The Official Catholic Thread

Discussion in 'Christian Fellowship' started by Galadriel, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Honey Bee

    Honey Bee Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for being so gracious. I dint want my heathen vibes to contaminate y'all lol so I lurk over here but never post. But Catholicism is of particular interest to me.

    Anyway, thanks for looking it up for me. I didn't know how to search the whole continent. :lol: So let me ask you, does the Church generally allow abortion in cases of rape? Or was this a one time thing?
     
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  2. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    No, not at all. This was prevention of pregnancy. Abortion is after conception and the Church maintains that all life is sacred in all its forms, from zygote til natural death and every place in-between. As @Belle Du Jour maintained, it was an interview and not issued as an infallible statement on doctrine.

    As for heathen vibes contaminating, gurl, I'm Catholic. There are no heathen vibes that are going to destroy me. I don't believe in seeing a demon around every corner. That's bull lol. I know not everyone has had a good experience with where they are but I've been lucky. Usually, I stay far away from the religious fanatics.
     
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  3. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    Catching up on this, @Belle Du Jour someone was handing out condoms?
     
  4. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    Yes, in the OP is the article. And I betcha that he was doing so with the previous statements from Pope Francis and earlier from Pope Benedict XVI Emeritus. What I'm looking for is WHY he was doing it but that is my guess. We cannot take things into our own hands but I do understand the previous statements from our most recent Popes in light of the present epidemic. Wish we had a canon lawyer in our midst to elaborate on this. Hmmm, you know, I know of one...going to ask him and see what he says. If I can copy and paste the reply, I'll do so.
     
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  5. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    I'll do some research as well.
     
  6. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    My suspicion is this has something to do with the fact the Cardinal Burke is the spiritual sovereign of the order and Pope Francis is upset because Burke is one of the four bishops involved in the dubia regarding the ambiguity of Amoris Laetetia. Francis is, IMO, being petty. But I'm sure more will be coming out. Pray for Cardinal Burke who is being persecuted by several of his brother bishops for being orthodox!
     
  7. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    Thank you for expanding the discussion. This is a Wikipedia, granted, but that doesn't preclude any value...depends. Reading to understand. Note, this article is not finished:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoris_laetitia


    [Excerpt]
    Initial reactions
    Initial reactions highlighted several of the issues of contemporary morality and church practice that had proved contentious during the synods' presentations and discussions, surrounding access to communion, divorce, sexual mores, and pastoral practice.

    Since the release of Amoris laetitia, various media outlets reported what many were calling a potential change in Church teaching on the ability of remarried and civilly divorced to receive the Eucharist, to which they said Francis alluded in footnote no. 351,[12] which reads (with footnoted body text in italics):

    Because forms of conditioning and mitigating factors, it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God’s grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end.

    351. In certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments. Hence, “I want to remind priests that the confessional must not be a torture chamber, but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium [24 November 2013], 44: AAS 105 [2013], 1038). I would also point out that the Eucharist “is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak” (ibid., 47: 1039).[13]

    Reports addressed the apparent contradictions between this footnote and Pope John Paul II's apostolic exhortations Familiaris consortio and Reconciliatio et paenitentiae. When asked in a press conference how Francis' work related to Familiaris consortio, which states that remarried divorcees must live "as brother and sister" in order to take communion, Cardinal Schönborn said that the former builds on the earlier work: "there is no change, but there is development".[11] Some traditionalists, notably Kazhakstani Bishop Athanasius Schneider and British advocacy group Voice of the Family, have criticized Francis' exhortation. Voice of the Family has called on him to "recognise the grave errors in the recently published Apostolic Exhortation, Amoris Laetitia, in particular those sections which will lead to the desecration of the Holy Eucharist and to the harming of our children, and to withdraw the Apostolic Exhortation with immediate effect."[12] Edward N. Peters, a referendary of the Apostolic Signatura, wrote that Amoris laetitia "is not a legislative document, it contains no legislative or authentic interpretative language, and it does not discuss Canon 915." So, the canon was not changed: Catholics in irregular marriages should not receive Eucharist.[14][15]


    ____________________________
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  8. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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  9. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, the pope is refusing to clarify the questionable statements in AL. And several bishops ARE running with it and using it as an opportunity to push their liberal agenda. One Cardinal recently said the laity should determine whether they should receive. :nono: Some bishops are recognizing same sex "marriages" and giving these people access to the Sacrament. The real issue is people don't believe in the Real Presence or don't understand the reality of the Eucharist.
     
