The Black Church

yodie

Well-Known Member
Hi ladies.

I'm a co-host of an online talk show called The Every Woman Talk Show.
Our topic tonight is The Black Church - then, now and the future.
We air 7pm EST. You can call in to chat or just listen in at 646.478.4507 or you can listen online at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shadowworldzradionetwork

Our guest on tonight is Ron Christian of Christian Love Baptist Church in Irvington, NJ.

I wanted to talk about it with you ladies and get your views.

1. What do you think about the black church and it's role on the community -
past, present, and future?

2. What about the role of the black church in Civil Rights, social justice?

3. Has the church strayed too far from basics in favor of a prosperity gospel?

Any thoughts or comments are welcomed.

Let's chat today.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
Hi. I listen to a few people on blog talk radio through the day at work so I will check this out today.
 

yodie

Well-Known Member
Thank you, MrsHaseeb.
Would love to hear your viewpoint on it.

Personally, I feel like church seems to have strayed away from the gospel in favor of mega numbers, mega growth and shifted toward the prosperity ministry. Now I just honestly don't know. I recall there always being a time where there was a prophetic voice over the airways, the messages were powerful. Not so much anymore.

The church was once very strong and present concerning injustices in the community, i.e. Jordan Davis case, but it's almost as if most pastors are afraid of losing everything if they speak out. That too is understandable to some degree.

Interested to hear what you ladies think.
 
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felic1

Well-Known Member
Thank you, MrsHaseeb.
Would love to hear your viewpoint on it.

Personally, I have like church seems to have strayed away from the gospel in favor of mega numbers, mega growth and shifted toward the prosperity ministry. Now I just honestly don't know. I recall there always being a time where there was a prophetic voice over the airways, the messages were powerful. Not so much anymore.

The church was once very strong and present concerning injustices in the community, i.e. Jordan Davis case, but it's almost as if most pastors are afraid of losing everything if they speak out. That too is understandable to some degree.

Interested to hear what you ladies think.

Hi!yodie...This is a very well written post. There was a prophetic voice over the airways. I am pursuing the prophetic unction. In the last days there shall be a great falling away. It does not just mean the lay people. It seems that we are supposed to be expecting riches instead of persecution.
They rejected Jesus and we should expect the same. My pastor spent a lot of time indicating that the saints would experience debt cancellation. I am afraid I scoffed. Did not the mortgage company accept $5,000 and cancel $89,000 plus on the mortgage? So, we can expect some financial blessings. The wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just. Love Ya!:yep:
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
yodie[/USER]...This"]Hi!yodie...This is a very well written post. There was a prophetic voice over the airways. I am pursuing the prophetic unction. In the last days there shall be a great falling away. It does not just mean the lay people. It seems that we are supposed to be expecting riches instead of persecution.
They rejected Jesus and we should expect the same. My pastor spent a lot of time indicating that the saints would experience debt cancellation. I am afraid I scoffed. Did not the mortgage company accept $5,000 and cancel $89,000 plus on the mortgage? So, we can expect some financial blessings. The wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just. Love Ya!:yep:

Can you tell me what lay people are? Also, can you tell me where the Bible says the saints are supposed to experience debt cancelation?
 

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
I concur about churches moving away from the true word of God but is more focused on numbers and prosperity.

I attend what you would call a 'storefront church' where everyone knows everyone, it really is a community, a village, it's a family, which most churches have moved away from.

We need to get the 'word' back in our churches and teach about the whole man.
 

yodie

Well-Known Member
Girl... I would turn things upside down if I spoke about those issues, lol.

I would love for you to call in and give us your viewpoint. Not to turn things up per say, but your voice/opinion would be a great addition to our show.

