The Man Who's Had Two Sex Changes

[barbiesocialite]

I hope that as society evolves we recognize this for what it is and get these people the help that they need.

I'm def leaning toward mental illness. I would not be opposed to legislation or rewriting medical diagnoses to classify it as such.

Honestly I think the Bruce Jenner situation was impactful in ways no one imagined. Instead of this revolving door of acceptance, people have begun to look at trasgenders with more of a critical eye.

 

[Keen]

WOW. I actually think what he's saying makes perfect sense.

Makes sense to me too. However, I think he is putting to much responsibility on the surgeons.

 

[ForestRose]

I'm def leaning toward mental illness. I would not be opposed to legislation or rewriting medical diagnoses to classify it as such.

Honestly I think the Bruce Jenner situation was impactful in ways no one imagined. Instead of this revolving door of acceptance, people have begun to look at trasgenders with more of a critical eye.

I totally agree. It's only until after the Bruce/Caitlyn thing happened did I become more skeptical of the treatment of people with gender dysphoria. I used to watch a doc called lady boys (about Thai MtF trans people) for a while and found it so interesting and entertaining in a good way.

Bruce outed himself on his own show. Imo all he did was show how he is a man dressed up as a women. All his mannerisms and behaviours were nothing like a women's. He doesn't even have the sense of sensitivity that nearly every women has. This isn't something that has to be learnt. It's something that we are born with. He also said stupid **** like dating a man would make him feel feminine. Really?!

 

[DarkJoy]

Every TG Ive known has been molested or suffered extreme trauma. Every single one. So I get the article in the op.

 

[DragonPearl]

Not true.

Bruce Jenner was happily married by his own account for most of his last marriage.

I have a difficult time taking at face value anything Caitlyn says about her marriage. How can you be happily married when you're living a lie everyday? it makes no sense to me. Also people who are happily married don't break up their marriages. They do everything possible to hold on to that marriage, to that happiness.

 

[DragonPearl]

I hope that as society evolves we recognize this for what it is and get these people the help that they need.

You're saying that this is a mental illness, right? Imo some of them are mentally ill, some are not. I think not identifying with your birth gender is not necessarily a mental illness. I think the delusional belief that you are now fully a member of the opposite gender because of surgery and hormones qualifies as mental illness. It's just my opinion, which may evolve...

 

[DarkJoy]

I said this is another thread when I studied TGism. In my mind its really the primary explanation and means these folk need help not surgical mutilation.

Walt himself says he suffers from dissociative disorder, which disrupts his memories and sense of self-identity. Mental health charity Mind says dissociative disordersdisrupt 'your sense of reality and who you are'.

It can be considered an involuntary defence-mechanism to shield the victim from some kind of psychological trauma.

 

[Texasdymond]

'All they do is pump people full of hormones, put in breast implants and declare that they've manufactured a female. It's biologically impossible to make a man into a woman.'
.

The bolded brings a bible verse to mind that I'm going to paraphrase- "The world's wisdom is foolishness to God."

Of course its impossible to biologically turn a man into a woman. You can't undo what God has done. Dont know why this is such a difficult concept for mankind.

 

[FemmeCreole]

WOW. I actually think what he's saying makes perfect sense.

So do I

 

[DarkJoy]

Off topic: In an attempt to learn about FTM transitioning, I follow an IG page dedicated to them. All I can think of is these FTM transitioners getting their breasts removed (aka Top Surgery)...which is REALLY strange to see on a woman who has the stretchmarks after having 4 kids...T-shots (aka Vitamin T for testosterone) to promote hair and muscle growth...and thinking.....These new buff guys still have periods though?.... Gotta be interesting if you date a female.

Glad you brought this up. The world is so focused on mtf but ftm is way more fascinating:

yep they might get periods for a while. And depending on the person the top surgery can leave a mass of scars.

And while we're on it, most are still anatomically female from the waist down and still respond like a woman sexually (some might get hysterectomies but the outter equipment is still there)... so really Whats the point? You cut off your tits, have no dyck, still get wet, and put yourself through wearing a "prosthetic" aka dildo all day. They call it a prosthetic as if they've lost a limb! why I say its a mental illness.

Whats real weird is sharing your birthing and mentrual stories with a "man" who comes right back with "his" birth stories! Mind F.... lemme tell you.

Sorry to be so crude but it is what it is.

 

[beingofserenity]

Glad you brought this up. The world is so focused on mtf but ftm is way more fascinating:

yep they might get periods for a while. And depending on the person the top surgery can leave a mass of scars.

And while we're on it, most are still anatomically female from the waist down and still respond like a woman sexually (some might get hysterectomies but the outter equipment is still there)... so really Whats the point? You cut off your tits, have no dyck, still get wet, and put yourself through wearing a "prosthetic" aka dildo all day. They call it a prosthetic as if they've lost a limb! why I say its a mental illness.

Whats real weird is sharing your birthing and mentrual stories with a "man" who comes right back with "his" birth stories! Mind F.... lemme tell you.

