We talking about Russia and Ukraine?

[MamaBear2012]

Because I need some insight. I'm terrible with history. I can't tell you the date of anything. I don't remember world wars, world leaders, none of it. But my minor in undergrad was history.

Anyway, what's the story? What do I need to know? I'm trying to get bits and pieces of information. I see Putin sent troops into Eastern Ukraine. Why isn't this considered an "invasion"? What are we looking for before we strike? Are we fighting? Or are we sanctioning? Help me out, y'all.

 

[PatDM'T]

Because I need some insight. I'm terrible with history. I can't tell you the date of anything. I don't remember world wars, world leaders, none of it. But my minor in undergrad was history.

Anyway, what's the story? What do I need to know? I'm trying to get bits and pieces of information. I see Putin sent troops into Eastern Ukraine. Why isn't this considered an "invasion"? What are we looking for before we strike? Are we fighting? Or are we sanctioning? Help me out, y'all.

Ever since Biden
took the wheel,
I kinda have been
living in Lalaland,
and so I am more
clueless than you.

So I will be
watching this
thread for insight.

A quick search
took me to these
two sources that
may shed some light.

Explained: What's behind the conflict in eastern Ukraine?

Ukraine and the West have become worried about the Russian troops' concentration and have urged Moscow to pull them back. Russia has argued that it's free to deploy its forces on its territory and sternly warned the government in Kyiv against using force to reclaim control of the rebel-held...

m.economictimes.com

 

[MamaBear2012]

Thanks @PatDM'T! I have no real context on any of this, so I can't even really filter through things and say, "Nah, this part sounds right, but that doesn't." And I'm trying to figure out what will be the match that lights the fuse that plunges us into WW3. Or is Putin bluffing? I just have no clue.

I'm going to check out what you posted. Thanks!!

 

[Black Ambrosia]

I'm always really impressed when people explain current events with historical context. I'd like to be able to do that but I never have the interest until something happens like now.

I think Putin wants to put together the old USSR but idk why other than it being a power grab. I'm sure there's more to it. What I do know is Biden is reluctant to go to war over Ukraine because Ukraine isn't part of NATO. NATO members look out for each other and Ukraine isn't part of the club. They want to be but Putin has been fighting it because Ukraine would have the support of the US military if Putin invaded and he's been wanting to do that since Russia took over Crimea. Also, NATO membership requires a unanimous vote of member nations and there are a few that don't want Ukraine to join because they don't want to be forced to get involved in a fight against Russia. Not getting involved has serious repercussions for the Ukrainian people who we've previously supported with weapons and resources. If we don't intervene Russia will take over and a lot of people will be killed.

 

[MamaBear2012]

I'm always really impressed when people explain current events with historical context. I'd like to be able to do that but I never have the interest until something happens like now.

I think Putin wants to put together the old USSR but idk why other than it being a power grab. I'm sure there's more to it. What I do know is Biden is reluctant to go to war over Ukraine because Ukraine isn't part of NATO. NATO members look out for each other and Ukraine isn't part of the club. They want to be but Putin has been fighting it because Ukraine would have the support of the US military if Putin invaded and he's been wanting to do that since Russia took over Crimea. Also, NATO membership requires a unanimous vote of member nations and there are a few that don't want Ukraine to join because they don't want to be forced to get involved in a fight against Russia. Not getting involved has serious repercussions for the Ukrainian people who we've previously supported with weapons and resources. If we don't intervene Russia will take over and a lot of people will be killed.

Oooh, thanks for this. I didn't know they weren't a part of NATO, but that makes sense.

I really have been trying to understand why Putin wants Ukraine. But you're right, it probably is a power grab. I've been thinking this is just a way to pull the U.S. into a war. We're already so divided. Our people are struggling. We manufacture nothing in this country. And I'm nervous about Russia's friendliness with China. Are they working together to bring us down? But I really don't understand the whole picture.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I've followed some. What I remember:

Annexation of the Crimea (Used to be part of Russia) from Ukraine in 2016. No fight put up.
The last PM or President of Ukraine boosted the Military, so they CAN really put up a fight.
The above CANNOT STAND the new President of Ukraine...says he is a weak former actor/comedian who is Trump 2.0Ukraine version---when he was interviewed by NPR several weeks ago.
Biden was waiting for the war to start, but Putin is such a strategist yet thug, he and the west don't even realise--the WAR BEEN STARTED.
Now as of today, they want to throw sanctions, but too little too late.

