Has anyone seen the "African Hair Growth Parameters" study??
- Thread starter whitedaisez
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I am confused... Slower growth rate does not mean your hair cant grow. We know our hair can grow, we have so many examples on here... but the difference is what other races take for granted we need to work harder and be patient to get it. I mean , last year I was able to retain a reasonable growth by being more gentle and dedicating more time to my hair, but my Indian guyanese neighboor had twice as much growth by doing nothing than washing her hair with Pantene poos and cons, and nothing else. No Protective Styles, no DC, no frequent Cowashes, no moisturizers...she knows nothing about Ayurvedic hair care, nothing. Same goes for her other sibblings and friends as well.
silvergirl
Well-Known Member
i still think its a retention issue not a growth issue. we see it all the time at the salon. new clients come in. not knowing what to do with their hair. their hair never grows im talking 4a, 4a/b an 4b clients. yet after months of care their hair gets going and they surpass the "longest length in their life".
we see it on this board, i saw it with my hair. . so nope.. not buying it.
disclaimer: i DO know that there will be people that fall below the average and will have a slower growth rate regardless of race. however i dont believe that we as black ppl have a horribly slower growth rate than everyone else on this planet....
we see it on this board, i saw it with my hair. . so nope.. not buying it.
disclaimer: i DO know that there will be people that fall below the average and will have a slower growth rate regardless of race. however i dont believe that we as black ppl have a horribly slower growth rate than everyone else on this planet....
Junebug D
Well-Known Member
Your siggie looks like convincing-enough proof to me! Awesome progress!
*sorry, didn't mean to hijack
*
Really ??? I've whitnessed the opposite
. I have so many friends from West and Central Africa, and what I saw is another story. Anyways, I am not a specialist on African hair care, so I better let them talk for themselves. Unfortunately you cant read french, I'd have directed you to some hair boards where black people (from all origins, relaxed or natural) are convinced that a black woman (4a-4b) with SL hair (yes SL) is certainly a weave. That is unfortunate but they dont know better since they have never been able to grow their hair longer than that for different reasons. You'd have had a hard time proving that your beautiful Fro is really yours TT, I am telling you
Eluv
Active Member
Based on my surrounding growing up in predominately white schools, college, and now work (always the only AA).
IMO non-AA can shampoo wash, blow dry and flat-iron their hair daily and their hair will still grow at and above the average growth rate. It may not always be healthy, and honestly I’ve only seen unhealthy hair on non-AA when they over bleach it.
Where as we AA can't torture our hair like that, well not if you we want long healthy hair. We can grow our hair long with better care, still just not as fast as non-AA.
So why wouldn’t I believe on average AA hair grow at a slower rate.
IMO non-AA can shampoo wash, blow dry and flat-iron their hair daily and their hair will still grow at and above the average growth rate. It may not always be healthy, and honestly I’ve only seen unhealthy hair on non-AA when they over bleach it.
Where as we AA can't torture our hair like that, well not if you we want long healthy hair. We can grow our hair long with better care, still just not as fast as non-AA.
So why wouldn’t I believe on average AA hair grow at a slower rate.
I am west african (from senegal) and it is true that people do not have much hiar there. But I am convince it is due to the water, environment, braids that are too tight, etc.
I lived a few years in Ivory coast (still west africa), and women have much thicker and longer hair there (they don't do braids as much, and the weather is different there.
Since I have moved in North america, my hair is much longer and thicker. i I have cut it to 2in at least 5 times the past 10 years and I am at neck lenght again (last time I cut was in Nov). My daughter (100% african, but born and raised here) is 7 and she has mid back hair. I have never seen that in Senegal. And I do not do anything special with her hair at all. Just wash and condition weekly, and cornrows.
I lived a few years in Ivory coast (still west africa), and women have much thicker and longer hair there (they don't do braids as much, and the weather is different there.
