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The anti butter/oil movement

levette

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the anti butter and oil movement may have some correlation to the surge of successful natural hair care lines created by black entrepreneurs who use natural ingredients including oils and butters and they are getting supported by the black hair community . Is it that mainstream companies and cosmetologist dislike it because the mainstream products such as Aveda, etc might be seeing a decrease in sales or a decrease of black women going to the hair dresser to get theit hair done because they are self sufficient using hair own self made products With the oils and butters . I could be far off base . What are your thoughts ?
 
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Dee Raven

Well-Known Member
I stopped using oils and butters before I started hearing about things like the 30 day detox, just because my hair felt better. When I first heard stylist say to not use them, that's how I knew that I would like their recommendations because they were reiterating what I had already by trial and error found out about my hair. So I do think for some people, like myself, there are real reasons why that advice is sound that has nothing to do with the larger brands. However, each person has to figure out what is right for there hair. There are still a lot of people on youtube using oils and butters whose hair looks fabulous. So I guess it's good that there is messaging for both groups.
 

spacetygrss

Well-Known Member
Oh, yes. This a big thing on social media right now. The other thing is telling people that they don’t need to know their hair type when they ask about it.
Anyhow, I’ve been natural for 20 years at this point and this isn’t new. I remember seeing this about 10 years ago around the same time that water-only rising was a thing.
Just like everything else, this works for some people and not for others. For me and my high-porosity hair, I’ll be using oils and butters.
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I've been seeing my stylist for years and she is a no raw butter/raw oil advocate. Keyword there is raw. Nearly every product has some type of oil or butter in it. My back up stylists is the same. As well as several other stylists I follow. They are all black and I still use black owned products.

It's not new, at least not to me so I don't consider it a movement. I just do my hair.

I do think hair typing is irrelevant though. Never really helped me figure out anything. You show 5 people a picture and get 7 different responses on which hair type it is. Causes more confusion and division imo.
 

spacetygrss

Well-Known Member
I do think hair typing is irrelevant though. Never really helped me figure out anything. You show 5 people a picture and get 7 different responses on which hair type it is. Causes more confusion and division imo.

I don’t think that it’s relevant or irrelevant. I just think that if someone asks it’s extremely RUDE to tell that person that they don’t need to know. That is LITERALLY happening right now on social media. They literally have a ”bot” on one of the reddit pages that automatically does it. Like, what? Answer the question and move the heck on.
 

toaster

Well-Known Member
I do have to say, the no butter/oil movement that I’ve seen is focused on wash and go styling. Most stylists aren’t saying don’t use grease if you wear a press and curl or only wear twisted updo’s.

They are saying it’s unnecessary to use raw butters and oils to get a successful wash and go, and the build up is hindering a lot of people from getting a successful wash and go.

The information is pretty helpful, but like all things it’s been shortened into a 15 second sound bite and it’s losing some of its background.
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I don’t think that it’s relevant or irrelevant. I just think that if someone asks it’s extremely RUDE to tell that person that they don’t need to know. That is LITERALLY happening right now on social media. They literally have a ”bot” on one of the reddit pages that automatically does it. Like, what? Answer the question and move the heck on.

Nowadays I think it's irrelevant so I think we're going to disagree. If I'm a new natural who thinks hair typing is important and three people give me three different answers I'm walking away more confused then when I started. Add to the mix that most people have more than one "type". Then top that with most products just say kinky, coily, curly and not strictly 3a or 4c.

Asking how someone hair behaves seems more helpful than a letter-number system that doesn't identify what one should do next with that information.

But no, I personally wouldn't tell someone they don't need to know. I'd probably just keep scrolling tbh.
 

spacetygrss

Well-Known Member
Nowadays I think it's irrelevant so I think we're going to disagree. If I'm a new natural who thinks hair typing is important and three people give me three different answers I'm walking away more confused then when I started. Add to the mix that most people have more than one "type". Then top that with most products just say kinky, coily, curly and not strictly 3a or 4c.

