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The Covid-19 Thread: News, Preparation Tips, Etc

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I don't know what part of they told us what to do a year ago to avoid the situation we are in today isn't clicking. This comes down to a basic math problem:

Mask compliance + social distancing + shutdowns = little to no need for shots

Masks optional + running to breathe on each other + optional shutdowns = need all the shots

The children in the room keep doing what they want and wondering why the hole they refuse to stop digging keeps getting wider and deeper.

And people still aren't paying attention. You can't tell me there's not an overlap of people who are screaming about not taking the vaccine (and telling others not too) and people who are kicking it like there's not a highly contagious airborne virus going around. Folks may think their immune systems are made of vibranium but what about the person next to you, and the people they go see after you, and their coworkers because they can't work from home.

But they also waiting on herd immunity. Make it make sense.
 

snoop

Well-Known Member

Lylddlebit

Well-Known Member
And people still aren't paying attention. You can't tell me there's not an overlap of people who are screaming about not taking the vaccine (and telling others not too) and people who are kicking it like there's not a highly contagious airborne virus going around. Folks may think their immune systems are made of vibranium but what about the person next to you, and the people they go see after you, and their coworkers because they can't work from home.

But they also waiting on herd immunity. Make it make sense.
There will always be an overlap of irresponsible people doing irresponsible things but I would not stretch that to automatically place those who challenge the common consensus in that category. The actual issue is evident when a person doesn't want to be inconvenienced to literally save their life no matter their opinion or vaccination status. To me that can be applied to not staying home when it would be easy to, taking the vaccine in an attempt to stop treating a pandemic like a pandemic or generally not taking the appropriate precautions to offset their risks level to others. This is a passionate topic and I value the different opinions but I know there is a spectrum in each grouping.
 
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lavaflow99

In search of the next vacation

oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
There will always be an overlap of irresponsible people doing irresponsible things but I would not stretch that to automatically place those who challenge the common consensus in that category. The actual issue is evident when a person doesn't want to be inconvenienced to literally save their life no matter their opinion or vaccination status. To me that can be applied to not staying home when it would be easy to, taking the vaccine in an attempt to stop treating a pandemic like a pandemic or generally not taking the appropriate precautions to offset their risks level to others. This is a passionate topic and I value the different opinions but I know there is a spectrum in each grouping.

Right. That's why I said overlap and not everyone. I'm willing to bet there's plenty of people not taking the covid vaccine and telling other people not to who are taking proper precautions.

I'm sure there's people taking shot one and not getting shot two and people getting shot one acting like they got shot two.

At any rate, we do all want the same thing (maybe? I'm questioning that at this point) and that's to get back to "normal". So every time some news comes out and going "see I told you" (which actually isn't a revelation - the FDA docs mentioned blood clot possibility in Feb for example) gets us much of nothing and definitely not closer to wherever normal is now going to be.

And I never see people talk about alternatives. Like we're we supposed to just ride this out until....??
 
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Rastafarai

Well-Known Member
We are never returning to “normal”. COVID brought in a new era of how business operates and how we work and live.

My office is given us the option to return and if so, only on a 3-day schedule. My friend who works at Facebook HQ told me her office is closed indefinitely. She moved cross country for the gig and now is considering working from Las Vegas to avoid the Silicon Valley rent.

Not to mention the landlords at major cities are taking a hit with companies packing up or scaling back on leased office space. Employees are also enjoying the facetime to see their family, or workout and get more fit and healthy.

COVID allowed me to focus on my health more and helped me lose a good 30 pounds to date.

In conclusion, COVID forced us to evolve on realizing that work-life balance matters and working 5+ days a week in an office isn’t a necessity for the majority of jobs. It will never return to what was.
 
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oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
We are never returning to “normal”. COVID brought in a new era of how business operates and how we work and live.

