OK... now we get to the real reason for the sympathy... ICE has been picking up Caribbeans and Africans who are illegal. Now all of a sudden you folks who big up your cultures want to claim they are black. I asked this in another thread... if you were hiring and had a choice between a black American and an immigrant from your black culture, who would you hire? I couldn't seem to get a response. But we all know you would put your cultural attachments ahead of your racial attachments. This is exactly why I don't care if they send them back too!
OK... now we get to the real reason for the sympathy... ICE has been picking up Caribbeans and Africans who are illegal. Now all of a sudden you folks who big up your cultures want to claim they are black. I asked this in another thread... if you were hiring and had a choice between a black American and an immigrant from you black culture, who would you hire? I couldn't seem to get a response. This is exactly why I don't care if they send them back too!
I'm not unsympathetic to immigrants. Like most of humanity, most of them are without power and are struggling to survive and do their best for their families. I don't even blame them for working illegally, crossing illegally, any of that, because I'm sure if I were in a desperate enough situation I'd do the same. I don't blame any poor people in desperate situations doing what they can to better themselves. And I don't believe they all hate us or whatever one has to believe to justify feeling nothing for someone else.
However, while we work on getting these corporations to act right (I'm socialist at heart), there are not enough resources here for everyone. Many say it's a poverty mindset, and maybe so, but just saying that doesn't make it untrue. We have to fight for what we can too. We also have families to support, and are already in a position in this society where we don't have much. We can't give up what little we do have for kindness' sake, and let our own families struggle.
Okay, if calling ICE is not the way to do it, and I admit it’s a tough move, what do you suggest? We need significant political changes, but those don’t happen overnight (or even over years, it seems). Imagine you are in the situation these black workers are in, what else can they do?I agree with you 100% ... BUT calling ICE is an extreme way to fix the problem because the consequences are devastating to families. Immigrants (legal and illegal) are not the primary reason why black folks are not economically powerful. I actually don't support companies hiring illegal immigrants and I think there should be consequences for it. Illegal immigrants will figure out a way to make money because they are desperate enough.... if there is no way to make money, they'll stop coming to the US. There are changes that can and should be made on a company, and government policy level.... but don't punish the immigrants who are not the cause of the problem.
I fall into no man’s land on this board my family falls into the purchased by America so by default I am Black and American, but my home base is in the Caribbean.
After 9/11, I had black aka African American co-workers (since the consensus on this board is 100 years doesn’t qualify me and mine to ever claim AA) and white/Caucasian co-workers tell me to my face I need to go back to my country.
Have the idiot in the White House now talking about no birth right citizenship for American territories.
Funny thing is West Indians point to us and say American and Americans point to us and say West Indian/ Islander/ Caribbean.
This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.... there are not enough resources here for everyone. ...
This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.
you deliberately cut off the first clause of the sentence you quoted, and ignored what i said in the first sentence of my second paragraph, to build a straw man argument.This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.
The notion of limited resources is what is at the heart of the original article, as well as the anti-immigrant statements in this and in every other thread that mentions immigration. Although you are aware of the many other factors that have led to the current situation, far too many people - who are now scapegoating immigrants - unfortunately are not. I'm not arguing with you; I just wish people would think more about the larger reality instead of playing into white supremacists' hands.you deliberately cut off the first clause of the sentence you quoted, and ignored what i said in the first sentence of my second paragraph, to build a straw man argument.
The notion of limited resources is what is at the heart of the original article, as well as the anti-immigrant statements in this and in every other thread that mentions immigration. Although you are aware of the many other factors that have led to the current situation, far too many people - who are now scapegoating immigrants - unfortunately are not. I'm not arguing with you; I just wish people would think more about the larger reality instead of playing into white supremacists' hands.
I understand blacks frustration.
The problem is that other immigrants stick together and work together. Due to slavery that type of coordination is long gone. Read the article the immigrant advantage. All groups will be on top of AA without reparations and declaring us as a special status like the military.
There is a reason other immigrants can stick together....they have a country in common. Blacks have, at most , a continent in common. BIG difference.I understand blacks frustration.
The problem is that other immigrants stick together and work together. Due to slavery that type of coordination is long gone. Read the article the immigrant advantage. All groups will be on top of AA without reparations and declaring us as a special status like the military.
THIS!We have false empathy. We behave that way out of fear.
WELL DANG!So they were not on any POC unity bs? ONLY Hispanics, right? Meanwhile listen to worthless pieces of doggie doo like Maxine Waters, the clowns at the CBC and the NAACP and Nobama and any speech they give is always about "black and brown", "blacks and immigrants", while Julio and Maria are doing the exact opposite.
