We talking about Russia and Ukraine?

Nay

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised there hasn't been a coordinated response or some action from the EU. No one wants to go toe to toe with Russia but if Ukraine is seized that puts the EU right next door to Russia. Putin isn't gonna be content with just Ukraine. If he's successful (and he will be if we and the world don't intervene), Ukraine will be the first of many.

I think we'll see more overt cyberattacks here. I'm thinking back to the issues with the power grid across the country one summer several years ago. That's ripe for exploiting. Or the grid in Texas. It doesn't help Russia with Ukraine but they're into psychological warfare. If China is a part of this, they may withhold some consumer products but the supply chain is already pretty compromised with covid so IDK how that'll work. On the upside, we may see more manufacturing here depending on how long this lasts. Everything will then be a lot more expensive (for years because we'd have to build manufacturing sites to make this possible) but it'll make things more readily available and may help raise wages for factory workers.
I went to bed last night with a sense of dread. This whole situation (and everything else going on in the world) is making me feel real uncomfortable. It just feels like a rather scary time in history. Like what's coming down the pike next??
 

naturalgyrl5199

Well-Known Member
I saw tweets last night about how trump kept the peace but now that Biden is in charge there's war. The crazy thing about that narrative is that we're not at war. We may be soon but this isn't about us yet. Not directly anyway. Americans as a whole don't give a damn about two countries fighting on the other side of the globe but they're so anxious to promote trump that they've made this about Biden supposedly :censored: things up.

There's no doubt in my mind that Putin is responsible for trump's presidency. Deutsche Bank financed his lifestyle for years by lending money for his failing real estate developments that no other bank would touch. That was at the behest of Russia and part of the big money laundering scheme that came out a few years ago. Also, we know Russia was behind the disinformation campaign against Hillary. It hasn't been proven but I believe they managed to hack the vote in Wisconsin and at least one other state that was really close.
I believe they hacked Madison County FL to push for Trump and DeSantis. Madison county FL historically is a unicorn. Its Rural county near Tallahassee and is uniquely home to the highest percentage of black people in FLORIDA (its 38%). But it went red?
Most Florida Counties are 15-30% BLACK/AA
Miami-17% Black (BLUE)
Ft. Lauderdale-30% (BLUE)
Jacksonville-30% (BLUE)
Madison, Florida 37.8% (Red????)

We believe Gilliam lost bc of the shenanigans that went on there. Also---most of the black folk who live here know each other or are related. And they are NOT Red-leaning in politics at all.

Next door, in Jefferson county (Monticello), they still shut the city down at 12:00 PM on Fridays.
10 points to anyone who can guess why.

These are the 3 largest municipalities
How sway?
 

dancinstallion

Well-Known Member
I went to bed last night with a sense of dread. This whole situation (and everything else going on in the world) is making me feel real uncomfortable. It just feels like a rather scary time in history. Like what's coming down the pike next??

I don't want to think about it but the future looks grim. We can act like it isn't happening and go about our lives but being oblivious has consequences too.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a coordinated response or some action from the EU. No one wants to go toe to toe with Russia but if Ukraine is seized that puts the EU right next door to Russia. Putin isn't gonna be content with just Ukraine. If he's successful (and he will be if we and the world don't intervene), Ukraine will be the first of many.

I think we'll see more overt cyberattacks here. I'm thinking back to the issues with the power grid across the country one summer several years ago. That's ripe for exploiting. Or the grid in Texas. It doesn't help Russia with Ukraine but they're into psychological warfare. If China is a part of this, they may withhold some consumer products but the supply chain is already pretty compromised with covid so IDK how that'll work. On the upside, we may see more manufacturing here depending on how long this lasts. Everything will then be a lot more expensive (for years because we'd have to build manufacturing sites to make this possible) but it'll make things more readily available and may help raise wages for factory workers.

They are already doing rolling blackouts in some areas of Houston and it's suburbs. :nono:
My coworker said her lights have been turned off for around 3 hours each week for the last month. The electric company finally said it is because of the increased demands due to the freezing Temps. We only had 2 days of freezing Temps and it wasn't nearly as bad as last year.

I think solar panels are the only way around it but it has been so gloomy/cloudy the last week so IDk how that would work. The battery pack probably would be used up. I guess just decrease usage. Which will cover the 3 hour blackouts. I see it wouldn't last for days.

The more I think about it the more pessimistic I feel.
 
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ScorpioBeauty09

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised there hasn't been a coordinated response or some action from the EU. No one wants to go toe to toe with Russia but if Ukraine is seized that puts the EU right next door to Russia. Putin isn't gonna be content with just Ukraine. If he's successful (and he will be if we and the world don't intervene), Ukraine will be the first of many.

