Spinoff: Falling Down in the Spirit

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I have asked about this several times with no responses. I don't wish to hijack FoxxyScholar's thread about the ridiculous lady suing a church because she fell and hit her head. But what is the significance of "falling down" or "falling out in the spirit?" Can somebody please explain this to me? Where did it get it's origins (for believers and those to whom this occurs) in tradition and scripture and are there non-American occurrences of this? Is this mostly a Black culture type of thing? Is this likened to experiencing apparitions or supernatural events in other sects? Does this edify believers? How do you feel or what occurs in your body? Moreover, what is it's purpose and how does this change your life afterwards?

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Great question!

I used to think it was being "caught up in the Spirit." And the harder you fell the more spiritual you are just kidding. Then I realized would the Spirit throw you to the ground? Do these people fall out at home in fits of the Spirit catching or do they just do it here?

In the bible I see prayer, writing, lifting hands, bowing, kneeling, singing, speaking in tongues, and joyously dancing as acts of worship to God but I dont recall people passing out.

Then I came across some scripture that stop me from doing 'religious' stuff in public:

Matthew 6: 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Now it doesnt address passing out but I believe the message is dont show out for people to see. Now during worship I'll pray, cry, clap, lift my hands, but I keep my "crazy" praise between me and God in the comfort of my bedroom.

I have asked about this several times with no responses. I don't wish to hijack FoxxyScholar's thread about the ridiculous lady suing a church because she fell and hit her head. But what is the significance of "falling down" or "falling out in the spirit?" Can somebody please explain this to me? Where did it get it's origins (for believers and those to whom this occurs) in tradition and scripture and are there non-American occurrences of this? Is this mostly a Black culture type of thing? Is this likened to experiencing apparitions or supernatural events in other sects? Does this edify believers? How do you feel or what occurs in your body? Moreover, what is it's purpose and how does this change your life afterwards?

 

[inthepink]

Good question - I've always wondered the same. I just never feel comfortable in churches where this occurs.

 

[divya]

Good discussion. My belief is that the falling out in the spirit that we see in many churches today is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 gives us the fruit – which includes temperance (self-control). Whenever our actions fall outside of these in any way, it is not the Holy Spirit, and we must pray to be lead back in line with the Lord. This falling out occurs all over the world, as it has found its way into the churches via different pathways. In the case of many people of West/Central African descent, it resembles the spirit possession in certain indigenous religions. It may also simply be nothing more than an act or show for some. However, since temperance (self-control) is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, the lack of temperance is not of God.

 

[alexstin]

Good discussion. My belief is that the falling out in the spirit that we see in many churches today is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 gives us the fruit – which includes temperance (self-control). Whenever our actions fall outside of these in any way, it is not the Holy Spirit, and we must pray to be lead back in line with the Lord. It may also simply be nothing more than an act or show for some. However, since temperance (self-control) is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, the lack of temperance is not of God.

Yeah, I don't believe that God makes us lose all control. I also hate, hate, hate(did I mention I hate it) when Pastors try to push you down cause you didn't fall down on your own. I wonder how many ppl would fall down under the power of Holy Spirit if there was no one behind them to catch them.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Great question!

I used to think it was being "caught up in the Spirit." And the harder you fell the more spiritual you are just kidding. Then I realized would the Spirit throw you to the ground? Do these people fall out at home in fits of the Spirit catching or do they just do it here?



Matthew 6: 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

I always thought that meant not to give charity to brag about it. Do it in private or anonymously and move on lol. But "caught up in the spirit?" I'm not comprehending the terminology. Is this like a visitation by a saint or something? It's not being considered a baptizing, right? I'm not sure if previous discussions regarding baptism of the spirit was touching upon the same. I've never gotten a satisfactory answer (according to my comprehension).

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Yeah, I don't believe that God makes us lose all control. I also hate, hate, hate(did I mention I hate it) when Pastors try to push you down cause you didn't fall down on your own. I wonder how many ppl would fall down under the power of Holy Spirit if there was no one behind them to catch them.

Apparently that lady did....

Thats so true. This happened at my church once. I was praying and crying kinda loud and they forced me to lay on the ground. I was doing my own thing and they came and mess with my praising. They took me out of the service and did some weird ritual over me.

When it was done, I made a complaint against those women. Im sure they meant well but it was weird and forceful. I was told they arent supposed to be like that. I love my church but these women were trippin it made me so mad.

