The Never-ending Debate: Cain's Wife...

[GodMadeMePretty]

To answer this question one must first believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. I don't believe that everything is to be interpreted literally - I believe in the symbolical way of interpreting things. Maybe Adam and Eve are two symbols for the first people and their children are symbols for what they created?

LOL! It took me a minute before I realized what you were saying. It's like one of my Christian friends was talking about "aliens" and us having this superiority complex to think that we're the only humans that God created in the whole universe.

I hear what you're saying. But I do believe that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of all who occupy this earth today.

Back to the other topic: After all this haggling over who Cain married, the bottom line is that everybody was wiped out in the flood except Noah and his 3 sons and their wives. So, now can we move on to who their children married? Are marrying cousins somehow more palatable than marrying sisters and brothers even though the initial people, Adam and Eve, are the ancestors of them too?

 

[Isis]

For those that wonder about the extremely LONG age of life, there's actually scientific evidence of how humans were able to live that long. VERY interesting stuff.
Where can you find this information?

I've learned that the firmament, the cloud cover which covered this entire planet at that time, provided even, temperate weather throughout the year, probably tropical-like. It kept moisture in and protected humans from direct ultraviolet rays from the sun. The thymus glands were much larger that they are now, which is in part responsible for aging. The water from the Flood came from the firmament and since then, the lifespan of humans began to decrease.

 

[Sweet C]

Hmm...that is a good question. I guess if you are continuing with the theory of purity of genealogy and less suspectiblity of diseases, then yes your cousin would be a bit better than your sibling. However Abraham married his sister, though she was his half sister (Gen 20:12), but this is later denounced in the Law (Lev 18:9). Marrying cousins seems to be a bit better to me since this does in occur in the OT after the law was established (Law-Lev 18 ;Example-Nu 36:11).

Now this brings me to another question: Lot's daughters (Genesis 19). They had sexual relations with their father and had 2 sons by him which were the originators of the Moabites and the Ammonites. Now here is the question. We know that marriage occured between siblings and cousins in the OT before the law was established which forbids sexual relations with close relatives. Now in the case of Lot's daughters, were they in error since their was no written law established at that time?

 

[BklynHeart]

To answer this question one must first believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. I don't believe that everything is to be interpreted literally - I believe in the symbolical way of interpreting things. Maybe Adam and Eve are two symbols for the first people and their children are symbols for what they created?

Good point!

 

[AnnDriena_]

Hmm...that is a good question. I guess if you are continuing with the theory of purity of genealogy and less suspectiblity of diseases, then yes your cousin would be a bit better than your sibling. However Abraham married his sister, though she was his half sister (Gen 20:12), but this is later denounced in the Law (Lev 18:9). Marrying cousins seems to be a bit better to me since this does in occur in the OT after the law was established (Law-Lev 18 ;Example-Nu 36:11).

Now this brings me to another question: Lot's daughters (Genesis 19). They had sexual relations with their father and had 2 sons by him which were the originators of the Moabites and the Ammonites. Now here is the question. We know that marriage occured between siblings and cousins in the OT before the law was established which forbids sexual relations with close relatives. Now in the case of Lot's daughters, were they in error since their was no written law established at that time?

people back then had supernatural signs and wonders from God all the time so they had his power right in their faces and Lots daughters should've gone to GOD but they took matters in their own hands.Law or not they were just nasty .

 

[RushGirl]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He also created the moon and the stars—all living things-including man. Man was alone and needed companionship, so God created woman. He called the man Adam, and the man called woman Eve. These creations lived upon the face of the earth and walked with God in the quiet of the day. The man, Adam, knew his wife, Eve, and Eve conceived and gave birth to twins, Cain and Abel. Cain took his brother's life, went off to a far land, and took a wife.(Genesis 4:17). Many believe in the creation story, yet, many are puzzled by the creation story. If, in the beginning, God created two people and these two people had two children, where did Cain's wife come from?

And..if she was his sister, why was she in a far land?? Why wasn't she already living with the family ???

Your thoughts?

okay. I have a question.. I'm not religious AT ALL!!!!!...but isn't the Adam & Eve story in the Old Testament.. if so, the Old Testament is a story..it's not real... I had to take religion in college..it was a requirement..and the Old Testament is a story..in fact I know quite a few people who have been told the same thing by Catholic Priests..

 

[JuJuBoo]

okay. I have a question.. I'm not religious AT ALL!!!!!...but isn't the Adam & Eve story in the Old Testament.. if so, the Old Testament is a story..it's not real... I had to take religion in college..it was a requirement..and the Old Testament is a story..in fact I know quite a few people who have been told the same thing by Catholic Priests..