Also, excuse my typo in my quoted paragraph. I edited it.
 

felic1

Well-Known Member
MrsHaseeb..Good morning! When I say lay people I am referring to non clergy. We are able ministers of the new testament but are not necessarily active in a pulpit. When I mentioned the debt cancellation, our pastor received a word from the Lord regarding the reduction of debt for the saints. If the bank owners are keeping us in financial servitude, this keeps us being borrowers and not lenders ourselves. Also, if we are burdened with debt, it keeps us from being a blessing to the local church, the poorer among us and the body of Christ at large. If we should support missions and charitable works we need money in order to do so. I no longer have a house note. I am free from the mortgage bondage. I had believed that I would be paying on that mortgage until I was 90. Now, at the moment I have just entered a low paying job to care for my sick mother. My car was in an accident early in January. It was paid off but I was off of worked and lacked insurance. My current leading is to get an appraisal on what the damages were and not to try to defraud the insurance company indicating that the car was hit at another time. You know the enemy will try to tempt us to do something wrong to save money. I will not try to swindle the insurance company. I will testify about the outcome!:yep:
 

yodie

Well-Known Member
Hi!yodie...This is a very well written post. There was a prophetic voice over the airways. I am pursuing the prophetic unction. In the last days there shall be a great falling away. It does not just mean the lay people. It seems that we are supposed to be expecting riches instead of persecution.
They rejected Jesus and we should expect the same. My pastor spent a lot of time indicating that the saints would experience debt cancellation. I am afraid I scoffed. Did not the mortgage company accept $5,000 and cancel $89,000 plus on the mortgage? So, we can expect some financial blessings. The wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just. Love Ya!:yep:

Congrats and Praise God for that debt cancellation. That's a victory for us all.

I miss the full gospel. I've never seen it in my time, but I go back on You Tube and look at the early faith healers and the miracles that were performed. You don't see this in many churches anymore. It's not the norm. We aren't taught this often and so the expectation, faith, desire just isn't there for some. I'm careful to say some because I don't want to include every church.
 

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
@yodie I don't want to take your thread off point ...

but I would like to ask @felic1 why do you think most of us (Christians) are in debt?
I'd like you to answer from your point of view, but here is my answer.

What I see going on in the church (amongst) Christians people is that we (most of us) live just like the 'world' in excess, we mismanage God's money yet we expect to be blessed at our every turn and often compare ourselves to the heathens who are raging (temporarily). We are borrowers and not lenders.
 
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felic1

Well-Known Member
Congrats and Praise God for that debt cancellation. That's a victory for us all.

I miss the full gospel. I've never seen it in my time, but I go back on You Tube and look at the early faith healers and the miracles that were performed. You don't see this in many churches anymore. It's not the norm. We aren't taught this often and so the expectation, faith, desire just isn't there for some. I'm careful to say some because I don't want to include every church.

Heyyodie! I have a lot of literature on some of the early faith healers. I bought a number of books from Harrison House. One is about Maria Woodworth-Etter. You should buy this. It is a real faith builder. She had a lot of fabulous miracles with signs and wonders in her meetings. She traveled to meetings via open sleigh. I have a lot of literature on the ministry of smith Wigglesworth and others that were God's Generals. It helps to earnestly contend for the faith which was given to the saints.
A lot of this was compiled by Roberts Liardon. Harrison House has some scrumptious teachings! :lick:
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
MrsHaseeb..Good morning! When I say lay people I am referring to non clergy. We are able ministers of the new testament but are not necessarily active in a pulpit. When I mentioned the debt cancellation, our pastor received a word from the Lord regarding the reduction of debt for the saints. If the bank owners are keeping us in financial servitude, this keeps us being borrowers and not lenders ourselves. Also, if we are burdened with debt, it keeps us from being a blessing to the local church, the poorer among us and the body of Christ at large. If we should support missions and charitable works we need money in order to do so. I no longer have a house note. I am free from the mortgage bondage. I had believed that I would be paying on that mortgage until I was 90. Now, at the moment I have just entered a low paying job to care for my sick mother. My car was in an accident early in January. It was paid off but I was off of worked and lacked insurance. My current leading is to get an appraisal on what the damages were and not to try to defraud the insurance company indicating that the car was hit at another time. You know the enemy will try to tempt us to do something wrong to save money. I will not try to swindle the insurance company. I will testify about the outcome!:yep:

Thanks for the explanation.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
@yodie I don't want to take your thread off point ...

but I would like to ask @felic1 why do you think most of us (Christians) are in debt?
I'd like you to answer from your point of view, but here is my answer.