Putin knew he had people in place beholden to him who would basically HAND Ukraine over which is happening now.
The people in Ukraine are kinda worried, but kinda ho-hum because the propaganda was spinning that the WEST was overexaggerating. Many Ukraine scholars are angry because there ARE factors that believe Ukraine's independence was wrong in the first place, and they push a "We are all Russians" message---Like Putin. So they use "history" as part of the propaganda.

But he gone just annex the rest of the country and unless we go into WWWIII which we really cannot and wouldn't get approval from Congress, Ukraine--->Russia/U..S..SR. Then he will move on to the rest of Eastern Europe until he is done or dies. Putin is otherworldly and is a Ghengis Khan in disguise. He fancies himself a conqueror bringing Russia back to the Romanov times. He was never to be trusted. I was angry when Obama and his family sat taking pictures near the Kremlin. Congress had always been united (pre-Trump) that Putin was a PROBLEM. Putin has the US and the West right where he want us: confused. He used the pandemic as an opportunity to fulfill a wish.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

Oooh, thanks for this. I didn't know they weren't a part of NATO, but that makes sense.

I really have been trying to understand why Putin wants Ukraine. But you're right, it probably is a power grab. I've been thinking this is just a way to pull the U.S. into a war. We're already so divided. Our people are struggling. We manufacture nothing in this country. And I'm nervous about Russia's friendliness with China. Are they working together to bring us down? But I really don't understand the whole picture.

Using Death by 1000 cuts. We won't know where the death blow will come for but we will prepare...learning to late that it was never the point to deal a death blow, but to see the US fall like Rome. Over hundreds of years until it simply ceases to exist.

 

[MamaBear2012]

Using Death by 1000 cuts. We won't know where the death blow will come for but we will prepare...learning to late that it was never the point to deal a death blow, but to see the US fall like Rome. Over hundreds of years until it simply ceases to exist.

This is what has been in my head since I watched the documentary "American Factory" on Netflix. I think it was produced by the Obamas. Or they were involved. But the point that stuck with me was the loyalty that the Chinese citizens had to their government. And how everything they did was to advance China. And now I'm looking at Chinese investors coming in swooping up all of these houses in the U.S. And they already manufacture so much of what we use on a daily basis. It seems like they are playing the long game. And Americans are...not. So, China and Russia together just seems tragic for us.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

Oooh, thanks for this. I didn't know they weren't a part of NATO, but that makes sense.

I really have been trying to understand why Putin wants Ukraine. But you're right, it probably is a power grab. I've been thinking this is just a way to pull the U.S. into a war. We're already so divided. Our people are struggling. We manufacture nothing in this country. And I'm nervous about Russia's friendliness with China. Are they working together to bring us down? But I really don't understand the whole picture.

Idk. Seems like China wouldn't want to bring us down because we buy everything from them and they lend us a lot of money. Who will enrich them if we're gone? Anything is possible though. It's not like they like us. We're political frenemies at best.

Are you familiar with Havana Syndrome? There was a story on 60 Minutes this weekend. I knew about the incidents in Cuba and vaguely recall hearing about it elsewhere. Now they're saying that people have been attacked while on the White House grounds. Others were attacked inside their DC homes. There's a boldness here that should be met with swift action. I don't believe the US doesn't know who's behind it. Maybe there are covert operations handling this but it's really disturbing. What if the president or vp was compromised? They mentioned on the show that a high ranking official was attacked but they didn't give a name or title. It seemed to be a cabinet level position.



ETA: I've been wondering who's behind this. My first thought was Russia but I think Putin is behind everything. China seems slightly more likely with it's expertise in technology. I could see them working together on something like this. Or even our foes in the Middle East but I think our surveillance of them is better than it is of China or Russia. I think we'd know about it. When I saw "we" I mean the government. I doubt they'd ever tell us until it was handled. Can you imagine if something like this was unleashed on the public?

 

[Rastafarai]

I thought Ukraine like Crimea was always part of Russian territory. That's why he doesn't view Ukraine as independent, and quite frankly the people share the same culture.

