The Official Catholic Thread

Discussion in 'Christian Fellowship' started by Galadriel, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. kanozas

    kanozas se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón

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    Catholic ladies, what on earth???!!! Well, we already know. I just fear this Pope is going to be the one taken out and murdered for standing for the true faith.

    Papa Francis, please clean house. He is surrounded by wolves!!! SMH.

    http://www.catholic.org/news/international/europe/story.php?id=75429
    SCANDAL: Vatican police raid cardinal's apartment to stop drug fueled gay party


    By Marshall Connolly (CALIFORNIA NETWORK)
    7/6/2017 (1 day ago)
    Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

    Pope Francis said to be infuriated by report.
    Scandal has come to the Vatican once again as Vatican police announce a raid on a high official's apartment where intoxicated men were found having sex and consuming illegal drugs. The apartment is owned by Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, who is one of the Pope's closest advisors.



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    Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio owns the apartment where his secretary lives and hosted a gay orgy.

    Highlights
    By Marshall Connolly (CALIFORNIA NETWORK)
    Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)
    7/6/2017 (1 day ago)

    Published in Europe

    Keywords: Vatican, cardinal, gay, orgy, scandal, police, drugs, raid


    LOS ANGELES, CA (California Network) -- Vatican police have raided a cardinal's apartment in Rome, arresting men they say were involved in a gay orgy and doing drugs. The raid took place in late June. Pope Francis is reportedly furious at the news as he has worked hard to clean up the Vatican. The cardinal who owns the apartment is Francesco Coccopalmerio, who is president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. The council is responsible for guiding the Church in its approach to sex abuse cases.

    Cardinal Coccopalmerio was not at the apartment at the time of the raid, and he is not a suspect in any crime. The apartment is occupied by his secretary. The secretary was present and among those arrested. According to reports, the Cardinal previously recommended his secretary for promotion to bishop. This recommendation calls into question the cardinal's discernment and possibly character. Pope Francis will now be forced to reassess the Cardinal's status as a close advisor.




    The disgraced secretary has been released from custody for the time being, and has been sent to a monastery for retreat. This is the Vatican equivalent of arrest, although it is much more benevolent than what the police offer.
    It is unclear who were the other men involved in the orgy, and if they too are posted to the Vatican of if they were visitors from outside.

    Vatican police became suspicious after neighbors reported strange noises and people coming and going from the apartment. The visitors showed signs of abnormal behavior, raising concerns which prompted police to investigate.

    The Vatican has long been criticized for alleged corruption at the highest levels of power. Cardinal Pell, the Pope's chief financial advisor took a leave of absence last week to deal with allegations of abuse in Australia. Now, another advisor must contend with accusations that his secretary engaged in promiscuous, same-sex activity and drugs. What does this say about the judgement of Cardinal Coccopalmerio? What does it say about Pope Francis, the Vatican and the Church as a whole?

    The Church has always faced dangers from less than holy men. Some of those dangerous men have risen to the rank of pontiff. Despite the best efforts of kings, emperors, heretics, and even her own clergy, the Church has survived, preaching with success the same message for two thousand years.

    Pope Francis has work he must do to complete his mission of cleaning up the Vatican. Arrests such as these can help by rooting out the immoral and corrupt officials there. We should also remember Christ's promise, the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church.
     
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  2. kanozas

    kanozas se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón

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    Cleaning out the corners, one corner at a time...

    https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/07...fficials-childrens-hospital-financial-crimes/

    Vatican indicts two ex-officials of children’s hospital for financial crimes
    [​IMG]
    Giuseppe Profiti, former president of a foundation overseeing the papally-sponsored pediatric hospital Bambino Gesu. (Credit: Stock image.)

    Two former officials of the papally-sponsored pediatric hospital Bambino Gesù have been charged by Vatican prosecutors with misappropriation of funds over an outlay of almost $500,000 to remodel a Vatican apartment of Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, former Secretary of State under Pope Benedict XVI, with the contract going to a company owned by a Bertone friend. Bertone himself does not face any charges.


    In what may be seen as a step forward for Pope Francis’s press for financial reform, Vatican prosecutors on Thursday announced indictments under its criminal law against two former officials of the papally-sponsored pediatric hospital Bambino Gesù for misappropriation of funds.

    The two Italian laymen charged, Giuseppe Profiti and Massimo Spina, are both former members of a foundation that oversees the famed children’s hospital, located a stone’s throw away from the Vatican and immediately adjacent to the Pontifical North American College, the residence for American seminarians in Rome. Profiti was the president of the foundation, Spina its treasurer.

