Pastors: Differences between being a shepherd and a leader

[PaperClip]

I thought this would make for interesting conversation because I believe that this year the Lord wants to reconnect His believers via the local church body. In other words, He wants us to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together (Hebrews 10:25). In another thread (http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=186107&highlight=church) , I noted that going to church on a regular consistent basis is something that believers should do because Jesus did it (Luke 4:16).

At church today, my pastor preached/taught about the difference between a leader and a shepherd, using Saul (1 Samuel 22) and David (1 Samuel 17) as examples. He said that a shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. A leader, charismatic and bold and tall and strong as he/she may be, does not lay down his life for the people. In fact, Saul killed innocent people (incl. a number of priests). A true shepherd would not kill the sheep. My pastor also noted scriptures of how Jesus called Himself the "good shepherd" (John 10:11-12).


"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep."
So the church that you are attending, belong to, or if you are a pastor or in training for pastoral leadership: is the pastor a shepherd or (just) a leader?

 

[Caramela]

We have a good group of shepherds in our congregation. I can truly say that they are there to teach and guide the people with love and kindness. That sounds like an interesting sermon though, very thought provoking

 

[tatje]

Hey RelaxR,

I don't know if I am going to answer this question right, but to me there are no shephards. For the Lord is my only shepherd. Just like it says in the book (I can't remember where), like the sheep know the shepherd's voice, so will God's people know his. The Lord created me, embedded right from wrong in my heart and knows how to reach me as I know how to reach him, so if I am truly his choosen one I will no my Lord to which he speaks through someone or just to me.

For my Paster on the other hand, I see him as a leader but really a scholar of action. One who has studied the word and can make connections and yes is called on by the Lord. He is extremely beneficial to the people of God in the sense he delivers a message that you may have needed or may not have seen the way you read something. He is an awakening and to be an example. Yet he is still human so when he falls he knows how to call on the Lord and get back up. And look to him as an example. Whenever I get a message outside of the church whether in reading or just talking with someone else, I know that this message is from the Lord my shepherd, not from the pastor. The paster doesn't send me messenges, he is just the deliver and the way he delivers the message is just as important.

The shepherd in my eyes never falls. For he is Lord. The Lord (Shepherd) gives the message and the pastor delivers making him a scholar in action/one of the many side kicks.

Sidenote: This doesn't make the pastor an less important. For he is truly important. He is a supplement and very impartive. Just like you have a text book and then you have books that aid you to understand the text book.

I just thought about it and thought to myself if the shepherd is the one who does the calling, the who is calling on the pastors? My answer would be the Lord, so I really wouldn't be able to see how the pastor would be a sheperd as he is being called upon.

Just my Opinion.....

 

[alexstin]

Hey RelaxR,

I don't know if I am going to answer this question right, but to me there are no shephards. For the Lord is my only shepherd. Just like it says in the book (I can't remember where), like the sheep know the shepherd's voice, so will God's people know his. The Lord created me, embedded right from wrong in my heart and knows how to reach me as I know how to reach him, so if I am truly his choosen one I will no my Lord to which he speaks through someone or just to me.

For my Paster on the other hand, I see him as a leader but really a scholar of action. One who has studied the word and can make connections and yes is called on by the Lord. He is extremely beneficial to the people of God in the sense he delivers a message that you may have needed or may not have seen the way you read something. He is an awakening and to be an example. Yet he is still human so when he falls he knows how to call on the Lord and get back up. And look to him as an example. Whenever I get a message outside of the church whether in reading or just talking with someone else, I know that this message is from the Lord my shepherd, not from the pastor. The paster doesn't send me messenges, he is just the deliver and the way he delivers the message is just as important.

The shepherd in my eyes never falls. For he is Lord. The Lord (Shepherd) gives the message and the pastor delivers making him a scholar in action/on of the many side kicks.

Sidenote: This doesn't make the pastor an less important. For he is truly important. He is a supplement and very impartive. Just like you have a text book and then you have books that aid you to understand the text book.

I just thought about it and thought to myself if the shepherd is the one who does the calling, the who is calling on the pastors? My answer would be the Lord, so I really wouldn't be able to see how the pastor would be a sheperd as he is being called upon.

Just my Opinion.....

Why do you think the scriptures say that the elders should shepherd the flock? Just curious.