What I see going on in the church (amongst) Christians people is that we (most of us) live just like the 'world' in excess, we mismanage God's money yet we expect to be blessed at our every turn and often compare ourselves to the heathens who are raging (temporarily). We are borrowers and not lenders.

I agree. That was what I was thinking. I don't want to start a fire in the thread though. But I do believe God can and will provide for his people when we're faithful with what He gives us.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
Hi ladies.

I'm a co-host of an online talk show called The Every Woman Talk Show.
Our topic tonight is The Black Church - then, now and the future.
We air 7pm EST. You can call in to chat or just listen in at 646.478.4507 or you can listen online at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shadowworldzradionetwork

Our guest on tonight is Ron Christian of Christian Love Baptist Church in Irvington, NJ.

I wanted to talk about it with you ladies and get your views.

1. What do you think about the black church and it's role on the community -
past, present, and future?

2. What about the role of the black church in Civil Rights, social justice?

3. Has the church strayed too far from basics in favor of a prosperity gospel?

Any thoughts or comments are welcomed.

Let's chat today.

yodie... I just wanted to come in and congratulate you on the success of your online talk show. Good for you!

:bighug:
 

felic1

Well-Known Member
Iwanthealthyhair67..Hey girlie!! I think that the saints are a bit materialistic. A bit is putting it mildly. We live above our means and buy things we cannot afford. Then we cry and complain when we cannot pay for it. When we consider buying things and we have faith for things, we sometimes go too far. We have what I might call magical thinking. Just like children. This is not the as a little child faith that the Lord was speaking of. We are still supposed to have common sense and count of up the cost when we embark on a standard of living. We look at technology (cell phones, tablets, computers) and these things sparkle. We lust after these items and they can become a snare to us. We could buy the lower cost item but don't. Then we brag on what we have and mismanage the resources that God has called us to utilize. I dare say God is not pleased with this. We have not consulted him regarding our ways of life and then we fret against him because it does not work out. I speak of myself as well. None of us are probably doing the best in this area.I hope to do better in 2014. With me being underemployed, I am not able to do a lot of buying. This has made me rely on God's invisible abundance. I used to work and work trying to pay everyone. God told me to tithe and let go. It was hard for me with this mind set of an independent woman. When my parents became ill I did not have much choice. I sat down with them and it became time for the Lord to work. I mean he handled everything. The house, the car, a cell phone (emergencies). I am still able to interact with you ladies(LHCF) which is a minor cost but a big pleasure.:yep:
 

yodie

Well-Known Member
Thank you Shimmie

I am guilty of living beyond my means at some point. Well aware of that and have dedicated this year to getting bak to living within my means and paying off all those years that I lived ahead of my salary.

Back to our topic, do you feel like the church has spoken out enough or not at all on same sex marriage, homosexuality, fornication, living outside of our means, the fall of many of our pastors?

Trying to give an array of topics because all too often we focus on just homosexuality as if it's the greatest issue of today.

What about the community? So many churches, especially in the inner city, but are we reaching the people? Are we too complacent inside our four walls and not focused on the community enough? Are we feeding the community? Are we lending to our communities?

I know these questions have been asked before, but what are the solutions? I, admittedly, don't have them.

I wish the black church owned more businesses like gas stations, schools, Starbucks, and homes. Buy up the community, so that the money stays in the community. I wish more black churches had credit unions, so we could borrow and lend amongst ourselves.

The only problem I foresee with this is that heaven is not comprised of the black church or the white church or the asian church. There won't be any black or white owned businesses. It will just be those who have made it in and that will be celebration enough.

What do you think?
 
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Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
I attend two Churches:

In Florida our Church is multi-cultural headed by a White Pastor (Stovall Weems / Celebration Church) and his wife. It's a mult-campus Church, however I do not put it in the category of a mega church. Pastor Weems and his wife and the associate Ministers do not carry a mega mentality. And I'm not saying this to be offensive to a mega church.

Our family is very involved with the Florida Ministry and the Ministry is very involved with our family, personally as well as other families.

Up North :)look:) in my other home I attend an all Black Church. It's small yet it is full of the presence of God. Our Pastor is family (literally), we are all related by Marriage, yet the respect for my Pastors as Ministers is very rich.