The Old Testement isn't just a story. It's not a story at all. It's a historical document and has been used as a FACTUAL historical document. Accurate dates, geology, theology, and even geneology is drawn from the Old Testement on a daily basis by historians. In fact, it's one of the most, if not the most reliable historical document to date.

 

[mermaid]

EXACTLY! Second, there is talk in apocrypha that Adam had a first wife named Lilith and she was sent away because she would not submit. *hence, Lilith Fair* She may have conceived a child w/ Adam before her banishment.

That was my thoughts always on the subject- Lilith was of the Jinn, I believe. (The jinn are NOT fallen angels. They were created from a smokeless flame of fire. The first recorded jinn to be disobedient is Iblis. Disbelieving, disobedient jinn and humans are known as shayateen (satans). - Quote from the Quran and Sunnah.

 

[JuJuBoo]

I've learned that the firmament, the cloud cover which covered this entire planet at that time, provided even, temperate weather throughout the year, probably tropical-like. It kept moisture in and protected humans from direct ultraviolet rays from the sun. The thymus glands were much larger that they are now, which is in part responsible for aging. The water from the Flood came from the firmament and since then, the lifespan of humans began to decrease.

oy...Thank you Isis. I'm too slow to respond.


yes this is what I'm referring to. This might be a long post. Okay...

2 Peter 3:5-7*(New International Version)

5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
------


The Bible says that the earth was formed "out" of water, which could be many things. Some think (and there's evidence for) there being some kind of layer of water or mist that surrounded the earth when God created it. This layer of water would have caused a green house effect. (Think of an EXTREME tropical environment, and that's the green house effect.) Basically, in such conditions, the amount of oxogen in the air would be TWICE of that today. So not only would this cause plants and animals to be MUCH BIGGER, but it would block ultra violet rays (causing things to age a WHOLE lot slower.)

In these conditions man would have been able to run MILES without getting winded...yes crazy, and since the sun was blocked and the air was oxegen saturated, healing time would be dramatically sped up. With these conditions it would be easy for man to live HUNDREDS of years old, and other organisms as well. Some think that dinosaurs are simply lizards that lived to be 900 years old.

So what's happened to the firmament? Well...it fell when God judged the earth with the Flood.

Okay....so the firmament fell during the Flood, but that couldn't have POSSIBLY flooded the ENTIRE earth....


Genesis 1:2*(New International Version)

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

Psalm 136:5-6
"who by his understanding made the heavens,

His love endures forever.

who spread out the earth upon the waters,

His love endures forever.

Genesis 7:11-12

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

The Bible also talks about the earth being spread upon the waters, or the actuall crust being set on water.

There's geologic evidence of there being big holds of water underneath the earth's crust thousands of years ago. It's not there anymore because during the flood, the "springs of the great deep burst" open. We realize that it could not have JUST rained in order to flood the entire earth, so this makes sense. Many believe the fault lines that lay on our ocean floors is where the surface cracked open and the "springs of the deep" bursts open, flooding the earth. It's a lot more probable than the plate techtonics theory. (Even TODAY when drilling for oil, it's been known to come across WATER, and lot's of it, deep into the earth's crust.)

A lot of people ask why God chose a flood to destroy the earth....Easy...It's leaves EVIDENCE: Fossils, erosion, the Grand Canyon, caverns...While evolutions look at that and say that millions of years created it...many look at it, and say a great flood created it in a matter of days.....If not hours.


Anyway, I'll continue later. I'm getting tired. Or questions, it's easier to cover that way...

 

[RushGirl]

The Old Testement isn't just a story. It's not a story at all. It's a historical document and has been used as a FACTUAL historical document. Accurate dates, geology, theology, and even geneology is drawn from the Old Testement on a daily basis by historians. In fact, it's one of the most, if not the most reliable historical document to date.

That's not was I was told and many others.. in fact, my husband even had a priest for a teacher when he was in high school and the priest's exact words were that the Old Testament was "bull#hit".. and this was a priest who later went to Rome for some kind of important religious thing..

If that is suppose to be the most reliable historical document to date.. does it mention anything about Big Bang or Evolution or life on other planets?

 

[fine_beauty]

LOL! It took me a minute before I realized what you were saying. It's like one of my Christian friends was talking about "aliens" and us having this superiority complex to think that we're the only humans that God created in the whole universe.

I hear what you're saying. But I do believe that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of all who occupy this earth today.