This is why I crazy praise only at home now. People see you get a little excited and want to get in on the excitement.

 

[blazingthru]

I have asked about this several times with no responses. I don't wish to hijack FoxxyScholar's thread about the ridiculous lady suing a church because she fell and hit her head. But what is the significance of "falling down" or "falling out in the spirit?" Can somebody please explain this to me? Where did it get it's origins (for believers and those to whom this occurs) in tradition and scripture and are there non-American occurrences of this? Is this mostly a Black culture type of thing? Is this likened to experiencing apparitions or supernatural events in other sects? Does this edify believers? How do you feel or what occurs in your body? Moreover, what is it's purpose and how does this change your life afterwards?

I searched the scriptures years ago for this same thing and never found anything. I like and agree with prettyface. Matthew 6: 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. Although I do not agree that anyone gets the spirit and jumps up and down out of their clothes in service. I do believe you can celebrate and honor God. David danced to the lord with all his might, he was not naked he had a lion cloth on. But he danced in rejoicing and there was music
David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might, 15 while he and the entire house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouts and the sound of trumpets. I am sure he wasn't falling all over the place hitting stuff and hurting other people. I am sure it wasn't embarassing. ( accept to his wife, but thats another story) I have never saw someone do this and I was not embarassed. its always woman that I see do it and they always fall out of their clothes, wigs, shoes and so forth. I have aways felt uncomfortable

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I always thought that meant not to give charity to brag about it. Do it in private or anonymously and move on lol. But "caught up in the spirit?" I'm not comprehending the terminology. Is this like a visitation by a saint or something?

That particular post was in context of giving to the needy (do it in private). Like the rest of my post said, its not regarding praise but you can learn a deeper lesson that you shouldnt show out for men.

 

[mango387]

NOW THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL AT ALL, SO THROW STONES AT ME NOT THE BIBLE OR THE CHURCH!!!

I am saved (no questions about it), and I have had the fortune of witnessing several praise/worship styles. Moreover, I was a history major and spent a lot of time studying religious experiences in the African diaspora. It SEEMS to me that wherever enslaved people were dropped off they KEPT some portions of the "African" way of celebrating God. (NB-I KNOW that not all Africans celebrate/worship God/gods in the same way). I was in a class where we were studying Candomble in Brazil. My prof showed the practitioners in a "trance" of sorts, and I had to admit that it reminded me of some of the holiness/"crunk" Baptist churches that I had been to in Alabama.

I say all of that to say that I have heard people talk about black Americans (especially traditional churchfolks) as if they are peculiar in the way that they celebrate God. Now, we don't have orishas or anything like that (we're not truly practicing a syncretic religion), but we do seem to "go hard" like other people of the diaspora. (I will admit that some people who say they are in the Spirit in church are a bit questionable).

The next thing one would probably ask then is "Is that God then or culture?"

There does seem to be precedence for "hard" praise/worship in the Old Testament. One woman even laughed at David for going too hard, and she ended up being punished for it. I'll come back with the scriptural reference for this.

ETA: 2 Samuel 6 (Another poster referred to this same passage of scripture, but David did not "fall out in the Spirit.")

 

[blazingthru]

yes 2 samuel 2 : 20 that was his wife michal,
20 When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, "How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, disrobing in the sight of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!"

21 David said to Michal, "It was before the LORD, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD's people Israel—I will celebrate before the LORD. 22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor."

23 And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

But it was a somewhat sad for her. See David was gone for 10 years and she remarried and probably loved this second husband but was forced to return to David whom by then she hated.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

yes 2 samuel 2 : 20 that was his wife michal,
20 When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, "How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, disrobing in the sight of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!"

21 David said to Michal, "It was before the LORD, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD's people Israel—I will celebrate before the LORD. 22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor."

23 And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

But it was a somewhat sad for her. See David was gone for 10 years and she remarried and probably loved this second husband but was forced to return to David whom by then she hated.

The difference I see in this instance is that, albeit having slave girls, David was alone, in the privacy of his home, not in the holy temple.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

They took me out of the service and did some weird ritual over me.

Like what? Is there an emoticon for fear?

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I think you make a point. Then I ask myself....

The bible was written within a 'culture' setting so the bible was influenced somewhat by that particular culture.Is God pleased with our different 'cultural' not necessarily biblical ways of praise??????



