The most important info you will hear all year.....promise

[Amarech]

OK I may be overstating myself but I just feel so strongly about this that I have to share my personal experience.

I just recently, after over a year as a LHCF member, finally did a successful self perm.

About 7 months ago I was researching perms and discovered some info on neutralizing. Long story short, about 90% of us (myself included)


do not properly neutralize!!!!!

OK if you still do not realize the gravity of that statement consider this:


When we apply perm i.e. relaxer it is not just being applied to the hair and thats it.
The relaxer breaks down the bonds that make our hair curl blah blah blah.... but those bonds are within the hair shaft (cortex). Not the surface (cuticle). so when we neutralize what do we do? we add the neutralizing shampoo that comes with the kit. It probably has some color indicator to let you know that the perm is all out.


But oh! here is the clincher. you think that the perm is all gone when that lather turns white?? NO! The perm is still there even when you have washed the recommended 3 times until the lather turns the proper color.

Do you know why? Because when you lather rinse and repeat you are only neutralizing the perm on the hair shaft not the perm on the inner cortex. that means that there is perm still working on your hair after you have finished with your hair.

If i didn't fully realize or believe it, I do now because of personal experience.

One week ago, I permed my hair with Vitale I lathered up and rinsed three times until the lather was no longer pink but white. Instead of going about my business with conditioning, I decided to lather up again but this time I set a timer---for five minutes. I let that lather sit on my hair for the full five minutes.

Guess what color the lather was? PINK!
The lather was PINK! PINK as in there is still relaxer in your hair PINK!

KNow what color it was when I lathered up again?

WHITE!
I still had relaxer in my hair even after the lather turned white the first time!

The reason for this phenomenon is that neutralization is not instantaneous. It requires time (all you science nerds like myself know this).
How many of your stylists let it sit? Those who do, thats good. Those who don't y'all betta speak up.


Avant says he has 4 minutes,
but I say I've got at least 5 or all my hair gon fall out!!!!

 

[hondahoney007]

Thanks for the heads up Taij. I'm thinking about self relaxing in the near future. I'm going to have to remember this.

 

[BerrySweet]

Yes proper neturalization is key. You gotta let it sit on your head for awhile after the 1st few washes. When I relaxed I would shampoo til it was white, and then let it sit for about 5 mins, and then shampoo 2x cuz it would turn colors again.

 

[jackie1277]

Wow. Thanks for the info!! This is the first time I've heard of this. Of course I've only been on here for 6 months or so, but still.

It's scary that we don't neurtralize right. Right now I'm trying to stretch my relaxer past 12 weeks (never gone past 8 weeks before) and that's b/c I've just noticed that since I've started self-relaxing the top of my hair (not the ends) just seems overly dry and I'm "thinking" maybe over processed! When I first started out it was all on Virgin hair and my hair was bouncy and curly now I have just frizzy hair on top.

Again thanks for this info, hopefully in addition to stretching this will help w/ the overprocessing!!

 

[Sweetcoco82]

I have known about this since i got my first relaxer. Even though my mother did relax my hair when i was 8 years old. She went out and read up on how to take car of hair properly and thats one things she did. She rinsed and shampooed my hair so many times after my first relaxer i wasn't sure if i'd ever want another. So i have always washed more times the the relaxer says too. Then i would leave it on after a few washes for awhile then wash it a few more times.

 

[Ariana4000]

Thank you. I've never heard this.

 

[anatomicallycorrect]

I've had some stylists who've let it sit. I even had one who put me under the dryer (I thought she didn't know what she was doing and got scared that she hadn't neutralized me at all! ), but I never knew why. Thanks for this heads up. Great info.

 

[anatomicallycorrect]

I want to also say that I think that this post should be stickied

 

[Healthb4Length]

GOOD LOOKING OUT! I WILL FOLLOW THESE STEPS WHEN SELF RELAX. MY FORMER STYLIST WOULD LET ME SIT WITH THE NEUTRALIZING SHAMPOO FOR A GOOD 10 MINUTES AND RINSE TWICE, I'LL BE DOING THE SAME WHEN I SELF RELAX.

 

[Sistaslick]

Someone mentioned it here before in a thread awhile back: http://longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=65648&highlight=neutralize+minutes

but yes, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS let the neutralizer sit first before I ever continue on. My cousin is a stylist and instilled that in all of us. It takes me about 30-45 minutes to properly neutralize my hair (b/c I am super paranoid). This is another reason I self relax, because I cannot convince a stylist (with clients waiting impatiently for me to get up so they can be next) to spend this much time and care on me. I even noticed that the lather turns almost FUSCHIA if you scrub your scalp really good while trying to get the neutralizer out. Whether we like it or not, relaxer can penetrate the fatty skin layers of the scalp as well if it touches. I try to base my scalp really well, but even then I think the relaxer "clings" to the base.