My Personal Black Church Experience

The Black Church that I attend is wholly supported by my Pastor. The total membership is about 100 members and they all contribute with their tithes and offerings, however Pastor takes the responsibility and God truly blesses both he and his wife who is our co-Pastor.

I have to be honest, I often wonder how he does it and yet still has a home, wife and family to maintain as well as other personal expenses... Yet he does. Pastor loves serving God.

Here's something else, I've noticed in this Church. The members flourish. No one is begging broke, so to speak. They take care of their personal business and support the Church wholeheartedly.

There are so many positives. When they pray, it's high worship God hears and answers our prayers. I can't even tell you how many times I've witnessed the move of God with this Ministry.

I will say this: If you miss a service, they will call you out on it... the members will. Pastor is loving and won't say a thing, they'll just hug you and keep it moving. But some of the members are bullies when it comes to a missed service. :nervous2: :lol:

Both Ministries have Retreats

The difference and go ahead and laugh because this really is funny:

The Florida Church has ski trips: Folks go away to have fun and ski and afterwards they fellowship and listen to a message where it's warm inside. :lol:

The Black Church has shut-ins. We go away to have inside fellowship and then be shut up in a room to listen to a message. :lol:

Fund Raisers:

The Black Church has 'dinners' (Fish Fries) And the food is good at $10 a plate and you get a lot for your money; plus chocolate cake, coconut cake, 'tater' pies, homemade cookies, cornbread, muffins. :love2: :yep:

The White Church in Florida has ice cream stands :lol: I'm serious.

It's a lot more I can share but I love them both. It's a true blessing and God is in each one.
 

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
lots of people don't like that up close and personal nature of some churches and I admit some can be aggressive but we are suppose to be our brothers keeper ...if we look at the early churches it was like a family, and that's what we are sorely in need also expressing true koinonia.


I attend two Churches:

In Florida our Church is multi-cultural headed by a White Pastor (Stovall Weems / Celebration Church) and his wife. It's a mult-campus Church, however I do not put it in the category of a mega church. Pastor Weems and his wife and the associate Ministers do not carry a mega mentality. And I'm not saying this to be offensive to a mega church.

Our family is very involved with the Florida Ministry and the Ministry is very involved with our family, personally as well as other families.

Up North :)look:) in my other home I attend an all Black Church. It's small yet it is full of the presence of God. Our Pastor is family (literally), we are all related by Marriage, yet the respect for my Pastors as Ministers is very rich.

My Personal Black Church Experience

The Black Church that I attend is wholly supported by my Pastor. The total membership is about 100 members and they all contribute with their tithes and offerings, however Pastor takes the responsibility and God truly blesses both he and his wife who is our co-Pastor.

I have to be honest, I often wonder how he does it and yet still has a home, wife and family to maintain as well as other personal expenses... Yet he does. Pastor loves serving God.

Here's something else, I've noticed in this Church. The members flourish. No one is begging broke, so to speak. They take care of their personal business and support the Church wholeheartedly.

There are so many positives. When they pray, it's high worship God hears and answers our prayers. I can't even tell you how many times I've witnessed the move of God with this Ministry.

I will say this: If you miss a service, they will call you out on it... the members will. Pastor is loving and won't say a thing, they'll just hug you and keep it moving. But some of the members are bullies when it comes to a missed service. :nervous2: :lol:

Both Ministries have Retreats

The difference and go ahead and laugh because this really is funny:

The Florida Church has ski trips: Folks go away to have fun and ski and afterwards they fellowship and listen to a message where it's warm inside. :lol:

The Black Church has shut-ins. We go away to have inside fellowship and then be shut up in a room to listen to a message. :lol:

Fund Raisers:

The Black Church has 'dinners' (Fish Fries) And the food is good at $10 a plate and you get a lot for your money; plus chocolate cake, coconut cake, 'tater' pies, homemade cookies, cornbread, muffins. :love2: :yep:

The White Church in Florida has ice cream stands :lol: I'm serious.

