To Be Content Alone

[Ms.Honey]

I think we all agreed that there are some people who are instructed not to marry and have heard that from the Lord.

I'm not speaking of those women.

I'm speaking of the women who have not been told that.

None of us have ever said that all people are called to marriage, but I think the number of people instructed to remain single will always be a minority.

And the "Be fruitful and multiply" statement was both a blessing and a directive.

As people called of His name, we should be setting the example in terms of encouraging marriage, not falling behind everyone else.

Some were saying it was a promise of God and it's not. It's not a competition that Christians need to keep ahead of others either. It's about quality not quantity. The number of Christian marriages is irrelevant. What we should encourage is contentment in all states.

The fruitful does not mean have babies. Having babies is just one of many ways to be fruitful and replenish the earth. Infertile people are still fruitful and replenish the earth. Productivity also has to be chosen. "I have set before ye this day blessing and curses......choose life. Deuteronomy 30:19.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Ladies,
I emailed the edited chats out today. If I missed you please email me again, also check your spam folder to see if it went there.

 

[Bunny77]

Some were saying it was a promise of God and it's not. It's not a competition that Christians need to keep ahead of others either.

My point wasn't about Christians needing to compete with other groups, it's about Christians setting the standard. When we go out into the world, we want to set the example and they shall know us by our fruit. I think that the emphasis on strong family structure with marriage at its core is a great way to do that.

It's about quality not quantity. The number of Christian marriages is irrelevant. What we should encourage is contentment in all states.

We should be working to increase quality Christian marriages. I agree that it's about quality over quantity, but they aren't mutually exclusive. We can increase the quantity of quality marriages. I agree with encouraging contentment in whatever state you happen to be in at the moment, however.

The fruitful does not mean have babies. Having babies is just one of many ways to be fruitful and replenish the earth. Infertile people are still fruitful and replenish the earth. Productivity also has to be chosen. "I have set before ye this day blessing and curses......choose life. Deuteronomy 30:19.

I agree with you on this. My point in noting that scripture though is that we as Christians should also be wary of sending out mixed messages. On one hand, we say that all must remain abstinent until marriage and have children within wedlock. Cool. But then, when Christians say, "Well marriage isn't for everyone," as a matter of course, or then see no issue with women waiting long periods for marriage that they are past the age of fertility, then what messages are we really sending here? What do we really believe in and what do we really support regarding marriages and family in the Christian community?

I know some pastors and Christian teachers/writers have seen the disconnect and potential contradiction in those ideas, which can undermine the greater message.

 

[TrendySocialite]

My point wasn't about Christians needing to compete with other groups, it's about Christians setting the standard. When we go out into the world, we want to set the example and they shall know us by our fruit. I think that the emphasis on strong family structure with marriage at its core is a great way to do that.




We should be working to increase quality Christian marriages. I agree that it's about quality over quantity, but they aren't mutually exclusive. We can increase the quantity of quality marriages. I agree with encouraging contentment in whatever state you happen to be in at the moment, however.

I agree with you on this. My point in noting that scripture though is that we as Christians should also be wary of sending out mixed messages. On one hand, we say that all must remain abstinent until marriage and have children within wedlock. Cool. But then, when Christians say, "Well marriage isn't for everyone," as a matter of course, or then see no issue with women waiting long periods for marriage that they are past the age of fertility, then what messages are we really sending here? What do we really believe in and what do we really support regarding marriages and family in the Christian community?

I agree with the bolded statement. I think this is part of the responsibility of the Great Commission Jesus preached. I'm not saying everyone should go out and start a marriage ministry, but your own relationships and marriages can be a testimony. Like the cliche says (paraphrasing), your life is sometimes the only sermon people will hear. And this does not just pertain to marriage, it extends to every area of our lives.

I think it's time that all Christians, married or single, return the honor and sanctity to marriage. This does not mean that marriage is for you or that you agree with it (the institution per se), but you at least respect it. That's the part that saddens me, is the loss of respect for the institution of marriage.

 

[kayte]

Kayte, I understood the point of your post and of course you know we're basically in agreement. I was responding to Hopeful's question about it that presented a different perspective, but I wasn't saying that perspective was the right one either. It was just another perspective. That's all.

Hey Bunny
Misunderstanding!
That answer was actually in response to an idea posited via personal anecdote of another poster ..of being adolscent or college aged and "loving oneself" but in a way that reflected that particular age...and had not..... as I tried to point out
anything to do with the author's assertion that a mature single woman
realizing a happy life engenders quite naturally ..love..marriage

I must say though I appreciate your asking yourself in regards to activity
is this qualitatively adding to my life or is it filling a void..

it honestly made me re-evaluate my business life which I love..defintely not about
a void... but it does not feel as balanced as it could...

I'm really re-thinking things based on Candace's paragraph and have already made decisons which I will probably blog

thanks for that ..I resisted the message for sure

 

[Ms.Honey]

My point wasn't about Christians needing to compete with other groups, it's about Christians setting the standard. When we go out into the world, we want to set the example and they shall know us by our fruit. I think that the emphasis on strong family structure with marriage at its core is a great way to do that.




