Assignment about abortion

[HeChangedMyName]

Ladies, I had an assignment to complete about my view of abortion. This was a tough one. I know all the scriptures about why abortion is wrong. But I also know how scripture can be used to disprove or prove just about anything. In the end of my assignment, God led me to this scripture from Romans 14:


1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.


I feel like if you believe in Jesus as your Lord and saviour and I do to, as long as we are doing our best and then some in order to remain on the righteous path(yes, righteousness is a path), then we should encourage one another through it all. No need to get caught up in the disputable issues that the world puts on the news.

 

[momi]

When did a baby become a "disputable matter"?

A disputable matter is - whether or not you will eat meat, circumcision, or maybe even the gift of tounges -

Abortion is wrong - according to biblical law and should be illegal in man's law. No one has the right to kill another human being period.

There is no difference in killing an unborn baby and killing your neighbor period. A woman has the right to chose not to get pregnant - and God forbid in the case if rape adoption is still better than murder any day.

I am a mother, if ever presented with the choice to choose between either of their lives and mine there would be NO question who I would choose.

 

[song_of_serenity]

When did a baby become a "disputable matter"?

A disputable matter is - whether or not you will eat meat, circumcision, or maybe even the gift of tounges -

Abortion is wrong - according to biblical law and should be illegal in man's law. No one has the right to kill another human being period.

There is no difference in killing an unborn baby and killing your neighbor period. A woman has the right to chose not to get pregnant - and God forbid in the case if rape adoption is still better than murder any day.

I am a mother, if ever presented with the choice to choose between either of their lives and mine there would be NO question who I would choose.

Exactly. I'm confused, OP, what point are you making?
~*Janelle~*

 

[HeChangedMyName]

The point that I was making is that for me, while doing the assignment I got the opportunity to recognize that I would be judging someone for having an abortion. God showed me this scripture that called me out. It is easy to judge someone for something that is different that what you believe is right. Any issue that has two arguments or more is disputable.

True, murder of any form is wrong, the Bible says so, but from the scripture that I listed, it is not my place to judge anyone for the choices that they make. Moses was a murderer but God still used him. He didn't toss him aside in the reject pile, so how is it that we think we can trump God and just toss people into a pile that says they are wrong for making a decision that they felt was right "at the time". David was a murderer too, he killed had Bathsheba's husband killed, but look at the awesome work that God did through him.

I agree that the first choice that a woman needs to make on the issue should be to not get pregnant in the first place if she is not willing, ready, and able. But if life was that easy then none of us would ever make poor decisions and therefore we wouldn't learn from our experiences.

Premarital sex is a sin too, should we just toss all the unmarried non-virgins into the pits of hell along with the abortionist and women who have chosen to abort? The first part of that scripture says to accept him whose faith is weak. If a person makes any decision that is against the Bible, but they feel that it was justified for some reason, then I take that as a sign that their faith is weak and it is my place to accept them, not punish or condemn them. That's all I'm saying. If it were up to us, shoot, all of us would be going to hell for some reason(s) or another, but thankfully as Christians we have Jesus to thank for our salvation, not one another.

 

[cutiebe2]

The point that I was making is that for me, while doing the assignment I got the opportunity to recognize that I would be judging someone for having an abortion. God showed me this scripture that called me out. It is easy to judge someone for something that is different that what you believe is right. Any issue that has two arguments or more is disputable.

True, murder of any form is wrong, the Bible says so, but from the scripture that I listed, it is not my place to judge anyone for the choices that they make. Moses was a murderer but God still used him. He didn't toss him aside in the reject pile, so how is it that we think we can trump God and just toss people into a pile that says they are wrong for making a decision that they felt was right "at the time". David was a murderer too, he killed had Bathsheba's husband killed, but look at the awesome work that God did through him.

I agree that the first choice that a woman needs to make on the issue should be to not get pregnant in the first place if she is not willing, ready, and able. But if life was that easy then none of us would ever make poor decisions and therefore we wouldn't learn from our experiences.

