Prejudice in Your Multicultural Church

[Guitarhero]

Well, barely multi-racial. Do you experience it? If so, how do you deal with it? Do you push it under the cover? Do others point to the problem being your own ethnic group and you take offense or do you attempt to understand the person discussing it? If you experience prejudice where you worship, what are your suggestions? Find another? Ignore the several for the majority? What about the kids?

ETA:edited to not obscure the questions.

 

[Guitarhero]

So, I take it that no one else? Are most people in a segregated congregation (not negatively, just one ethnic -dominated)?

 

[Laela]

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[SND411]

I believe most people hide their prejudices in the church. I can tell because I can sense fakeness from a mile away.

 

[SUPER SWEET]

I go to an all black church. But could you give me an example....cause I think of things like
-people sitting all on side of the church
-different types of choirs all the same race with different styles of singing
-the events cater to one group
-the food choices


Just curious....

 

[Guitarhero]

Example...


We are catholic. We kneel during parts of the service and when you do, you are close, hovering practically over the person in front of you. I've noticed several people moving their purses when they turned around and saw us a behind them. Why was it ok for the purse to be opened and beside them without fear until they saw us?

We also give the sign of peace to each other after the Our Father. I've had some people pretend they didn't see us. Some others have given the very tips of their fingers and you could tell they felt disgust. There was one who moved before the Our Father but came back right before the consecration of the host (eucharist) which is after giving the sign of peace.

I've honestly never noticed this much discomfort in my former parish. Another incident...a Rwandan guy was sitting pretty much alone on 1/2 bench and this white person came in late, could have sat right on his bench with much space between them but chose to squeeze in behind. They didn't acknowledge the people where they sat as family. I don't think they knew them at all. You could tell the Rwandan kinda looked back like .

There is the truth and there are the friends of Jesus. I have the truth, I just have to rub shoulders with His friends. erplexed And it's not so easy just changing congregations...my kids attend the parochial school. Well, someone I confided in on a public forum tried to say she was tired of some people placing the blame on one race of people since this is a humanity problem and that we have individual rights and shouldn't be forced communally to basically "love one another." Bulls.....

 

[SND411]

Example...


We are catholic. We kneel during parts of the service and when you do, you are close, hovering practically over the person in front of you. I've noticed several people moving their purses when they turned around and saw us a behind them. Why was it ok for the purse to be opened and beside them without fear until they saw us?

We also give the sign of peace to each other after the Our Father. I've had some people pretend they didn't see us. Some others have given the very tips of their fingers and you could tell they felt disgust. There was one who moved before the Our Father but came back right before the consecration of the host (eucharist) which is after giving the sign of peace.

I've honestly never noticed this much discomfort in my former parish. Another incident...a Rwandan guy was sitting pretty much alone on 1/2 bench and this white person came in late, could have sat right on his bench with much space between them but chose to squeeze in behind. They didn't acknowledge the people where they sat as family. I don't think they knew them at all. You could tell the Rwandan kinda looked back like .

There is the truth and there are the friends of Jesus. I have the truth, I just have to rub shoulders with His friends. erplexed And it's not so easy just changing congregations...my kids attend the parochial school. Well, someone I confided in on a public forum tried to say she was tired of some people placing the blame on one race of people since this is a humanity problem and that we have individual rights and shouldn't be forced communally to basically "love one another." Bulls.....

LOL! These people can't even FAKE it.

I have experienced some of these things too. Like people will purposely never turn around to give you the sign of peace. What are they trying to prove?

 

[Guitarhero]

Their germs are holier. There are many more examples...sigh.

 

[SND411]

Their germs are holier. There are many more examples...sigh.

Tell them. Because I think I experience this too.

 

[aribell]

I'm glad to be able to say that I have worshiped regularly in Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Southern Baptist, Anglican, non-denominational, Apostolic, Holiness, Assemblies of God...most of which were majority white, some majority black, a few genuinely diverse, and I have always been made to feel welcome and appreciated. "The Church" as it were, has been very good to me.

 

[anartist4u2001]

Example...


We are catholic. We kneel during parts of the service and when you do, you are close, hovering practically over the person in front of you. I've noticed several people moving their purses when they turned around and saw us a behind them. Why was it ok for the purse to be opened and beside them without fear until they saw us?

We also give the sign of peace to each other after the Our Father. I've had some people pretend they didn't see us. Some others have given the very tips of their fingers and you could tell they felt disgust. There was one who moved before the Our Father but came back right before the consecration of the host (eucharist) which is after giving the sign of peace.

I've honestly never noticed this much discomfort in my former parish. Another incident...a Rwandan guy was sitting pretty much alone on 1/2 bench and this white person came in late, could have sat right on his bench with much space between them but chose to squeeze in behind. They didn't acknowledge the people where they sat as family. I don't think they knew them at all. You could tell the Rwandan kinda looked back like .

There is the truth and there are the friends of Jesus. I have the truth, I just have to rub shoulders with His friends. erplexed And it's not so easy just changing congregations...my kids attend the parochial school. Well, someone I confided in on a public forum tried to say she was tired of some people placing the blame on one race of people since this is a humanity problem and that we have individual rights and shouldn't be forced communally to basically "love one another." Bulls.....

wowwwwwwwww, that's messed up!

 

[Guitarhero]

I'm glad to be able to say that I have worshiped regularly in Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Southern Baptist, Anglican, non-denominational, Apostolic, Holiness, Assemblies of God...most of which were majority white, some majority black, a few genuinely diverse, and I have always been made to feel welcome and appreciated. "The Church" as it were, has been very good to me.

Pittsburgh, PA...I'd like to replace the "pi" with "sh."