That 1-2-3 relaxer rinse that most people do really doesn't cut it in the long run.

 

[legaldiva]

Just started doing this but I let my neutralizer sit on my hair for at least 20 minutes AFTER the third or so lather as though it were a treatment. I pretty much use the whole bottle of shampoo.

 

[RabiaElaine]

I've always wondered about this....I am seriously considering self-relaxing next time (though the last stylist that did my relaxer did a great job of following my instructions) I'm starting to think that I'm the only one who will really care to take proper precautions and steps with my hair.

Luckily I have eliminated the need for a stylist, except for getting relaxers. Hopefully I'll get up the nerve before the next time I relax.


I wonder how this applies to the Affirm relaxer instructions of using the Sustenance conditioner before shampooing with the neutralizer.....

 

[Sistaslick]

I wonder how this applies to the Affirm relaxer instructions of using the Sustenance conditioner before shampooing with the neutralizer.....

Rabia, all the neutralizer does is bring down the pH of the hair so that the alkaline relaxer chemicals (usually pH 11-14) can no longer continue breaking it down. In fact, everything you apply after the relaxer will bring down the pH, including the water itself (pH 7). Conditioners applied after the relaxer and before the neutralizer also have "neutralizing" effects because their pH's are much lower than whatever the relaxer was-- usually between 4 and 6, which is also the normal pH of hair. But from what I've read, using something in this range will only really bring the pH down from 11-14 to about 6 or 7 which is still higher than the ideal- which is why neutalizing poo is still needed to follow up. Neutralizing poos (pH 3-5) bring it down even more to ensure that alkaline relaxer is completely halted and the hair is totally normalized.

 

[senimoni]

Assuming your beautician won't neutralize as long as you like, would it be beneficial to neutralize again later that day. Is there a "neutralizing" conditioner?

 

[JazzyDez]

Wow that is some great info. Thanks for posting this. When I used to self relax I would only wash until the pink came out. I never thought about letting it sit. Another likely cause of my hair problems. I now go to a stylist but I need to make sure next time she is doing this.

 

[MizaniMami]

Wow thanks for the info!!!

 

[Isis]

Very good information!
I do lather up several times with the neutralizer and let it sit, not because I read about it but because I need to make absolutely sure my hair is neutralized. I use up the whole bottle too. I don't mind this kind of paranoia.

 

[meia]

i remember i went to sally's once before with my old roomate and the lady there told us that (and mind you i hadn't heard it before until her) that you have to neutralize well...the relaxer continues to process long after the intial chemicals are removed and most people don't neutralize after anyways because they don't know that...lol shoot i didn't even know that...

she recommended isoplus' neutralizing shampoo (mmmm smelled like coconuts) and it did a damn good job but i pretty much ended up using the whole bottle...but i did notice a difference in texture- wasn't as coarse as usual...but this was months ago...i stopped perming for personal reasons but this was pretty important when i did self-perm!

 

[anatomicallycorrect]

Thinking about this more, yes I think I've had a lot of hairdressers who did neutralize pretty well b/c now I can remember them leaving me sitting over the bowl in that uncomfortable position with "something" in my hair, so I guess that's what was going on. But the last one I went to didn't.

 

[Faith]

Assuming your beautician won't neutralize as long as you like, would it be beneficial to neutralize again later that day. Is there a "neutralizing" conditioner?

Motions sells one...

What I would do was leave the 5in 1 for 5minutes then neutralize about 3x..leaving the last shampoo in for 3-5 minutes. Then about 3 days later I neutralize again..leaving it in another 3-5 minutes.

 

[Neroli]

This is why I like the "neutralizing condish" phase of affirm where you apply the condish immediately after rinsing out the relaxer and let it sit at least 5 minutes (I try to go 10 minutes) then rinse, then apply neutralizing poo . . .

 

[Arcadian]

I always used something like porosity control to bring down the ph before I start washing. I now use affirm sustenance for 5-7 minutes, then wash my hair with the neutralizing shampoo.

Once I couldn't get them bubbles to turn white no matter WHAT I did. I ended up putting the shampoo in my hair and letting it sit for 15 minutes...that did the trick. I'm now letting the shampoo sit in my head longer than the 5 minutes I used to do.

This is some very good info to know.

-A

 

[sereia]

When I neutralize I rinse the first shampoo after working it through to get the relaxer and the mineral oil off the surface. The second time I let the shampoo sit for 10 to 15 min.

If you use a conditioner before neutralizing you could add ACV or lemon juice to it to bring the pH down.

 

[baglady215]

Good info. I also use a neautralizing conditioner (Motions). I leave it on for about 15 minutes right after I rinse out the relaxer, then lather up a few times with the neutralizer shampoo. And I use neutralizer shampoo with the next wash, just to be sure.