Premarital sex is a sin too, should we just toss all the unmarried non-virgins into the pits of hell along with the abortionist and women who have chosen to abort? The first part of that scripture says to accept him whose faith is weak. If a person makes any decision that is against the Bible, but they feel that it was justified for some reason, then I take that as a sign that their faith is weak and it is my place to accept them, not punish or condemn them. That's all I'm saying. If it were up to us, shoot, all of us would be going to hell for some reason(s) or another, but thankfully as Christians we have Jesus to thank for our salvation, not one another.

ITA
God is the only judge

 

[HeChangedMyName]

ITA
God is the only judge

Yes, he is. And I am a formerly EXTREMELY judgemental person. I would just a cat for walking across the street to fast. I prayed about it and everyday, I thank God for moving me further and further away from my old ways of judging and condemning people. After all, for some people, the only experience they have with God, is through the followers of God and in that moment, we can make or break their spirit by the way we treat them, How do we look, coming in the name of Jesus, with a Bible in one hand, and a shovel in the other hand, preparing to dig the graves of all the people who we cross and we don't approve of their ways and decisions.

You can catch more flies with sugar than vinegar

Well, we can also win more souls with love than hate

 

[song_of_serenity]

The point that I was making is that for me, while doing the assignment I got the opportunity to recognize that I would be judging someone for having an abortion. God showed me this scripture that called me out. It is easy to judge someone for something that is different that what you believe is right. Any issue that has two arguments or more is disputable.

True, murder of any form is wrong, the Bible says so, but from the scripture that I listed, it is not my place to judge anyone for the choices that they make. Moses was a murderer but God still used him. He didn't toss him aside in the reject pile, so how is it that we think we can trump God and just toss people into a pile that says they are wrong for making a decision that they felt was right "at the time". David was a murderer too, he killed had Bathsheba's husband killed, but look at the awesome work that God did through him.

I agree that the first choice that a woman needs to make on the issue should be to not get pregnant in the first place if she is not willing, ready, and able. But if life was that easy then none of us would ever make poor decisions and therefore we wouldn't learn from our experiences.

Premarital sex is a sin too, should we just toss all the unmarried non-virgins into the pits of hell along with the abortionist and women who have chosen to abort? The first part of that scripture says to accept him whose faith is weak. If a person makes any decision that is against the Bible, but they feel that it was justified for some reason, then I take that as a sign that their faith is weak and it is my place to accept them, not punish or condemn them. That's all I'm saying. If it were up to us, shoot, all of us would be going to hell for some reason(s) or another, but thankfully as Christians we have Jesus to thank for our salvation, not one another.

I understand what you're saying. However, there's a big difference between loving the sinner/hating their sin and acceptance. It's not JUDGING if you're doing it by the word of God. It simply means that don't judge unless you expect to be judged by the same standards. God can and will use anyone he sees fit. No one should mistreat or HATE a person because of what they've done. But I'm not surely going to sit here and act as if it's all good to have them continuing in sin. And stating beliefs about abortion/ANYTHING that falls out of the will of God surely isn't JUDGING. Everything is to be done in love, yes. All things. But God loves us all and best believe He will send us straight to hell for living out of his will. I believe in love and also letting truth be KNOWN. It's not what you do, it's how you do it. Picketing saying "GOD HATES YOU ABORTIONISTS/GAYS/ETC won't do it. But coming in love and yet letting them know of their sins is not judging. I see too many people take the extremes of either side.
~*Janelle~*

 

[HeChangedMyName]

I understand what you're saying. However, there's a big difference between loving the sinner/hating their sin and acceptance. It's not JUDGING if you're doing it by the word of God. It simply means that don't judge unless you expect to be judged by the same standards. God can and will use anyone he sees fit. No one should mistreat or HATE a person because of what they've done. But I'm not surely going to sit here and act as if it's all good to have them continuing in sin. And stating beliefs about abortion/ANYTHING that falls out of the will of God surely isn't JUDGING. Everything is to be done in love, yes. All things. But God loves us all and best believe He will send us straight to hell for living out of his will. I believe in love and also letting truth be KNOWN. It's not what you do, it's how you do it. Picketing saying "GOD HATES YOU ABORTIONISTS/GAYS/ETC won't do it. But coming in love and yet letting them know of their sins is not judging. I see too many people take the extremes of either side.
~*Janelle~*

ITA, especially with the part in bold. I think people confuse judging a person's sin and helping them correct it, with judging a person and condemning them. I know I use to be very guilty of this. People give Christianity a bad rep when they use God as an excuse to hate others for whatever reason.