We should be working to increase quality Christian marriages. I agree that it's about quality over quantity, but they aren't mutually exclusive. We can increase the quantity of quality marriages. I agree with encouraging contentment in whatever state you happen to be in at the moment, however.



I agree with you on this. My point in noting that scripture though is that we as Christians should also be wary of sending out mixed messages. On one hand, we say that all must remain abstinent until marriage and have children within wedlock. Cool. But then, when Christians say, "Well marriage isn't for everyone," as a matter of course, or then see no issue with women waiting long periods for marriage that they are past the age of fertility, then what messages are we really sending here? What do we really believe in and what do we really support regarding marriages and family in the Christian community?

I know some pastors and Christian teachers/writers have seen the disconnect and potential contradiction in those ideas, which can undermine the greater message.

That brings me back to my original point. Ask God what His plan is for your (not you in particular) life, that would also include His plan concerning your marital state. It saves you from waiting on marriage, being committed to someone who has no intention of marrying you or will end up falling for someone else or marrying someone unfit to be your husband in the first place.
Everyone should have their own relationship and own specific plan for their lives with God. If we are still being influenced by every wind and doctrine then we have bigger issues than finding a mate. Mixed signals should not influence a Christian. Seek God. He leads and guides us into all truths. Now whether or not we choose to follow and head His counsel will determine when and who we marry.

The waiting past the age of fertility is not the Lord's fault. Neither is the high rate of Christian divorce in this country. That's Christians fault. He can't force us to seek and obey Him.

 

[Irresistible]

That brings me back to my original point. Ask God what His plan is for your (not you in particular) life, that would also include His plan concerning your marital state. It saves you from waiting on marriage, being committed to someone who has no intention of marrying you or will end up falling for someone else or marrying someone unfit to be your husband in the first place.
Everyone should have their own relationship and own specific plan for their lives with God. If we are still being influenced by every wind and doctrine then we have bigger issues than finding a mate. Mixed signals should not influence a Christian. Seek God. He leads and guides us into all truths. Now whether or not we choose to follow and head His counsel will determine when and who we marry.

The waiting past the age of fertility is not the Lord's fault. Neither is the high rate of Christian divorce in this country. That's Christians fault. He can't force us to seek and obey Him.

Some of us take the long way, or the hard knocks way

 

[Bunny77]

That brings me back to my original point. Ask God what His plan is for your (not you in particular) life, that would also include His plan concerning your marital state. It saves you from waiting on marriage, being committed to someone who has no intention of marrying you or will end up falling for someone else or marrying someone unfit to be your husband in the first place.
Everyone should have their own relationship and own specific plan for their lives with God. If we are still being influenced by every wind and doctrine then we have bigger issues than finding a mate. Mixed signals should not influence a Christian. Seek God. He leads and guides us into all truths. Now whether or not we choose to follow and head His counsel will determine when and who we marry.

The waiting past the age of fertility is not the Lord's fault. Neither is the high rate of Christian divorce in this country. That's Christians fault. He can't force us to seek and obey Him.

Okay... I think the main point of disagreement between us isn't about seeking God and asking Him about His will for our lives. I know you were speaking in general in this post and not about what I've personally done, but I wanted to mention anyway that this is something that I have indeed done. I have not asked specifically, "Is it your will that I marry?" -- I explained my feelings on that earlier in the thread -- but I have asked of God, "What is your will for me in marriage?"

Since doing that, I have seen a lot of positive changes and have a completely different mindset about relationships and courtship. It is very much pro-marriage and pro-God's involvement in creating a healthy marriage, while that was not the case before I began doing so.

Anyway, my main point in this entire thread is that Christian churches and communities should be working on behalf of single women who desire to marry to help them toward Godly relationships that lead to marriage. I feel that is very much lacking and that's unfortunate, because it should be a part of more marriage ministries.

You are right that peoples' choices to have premarital sex or marry past fertility age is not the Lord's fault, but the fault of Christians. But I take that a step further and say that I also feel that it is the fault of Christian leadership for not taking a more proactive role to guide its members toward relationships and marriage that honor God so that women wouldn't have to marry so "late" that they ended up facing an expired fertility date or to reduce the temptation and opportunitty for sexual sin.

While I think that it's a good thing to recognize and honor permanent singles and those currently in a single state as full and contributing members of a church body (so as to prevent situations such as the one that FoxyScholar went through), I believe there needs to be more energy devoted toward mentoring and nurturing singles OUT of that state into marriage as well because the majority in that group DO want to be married and haven't been forbidden from doing so.

The church and the Christian community should be the first people working to help this happen. Teaching about contentment in one's alone state should not be the ONLY message they receive from churches and family.

Again, I recognize your disagreement and it is duly noted, but I felt the need to again make my position clear in case there were misunderstandings of where I stood.