With all the different ways worshiping God has evolved, is it a bad thing to praise God whoever you feel compelled (within reason)?

In all of our ways of thinking about what people do, its important to not knock someone praise and worship however. Man looks at the outside but God looks at the heart. Jesus rebukes his disciplines many times for their thoughts and treatment of others that they didnt feel was 'appropriate'.

NOW THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL AT ALL, SO THROW STONES AT ME NOT THE BIBLE OR THE CHURCH!!!

I am saved (no questions about it), and I have had the fortune of witnessing several praise/worship styles. Moreover, I was a history major and spent a lot of time studying religious experiences in the African diaspora. It SEEMS to me that wherever enslaved people were dropped off they KEPT some portions of the "African" way of celebrating God. (NB-I KNOW that not all Africans celebrate/worship God/gods in the same way). I was in a class where we were studying Candomble in Brazil. My prof showed the practitioners in a "trance" of sorts, and I had to admit that it reminded me of some of the holiness/"crunk" Baptist churches that I had been to in Alabama.

I say all of that to say that I have heard people talk about black Americans (especially traditional churchfolks) as if they are peculiar in the way that they celebrate God. Now, we don't have orishas or anything like that (we're not truly practicing a syncretic religion), but we do seem to "go hard" like other people of the diaspora. (I will admit that some people who say they are in the Spirit in church are a bit questionable).

The next thing one would probably ask then is "Is that God then or culture?"

There does seem to be precedence for "hard" praise/worship in the Old Testament. One woman even laughed at David for going too hard, and she ended up being punished for it. I'll come back with the scriptural reference for this.

ETA: 2 Samuel 6 (Another poster referred to this same passage of scripture, but David did not "fall out in the Spirit.")

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Like what? Is there an emoticon for fear?

I am probably exagerrating a little with the 'ritual' word but they took me in a room laid me down, started praying really hard and I think there was like olive oil in the mix somewhere. It was intimidating. If I was a new member, I would have been freaked out and never come back. Ive been a member for years and I knew what was up. These are the 'holy' ones that be itching to rebuke some demons. I had to call them out.

 

[divya]

I believe the story of David dancing deserves further examination.


2 Samuel 2:14 -15 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.

The parallel of these verses is in 1 Chronicles...

1 Chronicles 15:27-28 And David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, and all the Levites that bare the ark, and the singers, and Chenaniah the master of the song with the singers: David also had upon him an ephod of linen. Thus all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the LORD with shouting, and with sound of the cornet, and with trumpets, and with cymbals, making a noise with psalteries and harps.

The Bible clearly states that Dived was clothed, not naked. And the chapters indicated that he was not in the temple but out in the city. So then we wonder, why does his way then make this comment to him?

2 Samuel 6:20 -21 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD.

Since David had on clothes as the other verses stated, why would she say that? Now if we remember, David was a King. But in this case, he was wearing a linen ephod, clothing that alone was common to a priest in a temple rather than to a King of Israel. That why she made sure to mention his status as King. When we look at the Hebrew translation of "uncovereth" here - the word is galah.

Galah can mean many things. It can mean to "denude, reveal, appear, bewray, bring (carry, go, lead), depart, disclose, discover, plainly, publish, remove, tell, uncover."

In her eyes, he was "appearing" like a commoner and behaving like one. He was out of or stripped of his normal kingly attire. She felt his behavior and dress was beneath his status as King. That's why he said, that the Lord chose him and appointed him ruler over the people. For that reason, he said will play before the Lord...praise his God. He responded humbly, not full of himself as King.

Here's more info:
http://www.doesgodexist.org/JulAug06/DancingNakedorUnderstandingBadly.html

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I am probably exagerrating a little with the 'ritual' word but they took me in a room laid me down, started praying really hard and I think there was like olive oil in the mix somewhere. It was intimidating. If I was a new member, I would have been freaked out and never come back. Ive been a member for years and I knew what was up. These are the 'holy' ones that be itching to rebuke some demons. I had to call them out.

Okay, that makes me cringe with discomfort. I just wonder what people feel, how they comprehend this, and why they do it? Even annointing someone as if to do away with a possession or something...is truly scary. I'm not saying they are unbiblical...but it's awfully close to vodun IMHO. And I do know of the various syncretistic practices of christianity in the Americas. This is probably why I am so suspect of everything...past experience with such folks. It just didn't seem right, you know? I'd still like to know about those who have a holy experience and what their experience actually was. Were they in a different plane, heavenly sense, um...just what? How does one get to that point of crying uncontrollably while praying? There must be some kind of sensation, right? That's what I do not comprehend...the process of it (the real holy one).