Back to the other topic: After all this haggling over who Cain married, the bottom line is that everybody was wiped out in the flood except Noah and his 3 sons and their wives. So, now can we move on to who their children married? Are marrying cousins somehow more palatable than marrying sisters and brothers even though the initial people, Adam and Eve, are the ancestors of them too?

The exact reason, Mathew decided to emphasize the geneology of Jesus. If we dispute or disbelieve the one man, one woman creation then there is or was no need for the incarnation, passion, death and resurrection of Christ. He had to come to fulfil God's promise " I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel." Gen 3:15
Also see Rev 12:5 with emphasis on 17 "Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus."

I'm no theologist but I believe that the Word of God is true and if there are any inconsistencies, they are due to our interpretations, remember that we are dealing with translations from various languages. Those who speak the language of those times are actually the chaldeans of Iraq (you can find info about them online by searching for the chaldean church) and Jesus is the poor greek translation of the aramaic word, Yeshua.

The bottom line is that each man strive to keep the faith till anytime the master returns. All these understandings will not in my opinion affect who makes it to the throne of heaven or who doesn't.

 

[Armyqt]

oy...Thank you Isis. I'm too slow to respond.


yes this is what I'm referring to. This might be a long post. Okay...

2 Peter 3:5-7*(New International Version)

5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
------


The Bible says that the earth was formed "out" of water, which could be many things. Some think (and there's evidence for) there being some kind of layer of water or mist that surrounded the earth when God created it. This layer of water would have caused a green house effect. (Think of an EXTREME tropical environment, and that's the green house effect.) Basically, in such conditions, the amount of oxogen in the air would be TWICE of that today. So not only would this cause plants and animals to be MUCH BIGGER, but it would block ultra violet rays (causing things to age a WHOLE lot slower.)

In these conditions man would have been able to run MILES without getting winded...yes crazy, and since the sun was blocked and the air was oxegen saturated, healing time would be dramatically sped up. With these conditions it would be easy for man to live HUNDREDS of years old, and other organisms as well. Some think that dinosaurs are simply lizards that lived to be 900 years old.

So what's happened to the firmament? Well...it fell when God judged the earth with the Flood.

Okay....so the firmament fell during the Flood, but that couldn't have POSSIBLY flooded the ENTIRE earth....


Genesis 1:2*(New International Version)

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

Psalm 136:5-6
"who by his understanding made the heavens,

His love endures forever.

who spread out the earth upon the waters,

His love endures forever.

Genesis 7:11-12

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

The Bible also talks about the earth being spread upon the waters, or the actuall crust being set on water.

There's geologic evidence of there being big holds of water underneath the earth's crust thousands of years ago. It's not there anymore because during the flood, the "springs of the great deep burst" open. We realize that it could not have JUST rained in order to flood the entire earth, so this makes sense. Many believe the fault lines that lay on our ocean floors is where the surface cracked open and the "springs of the deep" bursts open, flooding the earth. It's a lot more probable than the plate techtonics theory. (Even TODAY when drilling for oil, it's been known to come across WATER, and lot's of it, deep into the earth's crust.)

A lot of people ask why God chose a flood to destroy the earth....Easy...It's leaves EVIDENCE: Fossils, erosion, the Grand Canyon, caverns...While evolutions look at that and say that millions of years created it...many look at it, and say a great flood created it in a matter of days.....If not hours.


Anyway, I'll continue later. I'm getting tired. Or questions, it's easier to cover that way...

WOW!! What a great post. This whole thread is very interesting.

 

[Blossssom]

Third, the Bible is full of unsubstantiated myths.[/QUOTE]

LOL!

That's my guess too!

 

[Blossssom]

I've seen, read and heard various explanations like this one too. I've had discussions about this in church and incest seems like a plausible answer. Some Christian religions do not accept this theory of incest though. I've studied much on ancient history and there are many other theories.

Whether they accept it or not, incest was almost commonplace in the Bible.

What about the old guy who had sex with his daughters while drunk?

And what about Ammon, a son of King David, raping his own sister?

 

[JuJuBoo]

If that is suppose to be the most reliable historical document to date.. does it mention anything about Big Bang or Evolution or life on other planets?

no, the Bible says NOTHING about the Big Bang, Evolution, or aliens. Hence, why I believe all of that is 100% bogus. There's a WHOLE lot more evidence of a Creator, than no creator and every living organism (and non living ...ridiculous) evolving from one source.

It's like I said before. Some look at living things and say "Wow...it's so simular...Must be a common ancestor." I, and others, look at it and say "Wow...it's brilliant...simular design....There must be a common CREATOR."