It's a lot more I can share but I love them both. It's a true blessing and God is in each one.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
What I feel about the black church is that they need to stop being hypocrites. They need to repent and be accountable for all the things going on in the church before they can correct homosexuals or anybody else. Fighting battles with petitions and marches to stop gay marriage is hypocritical and carnal. We fight with the Gospel and with letting our light shine. The world is mocking the church because of all the hypocrisy. Homosexuality and other sin was rampant in the Roman empire yet we do not see the Apostles fighting a political war. They fought by living the Gospel and preaching the Gospel. I'll stop there.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
lots of people don't like that up close and personal nature of some churches and I admit some can be aggressive but we are suppose to be our brothers keeper ...if we look at the early churches it was like a family, and that's what we are sorely in need also expressing true koinonia.

Iwanthealthyhair67... I know, Right? But these members can be 'gangsta' ... somewhat :lol:

My Saving Grace is that they know that I travel twixt two places. :lol:
 

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
What I feel about the black church is that they need to stop being hypocrites. They need to repent and be accountable for all the things going on in the church before they can correct homosexuals or anybody else. Fighting battles with petitions and marches to stop gay marriage is hypocritical and carnal. We fight with the Gospel and with letting our light shine. The world is mocking the church because of all the hypocrisy. Homosexuality and other sin was rampant in the Roman empire yet we do not see the Apostles fighting a political war. They fought by living the Gospel and preaching the Gospel. I'll stop there.


I believe that this is also preventing us from seeing the signs and wonders that the bible speaks of.
 

Shimmie

"God is the Only Truth -- Period"
Staff member
What I feel about the black church is that they need to stop being hypocrites. They need to repent and be accountable for all the things going on in the church before they can correct homosexuals or anybody else. Fighting battles with petitions and marches to stop gay marriage is hypocritical and carnal. We fight with the Gospel and with letting our light shine. The world is mocking the church because of all the hypocrisy. Homosexuality and other sin was rampant in the Roman empire yet we do not see the Apostles fighting a political war. They fought by living the Gospel and preaching the Gospel. I'll stop there.

I totally agree with you MrsHaseeb...

But you know what? I haven't truly witnessed hypocrisy as much as it's being talked about. Mind you, I know it's there in the 'mix', so to speak, but it's not as rampant as some seem to think it is.

This is not directed towards you or your comment... Please believe me. It's not. It's just that most people who 'cry' hypocrite are those who don't want to be convicted of what they are doing wrong. And I know that you've experienced this yourself. When you've tried to 'mentor' or advise someone, the first thing they yell at you is 'hypocrite' and they're just trying to shut you down to keep from facing what they are doing wrong.

I hope my post makes sense. Again, what I said above is knot directed at you. Hey, I couldn't make here without you. :giveheart:
 

prettynatural

Think, Do, Be
I grew up in a small family church about 50 members present. Family members working in every part with guest pastors fellowshipping with us with their church family. The church my parents attend is pretty much the same except my cousin in the pastor. The culture is more traditional, it is about living holy, having faith, doing the right etc. I've never known my cousin to every do a spill on sowing seed, and covenant faith for members to pay more. Simply they call for tithes and offerings and that's it.

Where I live now, for the past 15 years, I have attended a mega church 20,000 members. Imagine the culture shock of not going up to your pastor after service and get a hug and talk but instead seeing your pastor with his entourge and drivers escorting him out the door before dismissal in order for him to make it to the next location on time! It is the same theme every service, Faith , seed sowing, believe it and you shall receive it.

The small traditional church- many youth activities, Vacation Bible School, Teen Activities, Arts and Creativity, like Black History Month- plays, Easter- Plays, really using kids in the church service and cultivating them. Everyone knew, everyone. Volunteering at the local nursing homes to provide church service. They do that at my grandmother's nursing home and my parent's church participates along with other black churches in the area.
Other Guest Churches-fellowship with different programs- we eat dinner together before the program and see other friends and family members from nearby churches. It really was a community of believers. Joined together in crisis and uplifted our community.