Interesting to see if he takes Ukraine. Even with sanctions against Russia, we will suffer, especially where it concerns oil/gas.

 

[MamaBear2012]

@Black Ambrosia - I saw Havana Syndrome in the news, but didn't pay attention. See, this is the kind of bigger picture stuff that I just don't know. I feel like I can't really connect the dots on any of this stuff. I'm just guessing at everything. But then again, I guess a lot of people are guessing because some of it we won't know until well into the future.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I'm always really impressed when people explain current events with historical context. I'd like to be able to do that but I never have the interest until something happens like now.

I think Putin wants to put together the old USSR but idk why other than it being a power grab. I'm sure there's more to it. What I do know is Biden is reluctant to go to war over Ukraine because Ukraine isn't part of NATO. NATO members look out for each other and Ukraine isn't part of the club. They want to be but Putin has been fighting it because Ukraine would have the support of the US military if Putin invaded and he's been wanting to do that since Russia took over Crimea. Also, NATO membership requires a unanimous vote of member nations and there are a few that don't want Ukraine to join because they don't want to be forced to get involved in a fight against Russia. Not getting involved has serious repercussions for the Ukrainian people who we've previously supported with weapons and resources. If we don't intervene Russia will take over and a lot of people will be killed.

Putin is trying to get back to 80's Superpower status before China becomes the worlds overlord and the best time to do it is while the world is on better managed fire with the pandemic. There have been quite a few international land grab attempts since Covid hit the scene.

Pretty much the majority of news I'm hearing from Israel is making sure the Jews in the area are stocked up but ready to get out of the Ukraine at the first sign of invasion. It's a lot of Ukraine Jews who have already left for Israel.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

I thought Ukraine like Crimea was always part of Russian territory. That's why he doesn't view Ukraine as independent, and quite frankly the people share the same culture.

Interesting to see if he takes Ukraine. Even with sanctions against Russia, we will suffer, especially where it concerns oil/gas.

Just adding this here. NPR ran a story about the history of Ukraine and Russia: https://www.nprillinois.org/2022-02-22/putin-has-his-own-version-of-ukraines-history

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I'm always really impressed when people explain current events with historical context. I'd like to be able to do that but I never have the interest until something happens like now.

I think Putin wants to put together the old USSR but idk why other than it being a power grab. I'm sure there's more to it. What I do know is Biden is reluctant to go to war over Ukraine because Ukraine isn't part of NATO. NATO members look out for each other and Ukraine isn't part of the club. They want to be but Putin has been fighting it because Ukraine would have the support of the US military if Putin invaded and he's been wanting to do that since Russia took over Crimea. Also, NATO membership requires a unanimous vote of member nations and there are a few that don't want Ukraine to join because they don't want to be forced to get involved in a fight against Russia. Not getting involved has serious repercussions for the Ukrainian people who we've previously supported with weapons and resources. If we don't intervene Russia will take over and a lot of people will be killed.

This is about re-creating the Russian Empire. Ukraine came under Russian rule under Catherine the Great, who Putin calls Russia's greatest emperor/empress. He wants to restore Russian imperial power and prestige. This a colonial move to destroy Ukrainian sovereignty.

If people are interested in learning more, here are two people I'm following on this since I am a history nerd, was a European History major but this is not my area of expertise. One is a Black American journalist who's spent the last decade living part time in Ukraine. He's been on MSNBC a lot in the last few days. The other a Black woman studying for her PhD in race in the USSR/GDR.

https://twitter.com/terrelljstarr

https://twitter.com/ksvarnon

For those interested, I am working on the Astrology of what's happening. I kinda thought late March-early April was when we'd start seeing some action.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I thought Ukraine like Crimea was always part of Russian territory. That's why he doesn't view Ukraine as independent, and quite frankly the people share the same culture.

Interesting to see if he takes Ukraine. Even with sanctions against Russia, we will suffer, especially where it concerns oil/gas.

Yes it was during the Romanov rule. Ukraine today is divided. The western half is Ukrainian-speaking, more aligned with the West, EU, Germany etc. The eastern half is Russian-speaking, supported the USSR and more aligned with Russia. That's why Putin feels justified. He also hates Ukrainians.

 

[Miss_Luna]

I'm also not a history major, by any means, but historically, I believe Ukraine had a much smaller military after the end of the Soviet Union and gave up their nuclear weapons as part of the fall.