 

[Guitarhero]

One obvious one is staring you down at the Boyscout meeting...as though you had mistakenly taken the wrong entrance...cuz the Black folx go elsewhere. And when they realize you are there for a reason, stare even more. LOL! Until they get used to you and then they give you 100 questions. Don't look different, they will ask you a=z what you are but NEVER reciprocate. I don't tell them anyway. Or you show up at the first communion and those whose kids don't attend the school but public, look very very shocked or concerned. How about assuming you live in the Black part of town ahahaha! Oh, "are you a cradle catholic?" I'd get this at synagogue so I knew it immediately as the "how are you Jewish" but "catholic" questioning. Last, but not least, "oh, I know if they aren't catholic and are visitors...they won't take communion...seee...she didn't take it. I feel better knowing they aren't one of us now." No, lady, I didn't take communion cuz I accidentally killed the last nosy busybody and have yet to confess my mortal sins.

 

[aribell]

Pittsburgh, PA...I'd like to replace the "pi" with "sh."

You know, I happen to have several friends out there at Trinity School for Ministry. One of them is biracial and writes and speaks about racial reconciliation within the church. She has complained that people are very, hmm...(non-progressive, naive, complacent?)...not sure the right word. But yes, certain places have more problems than others.

Do you ever feel uncomfortable yourself in these contexts?

 

[Prudent1]

I have and currently do attend a church made of more then one ethnic group. Sometimes AAs have been the majority and at some other churches I belonged to they were not. Yes, I have experienced some before. It used to bother me far more than it does now a days. Especially when the kids were little. Now, it is no different than having one of those types of experiences outside of the church. Now I fully understand the best place for a person in need of medical intervention is a hospital. Likewise, the best place for those in desperate spiritual need is the church. I think I would likely have some sort of feelings if this attitude of separation was reflected from the top. However, as with all things, I would pray and wait to hear from God as to whether I was supposed to be attending that church.

ETA: The reason I say used to is now when I am at church I am far more engaged in and interacting with God. As a younger person I allowed distractions to divert my attention.

 

[Guitarhero]

You know, I happen to have several friends out there at Trinity School for Ministry. One of them is biracial and writes and speaks about racial reconciliation within the church. She has complained that people are very, hmm...(non-progressive, naive, complacent?)...not sure the right word. But yes, certain places have more problems than others.

Do you ever feel uncomfortable yourself in these contexts?

That's why I initiated the post, I wanna slap the hell out of some people IN THE CHURCH! Some of them are ridiculous. Thing is, it's not an issue of finding some Indian or Black church...there are no Creek Churches out here as far as I know. Possibly a Native American Church but it presents some problems for me with ceremonies considered sacraments etc. I wouldn't be able to participate. I don't desire to leave the catholic church at all. But I do intend upon writing a letter explaining the situation in this diocese. White folx is funny (told to me by a fellow and WHITE catholic lolol).

 

[Guitarhero]

I have and currently do attend a church made of more then one ethnic group. Sometimes AAs have been the majority and at some other churches I belonged to they were not. Yes, I have experienced some before. It used to bother me far more than it does now a days. Especially when the kids were little. Now, it is no different than having one of those types of experiences outside of the church. Now I fully understand the best place for a person in need of medical intervention is a hospital. Likewise, the best place for those in desperate spiritual need is the church. I think I would likely have some sort of feelings if this attitude of separation was reflected from the top. However, as with all things, I would pray and wait to hear from God as to whether I was supposed to be attending that church.

ETA: The reason I say used to is now when I am at church I am far more engaged in and interacting with God. As a younger person I allowed distractions to divert my attention.

It's a lot easier for protestants. You don't necessarily have to go through the same steps we do. As for attending church, I'm baptised and confirmed and wish to remain in full communion with G-d so I attend obligatory mass. It's not about spiritual need and whatnot...although I know what you are saying....it is about our edification, so I agree...however, it's not a choice but an obligation. As for finding another parish...it would be the same unless I worshiped with the Lebanese...but that's miles from here. My kids attend the parish school in our area where we are members. It's so much more involved. But the climate of this freaking town... Sigh...sigh....sigh! Not everyone is like this but it occurs enough to make us all uncomfortable.

 

[Guitarhero]

And the comments keep coming in...mentioning "violence and hatred" at the mere suggestion of racism in the church - that christians are allowed to be fallible human beings and that we all sin. Of course we do! Does that make it any better or right? The world has more common sense that the body of Christ when it comes to making laws to stop discriminatory behavior. How messed up is that? It's not about anybody's right to worship freely, it's about letting white folx off the hook for their sheer arrogance and stupidity. Why don't those who are still trying to pat themselves on the back on that forum think about the horrible sins of this CATHOLIC church against many peoples, particularly Indians and Africans...on this very land? Have they read history? Have they lived through any of it? Only enough to deny it's true. Why I keep on treating others as though they are human beings, trusting them and believing they are on even ground, I just dunno...maybe I'm trying to be like Christ...with all of my failings getting in the way. SIGH.... Some people will live in a racist vacuum their entire lives only to find out in the end that they have WASTED an entire life being stupid for no reason...but that they will pay for it as any criminal pays for his crimes.

 

[Guitarhero]

So, I found a very nice study/response on this issue. Hopefully, this is helpful for those out there who are experiencing such and have no recourse or whose friends and family are experiencing such and are feeling helpless:

http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/racism.pdf

 

[Prudent1]

@Guitarhero,
I think your idea to write the letter to your leader is an excellent place to start. I would go from there based on what the response of leadership is. I hope things turn out ok for you and the kids. Remember, the wheat grows along with the tares. It doesn't make it right or excusable but it is what it iserplexed.