    According to the information released Thursday by the Holy See Press Office, Profiti and Spina are charged with illicitly using funds meant for Bambino Gesù, and thus ultimately meant for the care of sick children, to profit a Rome-based construction company called Castelli Re, run at the time by another Italian financier named Gianantonio Bandera.

    The alleged misappropriation took place in 2014, meaning the charge is effectively three years old.

    Specifically, the indictment states that close to $500,000 of the foundation’s money was paid to Bandera’s company to perform upgrades on a Vatican apartment belonging to Italian Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the former Secretary of State under emeritus Pope Benedict XVI and a long-standing friend of Bandera.

    There’s no suggestion in the indictment, however, of charges against Bertone himself, now 82.

    The Vatican also announced Thursday that the head of its criminal tribunal has empaneled a three-judge body to hear the case against Profiti and Spina, with its first hearing set for July 18 at 10:00 a.m. Rome time - and, if they fail to appear, the statement said both men will be tried in absentia. Their lawyers had been given until July 11 to submit defense materials to the court.

    Because both Profiti and Spina are Italian citizens and not clergy, they could dispute the Vatican court’s jurisdiction. In July 2016, a similar court in the “Vatileaks 2.0” scandal acquitted two lay Italian journalists for lack of jurisdiction, although it did convict Italian lay woman Francesca Chaouqui, who had been a member of a papal advisory body on financial reform and was accused of leaking confidential documents.

    This marks the first time the Vatican publicly has announced an indictment under new measures intended to fight financial money-laundering and financial crime, which began under Benedict XVI and have been strengthened under Francis.

    The need to enforce those laws was a key point in the last evaluation of the Vatican performed by Moneyval, the Council of Europe’s anti-money laundering agency, which is set to update that assessment later this year. Getting a clean bill of health from Moneyval is seen as key to the Vatican’s ability to be on “white lists” of global actors playing by the financial rules, thus avoiding frozen accounts, suspended transactions, and higher transaction fees for perceived risk.

    The details of the charges against Profiti and Spina were already well-known in Rome, as the expenditures on Bertone’s apartment have been public and the object of controversy for some time. In an interview last year, Profit defended the outlay, saying it was work that formed part of a “precise project of development.”

    In effect, Profiti said, Bambino Gesù had intended to launch a major capital campaign and needed the expanded space in Bertone’s apartment in order to host fundraising receptions. He argued that in the year 2013, such events hosted by Bertone had boosted donations to the hospital from 3 to 5 million Euro annually, and called the remodeling a “marketing” investment.

    “Not only was this a legitimate expense, but I’ll tell you, if I found myself in the same situation today, I’d make the same decision again,” Profiti said.

    In the end, Bandera’s company not only was paid almost $500,000 by the Bambino Gesù foundation for work on Bertone’s apartment, but also submitted another set of bills for almost $350,000, which were paid by Bertone directly.

    When the investigation that culminated in Thursday’s indictment was announced last year, Vatican Spokesman Greg Burke said Bertone himself was not facing review. Although Bertone has consistently denied any wrongdoing, he made a contribution of a little over $170,000 to Bambino Gesù after the publication of a book in late 2015 detailing the expenses for his residence.

    Recently, Bambino Gesù was the subject of a reporting series by the Associated Press charging that during Profiti’s tenure, children’s health was put at risk in the pursuit of financial gain. Those accusations were denied by Burke, who called them “false and unjust.”
     
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  3. Lucia

    Lucia Well-Known Member

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  4. Lucia

    Lucia Well-Known Member

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    :amen:
    to the bolded. But hes doing it, it's years of deep seeded corruption and sin, he's wrestling with both the physical and in the spiritual realm. He's got a big job to do you can't undo 50 years of corruption in 5 years it will take time but with God he can and will do this through him and others. That's why we need to pray for him and all clergy for the honest ones that they can resist temptation and stay on the narrow road, and for the dirty ones to come clean and rehabilitate under suspension or leave. Pope Francis is always asking us to pray for him and that's one of the many reasons why we should.

    Actually, I don't fear for him on that point because that's why God put him there. Every Pope has that danger as part of his office. It's like becoming President you're not necessarily going to be done in but it's a risk that's part of such an important office.
    God- That's the reason why he is where he is, he's the first Jesuit Pope that's saying a lot already, he's from the Americas (Ok South America ) again another first. He wasn't in Rome positioning for that spot, he wanted to be a missionary in Japan, China? (I don't remember)

    Of course all Popes are called by God but some are not fit, too corrupt, or to permissive, lack the strength/courage to do what God calls them to do in the office. We need this kind of Preist in the office of Pope someone who will be "a Jesuit" about some things and get stuff done, kick butt and take names in that order and IMO Pope Francis, is that guy.