My office is given us the option to return and if so, only on a 3-day schedule. My friend who works at Facebook HQ told me her office is closed indefinitely. She moved cross country for the gig and now is considering working from Las Vegas to avoid the Silicon Valley rent.

Not to mention the landlords at major cities are taking a hit with companies packing up or scaling back on leased office space. Employees are also enjoying the facetime to see their family, or workout and get more fit and healthy.

COVID allowed me to focus on my health more and helped me lose a good 30 pounds to date.

In conclusion, COVID forced us to evolve on realizing that work-life balance matters and working 5+ days a week in an office isn’t a necessity for the majority of jobs. It will never return to what was.

Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to all of us. I'd even say most of us. My job is trying to get us back to the office full time over the summer. I wouldn't say my social circle is huge but out of family and 2 friend groups, I only know of 1-2 people who aren't returning to the office full time and career fields vary greatly in my circle. My parents work in a school so that's definitely not happening for them.

I wish I could stay home from work. I don't need to see another office space again. I'm convinced they want us back in the office because they don't want this new-ish building to sit empty. Jamie Dimon (JPMC CEO) recently talked about employees returning to the office and while some people will get fully remote or hybrid privileges, most won't. Why? Because company culture thrives on people meeting and working face to face they say. The owners of my job said the same.

Here's the link if anyone is interested: https://reports.jpmorganchase.com/investor-relations/2020/ar-ceo-letters.htm

I pulled a couple of quotes from the article. I thought his list of weaknesses was interesting and a sign that most companies probably aren't about that fully work from home life.

The COVID-19 pandemic changed the way we work in many ways, but, for the most part, it only accelerated ongoing trends. And while working from home will become more permanent in American business, it needs to work for both the company and its clients. I believe our firm’s on-site versus remote work will sort out something like this:

  • Generally speaking, we envision a model that will find many employees working in a location full time. That would include nearly all of the employees in our retail bank branches, as well as jobs in check processing, vaults, lockbox, sales and trading, critical operations functions and facilities, amenities, security, medical staff and many others.
  • Some employees will be working under a hybrid model (e.g., some days per week in a location and the other days at home).
  • And a small percentage of employees, maybe 10%, will possibly be working full time from home for very specific roles.

The virtual world also presented some serious weaknesses. For example:

  • Performing jobs remotely is more successful when people know one another and already have a large body of existing work to do. It does not work as well when people don’t know one another.
  • Most professionals learn their job through an apprenticeship model, which is almost impossible to replicate in the Zoom world. Over time, this drawback could dramatically undermine the character and culture you want to promote in your company.
  • A heavy reliance on Zoom meetings actually slows down decision making because there is little immediate follow-up.
  • And remote work virtually eliminates spontaneous learning and creativity because you don’t run into people at the coffee machine, talk with clients in unplanned scenarios, or travel to meet with customers and employees for feedback on your products and services.

I don't think we really know what COVID has really taught us as a whole just yet.

ETA: I take that back. We've learned people don't like wearing masks.
 
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yamilee21

Well-Known Member
... You can't tell me there's not an overlap of people who are screaming about not taking the vaccine (and telling others not too) and people who are kicking it like there's not a highly contagious airborne virus going around. ...

I keep thinking about this point. I’m a longtime homeschooling parent (not pandemic remote schooling). For years I have organized a class at a local museum, and with precautions in place, I set it up for this year as well. But I had such a hard time filling the class, because the parents clamoring for in-person homeschool activities for their kids are the same ones who refuse to wear masks, socially distance and adhere to the safety precautions, let alone get vaccinated. The parents who take precautions don’t want to do anything in-person, because they don’t want to encounter the Covid denier crowd.
 

sunshinebeautiful

Well-Known Member
Now they're saying it will likely be a yearly requirement, similar to the flu shot. The "adults" in the room can't seem to make up their minds.