 

[momi]

Folks who have not even cracked open a bible all seem to enjoy the portion of the bible that advises us not to judge. The theme from beginning to the end is to not judge:

1. If you are guilty of sin and have not repented (repented in the form of turning from your wicked ways)
2. Not to judge an un-believer because God will take care of that.
3. To make sure that we use righteous judgement.

We as the church seem to have been "duped" into thinking if we call sin sin that we are "passing judgement". There are several occasions in the New Testament where we are cautioned to not only judge immorality, but in 1 Corinthians 5 and 1 Timothy 1 - Paul turned folks over to satan because of immorality.
Many are scared to speak against unrighteousness because we are afraid that skeletons don't come falling out of our closets and that is the truth.

That we are not to judge and speak against unrighteousness is one of the most effective lies that satan has used to hinder the gospel (IMHO).
If you see your sister or brother in Christ about to make a right turn, and on that street there is a flood would you allow them to continue knowing they could fall off. No - you would scream as loud as you could to prevent them from death. It is the same thing with unrighteousness - trust me I know for I have been a recipient of the scream!

There are consequences for immorality and we must do our part as believers to help one another in love to save our souls.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

momi, you are on fire and on point this evening. I wish more pastors spoke on the need to correct the righteous as oppose to accepting any and everything that goes on in the church. A Sin is a Sin and if you are saved, and still constantly living in sin, then you need help. Who better to help you than someone who is on your same path to righteousness.

As for the unbeliever, we can't do anything about them except pray for them that they find the Lord. When I first joined the church I attend, one of the first Bible studies was about how we as a body ought to keep each other in line in a Biblical way. As Christians, I confess to you that I am struggling with a sin, then you would help me through it, not condemn me. Or if you saw me doing something that was totally out of line with the Word, then by all means correct me.

I stopped going to church at one time when I was younger because I had a lady who I think tried to help, but went about it ALL wrong. She kept inviting me to go to church with her. I was not having it, because it would interfere with my after-club sleep, instead of explaining to me how important spiritual feeding was and fellowshiping, she just told me that I was destined for hell if I didn't go to church with her. I was like. . . .lachen:. thought she was a fool and never got the opportunity to go to her church although it is a great church.

 

[song_of_serenity]

Folks who have not even cracked open a bible all seem to enjoy the portion of the bible that advises us not to judge. The theme from beginning to the end is to not judge:

1. If you are guilty of sin and have not repented (repented in the form of turning from your wicked ways)
2. Not to judge an un-believer because God will take care of that.
3. To make sure that we use righteous judgement.

We as the church seem to have been "duped" into thinking if we call sin sin that we are "passing judgement". There are several occasions in the New Testament where we are cautioned to not only judge immorality, but in 1 Corinthians 5 and 1 Timothy 1 - Paul turned folks over to satan because of immorality.
Many are scared to speak against unrighteousness because we are afraid that skeletons don't come falling out of our closets and that is the truth.

That we are not to judge and speak against unrighteousness is one of the most effective lies that satan has used to hinder the gospel (IMHO).
If you see your sister or brother in Christ about to make a right turn, and on that street there is a flood would you allow them to continue knowing they could fall off. No - you would scream as loud as you could to prevent them from death. It is the same thing with unrighteousness - trust me I know for I have been a recipient of the scream!

There are consequences for immorality and we must do our part as believers to help one another in love to save our souls.

Very VERY true!! And even worse, according to Ezekiel 3:18, if they sin and we turn a blind eye to it and don't warn them and THEY die in THEIR sins, their blood is on OUR hands.