Since I have moved in North america, my hair is much longer and thicker. i I have cut it to 2in at least 5 times the past 10 years and I am at neck lenght again (last time I cut was in Nov). My daughter (100% african, but born and raised here) is 7 and she has mid back hair. I have never seen that in Senegal. And I do not do anything special with her hair at all. Just wash and condition weekly, and cornrows.
Well, maybe not a freak, but you might be towards the end of the bell curve or a statistical outlier. If you're getting 8" a year, you are anyway, regardless of race. Sometimes it's good to be an outlier.
I posted a link to a whole bunch of articles of this ilk a while back. I don't know, I suspect this is true, but I also suspect it's not a big enough difference to keep the average black woman from having fairly long hair if she's careful about her retention.
btw, Plenty of native Africans have just as bad hair care practices as AAs, even if natural. I blame it primarily on brutal combing with no lubrication.
See my Indian neighboor (mid 40s and +) cut her hair at earlengh in Dec, and she is currently on her way to BSL...honestly I can not beat that
Our definition of good growth is different from a race to another. I am not saying some people in here can't have such growth, but it is very rare, but for them it is normal growth. Mind you, those Indian people are also included in the average of 1/2" per month...
tocktick
Well-Known Member
Really ??? I've whitnessed the opposite
Unfortunately you cant read french, I'd have directed you to some hair boards where black people (from all origins, relaxed or natural) are convinced that a black woman (4a-4b) with SL hair (yes SL) is certainly a weave. That is unfortunate but they dont know better since they have never been able to grow their hair longer than that for different reasons. You'd have had a hard time proving that your beautiful Fro is really yours TT, I am telling you
@ bold: thanks :Rose:.
I think those women on your French board are just like many LHCF'ers before they found the boards. They did not believe that black women could grow long hair because they've never achieved it themselves and those around them have the same bad practices keeping them at NL and shorter. I remember having a similar thought process myself
. I'm not negating your own observations but I see too many women here achieving lengths that they've never had before in a relatively short amount of time on here, Nappturality, Youtube and Fotki. Even if I take myself and my family out of the equation and focus only on those who know how to take care of their hair, I see too many women of African descent with hair that grows a significant amount from year to year to think that our hair just grows abnormally slow (even in "perfect" conditions).
When I see people on here who have been here for a while yet don't have long hair, it seems their hair is either breaking or they keep cutting, both of which have nothing to do with how much your hair is capable of growing.
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silvergirl
Well-Known Member
Thanks!Your siggie looks like convincing-enough proof to me! Awesome progress!
*sorry, didn't mean to hijack
whitedaisez
Active Member
See my Indian neighboor (mid 40s and +) cut her hair at earlengh in Dec, and she is currently on her way to BSL...honestly I can not beat that
OMG at the bolded. I know. This is EXACTLY why i made the thread. I wasn't satisfied that the half inch included ALL races. I mean, an Indian with half inch per month? :scratchchSERIOUSLY. i want studies, GENUINE ones, on specifically AFRICAN HAIR.
tocktick
Well-Known Member
^^ Asian hair tends to be thicker and stronger than other hair types. There are more cuticle layers than Caucasian hair and African hair has the least layers. Imo, I think how resistant the hair is to breakage is what mainly accounts for how much length we are able to retain. I believe it can be 1/2" per month. I lived with an Asian man for about 9-10 months and whilst his hair grew significantly (and he retained more than me) from the time we met, his growth was not extraordinary.
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@ bold: thanks :Rose:.
I think those women on your French board are just like many LHCF'ers before they found the boards. They did not believe that black women could grow long hair because they've never achieved it themselves and those around them have the same bad practices keeping them at NL and shorter. I remember having a similar thought process myself
I'm not negating your own observations but I see too many women here achieving lengths that they've never had before in a relatively short amount of time on here, Nappturality, Youtube and Fotki. Even if I take myself and my family out of the equation and focus only on those who know how to take care of their hair, I see too many women of African descent with hair that grows a significant amount from year to year to think that our hair just grows abnormally slow (even in "perfect" conditions).