Sorry to be so crude but it is what it is.

So they can't construct a penis...?

 

[Mortons]

This is the fault of a man entirely and not the fault of surgeons. This kind of personality (not trans gendered person, but the man himself and his personality) is clearly one that is very confused and intense. He likely has some kind of mental illness that is not related to being trans, but related to his own life experiences and mental break down.

That said, I hate these narratives. I am not supposed to, but I do. Because instead of it being taken as one experience out of millions on earth, people create some kind of "theory" about all people around this one persons experience, while not acknowledging the other millions. As a minority group these things are less...affordable.

 

[Zaynab]

So do I

Now I think Bruce/Cait just wants to dress up in women's clothes. I don't think he wants to be a woman?

 

[Mortons]

So they can't construct a penis...?

Yes they can. And all the mtf that I know stopped getting their period...because the plumbing was removed. the penis, however, has length but no thickness so it always looks "different". Well different by the experiences of a US Black woman I suppose....now in Japan they might blend right on in

 

[FemmeCreole]

Now I think Bruce/Cait just wants to dress up in women's clothes. I don't think he wants to be a woman?

He's one who I believe will revert in the future, if he lives long enough. I'll give him 5 years to see what happens.

 

[PJaye]

Wouldn't be something if in the future we find that it is a perverse result of patriarchy and misogyny? Say the trauma happens to a child just at the time when they are becoming aware of gender roles and in case of boys, they identify with the gender they feel is more powerless.

...or powerful.

 

[Mortons]

I believe that Caitlyn was supposed to be a woman. But his experience in 50-60 years of living a very privileged life due to his white maleness is going to be a hard transition for him. He identified as a republican, said awful things about gay marriage, and is under the mistaken impression that the same people who were his friends are still going to react the same way to him. He will have the hardest time moving out of the rich, white republican male idea to the mindframe of a woman.

this is why I am an advocate for coming out early and transitioning early. A person who was acknowledged and started the transition as a woman when they are in puberty will have the "experiences" they need to grow towards womanhood or manhood along with their body. At 50 you will always be a split soul.

 

[DarkJoy]

So they can't construct a penis...?

yes they can. The ones i know didnt for these reasons:

1. its extremely expensive and complicated:

2. it does not get erect on its own. the surgeon has to implant a manual pump the tg uses to get it up before coitus, and

3. there is the risk the nerves could be severed making orgasms impossible.

Ive read a lot of ftm dont do bottom surgery for these reasons. Obviously some do. Seems to be a mashup there.

 

[CaraWalker]

You're saying that this is a mental illness, right? Imo some of them are mentally ill, some are not. I think not identifying with your birth gender is not necessarily a mental illness. I think the delusional belief that you are now fully a member of the opposite gender because of surgery and hormones qualifies as mental illness. It's just my opinion, which may evolve...

right. you feel dysphoria. ok. you mutilate yourself. ok. your life, your issues. but when you are expecting everyone to play along with this fantasy world thats where your issues stop making sense. cause they ARE yours, not mine, to deal with.

Glad you brought this up. The world is so focused on mtf but ftm is way more fascinating:

yep they might get periods for a while. And depending on the person the top surgery can leave a mass of scars.

And while we're on it, most are still anatomically female from the waist down and still respond like a woman sexually (some might get hysterectomies but the outter equipment is still there)... so really Whats the point? You cut off your tits, have no dyck, still get wet, and put yourself through wearing a "prosthetic" aka dildo all day. They call it a prosthetic as if they've lost a limb! why I say its a mental illness.

Whats real weird is sharing your birthing and mentrual stories with a "man" who comes right back with "his" birth stories! Mind F.... lemme tell you.

Sorry to be so crude but it is what it is.

they have adapted the idea that biology is so completely divorced from gender that they dont believe their genitals have anything to do with anything. thats why we have this narrative of "not being preoccupied with what someone has between their legs" and "assigned at birth" and this whole ridiculous argument that you are a bigot if you care what genitals someone has. it blows my mind that you can hang all this ****ing rhetoric on what someone "presents" as, ie the deep need to look like a certain gender on the outside yet forget all about it when it comes to sex. if you can understand someone is or is not attracted to how you look, or its so damn life or death inportant that you "present" and "pass" as male or female, why is that no longer relevant when it comes to how your genitals look?

 

[barbiesocialite]

Now I think Bruce/Cait just wants to dress up in women's clothes. I don't think he wants to be a woman?

Ive been saying this forever. Bruce seems like a cross dresser to me.

I think hes a narcissist and an entitled arrogant prick who decided the only way for him to steal attention back away from the Kardashians back to him is through this bull.....