I don't see how it wasn't ever going to be a yearly requirement. It was months ago that it was reported that antibodies seem to last less than a year. And yup, the boosters are needed to protect against all of these variants popping up.
 

sunshinebeautiful

Well-Known Member
As others have alluded to, at this point I don't think "normal" as we knew it before will exist. The new normal will be covid as an ever-present likelihood. The vaccination is supposed to be effective at preventing hospitalization and/or death, but at this time, there still will be people getting sick from covid. They just won't overwhelm ICUs and funeral homes as it has been thus far. That's our "best case" scenario as of now.

I am super curious of how "moderate" covid may be if you get it in the future, especially with antibodies in your system.
 

Black Ambrosia

Well-Known Member
I don't see how it wasn't ever going to be a yearly requirement. It was months ago that it was reported that antibodies seem to last less than a year. And yup, the boosters are needed to protect against all of these variants popping up.
People should definitely know better but there are legitimate reasons why views on covid are so different and why you really can’t leave it up to people to do what’s right. The gaslighting former President is responsible for people thinking it would go away and things would get back to normal and that it would happen quickly. Even when it was clear this was wrong he’d already emboldened Republican leadership who then refused to enact safety measures or challenged democratic leadership who did. Had there been a national mandate on mask wearing and money for people and businesses who couldn’t work from home we’d potentially be back to normal (old normal for the most part) by now.

A vaccine was always going to be part of the long term strategy but so many lives could’ve been saved in the meantime and covid fatigue would’ve been over after a few months instead of dragging on a year later where people are concerned more about spring break and their kids playing sports than their neighborhood hospital being at capacity and unable to treat them or little Johnny for covid or anything else.
 

Lylddlebit

Well-Known Member
@oneastrocurlie

Please don't quote I will delete some personal stuff later but I wanted to answer you on my experiences with alternatives.

You just live with the consequences of your decisions because you are going to be stuck with the decisions you make and the access to impact you that is allowed. There are a lot of alternatives. The alternatives just depend on the life you have lived(and continue living to build up your options), the resources you have and the decisions you make. Here are some of mine. I have been socially distant since 3/13/2020.

  • I worked from home before the pandemic. That was a shift I made as a mother before the pandemic hit. I had no idea how useful it would be in the years to follow.
  • When the pandemic hit my husband was still going to work every day. In the last weeks of march 2020 when I made the decision to be socially distant, I sat my husband down and asked him to quit his job. Reminded him about how we overcame his accident when he couldn't work and said it was more important now than then for just to be focused on our well being(he had just gotten back on track from physical therapy). He didn't really want to quit his job. He had just gotten back into the swing of things after a moderate injury but he trusted my judgment, listened to me and quit his job per my request(and his determination to protect our family). In a few months he secured a virtual job that he now enjoys more than the one he liked and quit. What we experienced with the accident in 2018 was plenty of evidence that we could make things work with what we have in hard times or drastic changes where we said "No, household first". Him being out of his groove was plenty of evidence that he could make things work as a man even without physically going to work. Him getting a job right after his physical therapy made it easy for him to get a job in a pandemic where he could be virtual. It's amazing how tests before the trial prove their value when the real challenge comes to prove the test made you ready before the trial.
  • My family used to gather like the move "Soul Food "for Sunday dinner once a month. Now we have Zoom meetings once a month to replace our gathering. At the beginning of the pandemic we would visit family they would put out their lawn chairs and we would stay in the car or vice versa. Keeping social distance the entire time with our preventative measures.
  • On the funerals I have missed I have contributed to the cost of the tribute in lieu of my presence. You don't have to pay for the whole thing if you don't have it but people will appreciate what you can do when they don't got it. Stuff like paying for a casket or the outfit the loved one is buried in or the tombstone or the burial can lift a huge burden. Also before this mess happened I was always the relative with my camera making memories and capturing moments. There have been instances where I just opened up my photo albums and that was every photo needed for the slideshows they like to play at homegoing ceremonies. There have been instances that I have a recent photo for the front of the obituary instead of the family having to use a 20 year old photo because that was the only portrait they could find. It doesn't cost a lot of money to give what you already have.
  • I send really nice gifts for special moments I miss right now.
  • I lean on my husband and the Lord for emotional support.
  • My husband and I hold each other accountable when we start trippin to get back on track.
  • Me and my husband play, clown, and have fun each day. We focus on the fun in our home not what we are missing outside it.
  • I work full time but I also have a full schedule set up for my littler one(I worked in a daycare when I was a teenager and had some Americorp history as a young adult.) It turns out I am efficient at developing curriculum now.
  • I had a green thumb as a kid(the magnet program had a bunch of botany clubs and my grandad was a superintendent of agriculture). I dipped back into that and we are a half step from being considered homesteaders. Last year I taught DH how to manually till and turnover the ground make furrows and plant new things. He also put up 2 new greenhouses in the backyard for us and installed fencing around our open area garden.
  • I normally love shopping for clothes but since I am not going to department stores right now and online isn't the full experience. I upgraded my Janome to a Juki and have upped my game on sewing making stuff. My Janome is a true workhorse and great to make sure I stay sharp on the old school basics that help you make any sewing machine work but my Juki has more bells and whistles without relinquishing workhorse power for better output. Hopefully this year my pattern making will in line with the best.
  • I learned how to scale and deep clean my teeth at home last year.
There really are plenty of alternatives but every one needs to be genuine with themselves particularly in the area on how what they say what they want matches how they are living. My priority is handling my business and taking care of my household. Therefore my actions do not undermine those areas. My "new normal" just builds on what I've got and what I know. Although everyone doesn't have the same starting point they can still build on what they do have and what they do know. I enjoyed pre 2020 for what it was. Now that that ship has sailed I look at where I landed and realize there is still plenty work with.
 