 

[JuJuBoo]

And what about Ammon, a son of King David, raping his own sister?

Well THAT was wrong!

 

[Renovating]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He also created the moon and the stars—all living things-including man. Man was alone and needed companionship, so God created woman. He called the man Adam, and the man called woman Eve. These creations lived upon the face of the earth and walked with God in the quiet of the day. The man, Adam, knew his wife, Eve, and Eve conceived and gave birth to twins, Cain and Abel. Cain took his brother's life, went off to a far land, and took a wife.(Genesis 4:17). Many believe in the creation story, yet, many are puzzled by the creation story. If, in the beginning, God created two people and these two people had two children, where did Cain's wife come from?

And..if she was his sister, why was she in a far land?? Why wasn't she already living with the family ???

Your thoughts?

Wow!! I honestly thought that I was the only one that said,"Wait a minute! Where did this woman come from?!" when I read the above passage. My family and friends always say only I ask these kind of questions. Not true, I see.

 

[jwhitley6]

We all look at the Bible now and see the laws that God gave to Moses and automatically, Genesis' account of Cain and his wife and who she had to be starts to look incredibly horrible to us. But, until God said it was wrong, it wasn't wrong.

Like someone said earlier, the blood line was pure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Cain marrying his sister. As a matter of fact, Abel and Seth and the others had to marry someone too. Who did they marry? Again, the blood line was pure. Once the earth was populated, then and only then, was it unnecessary for close relatives to marry. Everybody harps on Cain marrying his sister, but the fact remains that most likely, the sisters and brothers married each other. How else was the earth going to be populated?

I don't find it to be unnatural when you look at God's purpose and plan. When we look at things with our fallible, imperfect human understanding, we will always fall short and focus on something that is really unimportant.

OT: Cain and Abel were NOT twins as I saw one poster comment. Not that it matters, except for accuracy's sake.

The bolded presents an interesting question. What other behaviors were once ok that God later said was wrong? Or, what things did God once say were wrong (abominations, etc) that are no longer considered wrong?? Has God "spoken" since the bible days?? Some say we are no longer "under the law", but God is also said to be "the same yesterday, today and forever more". Hmmmm...maybe this should be a spinoff.

 

[Renovating]

The bolded presents an interesting question. What other behaviors were once ok that God later said was wrong? Or, what things did God once say were wrong (abominations, etc) that are no longer considered wrong?? Has God "spoken" since the bible days?? Some say we are no longer "under the law", but God is also said to be "the same yesterday, today and forever more". Hmmmm...maybe this should be a spinoff.

Good questions. That's a lot to think about. erplexed

 

[moonglowdiva]

This is a very interesting topic. I think one could best find answers to they question they seek if they would read the Book of Jubilees and The Book of Enoch. These book are not apart of the Bible but the Bible does give reference to the book of Enoch in Jude. Now having said that I know the Book of Enoch is a very powerful book and frightening. The Book of Jubilees is not frightening but it does fill in some missing parts. Read it for your self and see it aligns to the Word of God.

 

[discobiscuits]

Bumping in light of the recent thread on Cain's wife. ★

 

[Poohbear]

Adam and Eve were just the FIRST human beings created, maybe not the ONLY. I think God created other human beings too after them, but I'm not for sure since the Bible doesn't give account to it.

 

[Poohbear]

We all look at the Bible now and see the laws that God gave to Moses and automatically, Genesis' account of Cain and his wife and who she had to be starts to look incredibly horrible to us. But, until God said it was wrong, it wasn't wrong.

Like someone said earlier, the blood line was pure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Cain marrying his sister. As a matter of fact, Abel and Seth and the others had to marry someone too. Who did they marry? Again, the blood line was pure. Once the earth was populated, then and only then, was it unnecessary for close relatives to marry. Everybody harps on Cain marrying his sister, but the fact remains that most likely, the sisters and brothers married each other. How else was the earth going to be populated?

I don't find it to be unnatural when you look at God's purpose and plan. When we look at things with our fallible, imperfect human understanding, we will always fall short and focus on something that is really unimportant.

OT: Cain and Abel were NOT twins as I saw one poster comment. Not that it matters, except for accuracy's sake.

How so? After the Fall of Man, Adam and Eve were no longer perfect. After they sinned in the Garden of Eden, they were no longer pure.

 

[discobiscuits]

How so? After the Fall of Man, Adam and Eve were no longer perfect. After they sinned in the Garden of Eden, they were no longer pure.

and sin reproduces after its own kind so....