    *Side note: I've noticed that some of the most bitter and staunch opposers of the RCC are former Catholics now Protestants or atheists they've got a rebellion, anger, some kind of strife or passive aggressive rebellious spirit ? on them that prevents them from being forgiving regarding the Church's problems do to the imperfections and outright crimes of some of the men who who are clergy.
    Because it's the person who falls short, not the Church, it's the person who is not up to the task or falls into temptation, not the Church. To me it seems like they've (bitter former Catholics) bundled up the person with the Church as one and not 2 separate entities that they are. The Preists serve the church, they are married to the church but like the wife of an unfaithful husband she can't force them to behave.
    Whereas sex scandals and all kinds of other muckery are going on in their churches (like polygamous Deacons, pedophilia, Pastors having what are basically a "harem" of women at his beck and call, no preaching against abortions and birth control, no preaching against pre marital sex, etc...) but they have no comment on it. But they will give you an earful cause you're Catholic can't you control your Preists? Just makes me wonder, what do you ladies think about that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  5. Lucia

    Lucia Well-Known Member

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    https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/examining-crisis/pope-calls-bishops-negligence-crime-important

    Pope calls bishops' negligence a crime: this is important
    When it comes to holding bishops and religious superiors responsible for the cover up of clergy sex abuse, Pope Francis' June 4 apostolic letter on ecclesial accountability is not only a distinct improvement over the proposal made a year ago to establish a tribunal to hold bishops accountable, it is possibly the most positive and hopeful signal to come out of the Vatican to date.

    Canon lawyer Kurt Martens -- among others -- told NCR, "Everyone seems to be excited about the new [aposotlic letter] but there is really no change." However, there is something breaking with this pronouncement -- the official recognition by the church's highest authority of hierarchical negligence in dealing with sex abuse by clerics. It is not only acknowledged but named as a crime.

    The apostolic letter, or motu proprio known by its Italian title, Come una madre amorevole ("As a loving mother"), has some remarkable positive points that deserve mention:

    • Negligence can be punished if it has hurt individuals and/or the community. It is vital that the disastrous impact on the Christian communities because of the bishops' actions or lack thereof be acknowledged for what it is.
    • The norms for removal do not demand that the pope have "moral certitude" of the culpability of the bishop. He can be removed or forced to resign for failure in the diligence required of him. This is a far cry from having to prove "grave moral culpability." These factors can go a long way in eliminating the possibility of lengthy litigation or protracted appeals which many feared would be the undoing of a tribunal process.
    • The U.S. bishops were criticized for not including superiors of religious communities under the Dallas Charter and Essential Norms. The pope plugged that hole in his Apostolic Letter by making it clear that major religious superiors, that is, provincials and superiors general, can also be subjected to this process.
    • Unilateral removal is now a distinct reality and distinguishes between removal and an "invited" resignation. Victims, survivors and others have rightly criticized this pope because, rather than removing several U.S. bishops who were blatantly guilty of dereliction of duty, he allowed them to resign or retire. Everyone knew what was really happening yet it served as an insult to the victims and others so gravely wounded by these prelates' intentional actions.
    Canon lawyers will no doubt bicker about the five articles of the process and create numerous relevant and irrelevant questions. They, as well as the persons who will be responsible for taking this letter from potency to act, would be much better served if they sat down and listened to as many of the survivors of sexual abuse as possible. This has been one of the most glaring intentional omissions by the clerical world since the entire sex abuse debacle was revealed more than 30 years ago.

    Many bishops have sat down and gone through perfunctory meetings with victims, all too often insisted upon by their attorneys, but very few have actually taken the time to listen to these men and women. After all, the whole 30-plus year period since clergy abuse was publicly revealed is fundamentally about the victims. Looking at the bishops' and popes' histories one would be hard pressed to see this since the deeply engrained clerical narcissism has made it nearly impossible for the ecclesiastical leadership to see the "problem" and the victims from any other perspective than their own.

    Critics of this letter and last year's tribunal plan claim that the pope already has the authority to remove bishops at will. This is true. He can remove a bishop or to force his resignation without any kind of process and without giving a reason. Bishops are freely appointed by the pope and just as freely removed. Canon 1389 of the Code refers to abuse of authority and negligence in office. The actions of scores of bishops and cardinals clearly fall within the parameters of this canon.