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oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
I was meaning an alternative to handling the global pandemic on a global scale since the covid vaccine is thought to be a lot of things but a good idea.

I get giving it the side eye but it's frustrating to see misinformation, half truths, cherry picked information and then see people spreading it. That's all.

People don't get it? Alright. Consequences for decisions. We already got people boycotting private businesses for asking for vax proof or a negative covid test to get in. I don't get the outrage but I got my vaccine so I won't have them problems.
 
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Rastafarai

Well-Known Member
Jamie Dimon (JPMC CEO) recently talked about employees returning to the office and while some people will get fully remote or hybrid privileges, most won't. Why? Because company culture thrives on people meeting and working face to face they say. The owners of my job said the same.

Interestingly enough, I also work at a Wall Street bank and the executive team have taken a different approach. Sure, this will not necessarily apply to bankers, traders and relationship management teams which are heavily client-facing professions, however, many banks in the industry, including Goldman Sachs, are considering less facetime in the office.

And may I add that JPM's culture isn't quite the standard especially given its reputation in overworking their employees to the point of suicide. Its "company culture" is not what employers are quick to try and exemplify.
 
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oneastrocurlie

Well-Known Member
Interestingly enough, I also work at a Wall Street bank and the executive team have taken a different approach. Sure, this will not necessarily apply to bankers, traders and relationship management teams which are heavily client-facing professions, however, many banks in the industry, including Goldman Sachs, are considering less facetime in the office.

And may I add that JPM's culture isn't quite the standard especially given its reputation in overworking their employees to the point of suicide. Its "company culture" is not what employers are quick to try and exemplify.

I'm familiar with JPMC having worked there and having family that still does and current coworkers that used to.

I mentioned them because my job is family owned and isn't cracking the Fortune 80000 but it was interesting my job's founders used that same reasoning about company culture and why they are, at the moment, moving to transition us back into the office. CEO minds think alike perhaps?

Idk how wide spread the work from home/less human face to face contact life is going to be. A lot of industries can't survive off that. It definitely sounds good though. I'm glad people are getting the flexibility.