It seems in this day and age, a falling away is happening and the word speaks of it. Even Christians are sugar coating the word and walking on eggshells so as to not "upset" the world and not be seen as closeminded. Thus saith the Lord, then Thus saith the Lord. He's the same yesterday, today AND forever and weather they like it or not, that is His word and it will remain unchanged. Thousands upon thousands are dying everyday and lifting their eyes in hell. Our purpose is to tell them about Jesus and the good news. If they accept it, wonderful. If not, they don't. We do our duty and keep it moving. We shouldn't ever be afraid to tell them God's word in fear of "judging" them. I'd rather they say "You're judging me!!" and have that seed planted than having them standing before God and that's the TRUE judgement.
And the final one at that.

I never liked when people say "ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME!" I think..."If you end up in the position where GOD is judging you, don't you know where your end will be?"
~*Janelle~*

 

[NGraceO]

WOW. This thread is phenomenal. All you made some wonderful points. Also, I love ow all of you take each persons points and objections in love, and don't get offended, Because learning from each other is what its all about. ITA with all of the points made, especially Moma's last one...woah. However, I've also found that it matters not only what you say, but how you say it. I'm with Supernova who said she is a delivered serial judger, because I am too, and through that I have found that pointing out someone else's sin whether they be saved or not, is a very difficult thing. It requires perfect timing, and it ALWAYS has to come out of love. As we know, the results may not always be favorable, but I think timing and love are key also....

 

[kayte]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNova
The point that I was making is that for me, while doing the assignment I got the opportunity to recognize that I would be judging someone for having an abortion. God showed me this scripture that called me out. It is easy to judge someone for something that is different that what you believe is right. Any issue that has two arguments or more is disputable.

True, murder of any form is wrong, the Bible says so, but from the scripture that I listed, it is not my place to judge anyone for the choices that they make. Moses was a murderer but God still used him. He didn't toss him aside in the reject pile, so how is it that we think we can trump God and just toss people into a pile that says they are wrong for making a decision that they felt was right "at the time". David was a murderer too, he killed had Bathsheba's husband killed, but look at the awesome work that God did through him.

I agree that the first choice that a woman needs to make on the issue should be to not get pregnant in the first place if she is not willing, ready, and able. But if life was that easy then none of us would ever make poor decisions and therefore we wouldn't learn from our experiences.

Premarital sex is a sin too, should we just toss all the unmarried non-virgins into the pits of hell along with the abortionist and women who have chosen to abort? The first part of that scripture says to accept him whose faith is weak. If a person makes any decision that is against the Bible, but they feel that it was justified for some reason, then I take that as a sign that their faith is weak and it is my place to accept them, not punish or condemn them. That's all I'm saying. If it were up to us, shoot, all of us would be going to hell for some reason(s) or another, but thankfully as Christians we have Jesus to thank for our salvation, not one another.

ITA
God is the only judge

Me,too. Co-signing on both.
I admire and relate only to well to self-righteous or well-intentioned judging....I look to Christ as my example when I am confused in the area of discerment and/or speaking my truth..in love

I've been the judge and quick to do it,too....and I've been the judged...

Thank you OP for a sensitively opening dialogue to an important topic.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

WOW. This thread is phenomenal. All you made some wonderful points. Also, I love ow all of you take each persons points and objections in love, and don't get offended, Because learning from each other is what its all about. ITA with all of the points made, especially Moma's last one...woah. However, I've also found that it matters not only what you say, but how you say it. I'm with Supernova who said she is a delivered serial judger, because I am too, and through that I have found that pointing out someone else's sin whether they be saved or not, is a very difficult thing. It requires perfect timing, and it ALWAYS has to come out of love. As we know, the results may not always be favorable, but I think timing and love are key also....