Because of this (dropping their nuclear program), from what I can remember, the West promised to support them IF they were to ever be attacked/targeted. I think that's why so many Western countries/EU are offering them support now. This is in edition to everything else @ScorpioBeauty09 mentioned.

I think it was hinted/mentioned that Ukraine wants to join NATO which is a huge no-no for Russia/Pu.tin

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I'm also not a history major, by any means, but historically, I believe Ukraine had a much smaller military after the end of the Soviet Union and gave up their nuclear weapons as part of the fall.

Because of this (dropping their nuclear program), from what I can remember, the West promised to support them IF they were to ever be attacked/targeted. I think that's why so many Western countries/EU are offering them support now. This is in edition to everything else @ScorpioBeauty09 mentioned.

I think it was hinted/mentioned that Ukraine wants to join NATO which is a huge no-no for Russia/Pu.tin

I'm hearing this too. The fact that the US (and UK) has dictated who gets nuclear weapons helped create this situation. I'm mixed on MAD and I don't want a nuclear war but unless the West is going to send troops to Ukraine (because sanctions aren't going to cut it), the fact that Ukraine was forced to give up their weapons while Russia was allowed to keep them, is insanity.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

 

[Black Ambrosia]

Ukraine Crisis Kicks Off New Superpower Struggle Among U.S., Russia and China​

Beijing and Moscow now hold a stronger hand in confronting the West than during the Cold War​

By
Updated Feb. 23, 2022 11:19 pm ET

Russia’s audacious military assault on Ukraine is the first major clash marking a new order in international politics, with three major powers jostling for position in ways that threaten America’s primacy.

The challenges are different than those the U.S. and its network of alliances faced in the Cold War. Russia and China have built a thriving partnership based in part on a shared interest in diminishing U.S. power. Unlike the Sino-Soviet bloc of the 1950s, Russia is a critical gas supplier to Europe, while China isn’t an impoverished, war-ravaged partner but the world’s manufacturing powerhouse with an expanding military.

In deploying a huge force and on Thursday ordering what he called a “special military operation,” Russian President Vladimir Putin is demanding that the West rewrite the post-Cold War security arrangements for Europe and demonstrated that Russia has the military capability to impose its will despite Western objections and economic sanctions.

To do this, Mr. Putin shifted military units from Russia’s border with China, showing confidence in his relations with Beijing. The two powers, in effect, are coordinating to reshape the global order to their advantage, though their ties stop short of a formal alliance.

This emerging order leaves the U.S. contending with two adversaries at once in geographically disparate parts of the world where America has close partners and deep economic and political interests. The Biden administration now faces big decisions on whether to regear its priorities, step up military spending, demand allies contribute more, station additional forces abroad and develop more diverse energy sources to reduce Europe’s dependence on Moscow.

“We all thought we were looking at a Europe whole, free and at peace indefinitely,” said Michele Flournoy, who served as the Pentagon’s top policy official during the Obama administration. “We knew that Russia would conduct gray zone operations and that Putin would use his KGB playbook to create instability on his periphery. But a wholesale invasion of a sovereign country to reorient its government is a different moment.”

“And we’re seeing that while Beijing doesn’t really like Putin’s tactics, they’re willing to band together as authoritarian states against the Western democracies,” Ms. Flournoy added. “We are going to see more and more of that in the future.”

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping meet in Beijing earlier in the month.​

The U.S. predicament in part grew out of moves by Washington at the end of the Cold War. As the globe’s sole superpower, the U.S. pushed to promote democracy around the world and expand the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the key Cold War military alliance in Europe, to include former members of the Kremlin-dominated Warsaw Pact and some former Soviet republics. That responded to the decades-old yearnings of East European nations to be free of Moscow’s dominion.

Mr. Putin, however, saw his rivalry with the West as a zero-sum game and set about moving Russia toward its Soviet-era prominence, with greater say over the nations on its periphery.

China’s Communist Party leadership also saw pro-democracy protest movements in former Soviet republics as U.S.-engineered plots that could ultimately be used against Beijing. In response, China’s leadership tightened controls at home while redoubling a military buildup—trends that accelerated when Xi Jinping took charge a decade ago. When pro-democracy protesters rose up in Hong Kong, Mr. Xi imposed harsh security laws, brushing off agreements his predecessors made giving autonomy to the former British colony and international financial center.