 

[gn1g]

OK I may be overstating myself but I just feel so strongly about this that I have to share my personal experience.

I just recently, after over a year as a LHCF member, finally did a successful self perm.

About 7 months ago I was researching perms and discovered some info on neutralizing. Long story short, about 90% of us (myself included)


do not properly neutralize!!!!!

OK if you still do not realize the gravity of that statement consider this:


When we apply perm i.e. relaxer it is not just being applied to the hair and thats it.
The relaxer breaks down the bonds that make our hair curl blah blah blah.... but those bonds are within the hair shaft (cortex). Not the surface (cuticle). so when we neutralize what do we do? we add the neutralizing shampoo that comes with the kit. It probably has some color indicator to let you know that the perm is all out.


But oh! here is the clincher. you think that the perm is all gone when that lather turns white?? NO! The perm is still there even when you have washed the recommended 3 times until the lather turns the proper color.

Do you know why? Because when you lather rinse and repeat you are only neutralizing the perm on the hair shaft not the perm on the inner cortex. that means that there is perm still working on your hair after you have finished with your hair.

If i didn't fully realize or believe it, I do now because of personal experience.

One week ago, I permed my hair with Vitale I lathered up and rinsed three times until the lather was no longer pink but white. Instead of going about my business with conditioning, I decided to lather up again but this time I set a timer---for five minutes. I let that lather sit on my hair for the full five minutes.

Guess what color the lather was? PINK!
The lather was PINK! PINK as in there is still relaxer in your hair PINK!

KNow what color it was when I lathered up again?

WHITE!
I still had relaxer in my hair even after the lather turned white the first time!

The reason for this phenomenon is that neutralization is not instantaneous. It requires time (all you science nerds like myself know this).
How many of your stylists let it sit? Those who do, thats good. Those who don't y'all betta speak up.


Avant says he has 4 minutes,
but I say I've got at least 5 or all my hair gon fall out!!!!

bumping for newbies

 

[Arcadian]

I always used something like porosity control to bring down the ph before I start washing. I now use affirm sustenance for 5-7 minutes, then wash my hair with the neutralizing shampoo.

Once I couldn't get them bubbles to turn white no matter WHAT I did. I ended up putting the shampoo in my hair and letting it sit for 15 minutes...that did the trick. I'm now letting the shampoo sit in my head longer than the 5 minutes I used to do.

This is some very good info to know.

-A

Glad that someone brought this back to the top! Last relaxer I rinsed the relaxer then used a acv rinse before even washing the relaxer out, did this ever make a difference!!!

Seriously though, phyto is some hard stuff to rinse out!

Using the acv method only 1 washing actually does it but I did 2 just to be on the safe side.

The mix I used was something like 4-5 tablespoons of ACV to a cup of water. I poured it on after thoroughly rinsing the relaxer and let it sit 1-2 minutes before shampooing.


That did cut the need for using any sustenance or PC (though I did use some at the end anyway)

I guess the next relaxer I do which should be in May-June I'll do this method again...it really cut down my sink time!

-A

 

[e$h]

Thanks for bumping this girl! I know I poo'd with neutralizing poo like 4 times but I don't remember if I let it actually sit for 5 minutes . But then again, I don't remember what I ate for lunch yesterday either

 

[Keen]

Rabia, all the neutralizer does is bring down the pH of the hair so that the alkaline relaxer chemicals (usually pH 11-14) can no longer continue breaking it down. In fact, everything you apply after the relaxer will bring down the pH, including the water itself (pH 7). Conditioners applied after the relaxer and before the neutralizer also have "neutralizing" effects because their pH's are much lower than whatever the relaxer was-- usually between 4 and 6, which is also the normal pH of hair. But from what I've read, using something in this range will only really bring the pH down from 11-14 to about 6 or 7 which is still higher than the ideal- which is why neutalizing poo is still needed to follow up. Neutralizing poos (pH 3-5) bring it down even more to ensure that alkaline relaxer is completely halted and the hair is totally normalized.

Yep this is true. Basically leaving the conditioner on your hair for at least 10 minutes will have the same affect as using neutralizing shampoo. That's why I always deep condition after a relaxer in addition to using neutralizing shampoo.

 

[20perlz]

Wow! Am I glad I read this one! I am a newbie and I am learning so much. I self permed my hair the ENTIRE time I was in college and I thought the nuetralizing shampoo was just included with the box. I DID use it but I surely didnt rinse two-three times or let it sit. Okay. Is there any wonder I kept my hair short for so long!!!!!!!

 

[Radianthealth]

this could be why I have had so much breakage in the crown area. I will definitely pay close attention to neutralizing in the future.