 

[divya]

I am probably exagerrating a little with the 'ritual' word but they took me in a room laid me down, started praying really hard and I think there was like olive oil in the mix somewhere. It was intimidating. If I was a new member, I would have been freaked out and never come back. Ive been a member for years and I knew what was up. These are the 'holy' ones that be itching to rebuke some demons. I had to call them out.

You poor thing! Why would they force you to lay on the ground if they thought you were possessed? That's so weird.

 

[inthepink]

With all the different ways worshiping God has evolved, is it a bad thing to praise God whoever you feel compelled (within reason)?

In all of our ways of thinking about what people do, its important to not knock someone praise and worship however. Man looks at the outside but God looks at the heart. Jesus rebukes his disciplines many times for their thoughts and treatment of others that they didnt feel was 'appropriate'.

Good point! My mother attends a church where they "get the holy spirit" and I have NEVER felt comfortable with it and as soon as I was 18, I stopped attending church with her. She still attends a church like that but I choose not to (I'm horrible in that I have no desire to even visit as her guest. erplexed). However, if this is what my mom desires in a church, then good for her. I'm not going to knock it...I just just don't want to be in the presence of it. erplexed

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Okay, that makes me cringe with discomfort. I just wonder what people feel, how they comprehend this, and why they do it? Even annointing someone as if to do away with a possession or something...is truly scary. I'm not saying they are unbiblical...but it's awfully close to vodun IMHO. And I do know of the various syncretistic practices of christianity in the Americas. This is probably why I am so suspect of everything...past experience with such folks. It just didn't seem right, you know? I'd still like to know about those who have a holy experience and what their experience actually was. Were they in a different plane, heavenly sense, um...just what? How does one get to that point of crying uncontrollably while praying? There must be some kind of sensation, right? That's what I do not comprehend...the process of it (the real holy one).

I think the crying uncontrollable comes from issues in that persons life. I was having ISSUES. I just was crying and I couldnt stop. Well, until they started messing with me... But they're may be other ways I dont know.

And yeah they didnt do anything 'unbiblical' technically but it was scary. And if you didnt know better, you're never come back to the church or any church if youre an unbeliever.

You poor thing! Why would they force you to lay on the ground if they thought you were possessed? That's so weird.

Yeah, I wasnt feeling it. I made them go get my mom when I was done. I told my mommy. She was like yeah you should talk to someone about that.

Good point! My mother attends a church where they "get the holy spirit" and I have NEVER felt comfortable with it and as soon as I was 18, I stopped attending church with her. She still attends a church like that but I choose not to (I'm horrible in that I have no desire to even visit as her guest. erplexed). However, if this is what my mom desires in a church, then good for her. I'm not going to knock it...I just just don't want to be in the presence of it. erplexed

Totally understandable. If correction isnt extended in love, it will often times but rejected. No Pharisees need apply!

 

[PaperClip]

I have asked about this several times with no responses. I don't wish to hijack FoxxyScholar's thread about the ridiculous lady suing a church because she fell and hit her head. But what is the significance of "falling down" or "falling out in the spirit?" Can somebody please explain this to me? Where did it get it's origins (for believers and those to whom this occurs) in tradition and scripture and are there non-American occurrences of this? Is this mostly a Black culture type of thing? Is this likened to experiencing apparitions or supernatural events in other sects? Does this edify believers? How do you feel or what occurs in your body? Moreover, what is it's purpose and how does this change your life afterwards?

well, I can only speak for me:

I have felt the power of the Lord Jesus Christ in such a tangible way that I was unable to stand. This has happened in church in the worship service, when I got prayed for, and this has happened to me in the privacy of my own home in prayer and worship where there was NO ONE ELSE THERE BUT ME (and GOD).

Consistently, it has felt one of two ways: this undescribable intense presence from the inside of me going out. I just begin to brace myself and kneel or lift my hands. Other times, it is a relieving feeling, the absence of pressure is the only way I can describe it.

I mean NO HARM by this so please do not take offense (in general): but I personally have no curiosity as to what other religious traditions do. I rarely inquire as to why Muslims do this or Hindus do that. I do inquire about Judaism because of obvious reasons but overall, I am fully persuaded of whom the Lord Jesus Christ and there's still so much more than I need and want to know more about Him than any other so-called deity that ever existed.