 

[Irresistible]

Am I the only one that sees that what FoxyScholar went through as a process that she had to be broken to be put back together the right way, with right desires in God's order-which also then put her so much closer to be actually spiritually prepared for Marriage-and that the LORD was in that all along

That brokenness was necessary for her to ever be able to be in a healthy Godly Marriage, she had to see and know her worth in the LORD first (and solely) and not only connect that to a man and being married

she is blessed to have that IN her now

 

[TrendySocialite]

The more I read these posts the more I realize how truly gray this whole thing is. I made some things black and white and they are simply not that way in some people's minds.

Interpretation of Scripture has been an age old debate back to Jesus' time...so I guess I shouldn't expect it to be so different now (especially with so much knowledge and education people can gain).

Everyone's interpretation and life experiences really color how they relate to this thread.

Not to extend this out and cause more debate, but what about the story of Hannah? Hannah wept bitterly and openly for a child, so much so that the priest thought she was drunk. She had a full life but was tormented (internally and externally) by not having a child. After she prayed and petitioned God and promised to give her son back to Him, her womb opened and she was no longer barren and she gave birth to Samuel. Had she not prayed and made her petition known, would she have gotten pregnant? Or is there no correlation between the timing of her prayers and the timing of her pregnancy?

I guess what I'm saying is, this same scenario could be applied to marriage. If husbands and children are not a promise, then Hannah should not have prayed for them either. According to some of the logic in this thread, she should have been happy being Elkanah's wife and should have left well enough alone.

IMO, Hannah's story is one of being barren, broken but then being restored. I guess I'm not one to dictate how God restores, heals or fulfills. IMO, sometimes he does it on his own, some times he uses other people.

Ultimately just like it says in the Bible, his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than ours.

 

[Irresistible]

http://www.imeem.com/people/g8zya/music/tSBQLVWW/tdjakes_you_are_my_ministry/

 

[TrendySocialite]

http://www.imeem.com/people/g8zya/music/tSBQLVWW/tdjakes_you_are_my_ministry/

One of my favorite songs! That whole CD is fire!!!!

A praise dancer danced to this at my cousin's wedding....it was truly powerful!

 

[Ms.Honey]

This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.

Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability.

Personal relationship with the Lord. The church is not a dating service which needs to find husbands for single women. First y'all say,"I can marry whomever I want!" and "We don't need to be prepared or spiritually ready for a DH it should just happen.", "We don't have to change anything about ourselves or our walk!!!" then y'all say, "The church should be doing more to help me find a husband!" No, that's between each woman and God. We need to stop trying to put barriers between us and Him when it comes to this issue. We wouldn't want to marry who the church picked for us anyway

It's society's fault, black men's fault, the church's fault, everybody's fault but the black Christian woman who's been praying for a husband. Can't possibly be anything she's doing, not doing, her attitude, her assignment the Lord needs for her to complete before marriage etc. Nope, she's ready and been ready

BTW, Hannah ALREADY had a husband. When y'all come up with a woman who prayed so hard for a husband let me know. Another reason Hannah doesn't fit into this praying fervently for a husband reasoning is that finding a husband wasn't impossible for Hannah. An infertile woman having a baby IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! THAT'S why Hannah's prayer is so notable.

Not only did Hannah pray to the Lord for a baby, she promised to give the child to the service of the Lord when he turned seven and knew she would only see him once a year. Hannah's prayer changed. She stoppped praying to just have a baby, she prayed to have a baby and dedicated him to God's service. THAT'S why the Lord answered Hannah's prayer, not because she begged BUT because Hannah CHANGED what she was doing!!! She made a change that was pleasing to God. She changed when she returned home. Is anyone willing to make that sacrifice

The Lord heard her prayer and BLESSED Hannah and her husband with a son who the LORD needed for a particular purpose. He didn't just bless her with a son and said, "Okay, go on and have a happy life raising your son, He took Samuel and had Eli the SAME priest who heard her praying to raise as HIS son. If it was a promise then their wouldn't be any infertile Christian couples right?

Ladies who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying. If you are praying the same fruitless (infertile,barren) prayer as Hannah had, if you CHANGE you prayer and change you walk, God will answer it. ASK GOD if you need to change your prayer or change your way or if you are already in the place HE wants you to be.

 

[aribell]

Am I the only one that sees that what FoxyScholar went through as a process that she had to be broken to be put back together the right way, with right desires in God's order-which also then put her so much closer to be actually spiritually prepared for Marriage-and that the LORD was in that all along

That brokenness was necessary for her to ever be able to be in a healthy Godly Marriage, she had to see and know her worth in the LORD first (and solely) and not only connect that to a man and being married

she is blessed to have that IN her now

This is very much the way the Lord works. There isn't anything that we go through that He is not using for our betterment.

 

[PaperClip]

This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.

Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability.