When I see people on here who have been here for a while yet don't have long hair, it seems their hair is either breaking or they keep cutting, both of which have nothing to do with how much your hair is capable of growing.
Slower, yes. Abnormally slow, I dont know about that one. And even, assuming those people have bad hair care practices without knowing them is a bit rough
But we'll take it graciously since that the way it goes in the lhcf world, not in ours fortunately 
On a more positive tone, those people certainly have different hair care practices, some good, some not that good I guess. Overall I am not knowledgeable enough on hair care to judge them. Just because my hair grows fast according to board's standards, I won't assume that those who cant grow as fast as me are doing something wrong, it is probably just nature. You can help nature a little bit, but at the end you have to live with it. My sisters are slow growers, they are both natural and have good hair care pratices, but still they are slow growers. They are very intelligent women who know what they are doing and I help them as much as I can in their journey. Personally, I find it very arrogant when people on boards automatically think that people with short hair just have bad hair care practices. What if those people really cant grow hair longer than that. That is not the case for everybody, but that might happen, and I know a lot of cases like that ... let's keep an open mind please
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Kurlee
Well-Known Member
my take is that, our hair does not grow any slower than anyone else. RETENTION is the problem. It took me a long time to understand this. If our hair grew so slowly, then tell me why almost everyone I know who is relaxed cannot stretch beyond 12 weeks because the "new growth is out of control?". These studies do not take into account differences in hair care practices, texture and that African hair is not monolithic. I will continue to ignore these studies, until they dig deeper and truly critically analyze what makes our hair "different". I'm not buying it.
i dont know that i agree with the study, specifically the part where they say that the growth is slower than the caucasion counterparts. my reasoning for this is because i was under the impression that most ppl's hair regardless of race/ ethnicity grew on average about 1 half inch per month. ours curls while theirs is just shooting out of the scalp. the differences in that alone point to a false perception ( of longer hair for the the straight haired subject--- though that really may not be the case) scrutiny has to be placed on the dynamics of how both types of hair differ.
as far as retention is concerned that's a whole nother monster. i would have to agree with the earlier poster who said that it might be that, the study is more relavant to growth retention. and the scientist may not even be aware of the difference. especially if they are basing thier claims on how much hair one ended up with @ the end of the study. because as we all know the perpetual dryness of our hair causes it to break. showing a seaming lack of growth.
as far as retention is concerned that's a whole nother monster. i would have to agree with the earlier poster who said that it might be that, the study is more relavant to growth retention. and the scientist may not even be aware of the difference. especially if they are basing thier claims on how much hair one ended up with @ the end of the study. because as we all know the perpetual dryness of our hair causes it to break. showing a seaming lack of growth.
Keen
Well-Known Member
who are these "some people" and where are these "many in here"?? and how does this thread suggest the bolded? I am looking for specific info on BLACK hair ONLY not because I dont think it grows but because I think most of the "scientific hair facts" we know have been tested MAINLY on non-black hair. But in NO WAY am I suggesting that African hair can't grow. NOT AT ALL. and I dont think av said anything on this thread that would make you think this.
Excuse me Ma'am but I did not say you said anything. You simply posted an article. I read it and made by infrence. I insinuated that AA hair grows slower than caucasions. I did not say AA hair can't grow nor did anyone here ever said that.
I based my opinion on being in this board for 5 years and seeing this topic discussed many many times. I was actually glad to see a study that suggest the average growth rate for AA and caucasians are not the same.
BeautifulFlower
Well-Known Member
That was a garbage study!
MonPetite
New Member
That means you MUST have Asian in you.
You are ten kinds of wrong for this.
On a more serious note, I do wish we'd stop this line of thinking.
It's disrespectful to those who do have "Asian" ancestry and rather defeatist/ignorant in mindset (in that having non-African blood is somehow a boon to growth, "good hair", length and so forth and not having it means you'll have a rougher hair journey -supposedly).