Asking how someone hair behaves seems more helpful than a letter-number system that doesn't identify what one should do next with that information.

But no, I personally wouldn't tell someone they don't need to know. I'd probably just keep scrolling tbh.

I actually don't think that we're disagreeing. We're just seeing different aspects of the issue. What I see happening is EXACTLY what's in the bolded.
Is hair type relevant to picking out products? Not for me. It's just a descriptor. But if someone is curious and wants to know, that's their business. I think it's over the top to shut the conversation down. I've seen some really militant videos concerning this.
 
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KaciaLN12

Well-Known Member
I think most, if not all the people advocating for no or low oils and butters have low porosity hair and do mostly wash n go’s. You wouldn’t need to seal anything if you washing your hair every 2-3 days. Most twist/braid outs look dusty without some type of oil or butter, especially on kinkier hair. imo.
 

levette

Well-Known Member
I think most, if not all the people advocating for no or low oils and butters have low porosity hair and do mostly wash n go’s. You wouldn’t need to seal anything if you washing your hair every 2-3 days. Most twist/braid outs look dusty without some type of oil or butter, especially on kinkier hair. imo.
This information is helpful. It’s hard being a new natural and not knowing what to use on your hair or the techniques that are best. I tend to be one who stretches and updos or buns after my hair is dry so I’m lost with all the conflicting information. I’m definitely not a wash and go styler for my type 4 hair
 

snoop

Well-Known Member
I visited one hair stylist duos Insta page. They advocate for no oils or butters. They also don't seem to believe in any style but wash n gos...as in protective styling isn't necessary. Another person (also member here) asked about WL hair with this method. They were not impressed with the question and the response was dismissive and led me to believe that their clients don't necessarily achieve long lengths with this method.
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I visited one hair stylist duos Insta page. They advocate for no oils or butters. They also don't seem to believe in any style but wash n gos...as in protective styling isn't necessary. Another person (also member here) asked about WL hair with this method. They were not impressed with the question and the response was dismissive and led me to believe that their clients don't necessarily achieve long lengths with this method.
I don't follow that duo so can't speak on them specifically.

These people don’t have waist length hair (although maaybeee if it's stretched) but it is hair at a longer length.



 

snoop

Well-Known Member
I don't follow that duo so can't speak on them specifically.

These people don’t have waist length hair (although maaybeee if it's stretched) but it is hair at a longer length.




My question around length was did they start with a shorter length and get there using that method. For example @frobunni on Instagram, has started using this method this year. However, she was already a TBL (4c) natural. I'll be curious to know if in a year she is still using this method.
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
My question around length was did they start with a shorter length and get there using that method. For example @frobunni on Instagram, has started using this method this year. However, she was already a TBL (4c) natural. I'll be curious to know if in a year she is still using this method.

Gotcha. Alyssa Marie (can't think of her IG name) has been doing no raw oils/butter for about a year. Her hair was already about shoulder length curly at that point.

I don't have long hair by anyone's standards but I've been doing my hair this way for a little over three years growing out a tapered cut with shaved sides that's now collarbone length when straightened. I can't forsee why I couldn't continue as is until I'm at a length I'm good staying at.

While I am in wngs 94ish% of the time I do occasionally do twists for twist outs or put in braids to switch up the look, not really as a protective style, cause honestly after a couple weeks in braids I want my curls back and free.

I'm rambling now but I don't have long hair however my hair grew fine this way. I think I've said in the wash and go thread these last few years have been the happiest I've been with my hair.
 

spacetygrss

Well-Known Member
I think most, if not all the people advocating for no or low oils and butters have low porosity hair and do mostly wash n go’s. You wouldn’t need to seal anything if you washing your hair every 2-3 days. Most twist/braid outs look dusty without some type of oil or butter, especially on kinkier hair. imo.
The low porosity comment is astute.
I was just on the natural hair subreddit yesterday and someone posted a pic of them chopping a couple of inches their ends off after following the no oils/butters method for a few months. They are high porosity. Their hair was thriving beforehand.
I'm also high porosity. My hair MUST be sealed with something heavy or all of that water is gone in 60 seconds. I can see how no oils/butters would be great for low porosity types though.
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I'm not low porosity. My hair has been dyed several times over the years as well.