I think we'll see more overt cyberattacks here. I'm thinking back to the issues with the power grid across the country one summer several years ago. That's ripe for exploiting. Or the grid in Texas. It doesn't help Russia with Ukraine but they're into psychological warfare. If China is a part of this, they may withhold some consumer products but the supply chain is already pretty compromised with covid so IDK how that'll work. On the upside, we may see more manufacturing here depending on how long this lasts. Everything will then be a lot more expensive (for years because we'd have to build manufacturing sites to make this possible) but it'll make things more readily available and may help raise wages for factory workers.
I doubt it. Corporations have made record-profits, the highest since the 50s yet they used the supply chain crisis to justify raising their prices and hardly, if any went to most workers. It went into the CEOs pockets. :angry2: People will make money out of this geopolitical crisis but it won't be your average worker. :nono:
 

MamaBear2012

Well-Known Member
I had DH fill up our gas tanks yesterday. He kept saying he would do it later. Then later. Then later. He eventually went out around 8:30 and got gas and came back talking about, "$3.29! Man!" I was like, "Sir, it's been $3.29 for a good 2 weeks now." He's oblivious. Anyway, that same gas station is $3.45 today. I guess we'll see how high it climbs.
 

Black Ambrosia

Well-Known Member
I doubt it. Corporations have made record-profits, the highest since the 50s yet they used the supply chain crisis to justify raising their prices and hardly, if any went to most workers. It went into the CEOs pockets. :angry2: People will make money out of this geopolitical crisis but it won't be your average worker. :nono:
I don't expect big business to do anything out of the kindness of it's heart. I'm thinking about the current job market where fast food restaurants are offering $17 an hour and can't get people to show up. Companies may have to raise wages to keep the lights on. I'm sure things will change some but without more intel I'm basing my comment on the current job market.
 

Miss_Luna

Well-Known Member
There is no way this will end well for R.ussia or their president, especially their president. There is no way to get out of this without something drastic happening and even if it ends there will be significant changes to life over there.

This is a proxy war with the West and so many lives will be lost due to an egomaniac and his need for power.
 

Black Ambrosia

Well-Known Member
I'm reminded of an episode of the Rachel Maddow show I saw sometime last year. It was about Russian spies in the U.S. and how embarrassingly bad they were. I'm not underestimating Putin but there are chinks in his armor. I take his threat seriously but it'll be interesting to see if he's able to deliver beyond cyberattacks.
 

Black Ambrosia

Well-Known Member

‘Abrupt Changes’: China Caught in a Bind Over Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

China has presented itself as a defender of sovereign independence. But its reluctance to denounce Russia’s aggression forces it into an awkward position.​

Feb. 25, 2022
Updated 1:44 p.m. ET
President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia meeting with his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, this month in Beijing.

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia meeting with his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, this month in Beijing.


As Russian troops have poured into Ukraine, officials in Beijing have fumed at any suggestion that they are betraying a core principle of Chinese foreign policy — that sovereignty is sacrosanct — in order to shield Moscow.

They will not even call it an invasion. “Russia’s operation” is one preferred description. The “current situation” is another. And China’s leader, Xi Jinping, says his position on the crisis is perfectly coherent.

“The abrupt changes in the eastern regions of Ukraine have been drawing the close attention of the international community,” Mr. Xi told his Russian counterpart, Vladimir V. Putin, in a call on Friday, according to an official Chinese summary.

“China’s fundamental stance has been consistent in respecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries, and abiding by the mission and principles of the United Nations Charter,” Mr. Xi said.

Outside the echo chamber of Chinese official media, however, there seems little doubt that Russia’s war has put its partner Beijing in a severe bind, including over where it stands on countries’ sovereign rights.

China’s quandary may have played a role Friday in what appeared to be a new offer by Russia to negotiate with Ukraine’s embattled leadership.

After Mr. Putin’s phone call with Mr. Xi, the Russian president signaled he was open to talks — reversing his own foreign minister’s statement hours earlier. The Kremlin framed Mr. Putin’s position as a response to Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, that he was ready to discuss “neutral status” for Ukraine.

Whether Mr. Xi pressured Mr. Putin to be more accommodating remains unclear at best. But talks to resolve the crisis would clearly be in China’s interest, easing what critics see as its double-standard on the sovereignty issue.

On the one hand, China has long said that the United States and other Western powers routinely trample over other countries, most egregiously in recent times in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. China’s message has been that it is the true guardian of sovereign independence, especially for poorer countries.

On the other hand, Mr. Putin has expected Mr. Xi to accept, if not support, the invasion. Mr. Xi’s government has played along so far, laying responsibility for Europe’s worst war in decades on hubris by the United States. China has also distanced itself from the condemnation of Russia at the United Nations.

Ukrainian National Guard members on Friday in Kyiv, a day after Russia launched a huge military operation against Ukraine.

Ukrainian National Guard members on Friday in Kyiv, a day after Russia launched a huge military operation against Ukraine.Gleb Garanich/Reuters

China’s “central attack on the United States as a global power since Xi Jinping has come to office has been to accuse it of continued violation of U.N. Charter principles on national sovereignty,” Kevin Rudd, a former prime minister of Australia who served as a diplomat in China, said in a telephone interview. “This torpedoes that argument midship.”