Personal relationship with the Lord. The church is not a dating service which needs to find husbands for single women. First y'all say,"I can marry whomever I want!" and "We don't need to be prepared or spiritually ready for a DH it should just happen.", "We don't have to change anything about ourselves or our walk!!!" then y'all say, "The church should be doing more to help me find a husband!" No, that's between each woman and God. We need to stop trying to put barriers between us and Him when it comes to this issue. We wouldn't want to marry who the church picked for us anyway

It's society's fault, black men's fault, the church's fault, everybody's fault but the black Christian woman who's been praying for a husband. Can't possibly be anything she's doing, not doing, her attitude, her assignment the Lord needs for her to complete before marriage etc. Nope, she's ready and been ready

BTW, Hannah ALREADY had a husband. When y'all come up with a woman who prayed so hard for a husband let me know. Another reason Hannah doesn't fit into this praying fervently for a husband reasoning is that finding a husband wasn't impossible for Hannah. An infertile woman having a baby IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! THAT'S why Hannah's prayer is so notable.

Not only did Hannah pray to the Lord for a baby, she promised to give the child to the service of the Lord when he turned seven and knew she would only see him once a year. Hannah's prayer changed. She stoppped praying to just have a baby, she prayed to have a baby and dedicated him to God's service. THAT'S why the Lord answered Hannah's prayer, not because she begged BUT because Hannah CHANGED what she was doing!!! She made a change that was pleasing to God. She changed when she returned home. Is anyone willing to make that sacrifice

The Lord heard her prayer and BLESSED Hannah and her husband with a son who the LORD needed for a particular purpose. He didn't just bless her with a son and said, "Okay, go on and have a happy life raising your son, He took Samuel and had Eli the SAME priest who heard her praying to raise as HIS son. If it was a promise then their wouldn't be any infertile Christian couples right?

Ladies who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying. If you are praying the same fruitless (infertile,barren) prayer as Hannah had, if you CHANGE you prayer and change you walk, God will answer it. ASK GOD if you need to change your prayer or change your way or if you are already in the place HE wants you to be.

Ms.Honey:

I'm hearing (and reading) you.... It's a TOUGH PILL to swallow.... milk vs. meat.... and that's no diss on anybody, please understand.... but it is tough to wrestle with aligning one's will to the will of the Lord.... And that alignment may mean getting on the Lord's timeline about some things, for example.

Per what Irresistible and nicola.kirwan said: I wouldn't say the Lord broke me, but I broke myself by getting off track. But Romans 8:28 is STILL TRUE: "For we know all things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose."

What the devil meant for evil... meant to kill me, the Lord turned it around to work for good. And not even a half of the story of the good has been told....

To all: as some of the old folk say: Keep livin'.... and we'll understand it better by and by....

 

[Kiadodie]

I had been dodging this thread for a while.... But I feel a light compulsion to share....

As a person who has whined and prayed and cried about marriage.... and some of you have listened and prayed with me during my lamenting....

As a person who desires marriage, who has been PROMISED marriage, and who believes what the Word of the Lord says concerning marriage and continues to believe the Lord for the manifestation of that promise.... I ask this:

Is. God. Enough?

Yep... that's a tough question to swallow.

My DISCONTENT concerning marriage only increased as the years went by.... I left my 30s behind this past January 1. And it's NOTHING but the grace and mercy of the Lord that I'm here in my right mind. Yep. I was so consumed with marriage that the seeming lack of that was driving me STRAIGHT to the mental ward. Seriously. Name a book about singleness and marriage, I've either bought it or checked it out of the library or read an excerpt online. Sermons about singleness and marriage. Been there, done that. Singles conferences. Been there done that. I began to dread going to weddings. Hearing about weddings. Saw "older" single women (esp. in the church) and I cried out to the Lord to not let me "end up like them".

I was not living life. I was slowly dying inside because of the marital expectations of society, church, and family that was turning into a POISON in my spiritual and natural body.

So where am I right now? In a NEW PLACE...brand new. Liken it to a brand new house (re)built from the ground up. So it's time to put in new appliances, fixtures, etc. The Lord had to recover me and strip me of those INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL EXPECTATIONS AND PRESSURES about marriage that had CHOKED the life out of me.

The Lord has even stripped my expectations about what my husband may look like, or how he may enter my life, and all that. Do I have standards? Yes. But I had set the pedestal of marriage SO HIGH and thought that I couldn't REALLY LIVE and BE HAPPY until I got married. But the Lord is ministering to me in such a way in that ULTIMATELY, my hope, my joy, my peace, is in the Lord Jesus Christ; He is the author and finisher of my faith.

I read a quote that said "even a great husband makes a poor god".

So after I cry and lament, I think about how SERIOUS marriage is and I thank and praise the Lord for not giving me something I'm still being prepared for and that His TIMING is perfect.

May the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ settle in your hearts.

I have to tell you, your post really touched me. Yes, at one point..I was REALLY focused on marriage and finding a man too. Every book I got, every discussion I had became a thing about marriage and how to find a man and what I'm doing wrong..etc. It consumed me and the joy of life was sucked out of me.
God, finally took those "INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL EXPECTATIONS AND PRESSURES" from me too.

The Lord guided me to this scripture "Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart." Yes, I've read it PLENTY of times but this time it seemed like God was speaking to me directly.