Eta: I feel like pics help to show I'm not talking out the side of my neck lol. My hair was fully bleached two ish years ago, then I went to black, then I got balayage.

I was very much a LOC-er and my hair can't do wash and gos when I first went natural.
 

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snoop

Well-Known Member
Gotcha. Alyssa Marie (can't think of her IG name) has been doing no raw oils/butter for about a year. Her hair was already about shoulder length curly at that point.

I don't have long hair by anyone's standards but I've been doing my hair this way for a little over three years growing out a tapered cut with shaved sides that's now collarbone length when straightened. I can't forsee why I couldn't continue as is until I'm at a length I'm good staying at.

While I am in wngs 94ish% of the time I do occasionally do twists for twist outs or put in braids to switch up the look, not really as a protective style, cause honestly after a couple weeks in braids I want my curls back and free.

I'm rambling now but I don't have long hair however my hair grew fine this way. I think I've said in the wash and go thread these last few years have been the happiest I've been with my hair.

Thanks for this. I honestly want to know more about the method -- specifically the types of products that make the process work, so I appreciate your "rambling". :)
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
Thanks for this. I honestly want to know more about the method -- specifically the types of products that make the process work, so I appreciate your "rambling". :)

The method is pretty simple imo. Wash, condition, style. The thing for me was learning to use much more water than I use to and washing more often. I really make sure my hair is saturated with water before adding shampoo. I don't pre detangle so I kind of use the water to break up my hair if that makes sense. Then I shampoo. After I add conditioner I add more water and really work the conditioner in. I listen for a squishy sound. That tells me I have enough water mixed with my conditioner. I noticed I use less conditioner doing it this way and detangling is faster. I style typically using a combo of two products on nearly soaking wet hair, applying product in sections, no tools just raking with my fingers. Lastly I sit under a dryer until dry. No fiddling until dry or I'm asking for frizz. I wash about every 7 days. No refreshing in between.

Stylers wise, my favorite combos are UFD curly magic and innersense I create hold or UFD curly magic and a mousse. First one gives me 7 day hair. Second one, 4-5ish days.

I get trims 3x a year.

I'm currently playing around with not using a leave in. It's looking like it's not make a difference for my wash and gos. Jury is still out. My stylist doesn't use one on me. I'm also playing around with how many sections I do and how wet my hair is when styling and using different styler combos from what I already have in my stash.
 

snoop

Well-Known Member
The method is pretty simple imo. Wash, condition, style. The thing for me was learning to use much more water than I use to and washing more often. I really make sure my hair is saturated with water before adding shampoo. I don't pre detangle so I kind of use the water to break up my hair if that makes sense. Then I shampoo. After I add conditioner I add more water and really work the conditioner in. I listen for a squishy sound. That tells me I have enough water mixed with my conditioner. I noticed I use less conditioner doing it this way and detangling is faster. I style typically using a combo of two products on nearly soaking wet hair, applying product in sections, no tools just raking with my fingers. Lastly I sit under a dryer until dry. No fiddling until dry or I'm asking for frizz. I wash about every 7 days. No refreshing in between.

Stylers wise, my favorite combos are UFD curly magic and innersense I create hold or UFD curly magic and a mousse. First one gives me 7 day hair. Second one, 4-5ish days.

I get trims 3x a year.

I'm currently playing around with not using a leave in. It's looking like it's not make a difference for my wash and gos. Jury is still out. My stylist doesn't use one on me. I'm also playing around with how many sections I do and how wet my hair is when styling and using different styler combos from what I already have in my stash.

Thanks for this info! The conditioner technique reminded me of a "squish to condish" video that I watched years ago that a type 2 lady was using. Lots and LOTS of water...she used a bowl to help her condition and set her waves.