This is true, and because there is no way to gauge where a person is in their walk of faith, we have to be able to know enough to differentiate whether or not we are judging because a person is doing something that we don't like or whether they are doing something that the Bible strictly prohibits. We also have to practice not only reading the Bible, but reading it for interpretation and understanding, because there are issues that are relevant today that were not mentioned specifically in the Bible. At the same time, there are some things mentioned in the Bible that do not apply the same today. For example cutting off the hand of a thief. That doesn't happen nowadays. This is a very good discussion. I was hoping it would be like this, I didn't want it to be a discussion about pro-choice vs. pro-life. I want us to look at the issue for what it is and be able to understand how to deal with people who deal with abortion. In my class, which is all Christian people, you can tell that some of the people are use to dealing with abortion from a pro-life- vs. a pro-choice stance and that is all. But in my own reality, there are people who I know that have had abortions and they struggle with the decisions that they made. One person went as far as to name the babies(yes it was twins). her abortion was for medical reasons, but it didn't make the choice any easier than for the other person I know who had a abortion for more selfish reasons. Either way, I know from reading the Word, that it is not up to me to say oh, you were wrong, horrible, you're a murderer and you are going to Hell. No, it is up to me to say, next time, "DONT GET PREGNANT if you are not ready to be. It is murder, but what is done is done and you can't take it back. Ask for God's forgiveness and repent. Don't get caught up in doing it again." And then that should be the end of it. I feel where the pro-lifers come from when they picket outside these clinics. They have the right intentions, but I think they sometimes go about it the wrong ways. They try to guilt people out of abortion, but don't offer any reasoning, other than pictures of aborted babies.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Very VERY true!! And even worse, according to Ezekiel 3:18, if they sin and we turn a blind eye to it and don't warn them and THEY die in THEIR sins, their blood is on OUR hands.

It seems in this day and age, a falling away is happening and the word speaks of it. Even Christians are sugar coating the word and walking on eggshells so as to not "upset" the world and not be seen as closeminded. Thus saith the Lord, then Thus saith the Lord. He's the same yesterday, today AND forever and weather they like it or not, that is His word and it will remain unchanged. Thousands upon thousands are dying everyday and lifting their eyes in hell. Our purpose is to tell them about Jesus and the good news. If they accept it, wonderful. If not, they don't. We do our duty and keep it moving. We shouldn't ever be afraid to tell them God's word in fear of "judging" them. I'd rather they say "You're judging me!!" and have that seed planted than having them standing before God and that's the TRUE judgement.
And the final one at that.

I never liked when people say "ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME!" I think..."If you end up in the position where GOD is judging you, don't you know where your end will be?"
~*Janelle~*

I love that you brought in the quote in bold. I think some people in the Church are so afraid of having someone elses blood on their hands, that they run and jump the gun and end up doing things in an unrighteous way. Like Kayte mentioned, we are to judge righteously. If we don't judge rigtheously, then we can be guilty of the sin of being self-righteous, as demonstrated in this example that Jesus gave of the Pharisees and the tax collectors.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Then [Jesus] told this story to some who boasted of their virtue and scorned everyone else: "Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a proud, self-righteous Pharisee, and the other a cheating tax collector. The proud Pharisee 'prayed' this prayer: 'Thank God, I am not a sinner like everyone else, especially like that tax collector over there! For I never cheat, I don't commit adultery, I go without food twice a week, and I give to God a tenth of everything I earn.' "But the corrupt tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed, but beat upon his chest in sorrow, exclaiming, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner.' I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home forgiven! For the proud shall be humbled, but the humble shall be honored." [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](TLB, Luke 18:9-14)[/FONT]


We have to make sure that we don't get caught up like the Pharisee in being self righteous. When I discovered I had a problem with this sin, I thought I would just die. I was really struggling with how to be righteous without being self righteous and someone pointed me toward this scripture. That was the beginning of my turn from self-righteousnes(((not saying that it is totally purged, because sometimes I do have to check myself on it, but I recognize it now, when it rears it's ugly head)))

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Kayte, you are looking to the right place. Think of the example of the woman caught in adultery and brought out in the streets by the people to be stoned. When Jesus came on the scene, he didn't care about who, what, when, why, or where she was caught. After he had dealt with her accusers, he loved her. She knew she was wrong, he told her not to do it again, and to go on about her business. Once we let someone know that they are in sin, all we need to do after that is to love them, and let them go. Like someone said in this thread, we have done our duty of planting the seed, now it is up to them to chose to live by God's Word or not. Their blood is no longer on our hands. It doesn't take badgering a person until they think all Christians are self-righteous, and relentless in our approach to gain souls.