Um, no... your ancestors were brought here on the slave ships, you are definitely African American! There are no indigenous black people on these shores. My issue is with these Johnny come within the last 25-30-40 years (which is when those Hispanics starting coming in larger numbers) who are looking down on us!
Word.This is absolute nonsense. The United States easily has the resources for everyone currently here, and likely another few dozen millions, to live decently. The problem is that the United States has reverted to a Gilded Age mentality, in which a very few robber barons are hoarding the overwhelming majority of resources, while the mass population is tricked into fighting each other over crumbs. Anti-immigrant sentiment and legislation (along with tightening of Jim Crow laws) accompanied the previous Gilded Age, and what are seeing today is a repeat of history with different groups as the current scapegoats. Had the general population not gone along with the destruction of unions and labor protection laws - in other words, had middle and working class white people put voting for their economic interests above upholding their racist beliefs - the overall standard of living here would be more on par with Canada and western Europe instead of heading ever-closer to third-world levels.
Good for them. The factory and construction jobs should start going back to black workers, especially.
I understand that once the fruit- and veggies-picking jobs leave Mexican hands that I will have to start paying significantly more for produce. I selfishly hope that’s the last industry to go .... I’m ashamed .
I would also need to get over strongly disliking the optics of black people in the fields picking stuff too.
Yeah, let that be the last industry we take back.
To be fair...these are the legit jobs Mexicans take that blacks tend to not take. Talk about a generational TRIGGER. So when that Mexican President said what he said....I was like "where's the lie?"
Some blacks got aggy (prolly the ones fighting in Chicago for factory jobs), but at the time I was thinking...we can't have it both ways....w/ respect to fruit picking....
My husband was born and raised in the Florida Orange groves. He gave me the rundown. His dad said it was always blacks before the 60's. My coach in South Florida where I was raised said black kids attended school 1/2 day and picked cotton or fruit or whatever with their parents the rest of the day in the 50's. He said now (mid 90's) blacks wouldn't dare.Before the large influx of illegal immigrants there were legal migrant workers and yes, some Black people, who worked in fields. I'm going back a few decades. I remember some Black folks did it temporarily for example, this time of year for school clothes for their children. Some, of course, lived on the farm and the father worked there full time.
Otherwise, the other jobs were performed by teenagers or college students, such as dishwashing, pizza delivery, etc.
But, in the end, who is willing to work full time, under the table, no benefits at low pay other than an illegal immigrant? That's called exploitation.
WELL DANG!
But no for real I think blacks in positions of power are scared to really make statements inclusive of blacks Only. Maxine Waters has already had her life threatened by a public official and nobody said a THING. Cause no one wants to really call a spade a spade for fear of a race war. No one wants to be a Pariah or the next MLK Jr. Even though the urgency is just as serious as the CRM.....This man openly hunted a black girl and no one wants to call it a hate crime. He don't even care. I think he was trying to earn his red shoelaces. Even leaders are scared. They want to always put on an inclusive front.
Before the large influx of illegal immigrants there were legal migrant workers and yes, some Black people, who worked in fields. I'm going back a few decades. I remember some Black folks did it temporarily for example, this time of year for school clothes for their children. Some, of course, lived on the farm and the father worked there full time.
Otherwise, the other jobs were performed by teenagers or college students, such as dishwashing, pizza delivery, etc.
But, in the end, who is willing to work full time, under the table, no benefits at low pay other than an illegal immigrant? That's called exploitation.
@ the bolded, then they're useless. If politicians are so scared then they are of no use. Other nonwhite politicians have no problem centering the political discussion on their group so if Black politicians refuse to do the same then they are worthless.
I agree. There are many reasons blacks don't stick together. Good point.There is a reason other immigrants can stick together....they have a country in common. Blacks have, at most , a continent in common. BIG difference.
What made me notice this is my close friend who is Korean. ( By the way I have been in many Korean functions where they have the same "we need to stick together cry" and they DID NOT mean with other Asians).
Let me add : All Asians do not stick together just like all Europeans do not. Ever heard of sections of cities known as "little Italy" "China town" or "little Cuba"......all countries?
But of course there may be some exceptions.
Show me where Japanese stick together with Indians.
True.Reparations will just go back into the hands of whites and other nonblacks. The problem with the Black American community is that we stopped sticking together the way we did when integration forced us to. No amount of reparations can fix our problems if we don't stick together like we did when we were forced to.. And by stick together, I mean make the dollars circulate many times more within our communities than it does now.