For much of the past decade, the U.S. security establishment began taking note of what the Pentagon in 2015 called the “re-emergence of great power competition” and shifted from its emphasis of counterterrorism operations in the Middle East and Southwest Asia.

In setting priorities as the Pentagon seeks to retool for future conflicts, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has repeatedly cast China as the “pacing challenge” while Russia was seen as the lesser longer-term danger.

Lloyd Austin, the U.S. defense secretary, visited a Polish air base on Friday.​

The projection matched President Biden’s priorities even as he pledged to buttress the world’s democracies. He took office wanting to focus on the pandemic, the economy and other domestic issues, promising a “middle class” foreign policy that would deliver returns for Americans after costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Managing relations with Moscow would help the administration concentrate on the military, economic and technological competition with Beijing.

Toward this end, Mr. Biden held a summit meeting in June with Mr. Putin to forge what the White House called a “stable, predictable” relationship. To put guardrails on relations with Moscow, Mr. Biden agreed to a five-year extension of the New START treaty limiting long-range U.S. and Russian nuclear arms. The White House also directed the Pentagon to explore using Russian bases in Central Asia to prevent the re-emergence of a terrorist threat in Afghanistan after the withdrawal of U.S. troops.

Mr. Putin, however, tried to take advantage of Washington’s focus elsewhere to pursue his agenda of bringing Belarus and Ukraine into Moscow’s sphere of influence, most notably with Russia’s major military buildup on the doorstep of the U.S.’s European allies and its new assault on Ukraine.

Even with annual defense budgets that soared over $700 billion, coping with an urgent Russian-generated crisis while preparing for a Chinese threat whose peak is still years away presents an enormous challenge for the Pentagon.

“The United States is particularly at risk of being overwhelmed should its military be forced to fight on two or more fronts simultaneously,” said a congressionally mandated study of the Pentagon’s strategy that was issued in 2018 by former military officers and defense officials. One of them, Kathleen Hicks, is now President Biden’s deputy defense secretary directing the agency’s programs and plans.

The crisis is already leading the U.S. to move more troops to Europe and will likely prompt it to rethink defense spending levels and perhaps even the size of its armed forces. The era of nuclear reductions may come to an end as the U.S. military establishment argues for a large enough nuclear arsenal to deter both Russia’s formidable nuclear weaponry and China’s rapidly growing nuclear forces, which aren’t limited by any arms-control agreement.

U.S. Army soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division were deployed to Poland to reassure NATO allies and deter Russian aggression.​

Having to counter both Russia and China will also lead the Biden administration to lean more heavily on the alliances the U.S. has used to augment its global power. When Messrs. Putin and Xi held a summit in Beijing earlier this month, a 5,300-word statement they released afterward took aim at NATO as well as U.S. alliances with Australia and others in Asia for seeking “unilateral military advantages to the detriment of the security of others.”

China has reinforced military outposts in the South China Sea, a vital global sea lane. It is also constructing a nascent network of bases around the world that could be used by its rapidly expanding navy, piggybacking on port facilities being built as part of its Belt and Road infrastructure initiative. The U.S. is trying to prevent the Chinese navy from gaining its first foothold on the Atlantic, pressuring Equatorial Guinea to spurn Beijing’s advances.

“The United States is going to have to get used again to operating in multiple theaters simultaneously—not just militarily, but in terms of psychology and foreign-policy making,” said Eliot Cohen, a military historian at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank.


Western countries imposed sanctions on Russia as President Biden said Moscow had begun its invasion of Ukraine. The measures are expected to have limited impact on Russia’s economy, but the U.S. and its allies say they send a strong signal.

As the administration tries to sort through the new challenges, the Pentagon has delayed the release of its national defense strategy intended to spell out plans to deter the U.S.’s great power rivals and its new review of what nuclear weapons to develop and the range of threats they should deter. Already, debates are emerging among U.S. defense experts on whether the Pentagon should give equal weight to the twin challenges from Beijing and Moscow or focus more on the Pacific.