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  10. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    And that wasn't the intent of his document at all, as I see it. Those questionable bishops would always have been perched to strike anyway. What seems to be an initiative of some sort to come to even deeper understanding of mercy and the sacrament of penance is being dismissed and taken out of context from fear of positive change as well as being abused from those with evil ulterior motive against orthodoxy. But I think the pre-annulment days might have produced the same hysteria. Plenty think we should not grant them. I don't believe that we'll strike down sacramental marriage at all. Maybe there is some middle ground, who knows?
     
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  11. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    For information for those interested:


    http://www.stmaron.org/multimedia/

    A Conversation between Bishop Gregory Mansour, Bishop of the Eparchy of Saint Maron of Brooklyn and Father Boniface Hicks, OSB, a Benedictine monk from Saint Vincent Archabbey, in Latrobe, Penn. Bishop Gregory Mansour and Father Boniface discuss Amoris Laetitia.

    .
     
  12. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    Is it any coincidence that Pence is a defector from orthodoxy? He didn't even shake the Black man's nor his Vice President's hand at the inauguration. That was a public display of uncharitable arrogance...so unbecoming of a leader. He said he found the truth. You work your way up to orthodoxy, not backwards. For those who've never had it, they are fine in the truth that is presented to them. He had it and threw it away? Now it's evident that his high social club is a front for name-it-claim-it heresy.
     
  13. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    ............................
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  14. Farida

    Farida Well-Known Member

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    Do some Catholics worship idols? Yes.

    But there is a distinction for many. If I saw you look at a picture of a loved one; kiss it; get mad if someone touched it - I would not think you are actually in love with the picture, that you have a physical relationship with the picture. It is merely a representation of the person you love.

    If a Catholic or person kisses a rosary for what it represents...for loving God..not because the person believes the rosary IS God. That is not idolatry.

    But some people blur the lines and some cultures also infiltrate religion. The Catholics I saw in Kenya did not treat Mary the same way I see the Mexicans and Guadalupe...
     
  15. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    It would hard to know what's in someone's heart if you are another individual and thereby, it's difficult to judge whether someone in veneration is "worshiping" an image as a g-d.
     
  16. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    Placing this here: Catholicism is not worshiping Baal of Babylon, neither is she, the Church of Jesus, desecrating the Sabbath. Jesus, the Messiah, is the L-rd of the Sabbath.


    Matthew 12New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
    12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

    3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’a]">[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

    9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”

    11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

    13 Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

    God’s Chosen Servant
    15 Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. A large crowd followed him, and he healed all who were ill. 16 He warned them not to tell others about him. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

    18 “Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
    the one I love, in whom I delight;
    I will put my Spirit on him,
    and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
    19 He will not quarrel or cry out;
    no one will hear his voice in the streets.
    20 A bruised reed he will not break,
    and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
    till he has brought justice through to victory.
    21 In his name the nations will put their hope.”b]">[b]

    Jesus and Beelzebul
    22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

    24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

    25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    29 “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.

    30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

    33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    The Sign of Jonah
    38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

    39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.

    43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”

    Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
    46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

    48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
     
  17. kanozas

    kanozas pa' borinquen

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    There is no coercion and a church would have to vote to make such changes, I'm sure (within their own ranks). Nobody has to be anything he doesn't want to be but in the event of unity with the RCC and some Protestant Churches, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will still be the one worshiped and in the blood of Jesus, the Messiah, in the Holy Spirit. This is open dialogue and there is no forced covering together but the call to unity is from Christ Himself. We were one, holy, catholic (the meaning is "universal faith" and in Christ) and apostolic (passed down by the Apostles). Approaching unity is not forced and there are many obstacles in the way as we all iron them out. Who knows, many things might transform from what we see today from all of us. But here is an address that I heard on the radio yesterday in his actual words on the matter. I pray that this is taken in the manner in which it is given, that being of "information" to explain this ecumenical opportunity and it is neither an attempt to proselytize that that, in itself, is sinful as it does not recognize nor respect the free will of people, neither does it uphold their human dignity:

    https://zenit.org/articles/popes-address-to-ecumenical-delegation-from-germany/
    Pope’s Address to Ecumenical Delegation From Germany


    “Despite these questions that are still open, we must not be resigned but rather concentrate on the next step possible”

    February 6, 2017ZENIT StaffPapal Texts
    [​IMG]
    Pope in Paul VI Hall: Copyright Photo.Va - Archives L'Osservatore Romano)

    At 10 o’clock this morning, Pope Francis received in audience an Ecumenical delegation of the Evangelical Church of Germany. Here is a translation of the Pope’s address to those taking part in the meeting.