Some people's new normal just might be extra hand sanitizer stations and less people allowed in the break room at once at work.

It's funny how many times I hear "cause of covid" and it's a complaint, not a praise for some improvement.
 

Lylddlebit

Well-Known Member
Dang @Lylddlebit, you've been super productive during the pandemic. Just how did you learn to scale and deep clean your teeth though? :look:
My dental hygienist actually taught me over the years. She is passionate about her trade and I am inquisitive. She has walked me though how she scales my teeth while cleaning them more time's than I can count. She has talked to me about how she scales her own in the mirror at home instead of getting cleanings herself. In hindsight she was teaching me, I just wasn't using it yet. I like talking to people about stuff they are passionate and learn a lot during everyday experiences from people. Once, the pandemic hit and my dental check up came around I wasn't(still am not) comfortable going to the dentist but I didn't want my dental routine to fall off either. So I remembered that she scales her own teeth and ordered a manual set of dental scalers that matched what I knew was used at the dental office along with an ultrasonic one and gave scaling my own teeth a go. I don't actually need the ultrasonic one, manually deep cleaning my teeth works fine, and I have only gotten my teeth ultrasonically scaled once after going years without a dental visit (my sister teases me in saying I probably got a defibrillator in one of my closets just in case someone has a heart attack because she knows I will pull out a random skill or tool in a minute lol). It's not hard to learn though especially in front of a mirror and with youtube. I plan to do my own cleanings until things stabilize with covid. Everything was taken care of visit December 2019(normally I only get cleanings but a few cavities surfaced on filings I had since I was a teenager after I had my little one so December 2019 is when I got those fillings replaced after weaning and I expected my hormone levels to be more like normal) so I am just letting things run their course before I resume normal cleanings. I am only using this like a bridge until things are more stable. After a year I don't see any signs of tarter build up even behind my teeth and I will want to get x rays soon but this is a good band-aid for now.
 
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TrulyBlessed

Well-Known Member

Man accidentally gets one Moderna and one Pfizer COVID vaccine​

By Hannah Frishberg
A mix-up led this man to get a vaccine combo pack.

While getting his second COVID-19 vaccine dose on Tuesday, a New Hampshire man accidentally received the Pfizer jab, despite his first dose having been from Moderna. Despite the unfortunate mishap, officials say he’ll be just fine, with no further shots needed for now.

“He said, ‘You ready for a poke?’ I said, ‘Sure,’ and he poked me,” New Hampshire resident Craig Richards told Manchester’s WMUR News 9 of the experience returning for his second vaccine dose this week at the same location where he’d gotten his first. “As soon as he poked me, he looked down at my card, and I think he realized he just gave me the Pfizer.”

Richards then pointed out the error.

“I looked at him and said, ‘You did not just give me the wrong shot.’ And he bolted!” Richards said. While the man may have panicked in response to realizing his mistake, Richards believes he also may have just been reacting to getting the stink eye.

“I don’t know if I had a real angry face on,” he said.

Shortly thereafter, the man’s supervisor approached Richards to discuss what had happened and to reassure him that, despite the error, all would be well.

“ ‘You’re going to be fine. The good news is, you are fully vaccinated,’ ” Richards said the supervisor told him. Still, he remained upset and concerned.

“I’m just, like, ‘This isn’t happening,’ ” he said of his response.

While medical experts reached by News 9 declined to comment on the situation due to the lack of data regarding mixing vaccine brands, New Hampshire’s Department of Health and Human Services released a statement late Wednesday offering further reassurance. Mixing brands, while possibly not ideal or as effective as receiving two shots from either Moderna or Pfizer, is a safe alternative in an emergency situation, the department explained.

While not recommended, authorities say receiving one dose of each COVID-19 vaccine brand is safe. AP
“A mixed series is safe, as (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) guidance recommends mixing the series if the brand from the first dose is not available at the second dose,” their statement said. “While there have not been any clinical studies on whether a mixed series is as effective as a complete series, it will still provide enough protection that a third dose is not necessary or recommended.”