Beyond the military, the new confrontation with Moscow might also accelerate a further fracturing of economic globalization. China and the U.S. are trying to unravel supply chains for critical technologies. Should the West impose crippling sanctions on Russian banks and major companies, Moscow is likely to become more reliant on Beijing, which has issued a digital currency and is building a payments system separate from the West’s.

Energy is also likely to become an even greater focal point for national security, owing to Europe’s dependence on supplies of natural gas from Russia, which accounted for 29% of Europe’s natural-gas market last year.

A compressor station at the starting point of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in Ust-Luga, Russia.​

“It is already ending the amnesia about the importance of energy security,” said Daniel Yergin, vice chairman of research firm IHS Markit. “It means a new emphasis on diversification of energy sources for Europe and a new look at U.S. domestic and international energy policies.”

Advocates of using energy as a geopolitical tool say Washington should promote investment in U.S. oil and natural gas and approve new LNG export terminals and pipelines in the U.S.

In Europe, the crisis has already rocked NATO, with its secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg, saying the alliance needs to reconfigure itself to deal with a “new normal in European security.”

At a security conference in Munich over the weekend, Vice President Kamala Harris and other leaders cited the unity that the U.S. and its European partners have displayed in the face of Russia’s actions.

Vice President Kamala Harris speaking at the Munich Security Conference on Saturday.​

In the short run, NATO officials say, that may mean sending new battle groups to southeastern Europe and beefing up allied forces in Poland and the Baltic States on NATO’s eastern flank. The 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act precludes the alliance from permanently stationing additional substantial combat forces on the territory of its new Eastern and Central European members, but could now be repealed.

A recent poll by the European Council on Foreign Relations noted most Europeans see the Ukraine crisis as a broader threat to Europe. Some current and former officials, however, worry that the alliance’s solidarity could fray in the years ahead as it debates the need for greater military spending and wrestles whether its military ties with Georgia might stir new confrontations with Moscow.

In June, NATO is planning to adopt its new “strategic concept” at a summit meeting in Madrid, which will outline the broad principles of how the alliance plans to deal with security challenges in the decade ahead. It will come as a report by the Alphen Group by former officials and other experts urges that European members of the alliance and Canada provide for 50% of NATO’s minimum military requirements by 2030 so the U.S. can focus more on deterring China.

“Everybody’s unified right now and outraged about what the Russians are doing,” said Alexander Vershbow, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO who also served as the alliance’s deputy secretary-general from 2012 to 2016. “But when we get down to making longer-term commitments to strengthen NATO’s defense posture and potentially revisit nuclear issues, it could become very divisive.”

 

[dancinstallion]

This is terrible and sad. How in 2022 can a country just be invaded and everybody is just watching.


What product increases will we see in the US besides gas prices. Possibly wheat?

 

[Black Ambrosia]

This is terrible and sad. How on 2020 can a country just be invaded and everybody is just watching.


What product increases will we see in the US besides gas prices. Possibly wheat?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a coordinated response or some action from the EU. No one wants to go toe to toe with Russia but if Ukraine is seized that puts the EU right next door to Russia. Putin isn't gonna be content with just Ukraine. If he's successful (and he will be if we and the world don't intervene), Ukraine will be the first of many.

I think we'll see more overt cyberattacks here. I'm thinking back to the issues with the power grid across the country one summer several years ago. That's ripe for exploiting. Or the grid in Texas. It doesn't help Russia with Ukraine but they're into psychological warfare. If China is a part of this, they may withhold some consumer products but the supply chain is already pretty compromised with covid so IDK how that'll work. On the upside, we may see more manufacturing here depending on how long this lasts. Everything will then be a lot more expensive (for years because we'd have to build manufacturing sites to make this possible) but it'll make things more readily available and may help raise wages for factory workers.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I'm also not a history major, by any means, but historically, I believe Ukraine had a much smaller military after the end of the Soviet Union and gave up their nuclear weapons as part of the fall.

Because of this (dropping their nuclear program), from what I can remember, the West promised to support them IF they were to ever be attacked/targeted. I think that's why so many Western countries/EU are offering them support now. This is in edition to everything else @ScorpioBeauty09 mentioned.

I think it was hinted/mentioned that Ukraine wants to join NATO which is a huge no-no for Russia/Pu.tin

Its true. It why the last President spent so much time boosting the military there after the Crimea was annexed.