As humans we tend to make things so complicated. But in my world now, things are very simple. I get my joy from Him alone and my expectations are from Him alone. I continue to pray for what I want, that's what His word says to do. Yet, as I pray I continue to trust in Him and not look at my circumstances.

 

[TrendySocialite]

We should dedicate all of our children back to the Lord....and all of our children can and should be used by God for His purpose.

Well I'll be interested to hear the thoughts on the book of Ruth and the development of Ruth's relationship with Boaz...since there only seems to be a handful who the Spirit of the Lord speaks to.

 

[Ms.Honey]

Ms.Honey:

I'm hearing (and reading) you.... It's a TOUGH PILL to swallow.... milk vs. meat.... and that's no diss on anybody, please understand.... but it is tough to wrestle with aligning one's will to the will of the Lord.... And that alignment may mean getting on the Lord's timeline about some things, for example.

Per what Irresistible and nicola.kirwan said: I wouldn't say the Lord broke me, but I broke myself by getting off track. But Romans 8:28 is STILL TRUE: "For we know all things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose."

What the devil meant for evil... meant to kill me, the Lord turned it around to work for good. And not even a half of the story of the good has been told....

To all: as some of the old folk say: Keep livin'.... and we'll understand it better by and by....

Thanks chica.
Sometimes we can't see the forest for all of the trees WE'VE planted. We have to check our emotions and realize that everyone is not out to get us and keep us from what we want. That's low self esteem and self pity talking. A woe is me victim mentality keeps us from moving forward and leaves us in a stagnant state or mind.

It was a hard lesson for me to learn. I used to think that God was against me when He changed my plans. Then I realized that He was just perfecting them. Now I always come to Him during my planning processes with great expectations.

It is milk vs. meat. Once we realize that He knows what will fulfill us more than we do we stop fearing His answers to our requests and gladly say, "Not my will but THY will be done because I KNOW you are about to hook me up with something fantastic!!"

 

[hopeful]

...
Ladies who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying. If you are praying the same fruitless (infertile,barren) prayer as Hannah had, if you CHANGE you prayer and change you walk, God will answer it. ASK GOD if you need to change your prayer or change your way or if you are already in the place HE wants you to be.

I really like how you put this.

 

[Shinka]

This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.

Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability.

Personal relationship with the Lord. The church is not a dating service which needs to find husbands for single women. First y'all say,"I can marry whomever I want!" and "We don't need to be prepared or spiritually ready for a DH it should just happen.", "We don't have to change anything about ourselves or our walk!!!" then y'all say, "The church should be doing more to help me find a husband!" No, that's between each woman and God. We need to stop trying to put barriers between us and Him when it comes to this issue. We wouldn't want to marry who the church picked for us anyway

It's society's fault, black men's fault, the church's fault, everybody's fault but the black Christian woman who's been praying for a husband. Can't possibly be anything she's doing, not doing, her attitude, her assignment the Lord needs for her to complete before marriage etc. Nope, she's ready and been ready

BTW, Hannah ALREADY had a husband. When y'all come up with a woman who prayed so hard for a husband let me know. Another reason Hannah doesn't fit into this praying fervently for a husband reasoning is that finding a husband wasn't impossible for Hannah. An infertile woman having a baby IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! THAT'S why Hannah's prayer is so notable.

Not only did Hannah pray to the Lord for a baby, she promised to give the child to the service of the Lord when he turned seven and knew she would only see him once a year. Hannah's prayer changed. She stoppped praying to just have a baby, she prayed to have a baby and dedicated him to God's service. THAT'S why the Lord answered Hannah's prayer, not because she begged BUT because Hannah CHANGED what she was doing!!! She made a change that was pleasing to God. She changed when she returned home. Is anyone willing to make that sacrifice

The Lord heard her prayer and BLESSED Hannah and her husband with a son who the LORD needed for a particular purpose. He didn't just bless her with a son and said, "Okay, go on and have a happy life raising your son, He took Samuel and had Eli the SAME priest who heard her praying to raise as HIS son. If it was a promise then their wouldn't be any infertile Christian couples right?

Ladies who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying. If you are praying the same fruitless (infertile,barren) prayer as Hannah had, if you CHANGE you prayer and change you walk, God will answer it. ASK GOD if you need to change your prayer or change your way or if you are already in the place HE wants you to be.

Hi Ms. Honey,

Not to offend, but I think you may be missing everyone's point, but you think everyone else is missing your point.

1) I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.

2)When people cite, the church, elders, etc....I ( i think most of us from what other posters have posted) are talking about guidance.


For example: I personally have received word from God, and It has been confirmed, that I would be Married in 5 years (this was from 2007), have 5 children each with a special gift. Now, I know in terms of prayers that numbers can be literally or abstract ( as in God's time). I say this to say...I don't worry about one day being married. I'm sure it will happen because of my spiritual experience.

My problem is discerning who to marry. Now I'm not saying I have all this marriage offers to go through. I have been married, divorced, and proposed to again.