CDC guidelines, available at the organization’s site, note: “The safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product.” However, the CDC further instructs, “If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time.”

Richards says the ordeal has left him anxious for more information, even though he feels physically fine.

“With everything going on with Johnson & Johnson being pulled, you go home and you’re uneasy about the whole thing,” he said. “They screwed up. Something is wrong over there.”

 

Crackers Phinn

Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.

Man accidentally gets one Moderna and one Pfizer COVID vaccine​

By Hannah Frishberg
A mix-up led this man to get a vaccine combo pack.

While getting his second COVID-19 vaccine dose on Tuesday, a New Hampshire man accidentally received the Pfizer jab, despite his first dose having been from Moderna. Despite the unfortunate mishap, officials say he’ll be just fine, with no further shots needed for now.

“He said, ‘You ready for a poke?’ I said, ‘Sure,’ and he poked me,” New Hampshire resident Craig Richards told Manchester’s WMUR News 9 of the experience returning for his second vaccine dose this week at the same location where he’d gotten his first. “As soon as he poked me, he looked down at my card, and I think he realized he just gave me the Pfizer.”

Richards then pointed out the error.

“I looked at him and said, ‘You did not just give me the wrong shot.’ And he bolted!” Richards said. While the man may have panicked in response to realizing his mistake, Richards believes he also may have just been reacting to getting the stink eye.

“I don’t know if I had a real angry face on,” he said.

Shortly thereafter, the man’s supervisor approached Richards to discuss what had happened and to reassure him that, despite the error, all would be well.

“ ‘You’re going to be fine. The good news is, you are fully vaccinated,’ ” Richards said the supervisor told him. Still, he remained upset and concerned.

“I’m just, like, ‘This isn’t happening,’ ” he said of his response.

While medical experts reached by News 9 declined to comment on the situation due to the lack of data regarding mixing vaccine brands, New Hampshire’s Department of Health and Human Services released a statement late Wednesday offering further reassurance. Mixing brands, while possibly not ideal or as effective as receiving two shots from either Moderna or Pfizer, is a safe alternative in an emergency situation, the department explained.

While not recommended, authorities say receiving one dose of each COVID-19 vaccine brand is safe. AP
“A mixed series is safe, as (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) guidance recommends mixing the series if the brand from the first dose is not available at the second dose,” their statement said. “While there have not been any clinical studies on whether a mixed series is as effective as a complete series, it will still provide enough protection that a third dose is not necessary or recommended.”

CDC guidelines, available at the organization’s site, note: “The safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product.” However, the CDC further instructs, “If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time.”

Richards says the ordeal has left him anxious for more information, even though he feels physically fine.

“With everything going on with Johnson & Johnson being pulled, you go home and you’re uneasy about the whole thing,” he said. “They screwed up. Something is wrong over there.”

This was my worry about getting the shot at CVS cuz I would never have gotten a flu shot there. I was glad that they were only giving one type of vaccine at the location. :dead: @ the dude running away when he realized what he'd done.
 

awhyley

Well-Known Member

Man accidentally gets one Moderna and one Pfizer COVID vaccine​

By Hannah Frishberg
A mix-up led this man to get a vaccine combo pack.

While getting his second COVID-19 vaccine dose on Tuesday, a New Hampshire man accidentally received the Pfizer jab, despite his first dose having been from Moderna. Despite the unfortunate mishap, officials say he’ll be just fine, with no further shots needed for now.

“He said, ‘You ready for a poke?’ I said, ‘Sure,’ and he poked me,” New Hampshire resident Craig Richards told Manchester’s WMUR News 9 of the experience returning for his second vaccine dose this week at the same location where he’d gotten his first. “As soon as he poked me, he looked down at my card, and I think he realized he just gave me the Pfizer.”

Richards then pointed out the error.