MegaChurch- Watch Announcements on the screen- may have activities announcements in various locations but it lacks a personal touch. Business Fair Expos, Job Fair Expos, Classes for those who want to buy homes etc. Those are some good programs. The draw back is the personal touch, members do not know each other. Yes, there are ministries to help with this but because it is so large it makes it really hard for that fellowship to occur. There are more focus on more members and seed sowing to have bigger buildings etc but lack of seeing Mission Work and Charity work most of the programs I mentioned earlier are for individual self betterment and not for the betterment of the poor. There are no onsite counseling and mental health for families. Many white mega churches have in house counseling staff to meet the needs of their members.

What I've seen in my experience is that some church leaders today are keeping up with the Jones. Everyone has a praise team:lol: I remember in my church when the Deacons and Mothers led devotion and we sung as a congregation. Now, everyone have that 5-6 members around 3 mikes doing praise and worship. There are changes but I've always been skeptical about the spirit of the change. That is the main reason why I stopped attending church because of that fee for service feel that I received while going the mega church I attended. It really set up sense of entitlement for me and I forgot my purpose and lost my way. I back on track now and I am stronger.


eta: to answer the overarching question, I believe the Holy Spirit is lacking in our churches today. I sense a spirit that is tearing us inside and out and I hope and pray that a revivial of sorts will come and get things back in order. We lost a of teaching and standing up for social justice. Church is a business, Fortune 500, if you will. Many ministers own the names and ministry and it is not the way it use to be. I think there are a lot of pressures for ministers who do want to serve God to compete with other ministers who view church as a business for membership and to keep the doors open. It is a serious issue and I think this is a great topic of discussion.

Also, excuse misspellings and typos.
 
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MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
lots of people don't like that up close and personal nature of some churches and I admit some can be aggressive but we are suppose to be our brothers keeper ...if we look at the early churches it was like a family, and that's what we are sorely in need also expressing true koinonia.

There is a problem with the lack of fellowship in churches as well. We are instructed to know them who labor among us. Most people are not living right and therefore do not want to be held accountable but God does expect is to know one another and be accountable to one another as brothers and sisters. The Bible does talk about discontinuing fellowship with those who walk disorderly and refuse to repent.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you MrsHaseeb...

But you know what? I haven't truly witnessed hypocrisy as much as it's being talked about. Mind you, I know it's there in the 'mix', so to speak, but it's not as rampant as some seem to think it is.

This is not directed towards you or your comment... Please believe me. It's not. It's just that most people who 'cry' hypocrite are those who don't want to be convicted of what they are doing wrong. And I know that you've experienced this yourself. When you've tried to 'mentor' or advise someone, the first thing they yell at you is 'hypocrite' and they're just trying to shut you down to keep from facing what they are doing wrong.

I hope my post makes sense. Again, what I said above is knot directed at you. Hey, I couldn't make here without you. :giveheart:

Shimmie, I am not offended :-D. There are good fellowships and I truly believe a lot of the ladies here are blessed to be in them. I'm referring to hypocrisy as a whole for what is referred to as the church. We are instructed to walk circumspectly because the world does look at what we do. Sin is rampant in Christendom, which disempowers the preaching of the Gospel ( and let's not forget the widespread false doctrine). Thank God for the true fellowships and true saints that are living right because we don't see enough of them. I just think the church will be more effective when people are held accountable like they were amongst the early believers and expected to be a light. The church as a whole (not the true saints) has become salt without flavor.
 

yodie

Well-Known Member
Great points ladies.
I zoo long for the signs and wonders that we read about in the bible. It seems like our churches are so busy with our programs that we leave little time for this.

Shimmie, I like a smaller church setting, but I don't like when everyone notices when I am/am not in church. It's nice to feel the love, but sometimes its too close for comfort.
 

yodie

Well-Known Member
What I feel about the black church is that they need to stop being hypocrites. They need to repent and be accountable for all the things going on in the church before they can correct homosexuals or anybody else. Fighting battles with petitions and marches to stop gay marriage is hypocritical and carnal. We fight with the Gospel and with letting our light shine. The world is mocking the church because of all the hypocrisy. Homosexuality and other sin was rampant in the Roman empire yet we do not see the Apostles fighting a political war. They fought by living the Gospel and preaching the Gospel. I'll stop there.

I feel the world mocks the church because a lot of churches have lost their focus = lost their power.
 
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