I'm not quite ready to try this method (ie I want to keep my oils and protective styles, for now), but I'm going to research further because the techniques sound promising. Thanks again for this breakdown. Super helpful!
 

KenyafromCT

Well-Known Member
I really have no idea - except I was struggling with my natural hair's health when using the oils and butters, and when I finally went in to consult with a hair specialist, she took me off of them and now my hair is flourishing.
What do you use to keep your moisture levels up? What type of hair? My type 4 hair is terribly dry without oils and butters. It’s like a rats nest. Super tangled and breaks.
 

KenyafromCT

Well-Known Member
I've been seeing my stylist for years and she is a no raw butter/raw oil advocate. Keyword there is raw. Nearly every product has some type of oil or butter in it. My back up stylists is the same. As well as several other stylists I follow. They are all black and I still use black owned products.

It's not new, at least not to me so I don't consider it a movement. I just do my hair.

I do think hair typing is irrelevant though. Never really helped me figure out anything. You show 5 people a picture and get 7 different responses on which hair type it is. Causes more confusion and division imo.
I big chopped in May 2018. I was relaxed from age 9 -age 49. So I knew nothing about my hair. I was following CP and messing with her her advice had my hair in a horrible state/totally jacked up!! I found Green Beauty and Nappy Headed Jojoba and my hair made a huge turn around.
 

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I big chopped in May 2018. I was relaxed from age 9 -age 49. So I knew nothing about my hair. I was following CP and messing with her her advice had my hair in a horrible state/totally jacked up!! I found Green Beauty and Nappy Headed Jojoba and my hair made a huge turn around.

I'm not familiar with CP. Is that a Youtuber?
 

sunshinebeautiful

Well-Known Member
What do you use to keep your moisture levels up? What type of hair? My type 4 hair is terribly dry without oils and butters. It’s like a rats nest. Super tangled and breaks.

I have type 4 natural hair - 4a, b, and a little bit of c. I now use water based products (rather than oil-based). No oil/butter in the top 5 ingredients. My hair loves humectant products with aloe vera or glycerin in it that draw moisture in from the environment. These are well-formulated products that, in truth, do contain some amount of oil/butter in the product formulations, just lower on the ingredient list.

As my hair stylist explained, then it's not necessary to apply additional oils/butters. It can create a layer of buildup that prevents water from entering the hair strand and it doesn't necessarily shampoo out easily. Over time it creates a dryness issue. She says she's seen ladies in the salon that have used lots of oils over the years and she's shampooed 3, 4, 5 times and the oil build-up layer is still there. It eventually comes off after discontuining oil-based products, but it may take several wash days.

I used to be a LOC girl. Mostly because I didn't know what else to do since it was so advised on the internet, forums, and growing up we used lots of oils in the hair. A day or two after wash day, my hair was dry again, just with a layer of oil/butter on top. I was naturally skeptical of this new method at first, but I was also frustrated enough to try it out in the event that it did work. It only took a few weeks before I noticed a difference.

All I do to keep moisture levels up is wash once per week (because water naturally evaporates from the hair strand as days go by), use water-based products, and I'm good through the week. I've been doing this for 6 months now and cannot see myself going back. It wasn't an immediate "try it one time" difference, but a cumulative process that as the weeks go by allows your hair to accept and retain more water over time.
 

Neomorph

Well-Known Member
I've been playing around with the no oils/butters thing for most of this year and I have to say for my hair it's working well. I find that I do not have to moisturize my hair as often with this method. For the record I do have low porosity hair.

As far as growth/length retention...this is honestly the longest my hair has been in my life. I have seen a lot growth this year. I will say, I don't think I can entirely contribute this solely to the method as I have been incorporating more low manip styles (buns, flat twists) and have been doing frequent trims. I will say, that not having to take my hair down constantly to to remoisturize probably helps as it further reduced the manipulation needed.
 
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