“I looked at him and said, ‘You did not just give me the wrong shot.’ And he bolted!” Richards said. While the man may have panicked in response to realizing his mistake, Richards believes he also may have just been reacting to getting the stink eye.

“I don’t know if I had a real angry face on,” he said.

Shortly thereafter, the man’s supervisor approached Richards to discuss what had happened and to reassure him that, despite the error, all would be well.

“ ‘You’re going to be fine. The good news is, you are fully vaccinated,’ ” Richards said the supervisor told him. Still, he remained upset and concerned.

“I’m just, like, ‘This isn’t happening,’ ” he said of his response.

While medical experts reached by News 9 declined to comment on the situation due to the lack of data regarding mixing vaccine brands, New Hampshire’s Department of Health and Human Services released a statement late Wednesday offering further reassurance. Mixing brands, while possibly not ideal or as effective as receiving two shots from either Moderna or Pfizer, is a safe alternative in an emergency situation, the department explained.

While not recommended, authorities say receiving one dose of each COVID-19 vaccine brand is safe. AP
“A mixed series is safe, as (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) guidance recommends mixing the series if the brand from the first dose is not available at the second dose,” their statement said. “While there have not been any clinical studies on whether a mixed series is as effective as a complete series, it will still provide enough protection that a third dose is not necessary or recommended.”

CDC guidelines, available at the organization’s site, note: “The safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product.” However, the CDC further instructs, “If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time.”

Richards says the ordeal has left him anxious for more information, even though he feels physically fine.

“With everything going on with Johnson & Johnson being pulled, you go home and you’re uneasy about the whole thing,” he said. “They screwed up. Something is wrong over there.”


It was only a matter of time for this type of thing to start happening. :nono:
(He'll be a good test study though. They should monitor him.)
 

OhTall1

Well-Known Member
Here I am again one day after Pfizer dose 2. Everything hurts.

View attachment 471591
I had minor fatigue - far less than what I experienced after the first shot - and two days of a sore arm after I got my second shot on Sunday. Meanwhile, a coworker who just got his yesterday has had headache, fever, stomach ache and back ache over the past 24 hours.
 

Crackers Phinn

Either A Blessing Or A Lesson.
For the folks on the second shot: Do your instructions say drink 16 oz of water at least one hour before getting the shot?
This came up with someone at the office who is getting her shot at CVS and asked me if I had heard anybody talk about water consumption and the shot. I told her those instructions were what had me drinking water like a fish as soon as I got the email. Despite my nagging, I don't think the old man drank any more water than normal and he is still kind of wonky from Sunday.
 

Peppermynt

Defying Gravity
I've heard drinking water (remaining hydrated - no coffee etc.) prior to the 2nd shot is supposed to help. Also heard you should move your arm around to help disperse the shot after receiving it. No idea if that helps but I'll be flapping mine like a bird on Saturday.

Also read this which makes me feel better about the variants - and less concerned about the folks that refuse to get vaccinated and the mutations they may be causing:


COVID-19 Variants: Here's How The Vaccines Still Protect You​

The coronavirus shots don't just produce antibodies -- they also create T-cells. Here's what those are, and why they matter.

It seems like each day there’s more bad news about coronavirus variants.

There are headlines claiming the variants are becoming deadlier, and stories warning that some variants could escape the vaccines, imprisoning us in a never-ending pandemic. With every step forward — like how millions of Americans are being vaccinated daily — it feels as though the variants send us two steps back.

A growing number of infectious disease experts are now saying the variant narrative has spiraled out of control. Yes, there are several variants circulating, and it’s true that some appear to be more transmissible. Yes, we need to continue wearing masks and protecting ourselves and others until we get closer to herd immunity. But there’s no definite evidence that any of the variants are more virulent, and there is currently no reason to think the variants will render our vaccines completely useless, infectious disease experts say.

Our immune systems are extremely complex, and even if some parts of the immune system don’t respond as robustly to the variants after vaccination, it’s not going to give up on us that easily.