    What is so special about this latest development is the acknowledgement that the negligent and irresponsible actions of many bishops was not based on their ignorance about the nature of sex abuse or advice given by medical experts -- two of the many silly excuses offered -- but that their actions and inactions were willful and potentially criminal. This is a mind-blowing change from the past where every effort was made to protect and exonerate the bishops above every other consideration.

    This stands in stark contrast to Pope John Paul II who extended sympathy to bishops for the pain this crisis was causing them, a sentiment regretfully expressed by Pope Francis to the U.S. bishops when he visited here in 2015. His speech caused an uproar among victims and their supporters and prompted many to abandon any hope that Pope Francis would make a difference.

    The change in attitude is radical and had to have been inspired by a source other than the Vatican curia. That source has to have been, without a doubt, the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors. The commission has been insisting that accountability of bishops is a top priority. Calling bishops on the carpet for neglecting to act properly in the face of sexual abuse by clerics has not only been a top demand from victims and non-victims the world over but it has been a demand that has been actively stone-walled since the crisis first became publicly known over 30 years ago.

    Francis and his two predecessors, Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, have known in detail about hundreds of bishops who have fulfilled the criteria for removal as set forth in this apostolic letter. Evidence of abuse of the episcopal office or of negligence has come not only from direct reports or accusations of victims but also from testimony and other evidence presented in the thousands of civil and criminal trials and court processes that have taken place in several countries since the mid-1980s.

    The most prolific, detailed and credible sources of information of the bishops' dereliction of duty has come from grand jury investigations in the United States, governmental investigatory commissions in Ireland, and, most recently, the royal commission in Australia. The first sentence of the 2005 Philadelphia grand jury report said that "Cardinal [Anthony] Bevilacqua and Cardinal [John] Krol excused and enabled the abuse." The Ferns Commission, the first in Ireland, named Bishop Brendan Cumisky's negligence as the prime factor in the sexual violation of the many victims of the late Sean Fortune. In Australia, Cardinal George Pell's own recent testimony before the royal commission confirmed his direct role in the cover-up of abusers and mistreatment of victims.

    Is there precedent for papal action? John Paul II removed French Bishop Jacques Gaillot in 1995. His "crime" was being too pastoral. He reluctantly accepted the resignation of Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston in 2002 and tried to protect confirmed sexual abuser Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer, Archbishop of Vienna, Austria but he had no problem forcing the resignation Bishop Geoff Robinson of Sydney, Australia and Bishop Tom Gumbleton from Detroit, Michigan both of whom publicly supported the victims of abuse and criticized the Vatican's lack of action.

    Benedict sacked Australian Bishop William Morris for supposed "doctrinal" reasons, but his overall track record was different than John Paul's. In 2011 he laicized a Paraguayan bishop Fernando Lugo, former bishop of San Pedro) who had gotten a teenaged girl pregnant. He also laicized Emmanual Milengo, former archbishop of Lusaka, for an illicit marriage but also for affiliating himself with the Unification Church of Sun Myung Moon, known popularly as the Moonies. Benedict was the first pope to laicize a bishop, which had not been done for centuries, no matter what the bishop had done.

    Francis quickly laicized Gabina Miranda Melgarejo, an auxiliary bishop from the archdiocese of Ayacucho, Peru, when it became known that he had abused a young teenaged girl. He also laicized Jozef Wesolowski, former papal nuncio to the Dominican Republic, for child abuse. These were bishops who were abusers themselves. But what about the enablers? Francis forced the resignation of Bishop Gonzalo Galvan Castillo of Autlan, Mexico, for failing to report a priest who had sexually abused minors. These actions stand in stark contrast to John Paul's policies which were to protect bishop's at all costs.

    Victims advocacy groups, notably SNAP, have reacted to the apostolic letter with justifiable and well-grounded skepticism. We have heard countless promises that things will change. We have heard, ad nauseam, empty apologies for the pain suffered by victims. Processes and diocesan offices have been set up to respond to victims. The Vatican has issued other decrees in 2001 and 2010 whereby the legal processes have been changed to provide a better response to reports of sexual abuse by clerics. The overall impact has been minimal.

    A clear example of the deep-seated hypocrisy that remains is the opposition of U.S. bishops in several states to changes in state legislation that would be more favorable to victims of sexual assault. The archbishops of New York (Cardinal Timothy Dolan) and Philadelphia (Charles Chaput) are leading the other bishops in their respective ecclesiastical provinces in vicious battles to prevent any change that would benefit all sex abuse victims. They are expending unknown amounts of money on lobbyists to convince lawmakers to vote against any changes. They are using dishonest methods which include attacks on sympathetic lawmakers, flooding parishes with written documents that present blatantly dishonest and erroneous information about the possible effects of a change in the law. At the same time, these bishops are making public statements about how they support victims of sex abuse. The duplicity and dishonesty of these and other prelates is blatantly obvious to all. Yet there has been no Vatican intervention to tell them to cease and desist.