 

[nysister]

I wish I could remember the link/article, but a surgeon at a hospital here (Johns Hopkins?) said that they would no longer do sex changes for that reason, basically that the long lasting effects can damage someone and sometimes Doctors are too quick to perform them, so they'd rather err on the side of caution or something to that effect.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I believe that Caitlyn was supposed to be a woman. But his experience in 50-60 years of living a very privileged life due to his white maleness is going to be a hard transition for him. He identified as a republican, said awful things about gay marriage, and is under the mistaken impression that the same people who were his friends are still going to react the same way to him. He will have the hardest time moving out of the rich, white republican male idea to the mindframe of a woman.

this is why I am an advocate for coming out early and transitioning early. A person who was acknowledged and started the transition as a woman when they are in puberty will have the "experiences" they need to grow towards womanhood or manhood along with their body. At 50 you will always be a split soul.

Plus old ppl set in their ways.

Hard for the average joe. Most people cannot afford this at a young age.

 

[DragonPearl]

I believe that Caitlyn was supposed to be a woman. But his experience in 50-60 years of living a very privileged life due to his white maleness is going to be a hard transition for him. He identified as a republican, said awful things about gay marriage, and is under the mistaken impression that the same people who were his friends are still going to react the same way to him. He will have the hardest time moving out of the rich, white republican male idea to the mindframe of a woman.

this is why I am an advocate for coming out early and transitioning early. A person who was acknowledged and started the transition as a woman when they are in puberty will have the "experiences" they need to grow towards womanhood or manhood along with their body. At 50 you will always be a split soul.

The irony is that had Caitlyn transitioned in puberty, she would have never become the olympic champion she later became.

And i am not convinced transitioning in puberty gives the transperson the "experiences" to grow toward womanhood/manhood. Especially for the MTF. growing into a woman is more than growing boobs. A MTF will have no menstrual periods. No PMS. No worries about birth control. No worries about pregnancy. Having to disclose or hide their birth gender. Their experience is truly unique and different.

 

[Honey Bee]

I have a difficult time taking at face value anything Caitlyn says about her marriage. How can you be happily married when you're living a lie everyday? it makes no sense to me. Also people who are happily married don't break up their marriages. They do everything possible to hold on to that marriage, to that happiness.

You're saying that this is a mental illness, right? Imo some of them are mentally ill, some are not. I think not identifying with your birth gender is not necessarily a mental illness. I think the delusional belief that you are now fully a member of the opposite gender because of surgery and hormones qualifies as mental illness. It's just my opinion, which may evolve...

I think you can be both 'happily married'* and mentally ill at he same time.

*in quotes because what people call 'happily married' and what is actually 'happily married' can be two different things.

 

[Mortons]

The irony is that had Caitlyn transitioned in puberty, she would have never become the olympic champion she later became.

And i am not convinced transitioning in puberty gives the transperson the "experiences" to grow toward womanhood/manhood. Especially for the MTF. growing into a woman is more than growing boobs. A MTF will have no menstrual periods. No PMS. No worries about birth control. No worries about pregnancy. Having to disclose or hide their birth gender. Their experience is truly unique and different.

I don't worry about birth control, pms, nor pregnancy. I worry about many other things than reproduction. Not saying it's not unique, am saying it is easier to exist in a life you know for a long period of time.

 

[Zaynab]

Makes sense to me too. However, I think he is putting to much responsibility on the surgeons.

Right. But what he's saying is we are a fixit society, take a pill, get surgery, let's fixit and move on, instead of focusing on the internal/psychological reasons why a person would want a sex change. It's much like people who have weight loss surgery, many of them gain the weight back or find ways to eat more than they actually can because overeating is more of a mental thing IMO, not a desire to eat. I know weight loss surgery patients-their stomachs don't even growl after surgery.

 

[natura87]

I was on a forum that provided tips for vaginal cups. One of their rules was not to refer to the members as ladies/women/girls, etc. because not everyone that has a period identifies with those genders. Craziest **** ever.

Im sorry but if you are using a DivaCup I'm going to call you a lady
*** feelings.
*** wherever the hell you aloghn yourself on the LGTBVRQWPZ spectrum.

Its meant for a woman, thus I will call anyone that uses it a woman. Its not my job to conform to someone else's gender/ sexual identity.

 

[CurlsandPeace]

I went to his site, the testimonials are fascinating.

 

[Kurlee]

Wouldn't be something if in the future we find that it is a perverse result of patriarchy and misogyny? Say the trauma happens to a child just at the time when they are becoming aware of gender roles and in case of boys, they identify with the gender they feel is more powerless.

I think that this theory has legs!

 

[DragonPearl]

I don't worry about birth control, pms, nor pregnancy. I worry about many other things than reproduction. Not saying it's not unique, am saying it is easier to exist in a life you know for a long period of time.

Correct. As a gay woman, you don't worry about reproduction since gay sex does not produce offsprings. But god forbid you should be raped, you would have to worry about that, unless you had your reproductive organs taken out. A fully transitioned transgender never has to worry about that.

Should I even go into the host of other ailments that only happen to women as they go through life, regardless of reproductive and sexual choices? Fibroids. cysts, endometriosis, menopause and hot flashes etc... That's why there is a specialty in medicine called gynecology.

what I would like to know is, other than wearing makeup and girly clothes, in which way is a transgender's experience of womanhood similar to that of a natural born woman?