Here’s why:

The COVID vaccines help you produce antibodies ― and they trigger another immune response that also fights the virus.​

Much of the research regarding immunity against COVID-19 (which can be achieved either through vaccination or natural infection) has looked at antibodies. These little fighters go after the coronavirus and prevent it from binding to cells in our body and creating an infection. Some lab studies have found that antibodies don’t do as good of a job fighting variants, which has raised fears that the vaccines might not be able to keep us safe.

But antibodies don’t tell the full story. When people say antibody levels dip ― and therefore protection against COVID-19 disappears ― “this is totally wrong,” said Jay Levy, a virologist and professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.

The immune system is very complex, and in addition to antibodies, there’s a whole other aspect, known as the cell-mediated immune response, that’s just as important, if not more. This part helps create something called T-cells, which are crucial to preventing infections. The COVID-19 vaccines don’t just generate antibodies; they also prompt your immune system to produce T-cells.

“T-cells are the main line of defense against the virus,” said Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease specialist with UCSF. T-cells can identify many different parts of the coronavirus (some studies say up to 52 parts) and get rid of any cells that are carrying the virus. The cell-mediated immune response can also help our systems produce new antibodies if need be. Mutations or not, T-cells will still be able to detect the virus and jump into action. “Your immune response is very complex, very robust, and very in-breadth against multiple parts of the virus,” Gandhi said.

So, why aren’t we all talking about how awesome T-cells are? They’re really hard to measure, Gandhi said, whereas measuring antibodies involves a simple blood test. But researchers have looked at the cell-mediated immune response in people who were either vaccinated or had COVID-19, and the findings are exciting.

For one thing, all of the vaccine clinical trials found that participants produced strong T-cell responses after vaccination, according to Gandhi. There’s also evidence that the variants probably aren’t going to have a very meaningful effect on the immunity we get from being fully vaccinated. Two recent studies found the T-cell response was unaffected by variants, and another paper found that while some antibodies diminished against variants, our T-cell response held up just fine.

When it comes to COVID-19, a robust T-cell response is the difference between a mild infection and serious disease, research shows. The cells can’t always prevent an infection, but they may be able to clear it out quickly so you don’t get badly sick. If you get vaccinated, “you don’t need to worry about getting infected — or if you do [get infected], that you will have any serious illness,” Levy said.

How long will these T-cells last?​

From the looks of it, even if antibody levels wane over time, T-cells are probably going to keep us protected against variants for a while, especially when it comes to severe disease, according to Gandhi.

The coronavirus would have to change pretty dramatically to totally escape recognition from the cellular immune response and render our vaccines useless. “The cellular immune response seems to be a little more diverse, or a little more inclusive, so it can pick up small, little changes that a variant might have and still handle it,” Levy said.

The cell-mediated immune response can also have a lengthy memory. Researchers have evaluated the blood of people who had the SARS coronavirus in 2003, and found their T-cell immunity has persisted for up to 17 years. The T-cell response has similarly held up in people who’ve been vaccinated against measles for 34 years and counting.

COVID-19 is a little over a year old, but early evidence suggests our T-cells will last, though it’s unclear exactly how long. Some experts say we may need booster shots eventually, and scientists are already working on those. But given the durability of our cellular immunity, many infectious disease experts think boosters, at least in the near future, will be unnecessary.

Researchers will continue studying how components of the immune system — antibodies, T-cells and everything in between — deal with the coronavirus over time, but we know the immune system is robust and durable when it comes to fighting viruses.
So, if you’re vaccinated, the next time you read a chilling headline about a variant, take a breath and think of the T-cells. “Know that the T-cells work against the variants and you are OK,” Gandhi said.

Experts are still learning about COVID-19. The information in this story is what was known or available as of publication, but guidance can change as scientists discover more about the virus. Please check the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for the most updated recommendations.
 
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