In response to the OP I do believe that I am called to be a shepherd in this sense: 1Pet 5:2-3 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to {the will of} God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

The people that are apart of the ministry here are not my sheep. They are the Lord's and we(Dh and I ) are to respect them as such. Personally I hate to hear Pastors call members in their congregation "my sheep". I believe when pastors lose sight that these people are not "theirs" a door may be opened for possible spiritual abuse.


We are only caretakers of what God has given us.

 

[tatje]

Why do you think the scriptures say that the elders should shepherd the flock? Just curious.

In response to the OP I do believe that I am called to be a shepherd in this sense: 1Pet 5:2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to {the will of} God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;

The people that are apart of the ministry here are not my sheep. They are the Lord's and we(Dh and I ) are to respect them as such. Personally I hate to hear Pastors call members in their congregation "my sheep". I believe when pastors lose sight that these people are not "theirs" a door may be opened for possible spiritual abuse.


We are only caretakers of what God has given us.

Girl, I have no idea. I didn't think about that. Now, I may have to readjust my thinking and really listen to the Lord's answer for this.

I just always believed that the Lord is my shepherd and what better shepherd then him.

 

[tatje]

Why do you think the scriptures say that the elders should shepherd the flock? Just curious.

In response to the OP I do believe that I am called to be a shepherd in this sense: 1Pet 5:2-3 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to {the will of} God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

The people that are apart of the ministry here are not my sheep. They are the Lord's and we(Dh and I ) are to respect them as such. Personally I hate to hear Pastors call members in their congregation "my sheep". I believe when pastors lose sight that these people are not "theirs" a door may be opened for possible spiritual abuse.


We are only caretakers of what God has given us.

Just thought about it and thought it to mean that the elders are to bring and gather people to the Lord, especially through experience and testimony. I may be wrong. Yet would that make you a shepherd if your gathering people toghether for the Lord? I may not have the definition of shepherd right. From my understanding a shepherd takes care of his herd and knows who his is and not. I don't know if a pastor would know that. I just see a pastor as a shepherd's assistant. The middle man.

I can again be wrong but either way everyone's job is important and I wouldn't want to undermine God's calling to someone or their responsiblity.

 

[PaperClip]

Hey RelaxR,

I don't know if I am going to answer this question right, but to me there are no shephards. For the Lord is my only shepherd. Just like it says in the book (I can't remember where), like the sheep know the shepherd's voice, so will God's people know his. The Lord created me, embedded right from wrong in my heart and knows how to reach me as I know how to reach him, so if I am truly his choosen one I will no my Lord to which he speaks through someone or just to me.

Yes, we are all to have our own, personal relationship with the Lord. And the Lord speaks to us about our lives and what we're supposed to do and help us personally as well. Yes...Absolutely. And the Lord has also instructed us to come together as with a gathering of believers (e.g., a church with a pastor), so that we can build each other up in the faith and also to be under watch care (to watch for our souls) just as a natural shepherd tends to a natural flock of sheep. It's the same point.


I'd like to note two sets of scriptures that speak to the appointing of "shepherds" to the people of the Lord: one Old Testament reference and one New Testament reference.

Old Testament reference: Would you agree that the Lord appointed Moses to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt? That would make Moses a type of "shepherd" to the "flock" of Hebrews, yes? I refer to Numbers 11, where Moses kindly asked the Lord to KILL HIM for the burden of the people was getting too great. The Lord instructed Moses to appoint 70 elders to help him deal with the thousands of people. Numbers 11:16-17 "God said to Moses, "Gather together seventy men from among the leaders of Israel, men whom you know to be respected and responsible. Take them to the Tent of Meeting. I'll meet you there. I'll come down and speak with you. I'll take some of the Spirit that is on you and place it on them; they'll then be able to take some of the load of this people—you won't have to carry the whole thing alone." (The Message)

New Testament reference: Paul, another type of "shepherd" who went and preached the gospel and established churches and appointed pastors to watch and guide and be responsible, if you will, for the proper functions of that church in those areas. Paul was one person. He couldn't be everywhere at one time, so he appointed pastors (shepherds) over the various locations. So at one point, he assigned Timothy to watch over that particular congregation, noting that Timothy will "naturally care for your state" (Philippians 2:20).