ETA: I support healthy, sincere inquiry of (my) faith and spirituality and religion.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

well, I can only speak for me:

I have felt the power of the Lord Jesus Christ in such a tangible way that I was unable to stand. This has happened in church in the worship service, when I got prayed for, and this has happened to me in the privacy of my own home in prayer and worship where there was NO ONE ELSE THERE BUT ME (and GOD).

Consistently, it has felt one of two ways: this undescribable intense presence from the inside of me going out. I just begin to brace myself and kneel or lift my hands. Other times, it is a relieving feeling, the absence of pressure is the only way I can describe it.

I mean NO HARM by this so please do not take offense (in general): but I personally have no curiosity as to what other religious traditions do. I rarely inquire as to why Muslims do this or Hindus do that. I do inquire about Judaism because of obvious reasons but overall, I am fully persuaded of whom the Lord Jesus Christ and there's still so much more than I need and want to know more about Him than any other so-called deity that ever existed.

ETA: I support healthy, sincere inquiry of (my) faith and spirituality and religion.

Absolutely no offense taken. When I said sect, I meant other denominations of christianity. I'm glad you answered my question according to what you experienced. I've been wondering for a long time. It's finally "tangible." Thank you.

 

[hurricane]

When you are under the power of the Holy Spirit, I believe that it would not allow you to hurt yourself or anyone else around you. I have seen people run into things and fall down get back up and run again. One lady kicked the front of the chair in front of her with both feet and flung her arms out and hit the people next too her. NO NO.

I sometimes questions things as we all should so we won't be decieved.

 

[divya]

When you are under the power of the Holy Spirit, I believe that it would not allow you to hurt yourself or anyone else around you. I have seen people run into things and fall down get back up and run again. One lady kicked the front of the chair in front of her with both feet and flung her arms out and hit the people next too her. NO NO.

I sometimes questions things as we all should so we won't be decieved.

Wow...what did you do the during this time? Were you too shocked to move? Did you leave?

 

[hurricane]

Wow...what did you do the during this time? Were you too shocked to move? Did you leave?

______________________________________________________________

I did not leave because this was my church. I thought to myself I'm glad that she didn't sucker punch me. . I ignored the situation the bible says that He will separate the wheat from the tares. Everyone that comes to church or cries Lord, Lord is not and will not be saved.

 

[divya]

______________________________________________________________

I did not leave because this was my church. I thought to myself I'm glad that she didn't sucker punch me. . I ignored the situation the bible says that He will separate the wheat from the tares. Everyone that comes to church or cries Lord, Lord is not and will not be saved.

Amen. I have to give it to you because I would have took off out the door! But what you are saying is the truth. He will do the separating.

 

[Ramya]

I witnessed this happen at the first church I attended in Birmingham. It was... interesting. They knocked all of the musicians out and a little boy and his father. It was crazy but the spirit of God was thick in there. There were some other things there that had me... unsettled though. This does not happen at my current church and it has never been explained to me. erplexed

I've never experienced it quite like that. I'm always lying down when I'm in the spirit.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I witnessed this happen at the first church I attended in Birmingham. It was... interesting. They knocked all of the musicians out and a little boy and his father. It was crazy but the spirit of God was thick in there. There were some other things there that had me... unsettled though. This does not happen at my current church and it has never been explained to me. erplexed

I've never experienced it quite like that. I'm always lying down when I'm in the spirit.

I probably should have reworded it "in the spirit" period. So, what do you feel when you are in the spirit? I've got one description, looking for more.

 

[Ramya]

[/b]


I probably should have reworded it "in the spirit" period. So, what do you feel when you are in the spirit? I've got one description, looking for more.

I am absent from my body. I know what it sounds like... but God speaks to me through visions audibly and/or through images. I go into a 'sleep state' and 'my spirit comes out from my body.' It just feels like a daydream I suppose... like I'm watching myself in 2 different places.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I am absent from my body. I know what it sounds like... but God speaks to me through visions audibly and/or through images. I go into a 'sleep state' and 'my spirit comes out from my body.' It just feels like a daydream I suppose... like I'm watching myself in 2 different places.

That's intense! It sounds absolutely similar to those who experience visitations (talking about christian sects).