Now, the man who proposed, and who I talked about recently in the Man/Child thread...didn't sit well with my Brother who is a Christian.

So when I say, I would like a Marriage Ministry or the church to guide me better. It's really about helping me to know what makes a good marriage and a good husband. I understand that everyone marriage and people are different, but I think they are some foundational basics that I am missing. I'm trying to learn them, but feel that I'm failing. Although I pray about and I read the scriptures, I still feel kind of lost. When my brother (whose been married for 12 years and is a devout Christian) tells me he's disappointed in my choice, but won't guide me on how to chose better, then I'm even more lost and frustrated.

Then I turn to books, forums, etc to try and learn. I'm 25...so I'm not in a rush and I'm working on the "other" parts of my life. But I feel i'm dumb is this area.

Yes, i read the bible. I have to work on attending church regularly, and I pray often. Maybe when I met the right man, God will "talk" to me or he'll lead me to understand those qualities. But it would be nice if people I know in this world could "guide" me. Show me some examples of ( by introducing or whatever way they are led to teach me this) a "man" they think may have the basic christian foundations to being a husband.

The other posters listed why this guidance may not be available or not even deemed important for singles.

3) I think and believe the women here are Christian women. As Christians, we know we have to grow and God will put things in our life so we can grow. So I think it's a bit offensive to say that "we" or rather I ( although, may not personally be speaking to me, but I think I should us "I" statements) aren't willing to ask God and work on ourselves, and that we all have this defensive air that there is nothing wrong with the Black Christian Women.

4) From your post, I think you are saying its solely the women who needs to change and pray for guidance. I think many of the posters are not necessarily opposing that, but are saying this issue is a bit more complex and has many other factors too it. We can control ourselves, but how do we have impact on the other factors? Factors that even if you are where the lord wants you to be, may not be in line so that it would lead to marriage ( Are we assuming God will get it all in place...? I'm really asking out of curiosity, not to be smart)

Or is part of "working on oneself" and God preparing one for marriage/motherhood consist of knowing the basics of what a GOOD Christian husbands looks like, knowing how to raise Christian Children, and knowing how to exhibiting love unconditionally etc... ???( I don't know the answer...so I ask you Ms.Honey, and more experienced ladies) What is ready? Maybe us Black Christian women don't know...but who is here to guide us? God, yes, but doesn't he work through our spiritual leaders, mothers and fathers as well as through us?

 

[Shinka]

Might be a topic for a new thread....but

Ms. Honey: "If they were promises all mankind would receive them. "

-I'm really confused by this statement and I don't think it negates the idea of promises.

As far as promises, blessings directives on marriage and motherhood:

Why would God direct us to do something, he didn't want us to do or make us incapable of doing? I hope that makes sense. Whether it's a blessing or promise, I think we need to assume he desires it for every women until God tells us otherwise. Don't we assume, well I do, that most of the directives in the bible, other than what is now consider Jewish Law, because Christ fulfilled the law, are directives for modern day Christians?


Also, the "go and be fruitful". God directed Abraham to be fruitful...but then blessed his barren with with a child. I think it's logical for most Christians to think that the term fruitful encompasses children.Therefore, we can think that part of being fruitful is planning for children which should only happen in marriage since we are directed to not fornicate. If God is tell me to do something in a larger christian sense, hasn't he already prepared me to do it? Shouldn't I only not expect it happen or pray about how it should happen until I'm led to believe otherwise?

Also, If we use Eve as an example of what God made women's role in the world...basically to toil during child labor, and desire her husband ( as in the context of this discussion). Now, he didn't say if you chose to have children and a husband. (my interpretation) I think God's promise is the ability for a women to marry and have children due to how God made us and what happened after the great fall.

However, with this idea, can God promise us anything? Everything is a choice because we have free will. Also, we all have sin. sin is in the world. Because of that, no one is in their pure "God created" form: we have genetic mutations etc.. God had promised by saying what our role is, however this may not "naturally" come to pass because this promise isn't guaranteed to be fulfilled due to sin in the world. On this premise, as Christians, we thank God for the blessing if it happens.

While GOD may have biologically promised this, he can lead us another way...( nun, celibacy,etc) as far as our role for God's work. God didn't also say that children and being "fruitful" had to come from biological children which may be why we can "mother" adoptive children, we have medical procedures that can help to have children etc...

Isn't part of being a Christian is to pray in Jesus' name as a way for us to allow God promises, words & truths to happen in the world, and to allow God to intercede those things in our personal lives (via Holy Spirit) in the earthly realm because GOD technically can't exert "his control" here because of the great fall and that he gave us free will? Which is way the saying Earth is the Devil's playground exist.( I know this is a off topic, maybe this can be explained in another thread)

 

[Irresistible]

Ms.Honey:

I'm hearing (and reading) you.... It's a TOUGH PILL to swallow.... milk vs. meat.... and that's no diss on anybody, please understand.... but it is tough to wrestle with aligning one's will to the will of the Lord.... And that alignment may mean getting on the Lord's timeline about some things, for example.