For my Paster on the other hand, I see him as a leader but really a scholar of action. One who has studied the word and can make connections and yes is called on by the Lord. He is extremely beneficial to the people of God in the sense he delivers a message that you may have needed or may not have seen the way you read something. He is an awakening and to be an example. Yet he is still human so when he falls he knows how to call on the Lord and get back up. And look to him as an example. Whenever I get a message outside of the church whether in reading or just talking with someone else, I know that this message is from the Lord my shepherd, not from the pastor. The paster doesn't send me messenges, he is just the deliver and the way he delivers the message is just as important.

The shepherd in my eyes never falls. For he is Lord. The Lord (Shepherd) gives the message and the pastor delivers making him a scholar in action/on of the many side kicks.

Sidenote: This doesn't make the pastor an less important. For he is truly important. He is a supplement and very impartive. Just like you have a text book and then you have books that aid you to understand the text book.

Just my Opinion.....

If you would so allow, please allow me to respond to your statements and offer another perspective....

Allow me to clarify my use of the word "shepherd". The scripture you are referring to is Psalm 23:1: "The Lord is my shepherd". Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is the "great shepherd" (Hebrews 13:20)....and so in comparison to the earthly men who (are called to) pastor churches, they are referred to as "shepherds" (sometimes my church uses the word "undershepherd" to the "Great Shepherd" (Lord Jesus Christ). So yes, there's is only one Shepherd, but metaphorically speaking, we, the body of Christ, believers, are referred to as "sheep" who need a "shepherd" or pastor, to lead and guide the Lord's flock.

I noted this in the link to the other thread about regular church attendance but I'll note again here: Luke 4:16: "He came to Nazareth where he had been reared. As he always did on the Sabbath, he went to the meeting place. When he stood up to read, he was handed the scroll of the prophet Isaiah" (The Message). If Jesus went "as he always did on the Sabbath" to go to the meeting place...the synagogue, the church, so shouldn't we?

My other responses are above in purple. Peace be unto you and glad to have you here!

 

[tatje]

If you would so allow, please allow me to respond to your statements and offer another perspective....

Allow me to clarify my use of the word "shepherd". The scripture you are referring to is Psalm 23:1: "The Lord is my shepherd". Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is the "great shepherd" (Hebrews 13:20)....and so in comparison to the earthly men who (are called to) pastor churches, they are referred to as "shepherds" (sometimes my church uses the word "undershepherd" to the "Great Shepherd" (Lord Jesus Christ). So yes, there's is only one Shepherd, but metaphorically speaking, we, the body of Christ, believers, are referred to as "sheep" who need a "shepherd" or pastor, to lead and guide the Lord's flock.

I noted this in the link to the other thread about regular church attendance but I'll note again here: Luke 4:16: "He came to Nazareth where he had been reared. As he always did on the Sabbath, he went to the meeting place. When he stood up to read, he was handed the scroll of the prophet Isaiah" (The Message). If Jesus went "as he always did on the Sabbath" to go to the meeting place...the synagogue, the church, so shouldn't we?

My other responses are above in purple. Peace be unto you and glad to have you here!

Thanks RelaxR,

I now see what it is you and Alex is trying to get at me. I understand a shepherd with undershepherds as it is called. Thank you for the example because those thoughts didn't come to mind when answering this question. These people do try to guard our hearts and with love. Thanks

 

[tatje]

If you would so allow, please allow me to respond to your statements and offer another perspective....

Allow me to clarify my use of the word "shepherd". The scripture you are referring to is Psalm 23:1: "The Lord is my shepherd". Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is the "great shepherd" (Hebrews 13:20)....and so in comparison to the earthly men who (are called to) pastor churches, they are referred to as "shepherds" (sometimes my church uses the word "undershepherd" to the "Great Shepherd" (Lord Jesus Christ). So yes, there's is only one Shepherd, but metaphorically speaking, we, the body of Christ, believers, are referred to as "sheep" who need a "shepherd" or pastor, to lead and guide the Lord's flock.

I noted this in the link to the other thread about regular church attendance but I'll note again here: Luke 4:16: "He came to Nazareth where he had been reared. As he always did on the Sabbath, he went to the meeting place. When he stood up to read, he was handed the scroll of the prophet Isaiah" (The Message). If Jesus went "as he always did on the Sabbath" to go to the meeting place...the synagogue, the church, so shouldn't we?

My other responses are above in purple. Peace be unto you and glad to have you here!