    NCR columnist Michael Sean Winters wrote "The document helps confront the last, critical piece of the puzzle in any effective strategy to confront the scourge of sex abuse: episcopal accountability." He is correct, but only to a limited degree. Thus far all the steps taken by bishops and popes have been administrative — promulgation of more protocols and processes. At first these were aimed exclusively at the clergy abusers but now the pope has set his sights on the bishops. That the papal sights should have been on the bishops since the problem surfaced goes without saying.

    However, the last critical piece is not administrative or judicial. It is deeply attitudinal. The most glaring and scandalous deficiency has been the almost complete lack of papal and episcopal leadership in the compassionate and pastoral care of the countless victims world-wide whose lives have been so deeply wounded not only by the sexual abuse itself but by the dishonest, uncaring and destructive manner with which victims have generally been treated by the official church.

    It will take more than papal pronouncements to bring about the changes in direction that are essential. It will take a fundamental change in attitude and this will not be evident as long as the hierarchy still believes that the church is a stratified society with the bishops on top and the vast majority of believers on the bottom, whose only duty, according to Pope Pius X, is to obey and docilely follow the bishops.

    Taking actions against bishops is crucial. Yet it is equally vital to look deeply into the nature of the church and the meaning of priesthood to uncover the causal factors for the disastrous way the institutional church and the hierarchy have consistently and systematically mishandled this nightmare. To do so would mean taking very great risks because not too deeply beneath the surface the bishops and the church's governmental system would have to deal with the toxic virus of clericalism. Pope Francis has clearly projected a fundamental attitudinal change with his remarks and actions that openly take on clericalism, a disease that has held the church captive for centuries.

    [Dominican Fr. Thomas P. Doyle is a canon lawyer and longtime advocate for victims abused by Catholic clerics. He is also co-author of the 2006 book Sex, Priests and Secret Codes: The Catholic Church's 2,000-Year Paper Trail of Sexual Abuse.]
     
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  6. Lucia

    Lucia Well-Known Member

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  7. Lucia

    Lucia Well-Known Member

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    They broadcast LIVE 24/7
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  8. Lucia

    Lucia Well-Known Member

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    "Let's get to work" -Fr Mike Shmitz
     
  9. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    We know Our Lady is like the Moon, who simply reflects the light of the Sun/her Son and brings Him into the world. According to St. Louis de Monfort, Christ will again come to the world through the Virgin:

    https://www.catholiccompany.com/getfed/2017-eclipse-liturgical-calendar/

    Upcoming eclipse on the eve of the Queenship of Mary/during the Fatima year is NOT a coincidence!
     
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  10. kanozas

    kanozas se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón

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    Beautiful!!! How incredible we are at this point in the world and August 21 is the grand eclipse. May these events harken all people to examine themselves and hope. I know other denominations don't often comprehend how we see salvation but, I am humbled when I hear a faithful priest say, "I hope and pray that, in the end of my life, IF I merit heaven..." That is a very humbled soul who realizes that G-d is He who decides EVERYTHING and that nothing should be taken for granted, not even salvation. Not to live in fear but under His Providence, with humility and hope.

    @Belle Du Jour , which site on Fatima do you prefer? Some of them are so anti-Pope Francis or Novus Ordo Mass and strike me as terribly partition, almost like SSPX.




     
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  11. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a conspiracy theorist LOL. Some of these wackos think the Vatican got rid of the real Lucia and the Lucia we saw was a fake Lucia. Some don't think the 3rd secret has been released. Some think there's more to the third secret. I think we know all we need to know and if there's more it will be revealed. I believe Russia was consecrated with the world consecration. I don't know everything about Fatima but that's what I believe.
     
  12. kanozas

    kanozas se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón

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    Yeahhh, seee, I was right to feel leary because reading some of it was pretty, I dunno. When was the world consecration? Was that under JPII? Some of those Fatima sites are no different than those who believe Revelations is literal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  13. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    Just watched a documentary on the Eucharist on Amazon prime. Didn't know Lola Falana converted to Catholicism and is a daily mass goer. :yep: God is good!

    Here's an old video of her giving her testimony: https://gloria.tv/video/y3Lsqa7dBSoB4or3zfeaET4Ub
     
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  14. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure off the top of my head.
     
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