The growing economic relationship between China and Russia also has given Mr. Xi some potential leverage in pushing for Mr. Putin to quickly resolve the Ukraine crisis. With severe sanctions now imposed on Russia by Western powers, Mr. Putin may need China more than ever as an investor and buyer of Russian oil, wheat and other products.

Unless the Ukraine crisis is resolved, China will continue performing verbal contortions to try to balance its solidarity with Russia with its declared devotion to the sanctity of the nation-state, experts and former diplomats said.

If the war expands and persists, the costs for China of hemming and hawing over a deadly crisis may grow.

Beijing’s stance has already angered Western European leaders and hardened American frustration with China. Asian and African countries traditionally close to Beijing have condemned Russia’s actions. One of the main currencies of Chinese diplomacy — its declared dedication to sovereign rights for all countries — could be devalued.

“The incoherence is damaging to China over the long term,” said Adam Ni, an analyst who publishes China Neican, a newsletter on Chinese current affairs.

“It undermines China’s long-held foreign policy principles, and makes it harder to project itself as a responsible great power,” he said. Mr. Ni said it would also “be seen by the U.S. and E.U. member states as duplicity and complicity in Russian aggression, which will likely have costs for Beijing.”

Chinese newspapers have uniformly held to the government’s position on the war, accusing the United States of provoking Russia by holding open the possibility that Ukraine could join NATO.

The Ukrainian Embassy in Beijing on Thursday.

The Ukrainian Embassy in Beijing on Thursday.

“China believes that the chief cause of this war was the United States’ long-term failure to respect Russian security,” said Xuewu Gu, the director of the Center for Global Studies at the University of Bonn in Germany. “In that sense, China sees this war as one of self-defense by Russia, therefore naturally it would not describe it as an invasion.”

In private, some Chinese academics have shared misgivings about Mr. Xi’s embrace of Mr. Putin. And on the Chinese internet, some users have robustly questioned how China’s position on the Ukraine war squares with its longstanding precept that countries should steer their own fates.

“Ukraine is a sovereign, independent country, and if it wants to join NATO or the E.U., that’s its freedom and nobody else has the right to intervene,” said one comment on Friday on Weibo, a popular Chinese social media service.

More than most countries, China has upheld the idea that national sovereignty trumps other concerns, including human rights standards. China’s modern concept of sovereignty — “zhuquan” in Chinese — developed from the 19th century when Western powers subjugated the Qing rulers.

“There’s a great insistence on a full concept of sovereignty, and it’s typical of third world colonial or semi-colonial environments,” said Ryan Mitchell, a law professor at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, on how such concepts evolved in China. “That remains true today.”

Beijing’s muscular notion of how far its sovereignty reaches has become one of the main drivers — and trouble points — of Chinese policy.

Beijing has maintained that Taiwan, the self-governed island that has never been ruled by the Chinese Communist Party, must eventually be united with China, even if armed force is needed. Beijing has made expansive claims to islands and waters across the South China Sea. It has also been locked in clashes with India over disputed borderlands.

Anti-tank fortifications from previous conflicts lining the shore of a beach in Kinmen, Taiwan — with a view of China in the distance — in November.

Anti-tank fortifications from previous conflicts lining the shore of a beach in Kinmen, Taiwan — with a view of China in the distance — in November.

In domestic policy, too, the Chinese government has made sovereignty a focus. When the authorities put dissidents on trial in secret, they brush off requests for access or information by citing “judicial sovereignty.” When Chinese internet censorship is criticized, officials cite China’s right to preserve its “cybersovereignty.”

In meetings with Chinese diplomats, the word came up often, said Mr. Rudd, the former prime minister of Australia, who is now president of the Asia Society.

“The whole notion of mutual noninterference and the respect for national sovereignty has been not just a cosmetic principle but an operational principle for the Chinese system internally,” he said.

Chinese diplomats will be busy explaining how that comports with their position on Ukraine.

That may be tricky, but they have some practice. When Russian forces seized Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, China tried to strike a balance. It abstained from a United Nations Security Council resolution urging states not to recognize Russia’s claim to the area, but it did not formally recognize Russia’s claim, either. Chinese leaders also tried to straddle positions after Russian forces seized territory in Georgia in 2008.

This time, however, Mr. Xi has already leaned China much more toward Russia. He and Mr. Putin met at the start of the Beijing Winter Olympics in early February, and issued a joint statement declaring that their countries’ friendship “has no bounds.”

“After that statement that ties Xi so closely to Putin, the U.S. and others are bound to punish China for enabling Russia’s aggression,” said Susan Shirk, a former deputy assistant secretary of state who now leads the 21st Century China Center at the University of California San Diego.

“But it’s also harder for China to signal to the world that it doesn’t support Russia’s move,” she said. “Looks like Putin suckered Xi.”
 
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