Would it be safe to say that Paul is like the superindentent of schools and the Principles in that district are shepherds?

I still feel only comfortable in calling God my shepherd. I think that's a big title and responsibility. Yet I completely think I understand what you mean in a cycle of responsibility here with humans.

 

[PaperClip]

Would it be safe to say that Paul is like the superindentent of schools and the Principles in that district are shepherds?

I still feel only comfortable in calling God my shepherd. I think that's a big title and responsibility. Yet I completely think I understand what you mean in a cycle of responsibility here with humans.

Um...maybe...but there's a reason that the Lord uses the sheep/shepherd symbol to describe the priest/pastor/people relationship. A superintendent of schools wouldn't risk his life for the students. A true shepherd does sacrifice for the people, just like Jesus did (but of course not on the same level).

I agree with you that these earthly pastors should not be called shepherd as a title, but there FUNCTION is that of a shepherd. Even Jesus made it clear that He Himself is the GOOD shepherd (St. John 10:11), the GREAT SHEPHERD (Hebrews 13:20). So even with that, I don't think we are completely out of line by referring to pastors as "types of" shepherds.

I quote Psalm 23 EVERY DAY: The Lord is my Shepherd (uppercase "S") versus the earthly pastor who is a "type of" shepherd (lowercase "s").

 

[tatje]

Um...maybe...but there's a reason that the Lord uses the sheep/shepherd symbol to describe the priest/pastor/people relationship. A superintendent of schools wouldn't risk his life for the students. A true shepherd does sacrifice for the people, just like Jesus did (but of course not on the same level).

I agree with you that these earthly pastors should not be called shepherd as a title, but there FUNCTION is that of a shepherd. Even Jesus made it clear that He Himself is the GOOD shepherd (St. John 10:11), the GREAT SHEPHERD (Hebrews 13:20). So even with that, I don't think we are completely out of line by referring to pastors as "types of" shepherds.

I quote Psalm 23 EVERY DAY: The Lord is my Shepherd (uppercase "S") versus the earthly pastor who is a "type of" shepherd (lowercase "s").

I Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[PinkPebbles]

Hey RelaxR,

I don't know if I am going to answer this question right, but to me there are no shephards. For the Lord is my only shepherd. Just like it says in the book (I can't remember where), like the sheep know the shepherd's voice, so will God's people know his. The Lord created me, embedded right from wrong in my heart and knows how to reach me as I know how to reach him, so if I am truly his choosen one I will no my Lord to which he speaks through someone or just to me.

For my Paster on the other hand, I see him as a leader but really a scholar of action. One who has studied the word and can make connections and yes is called on by the Lord. He is extremely beneficial to the people of God in the sense he delivers a message that you may have needed or may not have seen the way you read something. He is an awakening and to be an example. Yet he is still human so when he falls he knows how to call on the Lord and get back up. And look to him as an example. Whenever I get a message outside of the church whether in reading or just talking with someone else, I know that this message is from the Lord my shepherd, not from the pastor. The paster doesn't send me messenges, he is just the deliver and the way he delivers the message is just as important.

The shepherd in my eyes never falls. For he is Lord. The Lord (Shepherd) gives the message and the pastor delivers making him a scholar in action/one of the many side kicks.

Sidenote: This doesn't make the pastor an less important. For he is truly important. He is a supplement and very impartive. Just like you have a text book and then you have books that aid you to understand the text book.

I just thought about it and thought to myself if the shepherd is the one who does the calling, the who is calling on the pastors? My answer would be the Lord, so I really wouldn't be able to see how the pastor would be a sheperd as he is being called upon.

Just my Opinion.....

ITA with your post! I will only call the Lord my shepherd....with the way things are going in this day and age, people better know God for themselves and know His voice! Just my humble opinion.

 

[PaperClip]

This scripture came to mind regarding this topic:

Hebrews 13:17 (The Message)
"Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?

Verse 18: "Pray for us. We have no doubts about what we're doing or why, but it's hard going and we need your prayers. All we care about is living well before God."

 

[PaperClip]

ITA with your post! I will only call the Lord my shepherd....with the way things are going in this day and age, people better know God for themselves and know His voice! Just my humble opinion.

Hopefully you have had an opportunity to read the other posts to get clarification and deeper understanding regarding the use of the word "shepherd" and its application with regard to earthly pastorship.