 

[MamaBear2012]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a coordinated response or some action from the EU. No one wants to go toe to toe with Russia but if Ukraine is seized that puts the EU right next door to Russia. Putin isn't gonna be content with just Ukraine. If he's successful (and he will be if we and the world don't intervene), Ukraine will be the first of many.

I think we'll see more overt cyberattacks here. I'm thinking back to the issues with the power grid across the county one summer several years ago. That's ripe for exploiting. Or the grid in Texas. It doesn't help Russia with Ukraine but they're into psychological warfare. If China is a part of this, they may withhold some consumer products but the supply chain is already pretty compromised with covid so IDK how that'll work. On the upside, we may see more manufacturing here depending on how long this lasts. Everything will then be a lot more expensive (for years because we'd have to build manufacturing sites to make this possible) but it'll make things more readily available and may help raise wages for factory workers.

I mentioned some of this in a different thread. I have my family stocked with the basic items that we use for about a year out. Some things a little bit more than a year. And we'd be good with canned foods and non-perishable items for a good while. Part of that was simply the thought that China might play hard ball and we'd be screwed. I wasn't even thinking about Russia. And a lot of it was thinking about inflation and the supply chain. I'd rather buy the things we use now while it's cheaper and I know it's available. And I do have a full freezer. But not relying on that because of what you put in bold. Cyberattacks on utilities means those stocked freezers are useless. And while it's easy to think, "Nah, that won't happen," I saw it happen with gasoline here in GA. An attack that leads to panic that leads to shortages.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a coordinated response or some action from the EU. No one wants to go toe to toe with Russia but if Ukraine is seized that puts the EU right next door to Russia. Putin isn't gonna be content with just Ukraine. If he's successful (and he will be if we and the world don't intervene), Ukraine will be the first of many.

I think we'll see more overt cyberattacks here. I'm thinking back to the issues with the power grid across the county one summer several years ago. That's ripe for exploiting. Or the grid in Texas. It doesn't help Russia with Ukraine but they're into psychological warfare. If China is a part of this, they may withhold some consumer products but the supply chain is already pretty compromised with covid so IDK how that'll work. On the upside, we may see more manufacturing here depending on how long this lasts. Everything will then be a lot more expensive (for years because we'd have to build manufacturing sites to make this possible) but it'll make things more readily available and may help raise wages for factory workers.

Because they have the best/thuggish hackers on the planet. The majority of this war will be online. I strongly believe Tr.um.p was installed by Pu.t.in. I know now that T.ru.m.p/GO.P will use this to say Biden is weak (Ni.kki Haley and others are already spreading this narrative) to try and get T.ru.m.p installed. That way they will beg for him. Not that Tr.um.p would send a war to Pu.ti.n.

 

[TrulyBlessed]

 

[Black Ambrosia]

Because they have the best/thuggish hackers on the planet. The majority of this war will be online. I strongly believe Tr.um.p was installed by Pu.t.in. I know now that T.ru.m.p/GO.P will use this to say Biden is weak (Ni.kki Haley and others are already spreading this narrative) to try and get T.ru.m.p installed. That way they will beg for him. Not that Tr.um.p would send a war to Pu.ti.n.

I saw tweets last night about how trump kept the peace but now that Biden is in charge there's war. The crazy thing about that narrative is that we're not at war. We may be soon but this isn't about us yet. Not directly anyway. Americans as a whole don't give a damn about two countries fighting on the other side of the globe but they're so anxious to promote trump that they've made this about Biden supposedly things up.

There's no doubt in my mind that Putin is responsible for trump's presidency. Deutsche Bank financed his lifestyle for years by lending money for his failing real estate developments that no other bank would touch. That was at the behest of Russia and part of the big money laundering scheme that came out a few years ago. Also, we know Russia was behind the disinformation campaign against Hillary. It hasn't been proven but I believe they managed to hack the vote in Wisconsin and at least one other state that was really close.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

I don't doubt that he means it. But what does it look like? Famine? Shut down the banks? Crime increasing because of the chaos he's creating? How does one prepare for this aside from your standard doomsday/Y2K preppers? And is that even enough?

 

[oneastrocurlie]

Thanks for the recaps. This is much better than hearing my coworker rant and others give commentary during our work meetings this morning.

 

[fifi134]

Russia has seized Chernobyl.