I'm not saying you're disrespectful(!!), just thinking aloud. I do have a Comanche great-grandmother (and her picture to prove it, yes).
Does that count? LOL
Well, maybe not a freak, but you might be towards the end of the bell curve or a statistical outlier. If you're getting 8" a year, you are anyway, regardless of race. Sometimes it's good to be an outlier.
I posted a link to a whole bunch of articles of this ilk a while back. I don't know, I suspect this is true, but I also suspect it's not a big enough difference to keep the average black woman from having fairly long hair if she's careful about her retention.
btw, Plenty of native Africans have just as bad hair care practices as AAs, even if natural. I blame it primarily on brutal combing with no lubrication.
Co-sign.
I still want to see a well conducted study, though. I vaguely remember the articles you mentioned. What I can't remember is if they had any of the major failings this one does. Though I have a feeling, if you thought them decent enough to post, they couldn't be anywhere near as erroneous as this one.
As round and around as these discussion often go (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, many thought provoking statements have been made and I have enjoyed this thread), I too, think it comes down to the difficulty we have with retention in relation to our hair care practices and how the majority of us does not let its hair remain in its natural state.
That's not to say that those who relax are doing something wrong, but chemicals can complicate things when you do not know how to care for chemically-altered hair...which takes us right back to the need for the correct hair care practices to retain length.
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Keshieshimmer
Active Member
Please that study would take YEARS, when you deal with people, they may up and disappear on you and probably lie about what they do to their hair. But it maybe fun to go to Africa periodically...
whatever that is why I work with bacteria they can't go MIA on you or talk back to you.
specially if you are not paying for it lol.Please that study would take YEARS, when you deal with people, they may up and disappear on you and probably lie about what they do to their hair. But it maybe fun to go to Africa periodically...
whatever that is why I work with bacteria they can't go MIA on you or talk back to you.
But then you have to go to the lab at 2am on saturday night to check on your incubator's temp and count them haha
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
see, the thing is, the only way you could actually track something like this is if you dyed the black person's hair and the white person's hair the same colour and then measure the roots in intervals, maybe? While being mindful that the curly haired people, blacks included, hair would have to be stretched to accurately measure the growth based on the different colour. The person in the study would have to be mindful of this, as to not skew their study and they would have to measure growth from the roots only, instead of overall length after a period of time. What a crappy, invalid, unreliable study.
Junebug D
Well-Known Member
I was just about to write that! that's the only way I would take one of these studies seriously. If they adaquately controlled for retention & texture; and the only way i can think of that being done is the application of hair dye. And then straightening (with heat or chemicals-- not merely stretching because that still leaves kinks in the strand) the new growth for everyone with curly hair. Until I see a study that has adaquately controlled for those 2 things, I can't take it seriously as a "hair growth" study.
tocktick
Well-Known Member
Slower, yes. Abnormally slow, I dont know about that one. And even, assuming those people have bad hair care practices without knowing them is a bit rough
On a more positive tone, those people certainly have different hair care practices, some good, some not that good I guess. Overall I am not knowledgeable enough on hair care to judge them. Just because my hair grows fast according to board's standards, I won't assume that those who cant grow as fast as me are doing something wrong, it is probably just nature. You can help nature a little bit, but at the end you have to live with it. My sisters are slow growers, they are both natural and have good hair care pratices, but still they are slow growers. They are very intelligent women who know what they are doing and I help them as much as I can in their journey. Personally, I find it very arrogant when people on boards automatically think that people with short hair just have bad hair care practices. What if those people really cant grow hair longer than that. That is not the case for everybody, but that might happen, and I know a lot of cases like that ... let's keep an open mind please
I did not mean to make you defensive as I did not intend for any parts of my posts to come off as mean, arrogant, rude or narrow-minded.
