big enough and strong enough to reveal to us if the Bible was not true. If we look at the fact the BIBLE is still the No.1 best selling book, now whether people read it that's another story but many have a copy of it. God has to reveal himself to all of us and when he does no devil in hell can shake that relationship of truth. Devil has blinded people's eyes to get the focus off the real purpose and that is having a relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ.

ITA. Thank you, Star.
 

star

Well-Known Member
Ladies let's keep the forum in prayer and all Christians every where in prayer for this is season of transition and God is going to be moving like every before in our lives. This I know for sure in Jesus Name. AMEN!!!
 
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