Per what Irresistible and nicola.kirwan said: I wouldn't say the Lord broke me, but I broke myself by getting off track. But Romans 8:28 is STILL TRUE: "For we know all things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to His purpose."

What the devil meant for evil... meant to kill me, the Lord turned it around to work for good. And not even a half of the story of the good has been told....

To all: as some of the old folk say: Keep livin'.... and we'll understand it better by and by....

Yeah this is what I mean

You ask something of the LORD , he knows there is something in you he needs to get out, or something he need to put in , or both , for him to even be able to give you what you asked, the right way, his way, he has to allow for your preparation , so indeed it was you, but he let (allowed) for you to not be quickly appeased outside of his will and your prayer, by not letting you find what it was you think you wanted/needed/had to have to not 'break' he let the breaking happen, to put you back together again

because yes, all things work together

and yes he is found by us when we are broken, he was in it that way is what I meant exactly

 

[Irresistible]

This all is really no joke

I stood for TEN years single and celibate and strong, then just as I was going through one of the darkest trials in my life, I met a man, he stood by my side through the end , I met him just before surgery, he stayed on the phone with me till I fell asleep just so I could sleep those days just before, we hadnt met in person yet, I was facing possible breast cancer, it was benign thank God, then a week or so after surgery we went out, had such a beautiful time, he held me and held and held me and wiped my tears, he gave me a reason to smile, he caught my tears over and over again over the loss of my friend to breast cancer just before my surgery, he gave me new things to look forward to, we just lived loved and laughed, , living mostly 'in the moment' which was easy to do after what I had just been through, we went everywhere together, I HAD JOY IN MY HEART AGAIN, I had LOVE, The first man in years that I KNEW WHEN I LOOKED INTO HIS EYES and in everything he did , there was actually LOVE, REAL LOVE, DEEP LOVE he cooked for me, took me on trips, gave me everything to look forward to again after I was knocked down so hard, LIFE AND LOVE WAS SWEET AGAIN, my soul was singing and smiling again, he was the wind beneath my wings when I was trying to fly again, he spoke faith and love into me again and faith in love, he became my soul sanctuary, my light in a dark world, my hope in love again, my only belief left, that God did it finally , finally blessed me with LOVE, after so many years alone , through so many battles and storms ,finally someone to hold me up and stand with me and that he did, I got sick and he took care of me, he spoke faith into me and strength over my body when I was weak, HE WOULD LITTERALLY BE IN TEARS AND PUT HIS HANDS ON ME AND SAY NOOO YOU ARE STRONG YOU HAVE STRENGTH, I COULD LITERALLY feel the my strength being restored bit by bit, he cooked healthy meals for me every day and even fed me, everybody loved him , my mother, my sister , my daughter, my brother in law spoke to me about him in the spirit that he knew that he was the one, we felt it , we knew it,

then came the tests and the trials and the battles and the storms and the fire and the crashing....crashing.....crashing

and we were just stuck in the aftermath when it was all said and done and our souls were wiped out with pain , just taking long hard looks at ourselves, like 'what have we done' and then WE TALKED, AND then we realized that for a year and half we just went on this whirlwind, and didnt really talk, we didnt know we didnt really talk though, untill we really started to and we had to talk, it was like 'I didnt even know you, but I didnt know I didnt know you' kind of thing, very strange feeling indeed those hours upon hours of talking and just learning so much about eachother

But I said all this to say this, after standing through so many battles alone and so strong, when he came , it was MY BLESSING

and when things went wrong, we wont even talk about the darkness, pain and depression and the weariness and the questioning God, I WAS BROKEN, I BLAMED HIM, I BLAMED GOD, I really really blamed God! I gave up! I crashed and didnt see a way back up again

But slowly through all the darkness and tearfllled nights and agony in my soul, God started to speak to me, and had me LOOK AT ME and my responsibilty/issues/fears leading to the destruction and pain, he also ministered to me about him, and slowly I watched , saw., and heard him doing the same things. looking at himself and understanding me

moral, even when you stand strong and wait and think you found him, and the wait is over, and you can EXHALE and just breathe again, he is NEVER GOING TO BE YOUR SAVIOUR, he is just a man

I too was broken to be put back together again , the right way, the way I was, I could NEVER have LOVED the way it should have been/should be and neither could he

 

[kayte]

This is like beating a dead horse, after this, I'm done.

I think this is an excellent idea
respectfully
imho ...guidance and leadership and godly counsel can cross a line
to control in the name of God

Personal accountability. Personal accountability. Personal accountability.

in the spirit of this..maybe the writer could look at this for herself....

 

[kayte]

This is very much the way the Lord works. There isn't anything that we go through that He is not using for our betterment

Am I the only one that sees

my post was...... while the experiences we have coalesce they don't necessarily correlate..
.in other words those experiences form the fabric of who we are...
it all comes together..yes...but in the context of my more recent post
which was living a realized life now..that life is markedly different than say...when I was four years old...
or pick any other passage in a woman's life...

to say ...what we went through before ... makes us who we are now
..well sure... I said/ noted that already

but keeping the focus in context.... ergo:..puberty is not the same as mature womanhood
even if that experience imprints on the mature woman
the author asserts ..love yourself now...
loving yourself at 40 is not the same as 14... is my point...
lol..for some us that maybe in question..

so I was confused how a different passage of age
an egocentric stage..of self would be posted to counter ...