Please be aware that I wasn't trying to insult people who had slow growing hair (I only get about 1/4" to 1/2" myself, so it would be nonsensical to do so). Furthermore, I can understand it taking 4-5 years to go from neck length to BSL - that's slow growth but not abnormally so. However, from presumably near bald (as a baby) to neck length in over 10 years with a solid regimen? I don't see many people like this and this is indeed what I classify as abnormally slow. Now if their terminal length is NL, that's a different story. No disrespect to the teens you mentioned who are like this. Still, I do not believe they are representative of people of all or even most people of African descent. This was really my point all along.
For those with slow growth, it says nothing about their ability to retain length or how they treat their hair. Unlike retention, there is not a whole lot that one can do to change their growth rate.
I didn't really lambast anyone's regimen or call anyone's hair practices out. Nor do I think anyone is stupid or lazy if their hair happens to grow from their scalp slower. Imo, on this board if you've had very short hair for years (without cutting) you're more likely to have breaking hair or damaged. I say this because people like this usually ask for help and get results later on. My hair is not growing as fast as yours, as is the case with many people here. I questioned how well cared for those 12-14 y/o girls hair was because I think it was logical for me, having had no other facts, to first question that instead of just assuming their hair simply did not grow that much (or even at all). When people IRL tell me their hair doesn't grow, after some questioning the answer usually turns out to breakage due to a so-so regimen or how they handle their hair. Hence, why I mentioned hair care could be a factor contributing to their length. My question was never meant to be a sly dig.
As you said, I do not know those girls hence why I asked about their haircare (amongst other things) instead of merely assuming. Once you cleared things up, I accepted your answers as fact. I mentioned my own observations merely to show that I didn't think their growth rate was common amongst people of African descent even if that was the reality for them. The intent wasn't never to make you seem like a liar. That would be far more than I am willing to invest in this place.
I hope this has cleared up my thoughts and I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
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No problem TT, I am not mad at you Darling
I am just surprised that some people on the boards dont beleive some of our people are just slow growers. And I agree, on top of that they may have retention problem as well due excessive manipulation. A friend of mine (man) shaves his hair every year and he has a very short afro at the end of the year to play with (about 1" unstretched, or less than 3" when stretched). He barely touches his hair on a daily basis, wash and go every day or so. He is very happy with it though since he doesnt have to spend much time and money at the barbershop
SweetSpirit86
New Member
My only thing is this. Whether it was measured from the scalp, or if it were a retention study. Irregardless...HOW are they keeping track? With less breakage from caucasoid hair, I would think it would be easier to track. However with african hair...if it's breaking off...how do you know if it's new hair or not? Are they like...banding it or something? @_@ I think I'm confusing myself....
My only thing is this. Whether it was measured from the scalp, or if it were a retention study. Irregardless...HOW are they keeping track? With less breakage from caucasoid hair, I would think it would be easier to track. However with african hair...if it's breaking off...how do you know if it's new hair or not? Are they like...banding it or something? @_@ I think I'm confusing myself....
I may be wrong but I think for those kinds of studies they would simply shave a small section of the head to start from scratch and measure the growth routinely. That is the way I'd do it anyways...
Y
I still want to see a well conducted study, though. I vaguely remember the articles you mentioned. What I can't remember is if they had any of the major failings this one does. Though I have a feeling, if you thought them decent enough to post, they couldn't be anywhere near as erroneous as this one.
Hey, I take no accountability for the well-foundedness of those studies! *washing hands* I just posted the info for people to go do their own research and draw their own conclusions.
I agree with Kurlee that dying would be the best way. I wonder why they didn't do that.
MonPetite
New Member
Hey, I take no accountability for the well-foundedness of those studies! *washing hands* I just posted the info for people to go do their own research and draw their own conclusions.
I agree with Kurlee that dying would be the best way. I wonder why they didn't do that.
LOL!
Okay, understood, m'dear! I love your avi, by the way.
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