    * * *

    Dear brothers and sisters,

    I am pleased to welcome you and I greet you warmly. I thank the regional Bishop Bedford-Strohm for his kind words – ein Mann mit Feuer im Herzen – and I am happy for Cardinal Marx’s presence: that the President of the German Episcopal Conference accompanies the delegation of the Evangelical Church in Germany is fruit of a long-standing collaboration and an expression of a matured ecumenical relation over the years. I hope you will go ahead on this blessed path of fraternal communion, proceeding with courage and determination towards an ever fuller unity. We have the same Baptism: we must walk together, tirelessly!

    It is significant that, on the occasion of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, Evangelical and Catholic Christians take up the occasion, of the common commemoration of historical events of the past, to put Christ again at the center of their relations. In fact, “the question of God,” on “how there can be a merciful God” was the “profound passion, the mainspring of Luther’s life and his entire journey” (cf. Benedict XVI, Meeting with the Representatives of the Evangelical Church in Germany, September 23, 2011). What animated and made the Reformers anxious was, at bottom, to point out the way to Christ. It is what must be at heart for us also today, after having undertaken again, thanks be to God, a common path. This year of commemoration offers us the opportunity to take a further step forward, looking at the past without rancor, but according to Christ and in communion with Him, to propose again to the men and women of our time the radical novelty of Jesus, God’s limitless mercy: precisely what the Reformers at their time wished to stimulate. The fact that their call to renewal sparked developments that led to divisions among Christians was certainly tragic. Believers no longer felt themselves brothers and sisters in the faith, but adversaries and competitors: for too long they have fueled hostility and were avid in fights, fomented by political and power interests, sometimes without having the least scruples in using violence against one another, brothers against brothers. Today, instead, we thank God because finally, “we have put down all that is a burden,” and “we run”, fraternally, “with perseverance on the course that is before us, keeping our gaze fixed on Jesus” (Hebrews 12:1-2).

    I am grateful to you because, with this gaze you have the intention of approaching together, with humility and frankness, a past that grieves us, and of sharing soon an important gesture of penance and reconciliation: an ecumenical function entitled “To Heal the Memory — To Witness Jesus Christ.” Catholics and Evangelicals in Germany, can thus respond in prayer to the strong call that you perceive together in the country of origin of the Reformation: to purify the memory in God to be renewed interiorly and sent by the Spirit to take Jesus to the men of today. With this sign and with other ecumenical initiatives planned this year – such as the joint pilgrimage to the Holy Land, the joint Biblical congress to present together the new translations of the Bible and the Ecumenical Day dedicated to the social responsibility of Christians – you have in mind to give a concrete configuration to the “Feast of Christ” that, on the occasion of the commemoration of the Reformation, you intend to celebrate together. May the rediscovery of the common source of faith, the healing of the memory in prayer and in charity, and concrete collaboration in spreading the Gospel and serving brothers be impulses to proceed still more speedily on the way.

    It is the reality of the one Baptism that makes us brothers and sisters and in the common listening to the Spirit, we are able to appreciate, in a now reconciled diversity, the spiritual and theological gifts that we received from the Reformation. Last October 31 at Lund, I thanked the Lord for this and asked forgiveness for the past; for the future, I wish to confirm our call to witness the Gospel together and to continue on the path to full unity. Doing so together, the desire is also born to advance of new ways. Increasingly we learn to ask ourselves: can we share this initiative with our brothers and sisters in Christ? Can we undertake together another stretch of the way?

    The differences in questions of faith and morality that still exist, remain challenges on the path towards visible unity, for which our faithful long. Spouses that belong to different confessions feel the pain especially. We must commit ourselves wisely, with insistent prayer and all our strength, to overcome the still existing obstacles, intensifying the theological dialogue and reinforcing collaboration between us, especially in the service of those that suffer greatly and in the protection of the threatened creation. Jesus’ urgent call to unity (cf. John 17:21) comes to us, as well as the entire human family, in a period in which grave lacerations and new forms of exclusion and marginalization are being experienced. Because of this too, our responsibility is great. Great!

    In the hope that this meeting will ultimately enhance communion between us, I ask the Holy Spirit, architect and renewer of unity, to fortify us on our common way with the consolation that comes from God (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:4) and to indicate to us His prophetic and audacious ways. I invoke from my heart upon all of you and your communities God’s blessing and I ask you, please, to remember me in prayer. I thank you so much and would like to invite you now to pray the Our Father together.

    [Original text: Italian]
     
  18. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    I would be careful of accusing others of worshiping idols. (Actually most idols are not made by hands... ). I'm sure God sees the heart and understands that a person touching or kissing a statue does not think the actual statue is God. It merely raises the person's consciousness to Heaven. I bow my head when the crucifix passes by me in the procession. Clearly I'm not identifying the gold and wooden cross as my God but honoring Christ's ultimate sacrifice.
     
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  19. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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