I mean I can say... I loved myself at ten years old and was unbearable
my sibs could not stand me..which was true,btw
lol...as my response..yes that's valid and it is part of the spiritual journey
of evolving womanhood

but in response to the post of loving oneself...NOW
speaking to point of the mature woman wanting marriage
.....to me it doesn't seem germane to the topic



..maybe a side bar..I guess

anyways the author is talking about loving oneself at a mature age....and the arguement is..what..exactly ?

Frankly I'm puzzled
don't you want to have a happy life... now ..
geez

 

[ALWAYZL8]

It's all so confusing.

You're told to keep busy so you won't think about being single and hopefully in one of those activities maybe you'll meet someone.

Then you're told, don't be so busy that you don't have time to date.

It just seems singles are never doing the right thing.

Amen... I hear one or the other every other day from young and old. Why????????????

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Of course faith without works is dead, but acts/works not lead by God are fruitless and are just as dead

cant we believe while we are living and doing things, that God will bring it to pass, not we go make it happen in the sense of not being lead

like I might not feel like going to the store one night, but feel very lead to just do it, and might be set up for something when I do, Or I might be thinking I need to be here and there so that I DONT miss out and wear myself out with no fruit for any of it

its still all about being lead is what I am saying

I agree with that but we will never know G-d's will unless we act on something and working it out, we see His plan. That's what I meant about creation being a work in progress. It's not to negate G-d's sovereignty. I do think we often worry so much about what His will is, we don't act. Maybe His will is that we step out seeking in faith...only by taking steps (in whatever it is) do we arrive at the designated place. And I don't think that "fruitless" prayers have been properly and thoroughly explained in this thread. We only have our mind, experiences and hope so what's left is to act. Think Moses when they set out to leave. They never would have seen the miracles if they hadn't had it in their mind to leave. Yeah, that's a little simplistic in my explanation but that's the gist of it, I think

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Okay, point of clarification. Are you (/you all) saying that the culture affects our own views of marriage which requires that we act in particular ways to counter-act that influence, or are you saying that the cultural norms affect our chances of getting married, whether or not it's "God's will"?

I realize that your quote doesn't address all that, but it seems to be a question running under many of these posts.

I think that there are people who just up and find Mr./Mrs. Right standing there with an aura around them in neon light that reads..."Pick me, it's ordained!!!" That can surely happen. But for most people, they just need to get out there and meet people, esp. in courting for marriage. I think we need lots of experience meeting diff. types of potential partners as it makes for a more balanced individual. Just get out there and have fun in life and not take the marriage thing too seriously. Be sincere, but don't think every guy/girl coming your way is the one. There might be something G-d wants you or him/her to learn about others and about oneself in the process.

Yes, I think that religious are much more affected by the popular culture they live in more than they realize. I see that disrespect for people is at an all-time high and marriage is not exempt and cloistered away being protected from it. Marriages are made up of real people. Christians are real people...they are not mini g-ds, they are not preserved from harm anymore than others, not IMHO. They are live and in the flesh like everybody else. Christian marriages, religious marriages from whichever faith are seriously under attack because of the culture in which we live.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

There was one particular thread that cut me very deep on this point...that I should be ashamed that my parents contribute to my life at this age. If only they knew the whole story...my Good Lord....

I haven't read it and not sure now I want to but from knowing you online, I can say...you deserve an honorary Jewish award!!! Your parents are still very important and you listen to their wisdom

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

And since as it has been said here that we are all Christians, what about the thousands upon thousands of Catholic sisters who the Lord has called to remain unmarried? Some are moms, divorced and widowed but I believe most have never married (a Catholic sister can better answer that) are THEY lying on God?
What about sisters who never wanted to marry and those who wanted to marry but never have children but the Lord instructed them to?
the Lord NOT a promise. If they were promises all mankind would receive them.

You mean nuns? They are married, to Christ lol. It's a certain ceremony of induction and they are married to Him. It's part of their vocation and certainly, they made the choice through free will. There are historical accounts of women who became religious (nuns) and their families did not desire that choice at first...they wished them to marry. Free choice. All along, G-d knew who would come and who wouldn't. Some turn away from it.

I also wanted to say concerning the culture of marriage and how it's evolved, in the past, it wasn't necessarily about love but to maintain the social order. Women are so very emancipated these days...self-sufficient, and we are looking for the love mate, not nec. to follow through with what is expected culturally, even this is waning in very traditional societies and countries. Our culture and mind have changed our opinion on the value of marriage.


Incidentally, my little one asked me about nuns and why they weren't married. I told him that, yes, they are married but to Jesus. He looked at me and started thinking lol. "But if nuns marry Jesus, what about priests, they can't marry Jesus."